The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Yes but what he didn't even think about is the damage it will also do to Bruce and Gordon now if and when what Harvey was really like comes out. Btw we lied and abused public office, Harvey was a physcotic cop killer. Where as if they just told the truth, gotham may have been in a bad mood for a few months but Joker would still be in custody, Maroni would still be dead so their men going free wouldn't much matter, and their reps wouldn't be at stake bigtime. The biggest threat there is to Gordon's future as commish and ability to aid Batman.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I can see where you get that, but all the people Dent locked up would be back on the streets. Distilling everything Batman/Dent/Gordon worked for would be gone.

"If anybody saw this, everything would be undone."

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Again though the only people Dent locked up were the low level no ones, everyone else made bail. Dent and Joker killed all the mob bosses. It looks like the mob isn't an issue anymore in TDKR. The low level guys would have no work and have to move on. Joker would also still be locked up as Dent had nothing to do with his ultimate arrest.

If anything the fact that Batman was the one who apprehended Joker and the way he interfered with Swat seems a far more likely canidate as an issue for Joker's attorney's to raise now that he is officially a vigilante wanted by the law. He wasn't just cuffed, Joker was beaten, pummled, and thrown from a building and Batman can't exactly show up to testify against him.

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If this were a 12 part mini series, I'd say perhaps some of those issues really need to be tightened up a bit

But in the confines of a 3 part 2 and bit hour each trilogy, I think the story holds up just fine for me

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Same for me, you could pick apart Citizen Cane and you'd find problems with the story.

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While I like TDK's ending, there's no doubt that it's pretty damn contrived. When you're seeing the film for the first time, it makes perfect sense but now, I don't know. Taking on the killings for the sake of Gotham doesn't really fly. I'm sure storytelling wise there were probably better directions to take than having what they ultimately came up with.

They sort of wrote themselves up against the wall. It'll be interesting how it plays out in this new film and if any glaring plot holes or problems with the story occur because of it. I mean lets face it, that lie, the whole, "Batman killed all these people" really shouldn't have worked. Even before TDKR I figured that would be the premise, Gotham isn't buying it. Odd that so far, they have and for 8 years no less. It wasn't exactly an air tight plan, just an odd, shocking, spur of the moment decision.

Though, Nolan sort of alludes to the fact that TDKR is purely a "what if" story. He's gone on in saying that TDKR is "what if Gordon and Batman's plan had actually worked". I'm sure at it's conception TDKR drafts were off the wall, perhaps even an alternate premise where things haven't worked out.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

intothevoid said:

If this were a 12 part mini series, I'd say perhaps some of those issues really need to be tightened up a bit

But in the confines of a 3 part 2 and bit hour each trilogy, I think the story holds up just fine for me

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Yes so far this is the best movie version of Batman never the less. I guess I feel the largest problem which connects alot of it, is it feels like it's all ending prematurely and getting loose as you say, because Heath Ledger died. Were he still alive and TDK had the same level of success I have to imagine Nolan would be rushing headfirst into more of these stories, but in that wake, I feel certain things are getting rushed and changed to take us somewhere in Bruce's story too early on. If I'm not mistaken the ending of TDK was changed after he died is that not correct? I think he really got talked into this movie and doesn't have the same passion for it he did previously.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

DiFabio said:

While I like TDK's ending, there's no doubt that it's pretty damn contrived. When you're seeing the film for the first time, it makes perfect sense but now, I don't know. Taking on the killings for the sake of Gotham doesn't really fly. I'm sure storytelling wise there were probably better directions to take than having what they ultimately came up with.

They sort of wrote themselves up against the wall. It'll be interesting how it plays out in this new film and if any glaring plot holes or problems with the story occur because of it. I mean lets face it, that lie, the whole, "Batman killed all these people" really shouldn't have worked. Even before TDKR I figured that would be the premise, Gotham isn't buying it. Odd that so far, they have and for 8 years no less. It wasn't exactly an air tight plan, just an odd, shocking, spur of the moment decision.

Though, Nolan sort of alludes to the fact that TDKR is purely a "what if" story. He's gone on in saying that TDKR is "what if Gordon and Batman's plan had actually worked". I'm sure at it's conception TDKR drafts were off the wall, perhaps even an alternate premise where things haven't worked out.

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I also think that Bane, holding up the picture of Dent might be him telling Gotham the truth, turning Gordon into a fugitive and Gotham rising against the rich such as people like Dent and Wayne. It will be interesting to see.

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I don't believe the ending of TDK was changed, but certainly, whatever loose plans they had for the third went out the window

And yeah Bane is absolutely going to expose the lie about Harvey as part of his effort to dismantle Gotham from within

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But I could have sworn originally Harvey was going to live? Didn't Aaron himself believe he would genuinely have a role in the 3rd before Heath passed?

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Technically he does have a role in TDKR.

Think about this... if they changed the ending after Heath's death (which they didn't) wouldn't it make more sense to kill off the Joker and let Two-Face live?

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Not at all, I have to imagine thats the exact opposite of something Nolan would do in order to honor his memory. He was so torn up about it he wasn't going to do a 3rd at all, if anything I think he thought how can we leave this sort of open if I change my mind.

I guess you can just chalk it upto bad decision making in the 30 seconds Bruce and Gordon had between regaining consciousness and running from Swat. Don't make important decisions if you may have a concussion is the lesson I take away from it.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

DiFabio said:

When you're seeing the film for the first time, it makes perfect sense but now, I don't know. Taking on the killings for the sake of Gotham doesn't really fly.

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It didn't the first time either. Right along with the stilted dialogue that followed as an excuse.

But the Joker was rad in that movie so who cares.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

That should be an excuse for everything.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Wor-Gar said:

It didn't the first time either. Right along with the stilted dialogue that followed as an excuse.

But the Joker was rad in that movie so who cares.

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Gordon's little monologue about a "silent guardian" does sort of pad the events that just happened and makes the audience buy into an otherwise outrageous ending.

I know on repeat viewings I started to question why Gordon would actually be saying such things to his kid. Who talks like that? Gordon basically just breaks the fourth wall and is talking directly to the audience. I sort of expect Jimmy Jr. to look up at him and say, "whatchoo talkin' bout Jim".

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Gordon was trying to convince himself, he just used his kid as an outlet to do so. Thought that was pretty obvious.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

ZaCHw117 said:

Thought that was pretty obvious.

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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Wor-Gar said:

It didn't the first time either. Right along with the stilted dialogue that followed as an excuse.

But the Joker was rad in that movie so who cares.

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DiFabio said:

Gordon's little monologue about a "silent guardian" does sort of pad the events that just happened and makes the audience buy into an otherwise outrageous ending.

I know on repeat viewings I started to question why Gordon would actually be saying such things to his kid. Who talks like that? Gordon basically just breaks the fourth wall and is talking directly to the audience. I sort of expect Jimmy Jr. to look up at him and say, "whatchoo talkin' bout Jim".

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I use Gordon's exact speech on my son when i'm describing intothevoid to him.

Re: The Dark Knight Rises