Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Deckard said:

Yea that's called a hypothetical. Do they not have those where you're from? You were saying that Batman beating up villains and the cops arresting them is illegal.

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Then don't complain about it being used on you, you are aware that that wasn't what I was arguing.

I'm telling you, you are wrong, and I'm trying to explain why. The hypothetical could apply to Scarecrow.

Scarecrow is a wanted fugitive. The police already want to arrest him again right? So you're telling me that when they find him tied up in the parking garage in TDK they can't arrest him because it was Batman that knocked him out. That's exactly what your quote above is implying.

My hypothetical real world comparison was that if someone killed a bunch of kids, it doesn't matter that a civilian assaults them, that doesn't clear them of murder charges.

How in the hell do you not get that?

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You're deviating the argument into a new topic which I'm not arguing against, and you're not getting that.

I never said that the police couldn't arrest those criminals, they can, because they are wanted men.

I was arguing that the methods Batman uses to give those people to the police are illegal, that's all.

Also, the Dent act is not illegal, at all.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

jye4ever said:

Like Fabio said, it's all stupid crap, all of it.

Therefore just give us an awesome cbm.

TDKR is not awesome.

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I still have a lot of complaints of TDKR it's a very subpar movie all around compared to the previous 2, all I'm saying is that after Batfan pointed out the fact that Batman succeed in cleaning the streets, it makes a little more sense to me the fact that he quit.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I love how all of a sudden Bale's Batman is a *****, yet most of you complaining were *****ing about him not wanting to come back for this new film. batfan08 is right, it seems a lot of people are pissed because they did not get the movie they imagined. Bruce won after TDK. Gotham was a city at peace. In The Dark Knight Returns, Gotham is an utter shithole, and Bruce does nothing about it for years. So is that version a *****? This movie is an Elseworlds tale. If you want to watch a Batman fighting the never ending fight, the comics do that. Nolan stated from the beginning he was doing his own thing. Not one of you complains about Ras not being immortal or The Joker being a guy wearing facepaint. That's ok? But Bruce Wayne quitting when he is no longer needed is a violation of Batman code?

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

One could argue that Returns Batman is a ***** since he compromised with the government to go back into his cave despite the city still being a shithole.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

GasparZizou said:

Then don't complain about it being used on you, you are aware that that wasn't what I was arguing.



You're deviating the argument into a new topic which I'm not arguing against, and you're not getting that.

I never said that the police couldn't arrest those criminals, they can, because they are wanted men.

I was arguing that the methods Batman uses to give those people to the police are illegal, that's all.

Also, the Dent act is not illegal, at all.

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Yes, it of course it is. It's the same concept but relating to the real world instead of the Joker. He murders a ton of people, a civilain assaulting him doesn't forgive those crimes.

This is not and not even close to what I'm saying :

"You're saying if 800 guys killed a kid each and there's an actual law that allows you to arrest them you can't because?."

That has nothing to do with what the Dent Act or relates in any way to my defense of Batman beating up villains.

And I'm not changing the subject at all, that's what I've been talking about the entire time. The Dent act is absolutely illegal according to the U.S. constitution.

Darth Zangetsu said:

I love how all of a sudden Bale's Batman is a *****, yet most of you complaining were *****ing about him not wanting to come back for this new film. batfan08 is right, it seems a lot of people are pissed because they did not get the movie they imagined.

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BB and TDK are still great movies. I was indeed someone who complained that there was no need to end it all this early short of Nolan wanting out. And you're right, that caused almost all of us to not get the movie we had imagined. But on top of that we also got Nolan's worst movie, even by technical standards it's a train wreck. Maybe it's because of the one take only approach due to the IMAX cameras but there is a litany of technical errors way above his previous work.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Darth Zangetsu said:

Not one of you complains about Ras not being immortal

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Actually, I did complain about that one. . .one of my biggest complaints for all these films are the liberties Nolan took with the villains, in the pursuit of "realism." But, they're still great movies (the first two, anyway).

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Deckard said:

Yes, it of course it is. It's the same concept but relating to the real world instead of the Joker. He murders a ton of people, a civilain assaulting him doesn't forgive those crimes.

This is not and not even close to what I'm saying :

"You're saying if 800 guys killed a kid each and there's an actual law that allows you to arrest them you can't because?."

That has nothing to do with what the Dent Act or relates in any way to my defense of Batman beating up villains.

And I'm not changing the subject at all, that's what I've been talking about the entire time.




BB and TDK are still great movies. I was indeed someone who complained that there was no need to end it all this early short of Nolan wanting out. And you're right, that caused almost all of us to not get the movie we had imagined. But on top of that we also got Nolan's worst movie, even by technical standards it's a train wreck. Maybe it's because of the one take only approach due to the IMAX cameras but there is a litany of technical errors way above his previous work.

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I will agree with that. Most of his work is very crisp. TDKR has a lot of flaws that should not have made it into the final product. And as much as I like the film, I will not say it is Nolan's best work. It does seem like he ran out of things to say with the character after TDK. But i still enjoyed it on the whole.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Except that they're both elements of the same damn person. I don't see why one aspect needs to negate the other.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

DiFabio said:

I just like to pretend the last one didn't happen. It ends with Dark Knight for me.

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Same for me. I like the idea that there is a vague, and troubled future in place for Batman, and however it might get wrapped up, in my mind it doesn't end with a youngish Bruce sipping champagne in Italy.

Same goes for the Spider-Man films after part 2, and up until First Class, I felt that way about the X-Men movies as well.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

GasparZizou said:

Also, the Dent act is not illegal, at all.

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Gotham re-wrote federal law and stripped criminals of the right to a fair trial or parole. According to the constitution the only people who can do that is the Supreme Court and House/Senate after a bill is drafted and agreed upon/passed into law.

The Dent Act is a Hypothetical movie version of the real-life Bush Doctrine.

Our president illegally signed that bill into law using made up power post 9-11 to combat terrorism and it has remained in place since. It strips peoples of their rights and freedoms and states that under a condition (connection to terrorism) they can be held indefinatley.

The Dent Act is illegally signed into law based on a lie post a terrorist attack in Gotham. It strips peoples of their rights and freedoms and states that under a condition(connection to a criminal enterprise) they can be held indefinatley.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

jye4ever said:

Like Fabio said, it's all stupid crap, all of it.

Therefore just give us an awesome cbm.

TDKR is not awesome.

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TDKR was the worst Batman film I've ever had the displeasure of seeing . It doesn't exist to me.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Batman has thousands of innocents locked up in order to keep millions in Gotham safe.
Superman causes several thousand people to die to protect the world.

Steve Rogers needs to kick both their asses for that Alexander Pierce bull****.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

The problem I have with Bats calling it quits after the Dent Act, is that it only eliminates organized crime. Does that also mean there are no more rapes, murders or street crimes happening in Gotham City? If that's so, then Nolan went head-on into fairy tale territory with TDKR.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

DiFabio said:

I think TDKR Batman and MOS Superman are agents of Hydra personally.

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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

DiFabio said:

I don't care what's physically "plausible". Nothing Batman related is plausible. I care about story, characters and what is actually compelling. If I can be invested in a world that makes me believe it, even just slightly, then I'm interested. Rises BS with weird laws, Dent acts, robotic knee braces (that he doesn't even need anymore when he has it taken away from him) is just stupid. His characterization from Dark Knight to Rises completely devolved. Had they actually delved into Bruce's physical trauma, then maybe I'd get behind it. But no, one minute it's "you don't have any cartilage in your knees" to Batman rock climbing like a pro and kicking Bane through hard, glass doors.

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If you can't connect how those things tie to the story, then lets not debate that issue any further.

A retired Batman can work, as seen in Returns. You're bringing up the physical when that's only part of it. I look at how Returns handled the retirement vs. how Rises did, and it's apples and oranges.

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Yes, cause one is an unkillable cartoony character with an endless supply of deux ex machina, and the other one is a man with a body just as fragile as any other human being's.

You know that ridiculous clean energy thing that Bruce partnered up with Talia on was atleast 3 years in the making right?

One would think that after suffering through the devastating outcome of Dent becoming a homicidal madmen, Bruce would be a little bit more paranoid who he places his faith into. But nah, he completely trusts shady business women with thick foreign accents that say the same things that his old mentor (who also turned out to be a bad egg), would say word for word. He completely trusts a thief that defecates on his mother's memory by stealing his pearls (and car) and by almost getting him killed when she traps him. Then he trusts some dude that just comes up to him and says "I know who you are" and gives him ALL of his tools and assets.

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You seem to forget he actually shut down the project and cut Talia any access from it.

If Bruce didn't fake his death in Returns he'd be arrested or killed. It's all about the war on crime (which Returns Bruce doesn't give up). Plus, he ain't done. He's coming back to fight the good fight for another day. Is war on crime isn't over.

In Rises, Bruce isn't just lying about Batman (again mind you), but he's lying about himself. Batman just didn't die that day, so did Bruce. It's completely unnecessary to tell Fox or Catwoman that there's no autopilot when there is. It's only a cheap twist device to play for a hollow ending. If Bruce really cared about the city, he'd be helping restore it. Not turning his back on it by becoming a cafe jumping tourist. I guess giving all his gear and equipment to an inexperienced, wet behind the ears cop is enough for some people, but I'm sorry, that city is in the worst state it's been in in any of the films. Think of the economic and financial ruin it must be after something like that. The aftermath would be nothing but crime, especially with criminals still on the loose. Bruce just turned his back on all of that to fulfill a butler's dream.

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I'll give you that, I think he did clean the city, but left it with the criminals running around again, I could argue that the military was going to rebuild the city at that point...

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I wasn't that impressed by MoS when I first saw it but after reading the various opinions of it here, both for and against, I realize I was too forgiving and how much of an uneven mess the movie really is.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Deckard said:

Gotham re-wrote federal law and stripped criminals of the right to a fair trial or parole. According to the constitution the only people who can do that is the Supreme Court and House/Senate after a bill is drafted and agreed upon/passed into law.

The Dent Act is a Hypothetical movie version of the real-life Bush Doctrine.

Our president illegally signed that bill into law using made up power post 9-11 to combat terrorism and it has remained in place since. It strips peoples of their rights and freedoms and states that under a condition (connection to terrorism) they can be held indefinatley.

The Dent Act is illegally signed into law based on a lie post a terrorist attack in Gotham. It strips peoples of their rights and freedoms and states that under a condition(connection to a criminal enterprise) they can be held indefinatley.

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On one hand you have actually innocent people that could be charged with being terrorists, on the other you have actual criminals, with records and associated with major criminal organizations whom without the Dent act they'd be in the streets within days again, with parole or their bosses bailing them out.

It may have some similarities with the Bush doctrine, which in honesty haven't read it, nor I really have interest in doing so, but I see major differences as well.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

"MoS Superman caused deaths"... Nothing but a lie.
"Criminals are innocent people".... Fallacy.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Dr.Mirakle32 said:

The problem I have with Bats calling it quits after the Dent Act, is that it only eliminates organized crime. Does that also mean there are no more rapes, murders or street crimes happening in Gotham City? If that's so, then Nolan went head-on into fairy tale territory with TDKR.

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Well, what Batman cleansed the streets of Gotham of, was corruption and major criminal organizations, if there are any more isolated or minor crimes, it's nothing the police can't deal with.

Even if you imagine it as a perfect Utopia, isn't that the final goal of the superhero ideal?

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

DiFabio said:

I dunno, Rises Batman seemed pretty cartoony (and unkillable) when Talia stabbed him and he just shrugged it off afterwards. He even was able to run to the Bat to fly off and save everyone, not once looking like he was in pain.

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It's one stab, through a thick Kevlar armor vs a 60 year old man who's endured unspeakable beatings and all sorts of injuries it's ridiculous, and then gets shot (and stabbed by the joker) with nothing to protect him but fabric tights....

Only to give it to hand it over her afterwards, then let her be in charge of his company, then bedding her.

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C'mon, you know there's context to that.