Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

GasparZizou said:

The buildings Superman went through were empty, the point to that is that some people often say that Superman threw Zod through buildings killing a bunch of people, both of those claims are a lie.

The buildings destroyed by the world engine did have people, but villains kill people.

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Again, it was the imagery. The way it was filmed.

Perry scrambling for cover in the middle of the street as a building collapses is shot per shot from actual 9-11 footage of the tower collapsing and people scrambling out of the street into the alleys for cover. It was a very famous piece of footage at the time and they replayed it on the news about a thousand times. When Americans watched that scene, there was no way we couldn't be instantly reminded of a tragedy and there's nothing fun about that.

Once again, why Pacific Rim and Avengers didn't receive these complaints. The way they filmed the destruction was Hollywood, from a higher perspective, quick zoom shots of a building getting wrecked by the Leviathons with the focus then immediately shifted back to action rather than linger on the whole building coming down.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Jye the photoshop wiz.

I wanna see you do one of Lois blasting into orbit, sitting on top of one of those dyl-doe rocket ships.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

VintijDroidGutzz said:

Jye the photoshop wiz.

I wanna see you do one of Lois blasting into orbit, sitting on top of one of those dyl-doe rocket ships.

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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

jye4ever said:

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incoming cheesy porn flick

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

jye4ever said:

I don't mind movies utilizing imagery from real tragedies, their goal is to make us feel.

Destruction is destruction.

Movies have shown people dying from cancer, getting hit by a car, disease, gun violence etc.

One death is no more important than anothers.

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Well said. I don't see how MOS is any different than what the Japanese did in creating Godzilla for instance. I don't count the 9/11 imagery among the film's faults.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Khev said:

Well said. I don't see how MOS is any different than what the Japanese did in creating Godzilla for instance. I don't count the 9/11 imagery among the film's faults.

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The difference? Godzilla's a ****ing horror movie. You're supposed to feel uncomfortable and depressed since it strives to recreate the imagery associated with Hiroshima and Nagasaki only nine years prior. That's why the 1954 movie is the most tragic horror film I've ever seen. It still works. Why the hell would I want that same sense of dread watching a Superman movie?

That's what blows my mind. From content to cinematography, even WATCHMEN was more colorful and optimistic than MAN OF STEEL. At least there, Snyder had the good sense to be a slave to the already brilliant material. He's not the kind of director I trust with creative, original storytelling.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

jye4ever said:

I don't mind movies utilizing imagery from real tragedies, their goal is to make us feel.

Destruction is destruction.

Movies have shown people dying from cancer, getting hit by a car, disease, gun violence etc.

One death is no more important than anothers.

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There are a zillion movies that copied death and violence from real world events, and all movies are for entertainment purposes, even documentaries. My biggest issue with people criticizing MoS is they don't seem to get Superman and what it would be like if he really existed. And thats what Snyder set out to do, he said it a million times. The sheer power he has would reek havoc on this planet, and that was the point of it. And not to mention a villain from his same planet wanting to rebuild the Earth into Krypton. Using 9-11 inspiration, yah...it would be like that if those 2 aliens with their power were fighting in our skies.

There has been mass destruction in Superman comics since the beginning. Back in the 30s-40s, Superman himself destroyed a whole entire poor town so that it could be rebuilt better for people to live in. He just went over to it and destroyed for his own agenda on what he thought was right thing to do. But if you put that into the real world, was it really his call to do that? What about everyone who lived there and all their stuff in their homes? This is just one of many stories that I read from Golden Age that always stuck with me. And throughout Superman history, there is always the debate in Metropolis is the World better with or without him because of all the chaos and destruction he brings when fighting villains.

And then it all comes back to people holding onto the Reeve Superman too much. They only know his Superman but his Superman films are not the definitive Superman, they are just one series of stories from that particular time. Superman changes over time with every writer and artist over every decade.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

The destruction is the natural consequence of a villain who's a real threat, that level of destruction is not uncommon on some DC comics big events...

I'm guessing there's no sense of dread while seeing the destruction caused by the Chitauri or the Winter Soldier kicking a guy through a turbine so it gets dismembered to pieces.

See? You can't criticize aspects in MoS like the tone or the destruction without having double standards.

And it's silly to have characters like Superman and his foes and not accept the possibility of that level of destruction.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I'm guessing there's no sense of dread while seeing the destruction caused by the Chitauri or the Winter Soldier kicking a guy through a turbine so it gets dismembered to pieces.

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The difference is THE AVENGERS went out of its way to show its heroes trying to contain the destruction and protect civilians in the process. I will give credit to MOS since a single hero can only do so much; but the difference is that AVENGERS showed the aftermath of the destruction, the common person's perspective and implied an optimistic future. There was NONE OF THAT in the epilogue of MOS. Just everything back to normal, destruction of government property and some cheesy lines.

As for THE WINTER SOLDIER, you had a ruthless, intimidating villain in a well written, excellently directed movie. What's the argument?

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Dr.Mirakle32 said:

The difference is THE AVENGERS went out of its way to show its heroes trying to contain the destruction and protect civilians in the process. I will give credit to MOS since a single hero can only do so much; but the difference is that AVENGERS showed the aftermath of the destruction, the common person's perspective and implied an optimistic future. There was NONE OF THAT in the epilogue of MOS. Just everything back to normal, destruction of government property and some cheesy lines.

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Some of you clearly aren't reading the 9-11 complaints correctly. It's about the way it's filmed, not the level of destruction. Why did Pacific Rim and Avengers never get that complaint from critics? They filmed it in a more hollywood way. Not a shaky cam cell phone like vid at street level.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I must watch MOS again to see if I can discern why people defend it so.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

jye4ever said:

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There's something about this image.... Not sure what it is.... Can't put my thumb on it...

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Dr.Mirakle32 said:

The difference is THE AVENGERS went out of its way to show its heroes trying to contain the destruction and protect civilians in the process. I will give credit to MOS since a single hero can only do so much; but the difference is that AVENGERS showed the aftermath of the destruction, the common person's perspective and implied an optimistic future. There was NONE OF THAT in the epilogue of MOS. Just everything back to normal, destruction of government property and some cheesy lines.

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So you self refuted that point by pointing out that Superman was a single hero, let me add that the chitauri and Loki didn't have the power Zod had in his left arm, not to mention the world engine, handled by 6 heroes each with a specific task.... I've said it before, the Teen Titans could've dealt with the Chitauri.

I'll hold you on the last part since I expect that the consequences of the destruction will be addressed in this movie.

As for THE WINTER SOLDIER, you had a ruthless, intimidating villain in a well written, excellently directed movie. What's the argument?

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And Zod wasn't.....

Deckard said:

Some of you clearly aren't reading the 9-11 complaints correctly. It's about the way it's filmed, not the level of destruction. Why did Pacific Rim and Avengers never get that complaint from critics? They filmed it in a more hollywood way. Not a shaky cam cell phone like vid at street level.

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So, despite you KNOW people died in PR, Avengers and MoS, you're happy deluding yourself into denial just by the angle it was shot in....

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Congrats on still not getting it. It's hollywood vs real life.

When Marvin gets shot in the head in Pulp Fiction, it's comedic. He's not a real guy, just some poor schmuck. If they had framed it so that the way we saw him get show was from outside of the car on a nearby hill and were basically making it look similar to the Kennedy assassination, then it would put the memory of that event into your head. Why, when you're making a fun movie ultimately for kids, would you want to make people remember the largest terrorist attack that ever occured and it still the reason were at war today?

It has nothing to do with fictional characters who don't exist and everything to do with conjuring up a specific memory to play on our emotions in order to heighten a specific scene. The Avengers never needs to remind us about 9-11 in order to convey the desperate nature of the situation.

It's the same reason TDKR recieved a lot of complaints in that department. All I have to do is flick on the news to be reassured bad people are out there and kill a lot of innocents. I go see a Superhero movie to see the hero be a hero. At the end of MOS, Superman is a massive threat that nobody trusts.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Viking Spawn said:

There's something about this image.... Not sure what it is.... Can't put my thumb on it...

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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

No, I get it, hence why I paraphrased it.

Your argument fails on various points though... There were higher points of perspective in 9/11, people recording in their windows and rooftops, not just from the street, and the great great great great majority of people watching MoS only saw the 9/11 through TV, they weren't even there.... And the whole movie had a shaky cam, it wasn't that specific scene that got shot that way, it was the whole movie.

The whole reason why people remember 9/11 it's cause there are buildings falling, that's the only reason.... not the angle, not the shaky cam, the falling buildings.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Nope, buildings fall in Pacific Rim and Avengers, the Leviathon takes out an entire building when it crashed through it. Even in this, it's not all the destruction. It's, for example, that when Perry is running into a side alley, it is literally shot for shot one of the most famous pieces of footage that they played on the news about 1000 times.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Deckard said:

I go see a Superhero movie to see the hero be a hero. At the end of MOS, Superman is a massive threat that nobody trusts.

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He's also not special. Rather than initially just being exposed to Superman alone and being in awe of him and what he can do the people of earth only become aware of his existence at the same time that the rest of his race come destroying. He loses something there within the universe they've created here.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

And Zod wasn't.....

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You're telling me MOS had an airtight script adapted by a master storyteller? That's what I'm arguing. The script was all over the map, had a weak resolution, and was more focused on worldbuilding than characterization or internal logic. Keep your violence and 9/11 imagery as long as you commit to it and show its longterm effects; just don't cut to business as usual the Planet with no sense of time elapsing (they're still having basketball games after a literal apocalypse?)

That's why it doesn't work, for me, as a decent film. The fact that it is so dour and takes this weak screenplay so seriously makes it an unenjoyable mess for me; and believe me, I've seen it several times, trying to like it. That's how much I love the character. The fact is, if it went through a few more drafts and had a satisfying wrap up, the movie could have been as epic as the trailers made it out to be.

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Deckard said:

Nope, buildings fall in Pacific Rim and Avengers, the Leviathon takes out an entire building when it crashed through it. Even in this, it's not all the destruction. It's, for example, that when Perry is running into a side alley, it is literally shot for shot one of the most famous pieces of footage that they played on the news about 1000 times.

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I don't remember a single building falling in PR, and much less in Avengers....

I remember a Jaeger falling on it's back on a building and the building was able to support it.

I don't want to turn the discussion to that place, I just want to mention that the shot I remember the most of 9/11 was the buildings falling, shot from a window or a rooftop, on street level the only thing I remember is dust and smoke.

My point is that in Avengers there's a lot of shots at window or rooftop level.