Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

karamazov80 said:

No, I'm referring to this. From Spartan's post, it seems like Hawkeye never believed Cap was the terrorist, and had to deceive SHIELD:

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Yes, that's the final discovery, but before that you'd have this contrived sequence which is what I was originally saying was the issue:

as Steve Rogers would have found himself on the run from Clint Barton with a fight between the two

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What it was going to be, we were trying to complicate the relationship between Cap and his S.H.I.E.L.D agent friends. If Hawkeye got a call from S.H.I.E.L.D saying Captain America is a fugitive, would he listen to that call or not listen to that call?

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"Complicate" is right and it wasn't needed. It would be a cheap conveyance that has been done many times. Either the character knows all along or discovers along the way, both have been done. If it's the first case but the audience is led to believe otherwise, it's a very cheap shot as it's not believable for the character. If it's the other, dealing with the audience more honestly, it's still flies in the face of the character and feels like a rough spike in the movie. Both cases cause more issues with the script than simply skipping the character entirely.

That's why I said it depends on execution. We have no idea how they planned to make that whole subplot work itself out--i.e., what kind of conflict are they talking about, and why would Barton feel the need to deceive SHIELD instead of just taking Cap's side if he never doubted him. Regarding Khev's post, it could be Hawkeye didn't want to do what Fury/Widow did because he wanted to be able to spy on SHIELD from the inside, which would be a smart move if someone really wanted to find out what was going on and how to stop it. Again, for pacing purposes it might have been best left on the cutting room floor, but just about anything that would make Hawkeye seem less like a generic special ops guy would be good to me. Like Nam said earlier, at this point I don't think anyone would really care if he got offed in the opening scene of the next film (though he obviously won't), because as a character he's totally generic.

Maybe his character would be better off dying some heroic death, he just seems to be the character that they can't find a 'feeling' for except in short bursts.

I got my Blu-Ray a bit sooner than expected

Niltusk said:

Maybe his character would be better off dying some heroic death, he just seems to be the character that they can't find a 'feeling' for except in short bursts.

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Whedon suggested they were going to flesh his character out better in the new film, so hopefully that will actually happen.

The foreign titles are amusing

Nice, I'm sure mine won't land til next week.
So, do they not refer to him as Captain America in the movie?

Sure, developing him is a good idea if they plan to continue using him. I think the issue if a much larger one than this single character though. Movie rights for Marvel's biggest and most popular characters are in the hands of other studios, and they have really had to rely on B-squad characters to anchor these pictures. Sure, Thor, Iron Man and Captain America are cool, but they're not the A-listers that Spider-man, The Hulk and the X-Men are. But at the same time they're not the C and D listers like Black Widow and Hawkeye.

Anyway, as far as THIS movie goes, I could see one of two possibilities for the Hawkeye character. Either the studio would have made a fool of the character or the audience - neither of which would have been good. Besides, how many "gotchas!" can you have in one movie?

Spoiler:

Hydra is running SHIELD, Fury is alive, Winter Soldier is Bucky, Crossbones...

Ok, the count stands at 3 against and 3 for the Hawkeye scene.

You know what that means.

Pixelpiper said:

Sure, developing him is a good idea if they plan to continue using him. I think the issue if a much larger one than this single character though. Movie rights for Marvel's biggest and most popular characters are in the hands of other studios, and they have really had to rely on B-squad characters to anchor these pictures. Sure, Thor, Iron Man and Captain America are cool, but they're not the A-listers that Spider-man, The Hulk and the X-Men are. But at the same time they're not the C and D listers like Black Widow and Hawkeye.

Anyway, as far as THIS movie goes, I could see one of two possibilities for the Hawkeye character. Either the studio would have made a fool of the character or the audience - neither of which would have been good. Besides, how many "gotchas!" can you have in one movie?

Spoiler:

Hydra is running SHIELD, Fury is alive, Winter Soldier is Bucky, Crossbones...

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Marvel took their D list GOTG and spat on the face of Spiderman this year.

jye4ever said:

Marvel took their D list GOTG and spat on the face of Spiderman this year.

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Kudos to them for it too! I'd love to see some lesser known characters brought into the limelight and I'm really looking forward to seeing GoTG. I've already stated that I think Sony and Fox are completely wasting Marvel's IP with their movies (don't like any of them). Speaking of rather unknown characters, I'd love to see Longshot as I think that would make for a really cool character on film with great story-arc potential.

jye4ever said:

Marvel took their D list GOTG and spat on the face of Spiderman this year.

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Remember when the ASM/X-Men fanboys were claiming there's no way it would even earn comparable to the other MCU staples?

thenammagazine said:

Remember when the ASM/X-Men fanboys were claiming there's no way it would even earn comparable to the other MCU staples?

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Remember when Cap/Marvel fanboys were claiming The Winter Solider would earn more than X-Men

pturtle said:

Remember when Cap/Marvel fanboys were claiming The Winter Solider would earn more than X-Men

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Remember when people used to go to the movies?

pturtle said:

Remember when Cap/Marvel fanboys were claiming The Winter Solider would earn more than X-Men

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It did stateside.

pturtle said:

Remember when Cap/Marvel fanboys were claiming The Winter Solider would earn more than X-Men

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... ...

jye4ever said:

... ...

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If the Sentinels had looked like that, DoFP would likely have destroyed TWS vs. beating it by a measly $10mil, worldwide.

Instead we got those silly bird feather nano-tech Sentinels.

jye4ever said:

Instead we got those silly bird feather nano-tech Sentinels.

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And the blowdryers.

I lol at the blow dryers at first but at least they were in the same universe as the comic Sentinels.

Future Sentinels were the Transformers of Sentinels, just like my pumpkin pies, they were over cooked.