Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

krec9 said:

Can someone clear this up?

Spoiler:

how did Bucky saved Captain America in the end if his arm was broken so how he carry and swim at the same time.

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Spartan Rex said:

Yeah, Ultimate Cap rocked hardcore.
Hulk in that universe had a habit of cannibalizing his victims and it was after a brutal fight that Cap kicks Banner in the face to knock him out and take him into custody. Cap subdued an opponent when he finally had the opening. Banner looked weasily anyway. Ult Cap was written much better than previous versions.
Ult Caps reunion with an aged Bucky was also well done. It was almost exactly the same conversation he has with Peggy in WS.
Caps tactics against the Chitauri invaders is what wins the day and being able to bring in the Hulk when Banner doesn't want to.
He kicks him out of the helicopter knowing he'll change before he hits the ground. Yes, the Norton/Hulk movie ripped off this scene.
The famous panel of Cap pointing to the "A" on his helm and exclaiming it doest stand for France was from this battle.
All detractors and libs who say that's an out of character xenophobic comment are taking it out of context.
Ult Cap had passion in spades and he never lost.
But the most memorable scene is Cap tossing his cookies in seclusion after the victory, the nerves and the enormity of the situation finally catch up to him.
He was a bad azz super soldier combat vet but still just a man.

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Darth Zangetsu said:

People Cap punches in Ultimates 1: Nazis(I assume we all agree this is okay), Hank Pym(as retaliation for Hank beating up his wife an putting her in the hospital) His reaction is that of any normal human being after seeing the results. He makes Hank go Giant, and then he beats him down. I had/have no problem with this. Bruce Banner was a cheap shot. But remember Hulk had just killed millions of people rampaging through New York. Spider-Man was almost killed. Tony was almost eaten. Cap took the brunt of it so the others wouldn't get hurt. He's easily portrayed as a leader, and someone that these characters should follow. He makes Tony a better man. Pulls him out(somewhat) of his hedonistic ways. Cap in the Ultimates 1 is not the Superhero. He's a soldier out of time, and without a war. Peggy and Bucky are married and old. But you see the leader there several times. During the big final battle Tony is terrified, and wants to run, but Cap points out that if they don't stay, if it's not their responsibility to fight, then whose is it. Ultimate Cap is very different from 616. But these are also his earlier adventures. Remember he just woke up. 616 Cap has been awake for years. UCap still hangs around his war buddies who are still alive. He spends all his downtime with them. 616 Cap has long since moved on. You can't judge them the same. Currently Ultimate Cap is very much the superhero leader. He's mentoring the new Spider-Man, partially out of guilt for what happened to Peter. But he admits his mistakes and tries to be better. Hell, he may have just sacrificed himself to save the Ultimate Earth from 616 Galactus. Millar plays up the soldier aspect very early on. The Superhero stuff comes at the end of Ultimates 2. Just my take though.

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krec9 said:

Can someone clear this up?

Spoiler:

how did Bucky saved Captain America in the end if his arm was broken so how he carry and swim at the same time.

Click to expand...

karamazov80 said:

That issue where the future USAgent left those guys laying stuck out to me, because back then you didn't see much of that in Marvel and DC. But yeah, I haven't re-read that stuff in probably 15 years+ at this point. If I didn't have a huge stack of vintage Marvel stuff to get through first, I might go for that next. I actually remember distinctly getting that issue, ordering a huge lot of comics out of the Sears catalog. I also got the first cameo appearance of Venom there.


If you consider that the writer was a left leaning Scot who vocally opposed the war in Iraq and spent a great deal of time exploring the negative effects of a controlling, borderline totalitarian approach to superheroes though, you may view some of those comics a bit differently. Of course, we can all interpret the material in our own way, but I don't think Millar's intention was to genuinely glorify Cap there. But he's a very good writer, and no doubt intentionally did portray Cap in such a way that people can disagree about what he really stood for.


When you think of him simply as a human being, I can personally relate to why he did some of those things, and can support it when I see it (like Russell Crowe beating the abusing husband in LA Confidential). But I do think those versions of Cap are fundamentally different, because 616 Cap wouldn't have gone so far. And admittedly, I personally get hung up on how I think classic characters should be portrayed, which is why I'm still pissed about Hawkeye and Snyder/Goyer Superman. One thing I am happy with is Evans as Cap though. That's clearly classic 616 Cap in all the ways that matter. Marvel Studios may screw around with secondary characters here and there, borrowing too liberally from the Ultimates or whatever, but they got Cap right, they got Thor right, they got Hulk right. That's a great thing.


Movie magic?

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krec9 said:

Can someone clear this up?

Spoiler:

how did Bucky saved Captain America in the end if his arm was broken so how he carry and swim at the same time.

Click to expand...

GasparZizou said:

He has super-strength, I assume he can swim with his feet only.

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krec9 said:

He had super strength i thought he was just a regular guy with a metal arm?

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GasparZizou said:

Well Zola did something to him, otherwise he wouldn't have survived the fall in TFA, I think it was even mentioned in the movie.

Judging by the way he runs on rooftops and gives the Cap a run for his money in fist fights, I think it's a good guess

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bransen2099 said:

It was mentioned that Zola experimented on him when Bucky was captured in the first film. It wasn't mentioned then but it makes sense in TWS

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guy66657 said:

I couldn't take the Ultimate verse seriously anymore after Ultimatum. Everyone's a ****ing ****** in the Ultimate verse. The only thing I actually liked was Ultimate Spider-Man up till Carnage cAuse I just thought everything got way way too ridiculous that I couldn't take it seriously anymore. I mean...Hawkeye using his fingernails as weapons to kill people? I dunno dude, for Hawkeye, I think that's way too out there. I like my Hawkeye being raised by carnies. Guess I'm just more of a 616 guy and I am glad that so far the films have given their characters the personality traits and such of their 616 counterparts while more basing their aesthetics off the Ultimate run. Cept for Amazing Spider-Man but that's a different story.

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Spartan Rex said:

Yeah, Ultimate Cap rocked hardcore.
Hulk in that universe had a habit of cannibalizing his victims and it was after a brutal fight that Cap kicks Banner in the face to knock him out and take him into custody. Cap subdued an opponent when he finally had the opening. Banner looked weasily anyway. Ult Cap was written much better than previous versions.
Ult Caps reunion with an aged Bucky was also well done. It was almost exactly the same conversation he has with Peggy in WS.
Caps tactics against the Chitauri invaders is what wins the day and being able to bring in the Hulk when Banner doesn't want to.
He kicks him out of the helicopter knowing he'll change before he hits the ground. Yes, the Norton/Hulk movie ripped off this scene.
The famous panel of Cap pointing to the "A" on his helm and exclaiming it doest stand for France was from this battle.
All detractors and libs who say that's an out of character xenophobic comment are taking it out of context.
Ult Cap had passion in spades and he never lost.
But the most memorable scene is Cap tossing his cookies in seclusion after the victory, the nerves and the enormity of the situation finally catch up to him.
He was a bad azz super soldier combat vet but still just a man.

Click to expand...

Darth Zangetsu said:

More out there than the dude with radiation poisoning turning into a giant green rage monster? Or more out there as the talking raccoon with a machine gun and LOTR Ent as a bodyguard?

But i will give you Ultimatum was trash. it was a weak story. But right now i am enjoying Miles Morales as Spider-man. He keeps me coming back.

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guy66657 said:

No it's just for the character of Hawkeye, that was way too out there. Like it just makes him sound just like Bullseye since that's his thing. I like how 616 Hawkeye isn't like that.

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