Did Buffy "Jump the Shark?"

I was surprised to find a listing for Buffy in the "Jump the Shark" book by Jon Hein.

According to him, the moment when Buffy "jumped the shark" was with the Riley and the Initiative storyline. Here's the book's quote:

Buffy creators aren't afraid to tempt the shark in different ways, and succeeded early on in steering clear of the fin. But we spotted shark bait when the Scooby gang graduated high school at the end of the third season.

Trying to recover from losing Angel, Buffy enters college and meets up with Riley and the Initiative. This mysterious underground lab beneath the college streets catapulted the Slayer right over the shark. Spike's chip, Willow ditching Oz and his wolfman side for Tara (not that there's anything wrong with that), and Faith's body switch were too much for us to handle.

Our fears were confirmed the following season when, like Ralph Macchio on Eight is Enough, Buffy's mysterious sister Dawn, showed up. Granted, there have been some brilliantly written episodes since the destruction of the Initiative. Buffy has sung, danced, died, and come back again. But regardless of the power it may possess and its ability to repeatedly avoid the shark, no program could survive a move to UPN anyway.

Does anyone agree with this? I sure don't. The whole idea of jumping the shark is when a show (preferrably a good one) does something that shakes the integrity of the show's premise. In an attempt to refreshen up a show that has gone creatively stale, the writer's cross the line of believability. When the Mighty Gazoo joined the Flinstones is a perfect example. Sure, Buffy had some growing pains after graduation... it was hard to top that season ender! But there wasn't a SINGLE moment that I thought, that Buffy showed ANY signs of feeling stale. I don't think that Joss and Co EVER destroyed the intregity of the show's premise.

I'm sure there are people out there that think the first three seasons of Buffy were the best of the series. I also believe that they were strong as well. But I was always curious as to what the writers had in store for Buffy AFTER high school. Personally, I don't usually like a show that has high school as a setting... no matter how good they are. That period of maturation and shows that examine it doesn't really interest me. So I couldn't wait for Buiffy to graduate. So I enjoyed the storylines that were explored after high school. It seemed to deepen the character. Did Buffy really have a future when most slayer don't? I found it all compelling.

In fact, I thought the creation of Buffy's sister Dawn was on some level a sly spoof on those shows that DO jump the shark. At that time the show was on long enough to execute such a joke. Only Joss and company make her the "Key" to the whole season plot arc.

Your thoughts?

I wouldn't say Buffy ever really jumped the shark, but season 4 really was awful in my opinion. The initiative, Riley and Adam were all terminally dull, not to mention Willow's instant gayness. I didn't mind her being gay, the evolution of her and Tara's relationship was actually interesting to watch, but there was no hint of her being gay in the previous three season other than her alternate reality vampire double might have been bi-sexual.

The closest I'd say Buffy came to making the jump is in season 7 with the army of slayers and the magical mcguffin weapon (slayer scythe).

I totally agree PZ. For me Buffy, never jumped the shark. After the episode where Dawn was introduced I honestly thought that was the point where they were doing just that because I thought there was no way they could explain her and then they found a great way to do just that.

This term originated I believe from a Happy Days episode where Fonzie, while water skiing jumped over a shark. The plot was so ludicrous and so unbelievable and it was at a time when the show was losing viewers and they were desperate to get some attention.

All the things done on Buffy and Angel, imo, fit into the premise of the show and were believable in the context of what the shows were about.

I don't think that Buffy ever really jumped the shark per se, but some of the later seasons had their share of what I affectionately call "Mad Bomber" Episodes, a plot device well overused on Babylon 5. These are usually oddball self-contained stories, starring your villian of the week, that do little to drive the plot forward. Season seven really only suffered from the over use of Patton-esque speeches by Buffy as she attempts to guide the slayerettes. The message was drilled in over and over, ad nauseum.

Seaward said:

a plot device well overused on Babylon 5. These are usually oddball self-contained stories, starring your villian of the week, that do little to drive the plot forward. Season seven really only suffered from the over use of Patton-esque speeches by Buffy as she attempts to guide the slayerettes. The message was drilled in over and over, ad nauseum.

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I'd have to say I just finished all five seasons of Bab 5 and I didn't notice this at all. Most episodes had something that drove the overall plotline - you just sometimes didn't know till a whole season later - I'd highly recommend watching the whole lot back to back (as much as possible). Took me a few weeks but it was WAY better than watching individually.

The show that really pulls that sort of stuff was Voyager and its episodes that could have been shown any time in the whole seven season run - where by the end of the episode everything was back to the start thanks to some "chronal anomaly" or the techno babble cheap-ass save.

Buffy NEVER jumped the shark. I dont know how someone could think this. Nearly every episode was good, emotional episodes, character developments. Sure the plots got fantastical but hey its Buffy!

I may be coming out abit strog but I could never see ANY season of this show like that. Everything had a purpose.

I don't think Buffy was ever bad but season 7 was relatively weak imo.

bluesparrow said:

I don't think Buffy was ever bad but season 7 was relatively weak imo.

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season 7 was definately the weakest in story arc but without it we would miss some truly wonderful episodes.
Conversations with dead people, selfless, lies my parents told me.

I have to say (and this is a point my wife and I argue over incessently) that in my opinion 50% of seasons 4 and 5 were unmitigated ****e whereas the other half were genius.

Seasons 6 and 7 were both equally terrible in my opinion.

The main cuplrits being Willow's 'instant gayness' as quoted above. That to me is absolutely contrived and wrong (although did lead to some GREAT one-liners!).

To clarify - Not saying that Gay is wrong I'm just saying that for the character it came so far out of left field it was a BAD idea!

TheObsoleteMan said:

I wouldn't say Buffy ever really jumped the shark, but season 4 really was awful in my opinion. The initiative, Riley and Adam were all terminally dull, not to mention Willow's instant gayness. I didn't mind her being gay, the evolution of her and Tara's relationship was actually interesting to watch, but there was no hint of her being gay in the previous three season other than her alternate reality vampire double might have been bi-sexual.

The closest I'd say Buffy came to making the jump is in season 7 with the army of slayers and the magical mcguffin weapon (slayer scythe).

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yeah, i stopped watching every episode after season 3. then halfway through season 6 i started watching again i was really shocked. willow was gay?? i went out and bought all the dvd sets and watched them all. there were never any kind of suggestions or hints that Willow is gay until POOF she's gay.

~~i dont have any objections to people being gay either. i just find it hard to believe that someone wakes up one day and decides thats what they are.

I don't think Buffy ever jumped the shark. Angel came close with the whole Connor thing in season four, but thankfully saved themselves when everyone's memories of the annoying little bugger were erased by season five; not only that, but they made the whole arc resonate with Wesley's character when he remembered everything, which really saved it for me.

Ironically I'm right now on season 3 in the "Initiative" group of episodes.
I have to say, that I'm rolling my eyes a lot at the concept, but I'm going
with it and hoping to get on to more interesting episodes in the future.

I liked the first 2 seasons a LOT overall, with some isolated stinkers in there.
(the praying mantis woman and the robotic boyfriend jump to mind)

So I don't know about jumping any sharks yet, but it is straining things a bit
with the "Initiative" and I'm looking forward to getting through that section.

JS

For me, without the metaphorical foundation of "High School as Hell" to build on, the characters lost ground and never really regained their footing after the end of Season 3. But that was part of the evolution of the show, that coping with the loss of innocence and facing the uncertainties of adulthood could be just as frightening as fighting the forces of evil, and recovering from life's disappointments and betrayals could be just as daunting.

After the group fractured in S4, S5 brought the core characters back together again. We saw a new direction for Giles and a new base of operations for the Scoobies. plus the beginning of Spike's integration into the gang and the foreshadowing of Spuffy. The characters of Willow and Anya really came into their own, and it was revealed that not only is Harmony a vampire, she has minions! (Now, if only I could program my DVD player to auto-skip the annoying Ben/Glory and the Knights of Byzantium parts.)

I liked Season 6, as it continued to explore life and death in the real world, but S7 was a letdown, especially in light of the hype that it was going to get back to Buffy basics. Instead it introduced a boatload of insignificant and irrelevant characters that took precious screen time away from the principle cast. Like any given season, it had some great episodes, but in the end, it just did not deliver the goods for me.

I don't think it ever truly "jumped the shark" but it did often swim in the same waters.

SFX Magazine is currently polling opinions on this topic for an upcoming article.

I don't agree with the notion that Willow was "instantly gay." What episode did that occur in? I recall them meeting in "Hush" and having an obvious bond through their common interests and abilities, and I remember their increasingly suggestive and sensual "spells," but I can't put my finger on the moment when "POOF" she was gay.

When you think about it, Willow had many relatively effortless transformations throughout the series: from weak, awkward science-nerd to confident, powerful wiccan; from good to evil; from sidekick to leader; from straight to gay.

And speaking of foreshadowing, Whedon has said that he always intended to make either Xander or Willow gay. Remember the Xander-Larry interplay in "Phases?" The "Lesbian Alliance" banner Riley is hanging in "Something Blue?"

I'm sure I'll get butchered here but who cares, this forum is for voicing oppinions. Buffy is one of the worst shows I've ever seen. I was madly in love with SMG and couldn't stomach an entire episode of this crap. I liked the movie, and love the idea of vampires (I did work at Hot Topic so I've seen my fair share that think they are). But wow. I stopped torturing myself after the second season began but my girlfriend has all these on DVD and watches them occasionaly. I'll stumble into some stupid scene and just shake my head in disgust.

But hey, Buffy is still 100 times better than Charmed.

Darth Loki said:

But hey, Buffy is still 100 times better than Charmed.

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(Sarcastically) How magnanimous of you.
To each their own, Loki. Cheers.

Loki, please tell us your favorite two or three series and give us a fair shot at your favorites! I'm guessing "Alf" "Cop Rock" and "Byrds of Paradise"!

Buffy seasons 2 and 3 were fantastic television (the movie sucked BTW Loki!)

I also enjoyed season 7. I like when shows don't go the way all the fans seem to want, (for instance I loved that Jack died in the Alias finale and at Irina was REALLY bad after all). I was actually hoping a major Scoobie would get killed as opposed to everyone but Anya getting out alive (we all knew Spike would be on Angel the next season before the Buffy finale so he doesn't count).

To each his own.

Of all time or current? Screw it, I'll give you both.

All time- South Park is way up there, Friends as well. I've always loved Family Guy. Hard to think of all time favs off the top of my head.

Current- Lost, Family Guy, and Invasion was but it's not likely to get picked up again next year

Fire at will

Buffy can jump my shark anytime (Just kidding)

Darth Loki said:

Of all time or current? Screw it, I'll give you both.

All time- South Park is way up there, Friends as well. I've always loved Family Guy. Hard to think of all time favs off the top of my head.

Current- Lost, Family Guy, and Invasion was but it's not likely to get picked up again next year

Fire at will

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To each it own. Personally I never got into the whole Friends craze. I've watched about a dozen or more episodes (especially the over-hyped "very special" episodes) to try and get into it but I never laughed once. In fact, I thought the humor was so "telegraphed" that I could finish the punchline for the characters.

But hey, Friends is 100 times better than Will and Grace!

Frankly, I've had a hard time liking sitcoms since Seinfeld. That show set a standard for the form, for me, that is hard to top. However, I really enjoyed Arrested Development. It felt VERY fresh.

Seinfeld is also an all time favorite. I never really got into the show until it got syndicated and I know I've seen every one at least 5-10 times.

Friends will always be special to me becuase it was the one show me and my Mom always made time to watch together so it was kinda our thing. Plus my humor is very Chandler Bing-ish.