Hot Toys rubber deterioration

[xkage824]

deterioration is the nightmare we are all waiting to happen
but how do we prevent it?
i only just started collecting hot toys a few months ago and I soon became aware of the risks of buying hot toys and suffering the dreaded rubber deterioration. now i am looking for a solution to this problem to prevent any damage before it happens.
i learned about how UV rays damage the colors on them so i blacked out my windows and got LED lights.
I learned how dust can also discolor collectibles so i bought display cases for them. (good old detolfs)
now i am in search of the solution to the third and what i believe to be final problem.
I read somewhere that hot toys was working on a solution to this issue but does anybody know if they succeeded?
does silicone spray really work?
what other solutions do people know of?

[Wanderer]

You sound a bit too OCD about your toys imo. Keep ' em in your detolfs, don't play with them too much and just enjoy them. You can't stop time and sadly nothing lasts forever. No point beating yourself with worry over them..:monkey1

[snoop101]

Exactly what wanderer said, just enjoy them and quit worrying.

[farrrs]

do what i did if your that worried and seal the detolf shut! i just placed cellotape along the gaps as neat and tidy as i could! it doesnt show up unless up close! i placed a cup of water in the detolf to keep up humidity and also placed a couple of those small hot toys white packages inside that say 'do not eat' as they supposedly suck up any moisture in the air! i cut 1 or 2 small holes in the cellotape to let in a tiny amount of air!

the results of this mean my shelfs take a couple of months for a tiny dust build up to oocur so i dont have to clean them every 3 weeks like when it wasnt sealed!
it also means i cant get to repose them as often as id like!:(

[xkage824]

well your entitled to your own opinion.
i know i personally would prefer not to see thousands of dollars turn to dust.
i would rather sell them all than do that.

[kl241]

There are been numerous threads discussing this. Some of the older muscle bodies like Rambo are deteriorating/splitting. And of course, ED-209. Then there was the leaking Batman DX suit. It's definitely an issue.

[Demimatt]

dont bend the arms, my co worker educated me on rubber bodies and as a result I personally stay away from them. I like to pose my figures in dynamic poses, but unfortunately if you bend the joints and what not it will deteriorate since stress is being put on the rubber skin. His solution is to have them all in neutral positions or having the arms extended. He never bends the joints, so unfortunately alot of the figures look lame just stading there.

Just either deal with it? Or be more away of which figures you buy, its like not wanting your shoes to yellow, it will happen no matter what.

[Lejuan]

Why not just buy two of each figure and box one of them?

As much as I'd love to enjoy these things for years to come, and pass them on to my kids and grandkids so they know what a nutter their grand-dad was, I'd prefer to just enjoy them now.

[lerath666]

Hot toys has a solution they are currently implementing on many of their 1/6th scale figures.

this ongoing solution is currently being used on the t2 T-800 figure, Wolverine, and percius.

They've stopped using it as much as possible.
the only way to avoid deterioration on the HT figures with rubber is not to buy them.

[xkage824]

do what i did if your that worried and seal the detolf shut! i just placed cellotape along the gaps as neat and tidy as i could! it doesnt show up unless up close! i placed a cup of water in the detolf to keep up humidity and also placed a couple of those small hot toys white packages inside that say 'do not eat' as they supposedly suck up any moisture in the air! i cut 1 or 2 small holes in the cellotape to let in a tiny amount of air!

the results of this mean my shelfs take a couple of months for a tiny dust build up to oocur so i dont have to clean them every 3 weeks like when it wasnt sealed!
it also means i cant get to repose them as often as id like!:(

i thought about using those packs that come with them in the box too
it would make sense
as for the glass of water... not sure how that would help

[The Craw]

do what i did if your that worried and seal the detolf shut! i just placed cellotape along the gaps as neat and tidy as i could! it doesnt show up unless up close! i placed a cup of water in the detolf to keep up humidity and also placed a couple of those small hot toys white packages inside that say 'do not eat' as they supposedly suck up any moisture in the air! i cut 1 or 2 small holes in the cellotape to let in a tiny amount of air!

the results of this mean my shelfs take a couple of months for a tiny dust build up to oocur so i dont have to clean them every 3 weeks like when it wasnt sealed!
it also means i cant get to repose them as often as id like!:(let me get this straight. so you put water in the detolf to provide moisture, but you also put those silica packets in there to absorb moisture? please Einstein, tell me the logic behind this great endeavor of your's.

[karamazov80]

The whole rubber deterioration issue is part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy orchestrated by Medicom.

[EVILFACE]

They won't last forever no matter what you do.

[FQRizzo]

let me get this straight. so you put water in the detolf to provide moisture, but you also put those silica packets in there to absorb moisture? please Einstein, tell me the logic behind this great endeavor of your's.

:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl

[dcflake]

Going forward I don't see a problem. Hot Toys are now making most bodies out of plastic and they have sorted the DX Batman issue with plastic abs. They seem to be straying away from rubber. The Iron Man is the only issue I can forsee and I haven't had any problem with it. The worst case the abs fade a bit and in most cases it's only noticable in direct light. You also don't know how Hot Toys are improving the new Iron Mans coming out. Maybe now they know the problem and have fixed it.

As for in the past, people's muscle bodies cracked due to them not knowing what causes it. Extreme posing, dust, humidity. Some where just unlucky. Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

[xkage824]

if the collectibles are kept in their boxes would they be preserved?
if so could you not just create these conditions in your display to preserve them?

[dcflake]

if the collectibles are kept in their boxes would they be preserved?
if so could you not just create these conditions in your display to preserve them?

To that I say that there are mint on card Kenner Chewbacca's with green limbs because the plastic has discoloured due to age.

[Lejuan]

if the collectibles are kept in their boxes would they be preserved?
if so could you not just create these conditions in your display to preserve them?

People who do keep their figures boxed say that they have to take them out every now and again for an 'airing', as keeping figures boxed 100% of the time can create moisture build-up problems. I don't know why this is a problem if the moisture-absorbing sachets are kept in the box as well.

I think a reliable solution to avoid dust build-up would be to place the figure in a vacuum-sealed bag and store it inside a lead-lined box in the cellar.

[lerath666]

so in short, no. you Really can't.

Either A
Pose them once, then never touch them again.

B
Don't buy figures with Rubber bodies/ suits

C
Buy statues if figures with joints bother you.

that's really your only options.

[robbiethepainter]

People who do keep their figures boxed say that they have to take them out every now and again for an 'airing', as keeping figures boxed 100% of the time can create moisture build-up problems. I don't know why this is a problem if the moisture-absorbing sachets are kept in the box as well.

I think a reliable solution to avoid dust build-up would be to place the figure in a vacuum-sealed bag and store it inside a lead-lined box in the cellar.

That's what I did. Then I filled the room full of concrete.

[DiFabio]

People who do keep their figures boxed say that they have to take them out every now and again for an 'airing', as keeping figures boxed 100% of the time can create moisture build-up problems. I don't know why this is a problem if the moisture-absorbing sachets are kept in the box as well.

I think a reliable solution to avoid dust build-up would be to place the figure in a vacuum-sealed bag and store it inside a lead-lined box in the cellar.

http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=13878

10 DiFabio points if you get the reference.

[LycosV]

That's what I did. Then I filled the room full of concrete.

I think this sounds like the only way to be sure.

Seriously though, you could probably keep them sealed in a container filled with nitrogen like really old documents but I don't think that's practical.

[xkage824]

is it better that the rubber has moisture then?
or is it better for it to be dry?
because if hot toys is putting those packets in that absorb the moisture... would this not make the rubber dry up and crack?

[Geil]

I think the packets are there to absorb moisture that is trapped when putting everythign together because it is rather humid in Asia many months. The excess moisture need to be removed to avoid mold buildup.
However the air cannot be dry which does not happen in South east Asia much as usually that only happens when you live in a country that requires you to turn up the heat. I personally don't think jhumidity is of any harm as long as the air is somewhat moving. So yeah I put a glass of water in my detolfs and fill them up maybe ones a month. They do the same in a lot of displays.
Best is to research how museums and libraries keep things well and preserved.

[Lejuan]

I think this sounds like the only way to be sure.

Seriously though, you could probably keep them sealed in a container filled with nitrogen like really old documents but I don't think that's practical.

Concrete and nitrogen sound fine in theory, but the reality is you don't get to see the figure. There is another way. Rather than actually buying the figure, simply download and print a promo or proto pic of it, then print this out and stick it on your wall, shelf, detolf etc.

[iampoch]

I don't know why this is a problem if the moisture-absorbing sachets are kept in the box as well.


Because those silica gel pellets won't be able to hold in moisture indefinitely. There's a limit to their absorption. Best thing to do is to buy silica gel pellets, make sure that you buy the indicating ones. There are two types. One contains cobalt chloride and is blue by default. The other one doesn't have that chemical. I'd recommend the latter as cobalt chloride is a hazardous chemical. In either case, the gels will turn to pink once they've become too saturated. in that case, you'll need to replace them. Some microwave their gels and they turn back to their original colors. I wouldn't recommend this, though, as you use the microwave for your food stuff as well.

Also, your aim is NOT to eliminate moisture, but to regulate it. Putting too much silica gel will create a very dry atmosphere in your cab/case, and it will cause your rubber to crack. This is also the reason why farrrs puts in a glass of water. He's more or less trying to create a more balanced environment for the rubber. Given that, you'll need to put in just the right amount of silica gels.

If you want to learn more, google those DIY dry box tutorials. We use these to preserve our photo equipment and these DIY dry boxes are more affordable than those electronic ones.

As for the UV light, it's already a given that preventing your figures from contact with sunlight. Therefore, the best solution is to either treat the glass/acrylic with anti-UV coating or buy those spray-ons. Both are very expensive, though, so is quite impractical for most of us. A more practical solution is to use display cabinets that are not all-glass. It won't be as elegant, but this would at least shield your toys from fluorescent light. You can then use LED lights to light up the cab. Or, use those LED bulbs as the light source for your room. That'll work as well.

[Lejuan]

If you want to learn more, google those DIY dry box tutorials. We use these to preserve our photo equipment and these DIY dry boxes are more affordable than those electronic ones.

:goodpost: Jokes aside, this is an awesome tip. I was googling all sorts of things relating to museum displays etc but this is what I wanted to find!

Still too much work for me, but it's good to know in case I evolve into a dust obsessive.

[xkage824]

i think i may try to do this glass of water thing with the gel packets
there is one gel pack per box and two boxes fit in each shelf of a detolf so two packs per shelf should be about right as for the water i live in vancouver and i usually have the windows open to regulate heat so i can't imagine i would need more than 1/2 a cup
per detolf.
as for a longer term solution you could replace the rubber parts with silicone or Vulcanized rubber.
any thoughts?

[iampoch]

i think i may try to do this glass of water thing with the gel packets
there is one gel pack per box and two boxes fit in each shelf of a detolf so two packs per shelf should be about right as for the water i live in vancouver and i usually have the windows open to regulate heat so i can't imagine i would need more than 1/2 a cup
per detolf.
as for a longer term solution you could replace the rubber parts with silicone or Vulcanized rubber.
any thoughts?

Yup, just remember that you need to change the silica gels once they're saturated, or else they would no longer absorb moisture and that extra bit of water will do more harm than good.

As for that long term solution, you should be really good at customizing to recreate the sculpts and painting them to be as close to the production as possible. That means for most of us, that's not a good solution for our Leonidas and Batman figures. I'd probably have a better chance at becoming a personal gigolo of Angelina Jolie than being that good in sculpting and customizing (and the chances of that happening is already below zero). Your mileage may vary, however. Recreating the appropriate environment would be a more practical and viable solution.

[tcollector]

As iampoch stated, "As for the UV light, it's already a given that preventing your figures from contact with sunlight. Therefore, the best solution is to either treat the glass/acrylic with anti-UV coating or buy those spray-ons. Both are very expensive, though, so is quite impractical for most of us. A more practical solution is to use display cabinets that are not all-glass. It won't be as elegant, but this would at least shield your toys from fluorescent light. You can then use LED lights to light up the cab. Or, use those LED bulbs as the light source for your room. That'll work as well."

I believe the UV light is a bigger concern than the exact humidity levels. If the room is comfortable to you (not to dry / moist) then the HT figures should be fine. Ex. If your skins dried & cracked from your enviroment then so will the rubber on the figures.:slap

[iampoch]

I believe the UV light is a bigger concern than the exact humidity levels. If the room is comfortable to you (not to dry / moist) then the HT figures should be fine. Ex. If your skins dried & cracked from your enviroment then so will the rubber on the figures.:slap

I agree.

There are a chock-full of ways to regulate moisture, but few and expensive ones for preventing deterioration due to UV. What's more, most plastics used in toys/figures (ABS and PVC) are just as susceptible to this kind of damage as rubber. However, it'll take years before the deterioration manifests. And plastics that deteriorate this way are much easier to treat than rubber (if there are treatments to rubber at all).

[tylerdurden]

so far, i haven't any deterioration problems with my rubber-suited tdk batman, and nostromo officer kane. most of my 1/6 figures are in a cabinet with a closed glass door, in a cool, dim room. i seldom turn on the display lights unless showing my collection off to guests. i change kane's pose every few months, so there's no long-term stress on any one rubber part.

the only issue i have is that batman's suit is a dust magnet! and once the dust digs in there, it's reeeeally hard to get it off. so i dust-off the rubber suits lightly with a make-up brush once a month.

[xkage824]

i emailed hot toys about this and there response was as follows:

Thanks for your support to Hot Toys product.
Figure will not be deteriorated with a good maintainance.
Customers are suggested to follow the instruction book for information and points to noted.

what do you suppose they mean?

[a-dev]

Concrete and nitrogen sound fine in theory, but the reality is you don't get to see the figure. There is another way. Rather than actually buying the figure, simply download and print a promo or proto pic of it, then print this out and stick it on your wall, shelf, detolf etc.

:lol Nah man the paper would discolour over time and the edges would start turning up, you're not thinking this through.

[DiFabio]

i emailed hot toys about this and there response was as follows:

Thanks for your support to Hot Toys product.
Figure will not be deteriorated with a good maintainance.
Customers are suggested to follow the instruction book for information and points to noted.

what do you suppose they mean?

What else are they going to say? The figures will deteriorate over time? Yeah, right. Not that they'd lose too many customers if they just admitted it but that just wouldn't look too good.

These things won't last forever even with tons of care. Best bet is to just buy characters with plastic true type bodies and cloth clothes. So far I've done just that, I had to cave with Batman and all of his costumes though. No choice.

[Studio49]

This is going to make some of you upset, and for that I apologize in advance. But you need to know the hard truth now.

If it bothers you that your figures may not last a lifetime, sell them right now.

There is no spray, powder, humidity level, light level or temperature that will stop the breakdown of rubber, plastic, wood, metal or cloth. It doesn't exist. I will repeat that for those of you who didn't hear me. YOU CANNOT STOP THE DETERIORATION OF PLASTIC AND RUBBER WITH ANY KNOWN PROCESS OR ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITION. You can possibly slow down the process, but probably not unless you have a museum type budget for a custom display case. All the tape and cups of water in the world won't solve your problem.

I worked for ten years in a museum, curating and cataloging a collection of rare documents and artifacts. I have been involved in climate control conferences, talks on molecular stability of chemical compounds and all sorts of other yawn-inducing topics. Paper stored in absolutely ideal temperature and humidity controlled vaults still continues to turn yellow. Time marches on for all things.

Even museums have a hard time keeping stuff from rotting away. Take a look...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/08/24/pvc.toy.danger/

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/2000/158-24/15824-19.pdf

For those of you too lazy to click, check out this snippet: "Some of the most vulnerable new materials are plastics. Museums display them as toys, medical equipment, footwear, inflatable furniture, and more, says Yvonne Shashoua of the National Museum of Denmark. “They’re found in every museum in the world,” she says. Yet many plastics exhibited in museums can change so much chemically that within a decade they start to feel tacky. Many such objects must be taken out of a collection after just 20 years, says Shashoua."

So, what choices do we have?

1. Enjoy the figures. Take them out of the box, look at them, pose them and put them on a shelf where you can see them. Show them to your friends. If you are not to hot, or cold, or humid or dry then your figures are not as well. When they really start to melt, leak, crack and peel don't be shocked.

2. Sell them.

[Studio49]

I haven't been able to buy any of the rubber suit Hot Toys figures. All of my figures are plastic bodies with cloth clothing.

I will say that I wouldn't mind owning some of the rubber figures, but I wouldn't expect them to hold up long term. I also have it good, because I like to "upgrade" my figures by customizing them. I want to make real leather components for some of my figures that have "pleather" parts. I also like to swap out rubber boots for leather ones when I can. Leather deteriorates too, but if you keep it conditioned it looks nice longer.

So I feel bad for all of you mint-in-box guys. You don't know what kind of sinking ship you are on. Come to the dark side. Crack the seal, pull off the rubber boots, repaint the head and make something cool. Tomorrow it's all going to melt anyway.

[EVILFACE]

I think this sounds like the only way to be sure.

Seriously though, you could probably keep them sealed in a container filled with nitrogen like really old documents but I don't think that's practical.

What kind of joy is that? Why own something that is kept sealed away in a plastic container in the basement :dunno

[Lejuan]

This reminds me of a friend of mine who didn't want to see his dog grow old. So he had the dog put down, stuffed it and now has it in the corner next to the fireplace.

He's had that stuffed dog 18 years now, and that dog hasn't aged a day in all that time.

[Kamandi]

A friend of mine has a 12 inch Mego Admiral Kirk from Star Trek the Motionless Picture.

He has kept it packaged since it was released, only taking it out of the box a few times. Despite this, the rubber head has turned green and is tacky to the touch.

So, if you want to keep your collectables nice forever the only solution is to sacrifice a virgin to appease the gods.

[DiFabio]

Sacrifice a virgin to appease the gods.

I can find plenty of those in these parts! Is it for each individual figure I own or my whole collection? Either way, I'm covered.

[Lejuan]

This reminds me of a friend of mine who had best chef in Europe cook at his house one evening. He wanted to be able to impress his friends with what was cooked, so rather than eat any of it he encased the whole 7-course shebang in clear acrylic. I have to say it all looks fantastic.

[Studio49]

Just to make them worry a little more... :panic:

http://www.slate.com/id/2221963/
http://www.vam.ac.uk/res_cons/conservation/journal/conservation_journal_6/plastic_objects/index.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/masy.200650610/abstract
http://www.zincpanic.com/article/25252.html
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Photodegradation
http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=79090

I would say at best, our figures with no rubber parts will last 30 years or less. Those with rubber probably won't make it a decade.

[zickjosiahs]

Just to make them worry a little more... :panic:

http://www.slate.com/id/2221963/
http://www.vam.ac.uk/res_cons/conservation/journal/conservation_journal_6/plastic_objects/index.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/masy.200650610/abstract
http://www.zincpanic.com/article/25252.html
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Photodegradation
http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=79090

I would say at best, our figures with no rubber parts will last 30 years or less. Those with rubber probably won't make it a decade.

Thanks for the links bro

[zickjosiahs]

This reminds me of a friend of mine who didn't want to see his dog grow old. So he had the dog put down, stuffed it and now has it in the corner next to the fireplace.

He's had that stuffed dog 18 years now, and that dog hasn't aged a day in all that time.

Hahahahahaha that guy is just awesome!! Amazing! thanks lejuan, this story made my day

[brothersrobber]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1980s-WWF-Hulk-Hogan-7-5-tall-wrestling-figure-/280557548330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415288732a

What are those WWF wrestling figures in the 80's made of? I used to have these as a kid. They felt like rubber to me. Now used ones are still offered on eBay. I think we're okay. I think it's kind of crazy or paranoid to say these hot toys rubber figures won't last a decade. What are you guys doing? I used to really take a Hogan figure and body slam the Iron Shiek. A figure in each hand and the battles would last for hours until my mom told me to go do my homework. So unless you're 10 yrs old, and really throwing a boxing match between Rocky and Clubber Lang until homework time, I think you have nothing to worry about.

Display it, enjoy it, leave it alone.

[EVILFACE]

The old WWF figures are made from way stiffer rubber than the HT style muscle bodies.

[brothersrobber]

The old WWF figures are made from way stiffer rubber than the HT style muscle bodies.


True, but they also get 100x the abuse. I know. :)

[quiggle]

do any of you believe the T-800 leather jacket and pants will have any deteriorating problems over time? also for the Sarah Connor Hot Toys that was released recently, are her rubber arms pose a problem in the future?

maybe Hot Toys should start making their figures out of cold cast polystone?

[El Skutto]

The old WWF figures are made from way stiffer rubber than the HT style muscle bodies.

I'm pretty sure they were made out of PVC, like the Smurfs figurines. And yes, they'll definitely deteriorate in time.

As for me, I found a simple solution to the rubber problem - I sold all my 1:6 figures and limit myself to statues and PFs exclusively.

[quiggle]

I'm pretty sure they were made out of PVC, like the Smurfs figurines. And yes, they'll definitely deteriorate in time.

As for me, I found a simple solution to the rubber problem - I sold all my 1:6 figures and limit myself to statues and PFs exclusively.

how do those stand up over time, polystone and resin cold casts? it's very humid and muggy where I live and was wondering if those will deteriorate over the long run?

[El Skutto]

how do those stand up over time, polystone and resin cold casts? it's very humid and muggy where I live and was wondering if those will deteriorate over the long run?

I haven't had any problems so far but I try to keep my house relatively cool and dry. I also keep my statues out of direct sunlight.

I would guess that the polystone will probably last a lifetime, although the paint could fade or chip over time. Again, keeping the statue in a controlled climate and away from sunlight should prevent that from ever happening. To my knowledge, we have yet to hear of any PFs breaking down due to age.

The only other issue would be deterioration of the materials, but that shouldn't be an issue in a controlled environment. Again, keeping moisture away from the materials and avoiding sunlight to prevent fading should be sufficient to avoid any serious problems. Obviously, you'll want to keep the moths away, too.

Metals can tarnish and rust if exposed to air and moisture, and plastics can get discoloured, but that's about the extent of it. Naturally, any rubber parts are subject to the usual deterioration issues.

[quiggle]

thank you Skutto, I was thinking of purchasing a couple of statues from MindzEye Studios, the Hellboy ones and I think those are the same materials as the SideShow PF statues?

[El Skutto]

thank you Skutto, I was thinking of purchasing a couple of statues from MindzEye Studios, the Hellboy ones and I think those are the same materials as the SideShow PF statues?

Presumably. Most modern statues are made of polystone, while some are still made of "classic" materials like marble, porcelain or ceramics. In any case, all of those materials are built to withstand the elements over long periods of time.

[jkno]

i placed a cup of water in the detolf to keep up humidity and also placed a couple of those small hot toys white packages inside that say 'do not eat' as they supposedly suck up any moisture in the air! i

This means you just added water in the cabinet to be absorbed by the silica gel packages? But the silica gel absorbs water until it's full.

Anyway I know of the problems with the Hot Toys Appleseed figures, where the inner elbow joints got cracked paint and ruptured. Not my case (for now - and hopefully never or not very soon) but it happened to a few, maybe Wookster could share some light on this.

This reminds me of a friend of mine who didn't want to see his dog grow old. So he had the dog put down, stuffed it and now has it in the corner next to the fireplace.

He's had that stuffed dog 18 years now, and that dog hasn't aged a day in all that time.

One of the creepiest things to do to a pet... LOL

Just to make them worry a little more... :panic:

http://www.slate.com/id/2221963/
http://www.vam.ac.uk/res_cons/conservation/journal/conservation_journal_6/plastic_objects/index.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/masy.200650610/abstract
http://www.zincpanic.com/article/25252.html
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Photodegradation
http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=79090

I would say at best, our figures with no rubber parts will last 30 years or less. Those with rubber probably won't make it a decade.

Thanks for the links and info!

how do those stand up over time, polystone and resin cold casts? it's very humid and muggy where I live and was wondering if those will deteriorate over the long run?

The funny thing is that polystone is a type of plastic as well...

[El Skutto]

The funny thing is that polystone is a type of plastic as well...

Technically, it's made primarily of resin, which does not deteriorate once it sets. It's like epoxy glue - once it hardens, it's almost impossible to remove.

While time will tell if polystone has long-term durability, there's no question it'll outlast any existing rubber or plastic by decades.

[Studio49]

I think it's kind of crazy or paranoid to say these hot toys rubber figures won't last a decade.

Uh, no. It's crazy and paranoid to believe these things will last more than a decade. I have science, and a number of Hot Toys rubber products that have already started the process on my side. Care to share your proof that they will last more than a decade?

Ask the owners of Hot Toys Batman, Rambo and ED-209 figures how the rubber is working out for them.

Hot Toys Batman figures have oil leaking out of them. It's probably a plasticizer chemical which is used to keep the rubber pliant. It usually takes years for the chemical to start leaking but these are already doing it. The rubber suit figures will start cracking at the stress points, but that is just a symptom of the larger problem of the rubber losing it's structure. Every rubber suited figure will eventually crack and crumble.

[2ndname]

The leaking Batman is not so bad, kinda like that DCUC batman with **** everywhere. Add realism to battle damage =)

http://www.dcuc.info/2-packs/batman-vs-clayface/

[Studio49]

Technically, it's made primarily of resin, which does not deteriorate once it sets. It's like epoxy glue - once it hardens, it's almost impossible to remove.

While time will tell if polystone has long-term durability, there's no question it'll outlast any existing rubber or plastic by decades.

Polystone is not immune to breakdown. I have old model kits made from resin that have turned yellow with age, just like cheap plastic toys. Granted, they will probably last longer than say, a rubber action figure. But the paint will eventually peel and the resin may start to discolor or crumble. How long will it take? Who knows. But if you buy these statues in your twenties, I would not plan on retiring with a set of mint condition statues. But I am paranoid so who knows. :)

[quiggle]

not to throw this off topic, but would sending these to AFA to be graded and encased in their special acrylic UV resistant cases help in any way to prevent the deteriorating?

[quiggle]

Polystone is not immune to breakdown. I have old model kits made from resin that have turned yellow with age, just like cheap plastic toys. Granted, they will probably last longer than say, a rubber action figure. But the paint will eventually peel and the resin may start to discolor or crumble. How long will it take? Who knows. But if you buy these statues in your twenties, I would not plan on retiring with a set of mint condition statues. But I am paranoid so who knows. :)

when you refer to paint peeling, if it's a cold cast bronze also in the same field.

this is the Helloboy I'd like to buy in the future and want to know if cold cast bronze will wear and tear over time?

http://www.mindzeyestudios.com/hellboy/

[Kamandi]

Bronze will oxidize over time and take on a patina.

[slipknotpredator]

its inevitable

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7476/agentsmith.jpg

[quiggle]

Bronze will oxidize over time and take on a patina.

gaulee, usually how long does it take for patina to go into effect? maybe I should go back to collecting worn movie clothing if collectibles don't have much of a durable life.

[Kamandi]

its inevitable

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7476/agentsmith.jpg

lol:rotfl:lol::rotfl:lol:rotfl:lol:rotfl

gaulee, usually how long does it take for patina to go into effect?

I'm not an expert on that one. I don't know if you can clearcoat bronze or what that would do over time.


maybe I should go back to collecting worn movie clothing if collectibles don't have much of a durable life.


Moths will eat your costumes. :acme

NOTHING lasts forever, you can only enjoy it while you can, in the moment. You do some common sense things like keep your collectible out of harms way, but after that time marches on.

[quiggle]

lol:rotfl:lol::rotfl:lol:rotfl:lol:rotfl




Moths will eat your costumes. :acme

NOTHING lasts forever, you can only enjoy it while you can, in the moment. You do some common sense things like keep your collectible out of harms way, but after that time marches on.

thanks Kamandi, unfortunately I live in a very hot and humid area that I can't control and damage to the figures would probably come prematurely than most.

[Kamandi]

Everything plastic or vinyl is just a big chemistry experiment. How long will it last? What kind of mold release agent was used in the casting process? What's the formulation for the plastic/vinyl? What chemicals are in the paint? How do all of these things interact? What environmental variables (heat/cold/humidity/light) has the piece been exposed to? etc, etc...

[xkage824]

reading all of this makes a person want to stop collecting anything :(

[Kamandi]

"Hey, even the Mona Lisa's falling apart." - Tyler Durden

[lerath666]

This is going to make some of you upset, and for that I apologize in advance. But you need to know the hard truth now.

If it bothers you that your figures may not last a lifetime, sell them right now.

There is no spray, powder, humidity level, light level or temperature that will stop the breakdown of rubber, plastic, wood, metal or cloth. It doesn't exist. I will repeat that for those of you who didn't hear me. YOU CANNOT STOP THE DETERIORATION OF PLASTIC AND RUBBER WITH ANY KNOWN PROCESS OR ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITION. You can possibly slow down the process, but probably not unless you have a museum type budget for a custom display case. All the tape and cups of water in the world won't solve your problem.

I worked for ten years in a museum, curating and cataloging a collection of rare documents and artifacts. I have been involved in climate control conferences, talks on molecular stability of chemical compounds and all sorts of other yawn-inducing topics. Paper stored in absolutely ideal temperature and humidity controlled vaults still continues to turn yellow. Time marches on for all things.

Even museums have a hard time keeping stuff from rotting away. Take a look...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/08/24/pvc.toy.danger/

http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/2000/158-24/15824-19.pdf

For those of you too lazy to click, check out this snippet: "Some of the most vulnerable new materials are plastics. Museums display them as toys, medical equipment, footwear, inflatable furniture, and more, says Yvonne Shashoua of the National Museum of Denmark. “They’re found in every museum in the world,” she says. Yet many plastics exhibited in museums can change so much chemically that within a decade they start to feel tacky. Many such objects must be taken out of a collection after just 20 years, says Shashoua."

So, what choices do we have?

1. Enjoy the figures. Take them out of the box, look at them, pose them and put them on a shelf where you can see them. Show them to your friends. If you are not to hot, or cold, or humid or dry then your figures are not as well. When they really start to melt, leak, crack and peel don't be shocked.

2. Sell them.
:goodpost::exactly:


reading all of this makes a person want to stop collecting anything :(



see the above post i quoted.

[Kamandi]

reading all of this makes a person want to stop collecting anything :(

Things your figures will last longer than (but you buy anyway):


Just about any PC. Parents and grandparents might try to milk 10 or more years out of a PC, but most younger people understand there's about 4 or 5 useful years in any PC before it's outdated. Maybe as few as 3 if you're a gamer.

Your cell phone will be an outdated piece of crap within 3 years. Smart Phones are evolving faster than PCs at this time.

Your flatscreen TV. Televisions are prone to back-lights burning out and other component failure within 10 years. Speakers and sound systems will deteriorate from foam failure or speaker perforation. LEDs are prone to dead pixels or dead lines. Plasmas can get screen burn in.

Your car has components that are prone to wear and tear, yet everyone still buys a car. It's most people's single biggest money hole.

Do you own a suit? nice clothes? How long will you be able to wear it? Maybe your weight will change. You still buy clothes.

People buy stuff everyday that will need upgrading and replacing eventually.

Most of these collectibles will lose their luster anyhow when some newer vendor puts them to shame somehow. I remember when the Playmates Star Trek props were considered to be pretty good. Then Master Replicas came along...

[quiggle]

yeah unlike phones, computers, cars I was thinking about buying the T-800 because I felt that is the best of the best of the best that won't be matched in the future by other sculpts and need upgrading but I'm worried about the leather jacket and pants cracking.

[xkage824]

yeah unlike phones, computers, cars I was thinking about buying the T-800 because I felt that is the best of the best of the best that won't be matched in the future by other sculpts and need upgrading but I'm worried about the leather jacket and pants cracking.

well i guess then it would be the battle damaged version
jokes aside, would the rubber last 10 years without showing any signs of deterioration?

[Studio49]

yeah unlike phones, computers, cars I was thinking about buying the T-800 because I felt that is the best of the best of the best that won't be matched in the future by other sculpts and need upgrading but I'm worried about the leather jacket and pants cracking.

Buy it and enjoy it. Or don't, and spend the money on something else. As much as I "doom and gloom" about these figures, it doesn't stop me from buying them. But I know they won't last as long as my other collections (fossils and guns).

Hell, I still buy DVD's and Blu-rays but those won't last until I retire either.

well i guess then it would be the battle damaged version
jokes aside, would the rubber last 10 years without showing any signs of deterioration?

It could last 20 years. Or it could be cracking in 2 years. I personally don't own any of the rubber body figures, but I would if I could. I just know that they won't last as long as the standard plastic bodies.

[SpaceCrawler]

deterioration is the nightmare we are all waiting to happen
but how do we prevent it?
i only just started collecting hot toys a few months ago and I soon became aware of the risks of buying hot toys and suffering the dreaded rubber deterioration. now i am looking for a solution to this problem to prevent any damage before it happens.
i learned about how UV rays damage the colors on them so i blacked out my windows and got LED lights.
I learned how dust can also discolor collectibles so i bought display cases for them. (good old detolfs)
now i am in search of the solution to the third and what i believe to be final problem.
I read somewhere that hot toys was working on a solution to this issue but does anybody know if they succeeded?
does silicone spray really work?
what other solutions do people know of?

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do, unless you have an oxygen-free environment to display your figures in. Most rubber degradation is a reaction with molecular oxygen. Light also plays a role, and you've taken care of that, but the oxygen is going to be impossible to solve.

About sealing your Detlof, here's what I did:
I bought some thick clear plastic tubing at the hardware store, cut it to the length of each of the four sides of the door, then slit it down the middle so I can fit the tubing over the edges of the glass door. With a little adjusting after you close the door, this extends the door to touch the sides making a seal", blocking out any dust that might drift in to those cracks (after sealing the edges I found that a lot of dust had been entering by those small gaps in the sides). It works pretty good and is clear, too.

Here you can see the plastic tubing as it wraps around the edge of the glass door. It's large enough so that, when the door is closed, it creates a seal where there's a gap between the glass walls of the case and the door.

It's completely cut down on dust entering the case, which was a problem before. And it's basically invisible. This was the first case I did and the tubing was cut a little jagged, but that is easily remedied with more patience than I have. :)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/sb_photos/hobby/3.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/sb_photos/hobby/2.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/sb_photos/hobby/1.jpg

Sean

[dominishin]

What if sunlight is entering your room but not shining on your figures?

[xkage824]

What if sunlight is entering your room but not shining on your figures?

i think this still effects but not as much
light bounces off surfaces and can still get to them
this is why i blocked out the edges of my blinds so that the light bouncing off the wall would not reach the room.
there is still enough light entering the room through small holes but they do not reach my collectibles.

[quiggle]

once you notice the figure starting to break down, what do you do? just leave it, buy a new one, throw it out?

[DiFabio]

You know, when I was younger I used to "seal off" my blinds/shades because I thought the small amounts of sunlight would ruin my collectibles.

But you know how paranoid that is? I'm one messed up OCD mother____er when it comes to these things but even I understand they won't last forever. I keep them as new as I can but I'm not going to resort to letting the figures control the aesthetics of my house.

A little bit of sunlight coming in isn't going to damage anything. That isn't direct sunlight. Now if you had the windows open, had your room facing the direction of the sun with direct sunlight shining into you're room, then yeah, you'd have a problem. Especially fading.

But to close everything off by taping, binding etc.? That's excessive.

In fact. A little sun might be good for the room (not for the figures themselves) unless you want your room to be damp and mushroom infested. I'd rather wake up one day and find that my figures cracked apart then find some weird green living ____ all over them.

[kl241]

Some of you guys sound like John Travolta in "The Boy In The Plastic Bubble." :lol

[LoneWolf]

I have Hot Toys Rambo figures - almost all of 'em muscular rubber bodies - and I never.. NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT DETERIORATION.
I have accepted the fact that these are action figures. They will not last a lifetime, probably not even half.. So I pose them, make dioramas & practice photography by doing so.

I handle them with care once I "play" with them, but when I am done, they are placed back on the shelf and my life goes on. I enjoy this hobby, but at the same time, I know that a lot of things are just more important in life to worry about this. :)

[Corrose]

It seems that part of the problem to me is that a lot of folks "play" with these figures enough to add some initial wear and tear. When I got my Hot Toys Leonidas I posed him in a very basic stance, no stress on the rubber at all, whereas a lot of people posed him in all these poses the paper tells you not to. A lot of pic threads in general for Hot Toys have people undressing the dolls, swapping out the different heads over and over etc. You don't realize but every bend, pull and stress can wear down the material. And this is only a guess but I assume the more you handle these items, the more oil from your hands gets onto the rubber, surely this causes issues long term.

I open mine, choose a pose and to the shelf it goes and I leave it alone.
I got to think that treating it like a high dollar item helps the life of the item.

[quiggle]

It seems that part of the problem to me is that a lot of folks "play" with these figures enough to add some initial wear and tear. When I got my Hot Toys Leonidas I posed him in a very basic stance, no stress on the rubber at all, whereas a lot of people posed him in all these poses the paper tells you not to. A lot of pic threads in general for Hot Toys have people undressing the dolls, swapping out the different heads over and over etc.

I open mine, choose a pose and to the shelf it goes and I leave it alone.
I got to think that treating it like a high dollar item helps the life of the item.

there's still problems with some figures even if they were not handled much like the T-800 a number of peeps here said they just display him as is and the metal pieces of the jacket falls off.

[2ndname]

Figures falling apart as you un-box them is an issue. Figures deteriorating over time is the price we pay for having nice pieces of art displayed out of their respective boxes.

[Tyler]

I have a Hot Toys Robocop, ED-209, Batman Begins, Dark Knight Batman, Iron Man MK III, and a DX02 Batman that used to leak oil.

All of them look as good as new even though they come out of the box the day they arrive and stand on shelves with no protection.

[LoneWolf]

Same here.. My Hot Toys figures are on a shelf with no glass casing surrounding them, just away from sunlight. :lecture

I have a Hot Toys Robocop, ED-209, Batman Begins, Dark Knight Batman, Iron Man MK III, and a DX02 Batman that used to leak oil.

All of them look as good as new even though they come out of the box the day they arrive and stand on shelves with no protection.

[Kamandi]

I built a plexi case because one of my HTs is the Dark Knight and I have an old house (dusty)

But I think I've been inspired to build a UV shielded and pressurized enclosure and fill it with argon gas. I'm also going to add a retina scanner and security camera. Anyone with an unrecognized eye scan will drop into the shark tank.

[preeny101]

My HT Rambo deteriorated. But I think HT have come a long way since then with their muscle bodies. That said, none of them will last forever and other, cooler collectibles will come along to take their place on my shelves.

[YoNoSe]

I built a plexi case because one of my HTs is the Dark Knight and I have an old house (dusty)

But I think I've been inspired to build a UV shielded and pressurized enclosure and fill it with argon gas. I'm also going to add a retina scanner and security camera. Anyone with an unrecognized eye scan will drop into the shark tank.

I tried that but my sharks all dried out and cracked. They could never drive the stupid tank, anyway. :dunno

[Kamandi]

Oh sh--! So how do I keep my sharks from deteriorating?They're next to the window! How long will they last?

[lerath666]

you know, i've heard something about the preservative properties of urine somewhere.

[Kamandi]

It is unwise to pee into a shark tank. :nono

[lerath666]

no no, not for the sharks, for the rubber bodied figures.

here we go, found a youtube video about the preservative properties urine has on rubber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4mrYsE41yE

[KashmirKong]

Talcum powder helps preserve rubber if you don't mind your figures being a little bit dusty.

[Raymond Ferraro]

You guys are asking for trouble with all these silly methods or funky chemical based products you want to apply to them

The answer is simple. Keep them out of sunlight and KEEP THEM NEUTRALLY POSED. that's it. Don't bend the elbows so it creases or pulls ot touches rubber to rubber. Don't force anything. Keep it simple and neutrally posed when you're not playing around with it. Thats all you need to know. Ive never had a problem with neutrally posed figures

[Lejuan]

Talcum powder helps preserve rubber if you don't mind your figures being a little bit dusty.

I tried that on my Michael Jackson Thriller figure, and when I was finished he looked more like the Michael Jackson Bad figure.

[DiFabio]

I tried that on my Michael Jackson Thriller figure, and when I was finished he looked more like the Michael Jackson Bad figure.

Heh JAMON, hehe!

[FlyAndFight]

This reminds me of a friend of mine who had best chef in Europe cook at his house one evening. He wanted to be able to impress his friends with what was cooked, so rather than eat any of it he encased the whole 7-course shebang in clear acrylic. I have to say it all looks fantastic.

This reminds me of a friend of mine who didn't want to see his dog grow old. So he had the dog put down, stuffed it and now has it in the corner next to the fireplace.

He's had that stuffed dog 18 years now, and that dog hasn't aged a day in all that time.


You've got some screwy friends... ;)

[Kamandi]

Not me! I have no friends! I collect comic books!

[quiggle]

those who have the Rocky Hot Toys how is the rubber bodies like, are there any deterioration problems cracking for some o fyou?

[Boba Ben]

A friend of mine has a 12 inch Mego Admiral Kirk from Star Trek the Motionless Picture.

He has kept it packaged since it was released, only taking it out of the box a few times. Despite this, the rubber head has turned green and is tacky to the touch.

So, if you want to keep your collectables nice forever the only solution is to sacrifice a virgin to appease the gods.

Suicide is never the answer.

[karamazov80]

^^ :lol . .

[Geil]

btw I picked up insulating foam strips with adhesive backing and used it to seal off the glass top of my coffee table and will use it to also seal off the side panels I will make someday.
But for all Detolf owners I am thinking the same can be used to seal off the four gaps the door leaves open. If you place it in the right position these strips should help create a decent seal when the door is closed and be barely noticeable yet allow you access to the content when you need to :D

[Firebird]

those who have the Rocky Hot Toys how is the rubber bodies like, are there any deterioration problems cracking for some o fyou?

My Rocky figs are still in great shape. I have them posed with the arms bent and they still feel solid. I have own them since late 2008. I do have them in a display case too.

[quiggle]

My Rocky figs are still in great shape. I have them posed with the arms bent and they still feel solid. I have own them since late 2008. I do have them in a display case too.

thanks Firebird, I'm thinking of purchasing one on Ebay soon and just wanted to see how it's been standing up since released. would like to hear feedback from other members too thanks!

[CyberVillain]

The glass of water and anti humidity bags, those work against eachother do they not? ;)

do what i did if your that worried and seal the detolf shut! i just placed cellotape along the gaps as neat and tidy as i could! it doesnt show up unless up close! i placed a cup of water in the detolf to keep up humidity and also placed a couple of those small hot toys white packages inside that say 'do not eat' as they supposedly suck up any moisture in the air! i cut 1 or 2 small holes in the cellotape to let in a tiny amount of air!

the results of this mean my shelfs take a couple of months for a tiny dust build up to oocur so i dont have to clean them every 3 weeks like when it wasnt sealed!
it also means i cant get to repose them as often as id like!:(

[Tubes78]

This tread got me worried. I'm going to built a nuclear, Dust-and-UV-free bomb shelter and keep all my collectibles in there.........once i get the money...

[Kamandi]

Suicide is never the answer.

Son, your mother and I need to have a talk with you.

:devil

[Balsquat]

My rocky figures are fine too. I used to display my rocky 4 American trunks robe off , but out of fear of detoriation I now use the robe. My figures are mostly second hand and posed in pretty dynamic positions (especially creed) and they are all perfect. Also I own all ofthem minus street clubber. U should not have anything to worry about right now.

[quiggle]

My rocky figures are fine too. I used to display my rocky 4 American trunks robe off , but out of fear of detoriation I now use the robe. My figures are mostly second hand and posed in pretty dynamic positions (especially creed) and they are all perfect. Also I own all ofthem minus street clubber. U should not have anything to worry about right now.

thanks Balsquat looks good so far, I'm just wondering why some figures made after the Rocky like Mars Attacks, Rambo have rubber deterioration but the Rocky is okay, are they the same materials?

[Legion]

I have science,

I can has science 2??/?





:monkey3 :D

[lord-22]

those who have the Rocky Hot Toys how is the rubber bodies like, are there any deterioration problems cracking for some o fyou?

all my rocky figure are find, nothing to report on the rubber body


http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2136.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1395&u=11807667)http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2137.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1396&u=11807667)http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2138.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1397&u=11807667)http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2139.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1398&u=11807667)

[dcflake]

All those Rocky figures still look really good, I thought, then I scrolled down to the Ivan Drago. Where they even trying? I dunno it hasn't aged well.

[quiggle]

all my rocky figure are find, nothing to report on the rubber body


http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2136.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1395&u=11807667)http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2137.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1396&u=11807667)http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2138.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1397&u=11807667)http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/11/80/76/67/img_2139.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1398&u=11807667)

just awesome I am one jealous mutha! do you also have the Rocky IV one, that's the one I'd like to get first in my collection thanks lord!

so how come Rocky ones are fine but others have the rubber deterioration?

[vodoun]

This reminds me of a friend of mine who didn't want to see his dog grow old. So he had the dog put down, stuffed it and now has it in the corner next to the fireplace.

If thats true... then he should have been put down. The dog would have had a nicer life without that clown. Be better of with somebody that would have really appreciated the dog. Such a waste of life.

He's had that stuffed dog 18 years now, and that dog hasn't aged a day in all that time.

Too sarcastic for my liking.

One of the creepiest things to do to a pet... LOL


It's freaking not right!

Hahahahahaha that guy is just awesome!! Amazing! thanks lejuan, this story made my day

Unacceptable.

You've got some screwy friends... ;)

Ain't that the truth.

I thought, then I scrolled down to the Ivan Drago. Where they even trying? I dunno it hasn't aged well.

Those men that dress up as girls? It looks like it's going to blow a kiss. ¬_¬

The Carl Weathers one looks fantastic though.

[darkknight]

Anyone here having problems with their Rambo figures?

[Mesa]

btw I picked up insulating foam strips with adhesive backing and used it to seal off the glass top of my coffee table and will use it to also seal off the side panels I will make someday.
But for all Detolf owners I am thinking the same can be used to seal off the four gaps the door leaves open. If you place it in the right position these strips should help create a decent seal when the door is closed and be barely noticeable yet allow you access to the content when you need to :D

I've heard of this done before. You can get weatherstipping and put it around cabinet doors and place it so it is hidden well. I'm surprised at how much dust can get into a "sealed" curio; some are worse than others.

[joefan10]

For the dust issue, Ive been thinking of buying one of those Air Purifiers...Dont know how much of the actual dust it will take care of, but cant hurt...

As for plastics and rubber parts and whatnot deteriorating over time...Well, look at the old GI Joe figures from the early 70's...Granted, they are made of plastic, not rubber...But they do have rubber parts inside for the joints...And glued on fuzzy hair...And most of these things have gotten played with, passed around, thrown in boxes, etc., etc...And while some have shown signs of wear and tear, others have survived very well...I have a few that damn near look brand new to this day...And they werent kept in boxes their whole lives...Or sealed in cases...

So, while the rubber body argument may still be under scrutiny, I agree with what was said earlier...Dont freak over your figures...Enjoy them...Because it's true, if you stress over all thats been said here too much, you will live to hate this hobby....

Matt

[CHUYHA85]

A good solution like they said is dont pose them on many dynamic poses, keep them on the display cabinets or the boxes and thats it, I have 3 rubber figures and the Ed209, the both rockys are ok, as well as batman begins oc, and the only onde deteriorateing is Ed209, but not that much!!

[joefan10]

Another "rubber" example I have is, again, from the old 70's GI Joe....If anyone remembers the Training Tower that came out back then, it came with a large, rubber snake...I have one of those snakes and it is fine...No melt marks...Hasnt deteriorated...and its been around for almost 40 yrs...And Im sure, in that time, it got played with and moved around from one place to another....

Matt

[Lejuan]

If thats true... then he should have been put down. The dog would have had a nicer life without that clown. Be better of with somebody that would have really appreciated the dog. Such a waste of life.



Too sarcastic for my liking.



It's freaking not right!



Unacceptable.



Ain't that the truth.



Those men that dress up as girls? It looks like it's going to blow a kiss. ¬_¬

The Carl Weathers one looks fantastic though.

You're kidding...

[siquisiri]

I opened up this thread becasue there are MANY new HT figs on the horizon that many of us are gonna put down big bucks on in the next few months.

While many of us followed the "oil issue" in HT's Dark Knight figures, I had hoped this was an isolated incident, but I have just seen a few new threads on how the rubber parts from the Watchman Comedian and the Alien Dallas figures are beginning to deteriorate and fall apart. I am appalled that a company like HT can let down its fans in such a way. These are expensive collectors items and we deserve better.

I dont mean to instigate a fight, its just that as a 1/6 collector, i REALLY want to know if HT will continue to go down this path, or fix these issues. I for one am now VERY weary of picking up HT figs beacause of what might happen to them in a few short years. Which is a shame beacause theyre products are incredible.:monkey2

[JAROTO]

Im with you my friend I just got a deal for a Leonidas...Im afraid it may deteriorate in a near future. HT should fix this in future releases.

[siquisiri]

Im with you my friend I just got a deal for a Leonidas...Im afraid it may deteriorate in a near future. HT should fix this in future releases.

I agree. while some dont like it, the Alien big chap is one of my favorites and I would hate to see it falling apart in a 2-3 years

[xjamiex]

I think I speak for myself and everybody else on this board that it is unacceptable and you are exactly correct. For the amount of money that we are putting down on these figures, we deserve top quality products that aren't a short-term investment.

Personally, I own a Dutch, Demon Batman and two King Leonidas' in regards to rubber bodies and these are some of my grails..words wouldn't be able to describe how I'd feel if they were destroyed in only a few years time.

[Mr. EcKo]

Well i aggree with you on that one , whats the F%$KING point of buying figures that have Issues with the rubber if they're just gunna break down in a few years . Its just a waste of Money IMO , but ya know what we will still keep buying them cuz there ain't no cure for the disease we all have - PLASTIC CRACK ADDICTION

[BB&WSF]

Well i aggree with you on that one , whats the F%$KING point of buying figures that have Issues with the rubber if they're just gunna break down in a few years . Its just a waste of Money IMO , but ya know what we will still keep buying them cuz there ain't no cure for the disease we all have - PLASTIC CRACK ADDICTION


Given what has started happening with HT figures now, I'll soon be changing my addiction back to the dear old Porcelain crack. Boy! Is this waste of your hard earned money! Is this what you get in a few days for a $200 worth figure? Its a shame! Don't know if our voices will be heard, but I hope it sure does...

On second thoughts, would the 'melting' thing happen to only those figures which are not displayed in a temprature controlled environment? Or it doesn't matter..

[karamazov80]

No more rubber suits HT. Thanks.

[Lejuan]

Deterioration of rubber components is a bummer for sure, but isn't the alternative that Hot Toys stops trying to innovate with materials and technology altogether? Don't they have to at least try to explore the possibilities afforded by different materials?

I think it is unreasonable for consumers on the one hand to be demanding constant improvements with these figures, only to complain when one or two things don't turn out well.

I must be one of the few people who thinks that these things don't actually cost a lot of money considering what we get in most cases: beautifully crafted and sculpted figures, great tailoring, cool accessories and appealing boxes.

I think Hot Toys collectors have been spoiled. I'm not saying they can't improve, but improving seems to be exactly what they are doing with each and every release. Aren't they?

[The Craw]

http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82683&highlight=rubber

[karamazov80]

Deterioration of rubber components is a bummer for sure, but isn't the alternative that Hot Toys stops trying to innovate with materials and technology altogether? Don't they have to at least try to explore the possibilities afforded by different materials?
Quite the opposite, since rubber has been used so much in the past, doesn't a move toward something other than rubber actually constitute innovation? The flexible PVC torso covers are a reflection of this. As is the joints in conjunction with rubber arms in the past to reduce the incidence of ripped joints, and a move toward sculpted muscles (a la Bruce Lee and the T1 T-800).

I think they have made great strides, and I'm crossing fingers that the Green Lantern won't be a huge step backward using rubber.

[Boba Ben]

I've come to accept the fact that my Hot Toys Alien figures will crumble away at some point in my life. I'll just enjoy them for now.

[karamazov80]

I prefer to spend my time constantly worrying about them--taking years off my life due to the stress.

[small_studios]

I don't see the reason HT keeps putting rubber parts on their figure bodies. They can cast them up in a harder plastic similar to the muscle body's arms and it would last much much longer. The only thing is you will lose the neck articulation which i could careless about. Not sure how they could handle it for the full suits but for me personally i dont need my figure to have rubber feeling skin.

[Wor-Gar]

One word: Urethane.

[Lejuan]

Quite the opposite, since rubber has been used so much in the past, doesn't a move toward something other than rubber actually constitute innovation? The flexible PVC torso covers are a reflection of this. As is the joints in conjunction with rubber arms in the past to reduce the incidence of ripped joints, and a move toward sculpted muscles (a la Bruce Lee and the T1 T-800).

I think they have made great strides, and I'm crossing fingers that the Green Lantern won't be a huge step backward using rubber.

We're saying the same thing I think? My point was that HT is constantly trying new things, and in hindsight, some of those things didn't turn out as well as they'd hoped. I doubt we would've seen the innovations you mentioned without them first having made a few mistakes along the way.

As a bit of a Bruce Lee fan, I'm interested in how they'll treat their apparently seamless BL body.

[Reaktwon]

Proof people, proof. A few people with problems doesn't prove anything. I would like to see more than one photo of various Hot Toys figures falling apart and crumbling away. The DX Batman did have some issues with the suit leaking baby oil, but not all of them, and as for the rest . . . there are no photos or verifiable patterns of any problems of the rubber degrading. Even if a few people come forward with reports and PHOTOS of damaged parts, that still doesn't mean it has anything to do with the rubber Hot Toys have used or the manufacturing process. Who really knows what sort of conditions people expose their figures to. HT makes a few thousand of each figure, and we would have HUNDRED, if not THOUSANDS of reports and PHOTOS flooding in about these problems with figures. You would have to be stupid to believe that these figures are going to fall apart on you because a few people are say it will. Don't worry about it.

[siquisiri]

Proof people, proof. A few people with problems doesn't prove anything. I would like to see more than one photo of various Hot Toys figures falling apart and crumbling away. The DX Batman did have some issues with the suit leaking baby oil, but not all of them, and as for the rest . . . there are no photos or verifiable patterns of any problems of the rubber degrading. Even if a few people come forward with reports and PHOTOS of damaged parts, that still doesn't mean it has anything to do with the rubber Hot Toys have used or the manufacturing process. Who really knows what sort of conditions people expose their figures to. HT makes a few thousand of each figure, and we would have HUNDRED, if not THOUSANDS of reports and PHOTOS flooding in about these problems with figures. You would have to be stupid to believe that these figures are going to fall apart on you because a few people are say it will. Don't worry about it.

No one is stupid on this board, were just having a civil discussion. This isnt meant to bash HT only so we can discuss what is unfortunatly becoming an issue with HT products as the years pass.

[Lejuan]

YouTube - ‪Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy‬‏

[Guinnessfan]

I love HT. I think a lot of us here do. But something should be said about QC and CS. As Lejuan pointed out we do get a lot for what we have spent you can tell that, but it is frustrating to think that it could fall apart in the future. Every company looks to make money and and they look for ways to save on cost. This leads me to believe that sometimes cheaper alternatives will be used to deliver the final product. Why are my Hans Landa hands stained? My T2 Arnold's hands are fine. The same faux leather, or leather seems to be used in both, so what happened, why the staining? As far as the TDK issue, I bought one on ebay and the seller claimed that out of the lot that he had sold only 1 had the oil problem...well mine must have been #2. I tried to have HT fix the situation, but they wouldnt replace the body for me. I still love HT and think their overall product is amazing, im not trying to flame, but these issues exist and one would hope that there could be resolution in the end.

[El Skutto]

Proof people, proof. A few people with problems doesn't prove anything. I would like to see more than one photo of various Hot Toys figures falling apart and crumbling away. The DX Batman did have some issues with the suit leaking baby oil, but not all of them, and as for the rest . . . there are no photos or verifiable patterns of any problems of the rubber degrading. Even if a few people come forward with reports and PHOTOS of damaged parts, that still doesn't mean it has anything to do with the rubber Hot Toys have used or the manufacturing process. Who really knows what sort of conditions people expose their figures to. HT makes a few thousand of each figure, and we would have HUNDRED, if not THOUSANDS of reports and PHOTOS flooding in about these problems with figures. You would have to be stupid to believe that these figures are going to fall apart on you because a few people are say it will. Don't worry about it.

The proof is in the chemistry. Like it or not; believe it or not, but all rubber deteriorates. Just because every person who's had problems hasn't posted on this particular website, don't for a second assume that means the problem isn't widespread.

[Kamandi]

Proof would be ed-209. The upper dome was rubber stretched over a plastic form. The rubber has rotted on many of these to the point you can find people selling resin replacement domes.

All rubber deteriorates and shrinks eventually.

[Rorywan]

Proof people, proof. A few people with problems doesn't prove anything. I would like to see more than one photo of various Hot Toys figures falling apart and crumbling away. The DX Batman did have some issues with the suit leaking baby oil, but not all of them, and as for the rest . . . there are no photos or verifiable patterns of any problems of the rubber degrading. Even if a few people come forward with reports and PHOTOS of damaged parts, that still doesn't mean it has anything to do with the rubber Hot Toys have used or the manufacturing process. Who really knows what sort of conditions people expose their figures to. HT makes a few thousand of each figure, and we would have HUNDRED, if not THOUSANDS of reports and PHOTOS flooding in about these problems with figures. You would have to be stupid to believe that these figures are going to fall apart on you because a few people are say it will. Don't worry about it.


Are you trolling or seriously trying to be offensive?
I suggest you go and read the Batman DX02 residue thread, or the Mars Attacks thread or the Rocky thread, the Robocop thread, Watchman thread etc.
There were so many Bats sent back to HT that they stopped replacing them. The Mars Attacks figures elbows have cracked when left untouched for a few months.
What kind of proof do you need? Everyone to send you their rotting toys?

Yeah, there are no problems at all with rubber bodies. Happy collecting, bye bye now.:slap

[cplhicks]

The Comedian figures are starting to leak now.

Soon they will rot too.

I love my Comedian figure:monkey2

[Bloodsport]

The proof is in the chemistry. Like it or not; believe it or not, but all rubber deteriorates. Just because every person who's had problems hasn't posted on this particular website, don't for a second assume that means the problem isn't widespread.

Take a look at this

[siquisiri]

I wonder if the sculpts will also deteriorate? The HT sculpts seem to have a rubber type covering. Noooooo my Godfather!!!

[BB&WSF]

This whole rubber / oil / body thing is quite confusing. So, can anybody help with making it clear which are the 'rubber' figures from HT. I know that the DX Bats and (now) Comedian is. What about Thor? Most of all, what's the strange need of having oil in a body which already has 32/35 points of articulation? I understand DX Bats being body and suit with oil in between, but what's up with the other figures?

[lerath666]

the oil is part of the rubber. it's what keeps the rubber from drying out and rotting apart.

it is GOING to evaporate, or leak out, slowly over time. as this happens the rubber will start to get brittle. this IS GOING TO HAPPEN, PERIOD. on most of the figures, this happens slowly. on DX batman, for some reason, it happened very quickly.

Any figure not on a truetype body from hot toys has SOME rubber parts. on the t-800, wolverine, percious bodies, it's JUST the upper torso above the stomach.

on the dutch body, it's the entire torso and arms.

on the billy body, it's the same, more or less.


Hope that helps.

the short version is: Muscle bodies and rubber suits suck, and HT NEEDS to stop using them ,.

[BB&WSF]

the oil is part of the rubber. it's what keeps the rubber from drying out and rotting apart.

it is GOING to evaporate, or leak out, slowly over time. as this happens the rubber will start to get brittle. this IS GOING TO HAPPEN, PERIOD. on most of the figures, this happens slowly. on DX batman, for some reason, it happened very quickly.

Any figure not on a truetype body from hot toys has SOME rubber parts. on the t-800, wolverine, percious bodies, it's JUST the upper torso above the stomach.

on the dutch body, it's the entire torso and arms.

on the billy body, it's the same, more or less.


Hope that helps.

the short version is: Muscle bodies and rubber suits suck, and HT NEEDS to stop using them ,.

Thanks for the info. Got a better understanding now. Just POed DX06 Jack Sparrow; hope it does not have this issue, else it'll be awfully messy! :horror

[thenammagazine]

This whole rubber / oil / body thing is quite confusing. So, can anybody help with making it clear which are the 'rubber' figures from HT. I know that the DX Bats and (now) Comedian is. What about Thor? Most of all, what's the strange need of having oil in a body which already has 32/35 points of articulation? I understand DX Bats being body and suit with oil in between, but what's up with the other figures?

I think there's a bit of confusion.

The rubber bodies break and crack from dust, stress, etc. Posing the elbows too far causes undue stress on the joint which causes the suit itself to crack and break. Rambo II, Sarah Connor, etc., are examples of this. Unfortunately, THIS IS THE NATURE OF RUBBER and those who want this level of realism just need to accept this. Thankfully, HT has moved away from this with cleverly hidden sculpted joints and PVC torso pieces to cover neck and abdominal articulation.

The suits are another story entirely. The process HT uses to make the rubber suits is flawed. They aren't cured long enough and the chemicals used to make the rubber, begin to break down and deteriorate. This causes the suit to fall apart. Wiping it away causes the suit to dry out. Leaving it causes the suit to become over-saturated in the leaky areas giving sculpted details a "melted" effect. It was first noticed with the DX02 and currently is an issue with the Comedian. Thor owners should be worried as well.

[Reaktwon]

Anyone with even a basic science degree in this thread? I'm not denying that there is the potential for problems under the right conditions, but, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to have photos and verifiable reports from people that are experiencing problems, and more than half a dozen. The onus is on you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it's Hot Toys or whoever's fault. Talk is cheap, you need to PROVE that there actually is a defect that will affect everyone that has purchased a specific figure.

A good chunk of people that purchase these types of figures are on this forum, but, there just aren't enough people coming forward with verifiable information. There is more talk than cold hard facts. I'll take the issue more seriously when an avalanche of people come forward all expressing and showing photos of damage, that IS proof that there is a genuine problem that isn't related to abuse of some kind or other. I'm not making any specific accusations against anyone, but there has to be more proof. With indisputable proof you CAN get Sideshow and Hot Toy (and other distributors) to do a recall and refund your money.

If 'rubber' is something that worries you: If you can't afford to lose the money you are spending on collectable, then you really shouldn't be spending the money on them in the first place. I enjoy the figures for what they are and am not overly concerned that anything bad will happen to them. I have a larger collection of statues and even they will probably deteriorate somewhat over time. Just don't buy this stuff if it worries you that much, because nothing in this price range is really designed to lasts forever, that's just a fact of life.

Nobody will listen or take you seriously if you can't get organized and provide enough VERIFIABLE evidence to support the accusations.

[thenammagazine]

Anyone with even a basic science degree in this thread? I'm not denying that there is the potential for problems under the right conditions, but, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to have photos and verifiable reports from people that are experiencing problems, and more than half a dozen. The onus is on you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it's Hot Toys or whoever's fault. Talk is cheap, you need to PROVE that there actually is a defect that will affect everyone that has purchased a specific figure.

A good chunk of people that purchase these types of figures are on this forum, but, there just aren't enough people coming forward with verifiable information. There is more talk than cold hard facts. I'll take the issue more seriously when an avalanche of people come forward all expressing and showing photos of damage, that IS proof that there is a genuine problem that isn't related to abuse of some kind or other. I'm not making any specific accusations against anyone, but there has to be more proof. With indisputable proof you CAN get Sideshow and Hot Toy (and other distributors) to do a recall and refund your money.

If 'rubber' is something that worries you: If you can't afford to lose the money you are spending on collectable, then you really shouldn't be spending the money on them in the first place. I enjoy the figures for what they are and am not overly concerned that anything bad will happen to them. I have a larger collection of statues and even they will probably deteriorate somewhat over time. Just don't buy this stuff if it worries you that much, because nothing in this price range is really designed to lasts forever, that's just a fact of life.

Nobody will listen or take you seriously if you can't get organized and provide enough VERIFIABLE evidence to support the accusations.

:wave While I'm certain HT appreciates the pole squatting, not only have they acknowledged the problem, but they've replaced several figures with these issues and assured DCD (untruthfully) that they had been fixed for the DCD run of the DX02. Nobody's taking you seriously. The problem has been well documented (a simple websearch would've provided thousands of hits on the topic). Maybe you should do a little "scientific research" so you at least have a clue about what you're discussing. :wink1:

[Reaktwon]

I have searched and I find very little verifiable evidence, no photos. Even Judge Judy would throw it out in a heartbeat. Nothing in the Sarah Connor thread, or the Mars Attacks. Nothing on other forums, except for the same people that are posting here, for the most part. So, what are you talking about. :cuckoo: But, I guess you would rather we spend out money on air soft, huh?

[Legendary Hunter]

Proof people, proof. A few people with problems doesn't prove anything. I would like to see more than one photo of various Hot Toys figures falling apart and crumbling away. The DX Batman did have some issues with the suit leaking baby oil, but not all of them, and as for the rest . . . there are no photos or verifiable patterns of any problems of the rubber degrading. Even if a few people come forward with reports and PHOTOS of damaged parts, that still doesn't mean it has anything to do with the rubber Hot Toys have used or the manufacturing process. Who really knows what sort of conditions people expose their figures to. HT makes a few thousand of each figure, and we would have HUNDRED, if not THOUSANDS of reports and PHOTOS flooding in about these problems with figures. You would have to be stupid to believe that these figures are going to fall apart on you because a few people are say it will. Don't worry about it.

:lecture I guess you can call me stupid then because both my RE Chris & Sheva have rubber cracked elbows. I knew it would happen sooner or later and I'm willing to accept it rather than whine about it. But I guess I should have nothing to worry about because YOU know what' you're talking about :clap

[Reaktwon]

Post some photos and WE can start to build a case that proves something!

[Legendary Hunter]

Post some photos and WE can start to build a case.

Go check the RE threads yourself and see the photos that others have posted.

[Reaktwon]

I though so. :slap:slap:slap

[thenammagazine]

I though so. :slap:slap:slap

So you defend your position with laziness? Do a web search for "DX02 leaking" and see for yourself. Or head to the Comedian thread in the DC section and check out the last 10 pages. While you're in the DC boards, do a search for "Is your DX02 Leaking?" and check out the thread with hundreds of pics and thousands of posts. OR, keep doing nothing and defend your poll squatting ignorance with more:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/pejidapimp/035ostrich-head-in-sand_468x538.jpg

[Kamandi]

@Reaktwon - you sound preatty hostile considering there's numerous people on this site who had problems with the DX02 Batman. Here's a few pics. There's more in the thread if you keep going.

http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2313448&postcount=45
http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2314303&postcount=55
http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2324871&postcount=116

[Legendary Hunter]

I though so. :slap:slap:slap

You thought right then, because I'm not wasting my time to prove a point to you when it's clearly in front of you but you refuse to accept it. So do us all a favor and keep slapping yourself all the way off the boards :clap

[Reaktwon]

What case?

http://www.dvdverdict.com/images/reviewpics/judgejudy02.jpg

[siquisiri]

R,
There are quite a few threads on HT rubber issues. You seem VERY upset and uniformed over an issue that many 1/6 collectors are quite familiar with. Those posting here are obviously familar with the issues and if you are not, do a quick search to become informed.

[siquisiri]

here is a link to one 1/6 collectors latest problems with his Comedian figure...

http://hottoys-comedian-oil.blogspot.com/

[Kamandi]

More spoon-feeding:
http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3548084&postcount=1101

[Reaktwon]

Why should I be upset if i don't have any problems? It's going to take more than a few people to prove that Sideshow or Hot Toys have a problem with their products. We need more photos and evidence, something that is sorely lacking from the argument. Why hasn't sideshow and all the other manufacturers gone out of business if it affects all of us. :slap People will complain and show photos if it's such a widespread problem, you can bank on it.

[Legendary Hunter]

Anyways, after my elbows cracked on my RE figures, I decided to dispaly them with their arms down instead of "posing" to relieve the stress on the joints. I remember another freak here posting a picture of his Sheva with the elbows so badly damaged it looked like Jaws attacked her!

[Kamandi]

Whatever. Some people believe the world is 6000 years old. There's nothing that will change their minds.

[Lejuan]

Reaktwon, props to you for debating the same argument in two threads simultaneously.

Personally I am not fussed about deterioration either, it'd spoil the reason why I collect these figures in the first place.

But... even though I've only been collecting for a bit over a year, still newb status, I've done enough reading of these threads to know that folks are having problems with a number of figures doing exactly what most people here are debating you on. Just because the majority may not be posting pics as evidence, I don't really believe that folks are getting their rocks off by fibbing about their dollies.

[siquisiri]

Ill start with these two, lets make a list...

Hot Toys - MMS DX 02 - TDK- BATMAN
Hot Toys -MMS 115 -WATCHMEN - The Comedian

[Legendary Hunter]

fibbing about their dollies.

Dollies? GTFO!! :nana: j/k :hi5:

[Reaktwon]

Reaktwon, props to you for debating the same argument in two threads simultaneously.

Personally I am not fussed about deterioration either, it'd spoil the reason why I collect these figures in the first place.

But... even though I've only been collecting for a bit over a year, still newb status, I've done enough reading of these threads to know that folks are having problems with a number of figures doing exactly what most people here are debating you on. Just because the majority may not be posting pics as evidence, I don't really believe that folks are getting their rocks off by fibbing about their dollies.

Hey, I'm not denying that there can be potential problems with these figure, we just need to get our ____ together if that is the case. If we can all expect our figures to rapidly deteriorate, then we need to build a solid case and get on Sideshow and the companies that are releasing defective products. We need to take names and verify the problems with detailed photos, so, that we have enough evidence to make a watertight case for a recall and refund. I don't have any problems with any of mine at the moment, but, if there truly is a problem related to the materials being used, we need to deal with it in the right way.

[thenammagazine]

Hey, I'm not denying that there can be potential problems with these figure, we just need to get our ____ together if that is the case. If we can all expect our figures to rapidly deteriorate, then we need to build a solid case and get on Sideshow and the companies that are releasing defective products. We need to take names and verify the problems with detailed photos, so, that we have enough evidence to make a watertight case for a recall and refund. I don't have any problems with any of mine at the moment, but, if there truly is a problem related to the materials being used, we need to deal with it in the right way.

You're about six months behind on that. There've already been organized reports on HT's Facebook page with pics of leaks on the DX02, which spawned Milk to get involved and resulted in HT issuing replacements after customers jumped through ridiculous hoops. HT's turned down any chance of the same with the Comedian due to how long ago he was released. But if you weren't lazy, and took the time to investigate it before talking out your ***, you'd already know this. :huh

[Boba Ben]

If Hot Toys was ever going to recall a figure that was pretty much universally defective, I wouldn't have two Aliens Warriors with broken ankles right now. QC on that figure was horrible and they didn't do anything about the issues people had with them.

[Reaktwon]

How many rubber component figures are out there? How many have problems? How many people are complaining? Lets find out.

[Lejuan]

Hey, I'm not denying that there can be potential problems with these figure, we just need to get our ____ together if that is the case. If we can all expect our figures to rapidly deteriorate, then we need to build a solid case and get on Sideshow and the companies that are releasing defective products. We need to take names and verify the problems with detailed photos, so, that we have enough evidence to make a watertight case for a recall and refund. I don't have any problems with any of mine at the moment, but, if there truly is a problem related to the materials being used, we need to deal with it in the right way.

Your posts did suggest that you didn't think there was as widespread a problem with rubber deterioration as people made out. But if you're saying that putting together a dossier of evidence would be a way to hold companies to account, I'm not sure that's realistic as it seems to me that the chances of a recall or refund on purchases are zero - HT didn't yield over the DX Bats debacle and in that case there was an overwhelming demand from collectors that they make things right.

The problem with doing as you suggest is that rubber-deterioration takes time. By the time a figure starts to break down, the horse has already bolted and even if HT wanted to, they wouldn't be able to re-release figures or replace faulty parts. And they are not at all obliged to provide a refund outside of their nominated replacement period. All warranties work this way to an extent.

Me personally, I hold to the view that any manufacturer worth their salt is driven as much by pride and integrity in their products as they are by good old fashion profit. HT are leading innovators, and innovation comes with risks. I think they recognise the issues with past figures and seek to rectify the issues with how they develop subsequent figures, rather than retrospectively fix things via refunds and re-releases.

[Unclechopchop]

I just wish that they would use better quality on some of their parts, and this issue wouldn't be a problem. If they use junk to save money, then it will be junk that eventually breaks down. Maximizing their dollar is what they are after first, what you think comes second. I ditched my HT Batman Begins Batman because I was worried about having it split on me, rendering it useless eventually.

[Reaktwon]

Your posts did suggest that you didn't think there was as widespread a problem with rubber deterioration as people made out. But if you're saying that putting together a dossier of evidence would be a way to hold companies to account, I'm not sure that's realistic as it seems to me that the chances of a recall or refund on purchases are zero - HT didn't yield over the DX Bats debacle and in that case there was an overwhelming demand from collectors that they make things right.

The problem with doing as you suggest is that rubber-deterioration takes time. By the time a figure starts to break down, the horse has already bolted and even if HT wanted to, they wouldn't be able to re-release figures or replace faulty parts. And they are not at all obliged to provide a refund outside of their nominated replacement period. All warranties work this way to an extent.

Me personally, I hold to the view that any manufacturer worth their salt is driven as much by pride and integrity in their products as they are by good old fashion profit. HT are leading innovators, and innovation comes with risks. I think they recognise the issues with past figures and seek to rectify the issues with how they develop subsequent figures, rather than retrospectively fix things via refunds and re-releases.

Well, I'm not really sure how the few can speak for the majority with regards to a figures problems. And I don't honestly believe that Sideshow and Hot Toys (or any other company) would risk destroying their loyal customer base, just so they could cover their asses with such and obvious problem, if that were the case.

These companies are in it for the long haul and any major production problems would destroy their credibility and reputation. The tone of conversation from some is more along the lines of it is happening, rather than, do you think it might happen?

All I'm reading so far is that IT IS happening and we should all panic and get mad about it, and why don't they change things. But, it's still a case of only a handful of people who are reporting damage (without any photos, in most cases) and not hundred/thousands of people reporting that there is actually something to be genuinely worried about, as you would reasonably expect.

All my figures are still perfect and I'm obviously not in the minority, or, this thread and forum would be flooded with photos and reports of problems.

[fosing]

Whatever. Some people believe the world is 6000 years old. There's nothing that will change their minds.

Apologists...even Hot Toys has them.:lol:rotfl

[siquisiri]

To me the DX Batman left a very bad taste in mouth. Even AFTER, they called the callback oo some of the figures, the last batch STILL leaked! And even AFTER people heard of the problem, they STILL kept snatching them up!

[Reaktwon]

We need to hate Hot Toys. The world needs more hate!

[Kamandi]

I don't hate HT. But there's no point in someone telling you there's a problem on some rubber suits and you going "NO NO NO!!! (fingers in ears)"

I have Superman on pre-order. I hope it doesn't share the problems some of their previous figs because an oil leak would really be easy to see on that blue cloth suit.

[fosing]

res ipsa loquitor. the thing speaks for itself.
rubber deteriorates overtime, that's what rubber does. that didnt stop me from buying HT alien figs despite that fact.

putting figures aside, anybody bought those fancy G-Shock watches...i remember mine crumbled after 3 years, the rubber casing and strap. :lol

[a-dev]

I don't hate HT.

Thou must not sprout a single 'negative' word...else it be construed as 'hate'. There is no middle ground unless its his negative opinion, then its OK. :monkey1

[Kamandi]

res ipsa loquitor. the thing speaks for itself.

Nihil est perpetuum

Thou must not sprout a single 'negative' word...else it be construed as 'hate'. There is no middle ground unless its his negative opinion, then its OK. :monkey1

Works in politics.

[fosing]

Nihil est perpetuum


:exactly::lecture

[dcflake]

Nihil est perpetuum


Rem acu tetigisti!

[Guinnessfan]

I guess I made up the fact my HT batman was leaking and HT refused to replace it before they stopped making them. I had to contact the seller, get a copy of the receipt, send HT Pics and a copy of the receipt only to be told that I'm not getting my body replaced. Therefore spending another 180 at BBTS on a replacement which had totally different material on the abs which is confirmation that they new a problem exists. I guess if i presented this to Judge Judy she'd still side with HT.

[siquisiri]

Look over in the DC forum and COmedian Thread. Its Batman dx all OVER AGAIN. Shame on you HT!!!!

[Kamandi]

I wonder what they changed in the Batman DX that they felt required oil. I have a Batman DK MMS and I've never seen any oil. (I also don't pose it very often and I never take the belt off)

[thenammagazine]

I wonder what they changed in the Batman DX that they felt required oil. I have a Batman DK MMS and I've never seen any oil. (I also don't pose it very often and I never take the belt off)

They changed the process for making the rubber suits.

[siquisiri]

Now issues with the Space Suit from Alien Nostromo Kane figure...


http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96025

[tinister]

HT should start using the rubber material that Medicom has started to use in the past couple years. I was customizing the most recent Medicom TDK a couple years ago and had the rubber suit off of the body. My cat carried it away and and hid it out on my balcony behind some plants. I gave up looking for it cause I didn't think it was outside. It sat on the balcony in water and sun, cold and heat for almost a year until I found it while rearranging my balcony furniture. Washed it off and it was like new.

[koipond]

http://yewknee.com/_img/blog/cat_batman_lrg.jpg

[siquisiri]

HT should start using the rubber material that Medicom has started to use in the past couple years. I was customizing the most recent Medicom TDK a couple years ago and had the rubber suit off of the body. My cat carried it away and and hid it out on my balcony behind some plants. I gave up looking for it cause I didn't think it was outside. It sat on the balcony in water and sun, cold and heat for almost a year until I found it while rearranging my balcony furniture. Washed it off and it was like new.

WOW! ..........

[a-dev]

http://yewknee.com/_img/blog/cat_batman_lrg.jpg

Ah the lovechild of Batman and catwoman. ^thats pretty funny.

[Scarlet]

love how it was having its private time licking its ..... violated. lol

[dcflake]

I have an old matchbox car with rubber tyres. It's dated 1975 and has sat in a leaky garage for over 30 years. All my old ZX spectrum tapes where in there and they got ruined (as did the machine itself) due to the rain and damp getting in. The tyres are still springly and sumple however the paint is starting to peel. The rubber on that car lasted longer than the paint! You leave HT figures on a shelf for a few months and they start to leak and tear. The car probably cost me 99p back in the 80's or whenever I got it.

[Guinnessfan]

http://yewknee.com/_img/blog/cat_batman_lrg.jpg

thats awesome

[thenammagazine]

HT should start using the rubber material that Medicom has started to use in the past couple years. I was customizing the most recent Medicom TDK a couple years ago and had the rubber suit off of the body. My cat carried it away and and hid it out on my balcony behind some plants. I gave up looking for it cause I didn't think it was outside. It sat on the balcony in water and sun, cold and heat for almost a year until I found it while rearranging my balcony furniture. Washed it off and it was like new.

Cool story bro. Tell that to the DBZ fans who dealt with Medi's crumbling rubber bodies these past couple years. :monkey1

[tinister]

Cool story bro. Tell that to the DBZ fans who dealt with Medi's crumbling rubber bodies these past couple years. :monkey1

I think DBZ figures came out before Medicom started using this new rubber material. At least a year before if I remember right.

I actually posted about the new rubber suit on the TDK figure when it first came out - how it felt much sturdier than the suit on the first Medicom Batman Begins figure.

[thenammagazine]

I just think the industry as a whole needs to move away from rubber. In a world of increasing costs, cutting corners, especially on rubber, is resulting in QC issues left and right.

[Kamandi]

None of us like ugly joints. What are the alternatives to silicone and rubber? A cloth suit with plastic panels wouldn't have looked right on Batman.

[Guinnessfan]

None of us like ugly joints. What are the alternatives to silicone and rubber? A cloth suit with plastic panels wouldn't have looked right on Batman.

Don't know what the alternatives could be, but after seeing the comedian thread, and my own experience with TDK, I'd think twice about buying a full rubber suited body again especially with the lousy CS at HT.

[siquisiri]

The alternative is easy. Dont buy theyre crappy product, at least the ones that might have rubber issues... i mean, im sorry but its true..no matter how good it looks, in the end its a crap product. I know they read the boards so i hope they read this. There is absolutley no excuse for producing a $150+ collectible figure that has a shelf life of 3-5 years. And to the ht fans, please,dont be apologists for them! If ht sees youll take it on the chin 1-3 times because you' d rather have a crappy oily, cracking figure than non at at, they will NEVER Fix theyre qc issues..

[thenammagazine]

None of us like ugly joints. What are the alternatives to silicone and rubber? A cloth suit with plastic panels wouldn't have looked right on Batman.

Don't lump me in with that close-minded crap! :mad: I'm perfectly content with joints on action figures. :nana::lol

I think if they find ways to sculpt it into the bodies and use PVC in place of rubber, like they did with Bruce, Barney, etc., that's a nice middle ground given the joints are hidden and we don't have to worry about rotting issues.

[Boba Ben]

It'd be cool if they'd release muscle bodies with the improvements that we've seen like the pvc bodies and jointed arms on muscle bodies with figures like Barney Ross, Bruce Lee, etc. I'd like to transfer figures like Dutch and Chris Redfield to new bodies if they start to fall apart in the future.

[Kamandi]

Don't lump me in with that close-minded crap! :mad: I'm perfectly content with joints on action figures. :nana::lol

Correction: Thenam likes joints. :monkey3

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4306/bobmarleyringtones.jpg (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/bobmarleyringtones.jpg/)

[Raven6]

I was just thnking, what if you used a little Armour All on the rubber parts every now and then? I was just also thinking about the leaking TDK figure, what if that leaking oil was something used to keep the rubber from cracking, I don't know.

Anyway, by the time your bodies start cracking (if you've taken good care of them) there might be something hopefully better.

[Guinnessfan]

I think if they find ways to sculpt it into the bodies and use PVC in place of rubber, like they did with Bruce, Barney, etc., that's a nice middle ground given the joints are hidden and we don't have to worry about rotting issues.

+1 :exactly::goodpost:

[Raymond Ferraro]

I hate joints they look horrible. But I hate leaks even more. Hot Toys just has to find a better solution because I want my cake and I want to eat it too and for what they charge me I deserve seconds dammit.

[ebor]

@ Raven... use Armour-All at your peril.

Keep in dust free environ., limited handling, do not expose to any light...refrigerate if possible, uhm don't stare at for too long...

what the hell is it exactly that we're purchasing? expensive toys meant for futzing and posing.

[thenammagazine]

Correction: Thenam likes joints. :monkey3

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4306/bobmarleyringtones.jpg (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/bobmarleyringtones.jpg/)

Let's put it this way. I don't smoke now, but I wouldn't be able to be president. :wink1:

@ Raven... use Armour-All at your peril.

Keep in dust free environ., limited handling, do not expose to any light...refrigerate if possible, uhm don't stare at for too long...

what the hell is it exactly that we're purchasing? expensive toys meant for futzing and posing.

:lol There was just some dude yesterday in the Comedian thread claiming Armor All was the fix-all, cure-all for the newly discovered leaking issue with Comedian. :lol:rotfl:lol

[ebor]

:lol There was just some dude yesterday in the Comedian thread claiming Armor All was the fix-all, cure-all for the newly discovered leaking issue with Comedian. :lol:rotfl:lol[/QUOTE]

Why not just use regular 5W30 and call it a day :lol

[fosing]

Armor All....
that shat is the culprit for breaking dashboards and cracking tires. i wont use that on ANY high end action figure.

[Foxdie45]

So out of all the figures made from HT it seems the only problem they have had are MAINLY on the TDK figure and the Comedian figure? Not bad if you ask me from a company that makes toys. I agree though with some posters that in a day and age of the internet when one person has a problem either with a service or a product it get's blown out of proportion and is extremely over quantified.

[fosing]

So out of all the figures made from HT it seems the only problem they have had are MAINLY on the TDK figure and the Comedian figure? Not bad if you ask me from a company that makes toys. I agree though with some posters that in a day and age of the internet when one person has a problem either with a service or a product it get's blown out of proportion and is extremely over quantified.

uhhhm, what part of rubber decay dont you get?:slap

[Foxdie45]

uhhhm, what part of rubber decay dont you get?:slap

I don't know please explain it to me since it seems like you know the answerer. If you could give me the exact rubber hot toys uses and the half life formula you seem to have for this decay then I sure would appreciate it. Oh please also include environmental factors in that decay to, IE direct or indirect sunlight Sorry I just have not been brought up to speed.

Yeah until then please do not ask me what part of rubber decay I don't understand.

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

I don't know please explain it to me since it seems like you know the answerer. If you could give me the exact rubber hot toys uses and the half life formula you seem to have for this decay then I sure would appreciate it. Oh please also include environmental factors in that decay to, IE direct or indirect sunlight Sorry I just have not been brought up to speed.

Yeah until then please do not ask me what part of rubber decay I don't understand.

:lol:lol:lol

[Guinnessfan]

So out of all the figures made from HT it seems the only problem they have had are MAINLY on the TDK figure and the Comedian figure? Not bad if you ask me from a company that makes toys. I agree though with some posters that in a day and age of the internet when one person has a problem either with a service or a product it get's blown out of proportion and is extremely over quantified.

i guess you havent looked at the other threads or really looked into this at all...also part of the problem would be the CS from HT not wanting to replace defective parts that are cracked/leaking. Factor in that some of their future toys maybe made with sub standard rubber, and those toys will possibly crack is more than enough reason to hope that something will be done to prevent this from happening. Especially since the prices are going to continue to go up on the retail side not to mention on the aftermarket.

[siquisiri]

So out of all the figures made from HT it seems the only problem they have had are MAINLY on the TDK figure and the Comedian figure? Not bad if you ask me from a company that makes toys. I agree though with some posters that in a day and age of the internet when one person has a problem either with a service or a product it get's blown out of proportion and is extremely over quantified.

Ive also read that the Alien Kane and the Perseus figure have issues also.

[fosing]

I don't know please explain it to me since it seems like you know the answerer. If you could give me the exact rubber hot toys uses and the half life formula you seem to have for this decay then I sure would appreciate it. Oh please also include environmental factors in that decay to, IE direct or indirect sunlight Sorry I just have not been brought up to speed.

Yeah until then please do not ask me what part of rubber decay I don't understand.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/illinois/images/Illinois/condoms2.jpg

:nana:

[MiskatonicNick]

Ive also read that the Alien Kane and the Perseus figure have issues also.

And the Mars Attacks figures too :(

[HottoyzJoker]

DX Joker... PERS broke on so many peoples and was built just plain cheap... Thin plastic when it should have been metal...

[RagingBull]

So far I've been lucky with all my rubber figures from HT. I keep most of them in my hall way were there's no sun light at all, so that must help there life span but is there anyone on here who knows & uses a product to treat the rubber on these figures. I'd be gutted to lose Batman, Comedian, Leonodas ect....

[Sachiel]

None of us like ugly joints. What are the alternatives to silicone and rubber? A cloth suit with plastic panels wouldn't have looked right on Batman.

I'll take the uncovered jointed arms over rubber arms any day.

Batman would have looked fine. It would probably need a unique body.

Since it seems that the TDK suit will show up in TDKR for the majority of the film, I doubt Hot Toys will pass up the chance to do the figure again. Hopefully this time they do it right and accurate. Cloth undersuit with plastic/vinyl armor plates. They can finally do the neck right too. And maybe they'll redo those damn boots...

[siquisiri]

So,
Dx Batman
The Comedian
Alien Kane
Perseus
Mars Attacks figures

it seems the list is growing.. not good

[Guinnessfan]

So,
Dx Batman
The Comedian
Alien Kane
Perseus
Mars Attacks figures
Rambo
it seems the list is growing.. not good

The other thing to take into condsidertion here is how many of their toys have full rubber bodies...and out of that how many of those had no problems? Dont get me wrong I love HT, but you can't defend them in this case.

[dragonsleeper]

I got the PMC Bale body (Rambo) and it's still okay. It's hot and humid here so it may not be the issue. I think posing the figs permanently in certain positions causes the wear and tear. I got to check on DX Bats though it's been a while since I saw him.

[Guinnessfan]

I got the PMC Bale body (Rambo) and it's still okay. It's hot and humid here so it may not be the issue. I think posing the figs permanently in certain positions causes the wear and tear. I got to check on DX Bats though it's been a while since I saw him.

Took him down off the shelf today and the body is completely deteriorated. Disappointing since he's been in a dark, temperature controlled room. It's an older fig, anyway but the muscle body was really a miss for HT. On the good side, my custom Zartan will inherit the bow and quiver.

Heres one it's in the R.I.P. Rambo thread

[Rorywan]

I got the PMC Bale body (Rambo) and it's still okay. It's hot and humid here so it may not be the issue. I think posing the figs permanently in certain positions causes the wear and tear. I got to check on DX Bats though it's been a while since I saw him.

The posing thing is definitely an issue. But I have had figures crack and leak in standard pose, arms down. The rubber itself is deteriorating, if the arms are bent it just speeds up the process as it is strained and will crack first.

Everyone seems to be also OVER factoring, environmental conditions. I live in a neutral environment, not too hot, not too dry. Figures not exposed to sunlight. They are still rotting though. Oh and add Robocop Ed 209 to that list..


Dx Batman
The Comedian
Alien Kane
Perseus
Mars Attacks figures
Rambo
Aliens rubber bodies
Robocop Ed 209

[fosing]

Abe's(hellboy) rubber arms had a few tearing issues too. :[

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

The posing thing is definitely an issue. But I have had figures crack and leak in standard pose, arms down. The rubber itself is deteriorating, if the arms are bent it just speeds up the process as it is strained and will crack first.

Everyone seems to be also OVER factoring, environmental conditions. I live in a neutral environment, not too hot, not too dry. Figures not exposed to sunlight. They are still rotting though. Oh and add Robocop Ed 209 to that list..


Dx Batman
The Comedian
Alien Kane
Perseus
Mars Attacks figures
Rambo
Aliens rubber bodies
Robocop Ed 209

Wow :horror:horror

[moose]

Ive also read that the Alien Kane and the Perseus figure have issues also.

Perseus really which part the chest ?

[moose]

Abe's(hellboy) rubber arms had a few tearing issues too. :[

i heard that the joints under the rubber end up breaking.

[thenammagazine]

I love it how all these ____ing newbs just jump in and think we're making a mountain out of a mole hill but haven't been here long enough nor taken the 10 minutes to browse the forum to have even the slightest clue what they're talking about.

[denger4000]

I have quite a few rubber figures and all are fine. maybe I'm just lucky?

[a-dev]

I haven't had arms cracking, ED-209's dome is still OK, no Kane&Dallas issues that I can detect, My DX batman leaks but so far hasn't been noticeably damaged by this etc etc BUT I would still worry. I would still rather HT seek to use alternatives. Just because my figures happen to be fine now doesn't mean they will stay that way. If its happening to other people I see no reason why my figures are special and immune.

[siquisiri]

I haven't had arms cracking, ED-209's dome is still OK, no Kane&Dallas issues that I can detect, My DX batman leaks but so far hasn't been noticeably damaged by this etc etc BUT I would still worry. I would still rather HT seek to use alternatives. Just because my figures happen to be fine now doesn't mean they will stay that way. If its happening to other people I see no reason why my figures are special and immune.

:goodpost:........................................

[Foxdie45]

I have quite a few rubber figures and all are fine. maybe I'm just lucky?

Yeah or maybe you don't play with yours like a 8 year old. Or you don't put it on a window seal.

I do agree there are problems with some of there figures and I do hope as a company they learn from these mistakes and make better figures in the future. But like I said in a earlier post, more people post about negative things then they do positive. Right here is an example of how someone has had no problems.

Do any of you know if they are moving to better solutions in the future to avoid this? Like the true body type?

[Rorywan]

Yeah or maybe you don't play with yours like a 8 year old. Or you don't put it on a window seal.



Idiot. Are you trolling? Or are you deliberately not listening?

You do realise you are not talking to a pile of kids right?
Most people in here are serious collectors. Personally my figures come out of their box and into a detolf. So how do you explain that big man?

Did you read the thread on the DX02? Did you? How do you explain that. You are insulting a lot of people with your ignorance.
Why is everyone with a Comedian figure reporting leaking crumbling rubber? Hmmm?

Maybe you should stop and listen before posting this ____.

[Lejuan]

Idiot. Are you trolling? Or are you deliberately not listening?

You do realise you are not talking to a pile of kids right?
Most people in here are serious collectors. Personally my figures come out of their box and into a detolf. So how do you explain that big man?

Did you read the thread on the DX02? Did you? How do you explain that. You are insulting a lot of people with your ignorance.
Why is everyone with a Comedian figure reporting leaking crumbling rubber? Hmmm?

Maybe you should stop and listen before posting this ____.

I am not insulted. I relish every opportunity I can to feel intellectually superior, even if it's at the expense of an idiot :)

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp123/VideoGameNerd777/gonbgud.gif

[Rorywan]

I am not insulted. I relish every opportunity I can to feel intellectually superior, even if it's at the expense of an idiot :)

:clap
:rotfl:rotfl

[CeeemOr]

Hey how bout the TDK(non-DX) and TDK OC has there been any problems with them?

[Kamandi]

Hey how bout the TDK(non-DX) and TDK OC has there been any problems with them?

The Non-DX Batmans look like they are going to last longer, but sooner or later...

[CeeemOr]

They should've stayed with that formula since it seemed to work for those Batman versions.

[Foxdie45]

Idiot. Are you trolling? Or are you deliberately not listening?

You do realise you are not talking to a pile of kids right?
Most people in here are serious collectors. Personally my figures come out of their box and into a detolf. So how do you explain that big man?

Did you read the thread on the DX02? Did you? How do you explain that. You are insulting a lot of people with your ignorance.
Why is everyone with a Comedian figure reporting leaking crumbling rubber? Hmmm?

Maybe you should stop and listen before posting this ____.

No I am not trolling but you are now calling me ignorant as well. That is insulting. What is ignorant is when you use the words "everyone". Like you did with the comedian figure, "as everyone is reporting problems with the comedian figure". When you use that word it encompasses 100% of "everyone" that bought the figure. As I am almost positive that everyone that purchased that figure does not post on these boards. That is the point I am trying to make. More people report negative things then good things. You would understand that from my original post I was pointing out how someone has not had any problems.

[Foxdie45]

:clap
:rotfl:rotfl

I think he is calling you the idiot if I am not mistaken..... I might be wrong though. :dunno

[Lejuan]

So out of all the figures made from HT it seems the only problem they have had are MAINLY on the TDK figure and the Comedian figure? Not bad if you ask me from a company that makes toys. I agree though with some posters that in a day and age of the internet when one person has a problem either with a service or a product it get's blown out of proportion and is extremely over quantified.

No I am not trolling but you are now calling me ignorant as well. That is insulting. What is ignorant is when you use the words "everyone". Like you did with the comedian figure, "as everyone is reporting problems with the comedian figure". When you use that word it encompasses 100% of "everyone" that bought the figure. As I am almost positive that everyone that purchased that figure does not post on these boards. That is the point I am trying to make. More people report negative things then good things. You would understand that from my original post I was pointing out how someone has not had any problems.

You can't have it both ways, picking on the use of a word like 'everyone' when you are sitting at the other end of the scale with 'one person'. Clearly there are enough people who are experiencing issues of rubber deterioration, and that this is happening with a number of figures, not just one or two.

I think he is calling you the idiot if I am not mistaken..... I might be wrong though. :dunno

You've kind of rocked up to this discussion with an opinion that is wildly out of kilter with 99% of other respondents, and supported by nothing more than the claim that collectors tend to whine about stuff. A read through the respective threads will reveal to you that a reasonable proportion of people have experienced issues with deterioration - certainly enough to have one conclude that these are far from isolated occurrences, and that those who have yet to experience a cracking, rotting figure are likely to experience it further down the track. Good luck to you if your rubber figures remain minty fresh forever, but asserting that many others don't have the same luck is akin to saying that this forum is full of liars. Even if that's the way you feel, why do this 27 posts in to your membership here, and why do it in a way that comes across as totally dismissive of the general consensus? So yeah, sorry, I was referring to you :)

[Foxdie45]

You can't have it both ways, picking on the use of a word like 'everyone' when you are sitting at the other end of the scale with 'one person'. Clearly there are enough people who are experiencing issues of rubber deterioration, and that this is happening with a number of figures, not just one or two.



Sorry, I was referring to you :lol. You've kind of rocked up to this discussion with an opinion that is wildly out of kilter with 99% of other respondents, and supported by nothing more than the claim that collectors tend to whine about stuff. A read through the respective threads will reveal to you that a reasonable proportion of people have experienced issues with deterioration - certainly enough to have one conclude that these are far from isolated occurrences, and that those who have yet to experience a cracking, rotting figure are likely to experience it further down the track.


But to my point once again the word "everyone" does encompass 100%. I never said collectors whine either. I am just pointing out how negativity in any product, good, or service is pointed out more then the positive. Using descriptions like "reasonable proportions" are more reasonable then using words like everyone. I also never did disagree "people down the track" might not have a problem either. I don't know the numbers of how many of one figure are sold per say but in order to get a "statistical" number a sample of 115 or more would need to be taken. Since I do not see anyone that has the numbers to do this, all we can do is speculate by the people who do post on these boards. So unless you give me actual numbers only then can I come to a complete resolution. But until then you can not assume everyone or be 100% sure that people will experience it down that track. The phrase by the way is "down the road"

Trust me you do not want to argue with someone who does statistics. The numbers don't lie, but you see neither me nor you have numbers :yess:

Oh also here is good place to start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Don't trust everything you read though, as it can be edited. But that will give you the idea to look at things in a different light.