Sideshow Articulation

Im new to this site and to the Sideshow products. I have a few questions that I hope some boarders can help me out with. I recently had the opportunity to finally examine one of my buddies Bond figures (the Jinx and the guy with the diamonds in his face). What I am dismayed about is the fact that, while the head sculpts are phenomenal (thought the Jinx is off a bit in color and rendering), I fail to see why the SW 12" are priced at double the Hasbro product. What's worse, the heads dont have as much range of motion as Hasbro. Now, Im not bashing SST, but I just dont see how the price is really justified and the actual product is not "light years" ahead of the last rendition of this scale. The bodies are superior, but they are cookie-cutter, so I wouldnt think that would drive the price to where it is. My buddies Jinx' joints were very loose. Is this common? I know, you get better clothes, better heads, and exclusives, but Im just not so sure this is the big savior of the SW 12" line it has been hyped to be. Again, please take no offense and I say what Im saying with the caveat that I dont KNOW SST like most of you, so Im speaking from a somewhat uninformed position. That said, I thought that maybe we'd see toys that were leaps and bounds above Hasbro, especially paying twice + the price. Im just really dismayed by the boots (not much better than Hasbro whatsoever) and the limited range in the head articulation. ALSO, I havent seen the Kit head move more than a few centimeters! Is THAT what we can expect? The photos only show him with his head pivoted about 20 degrees from one side to the other. That would really suck if that is what it's gonna be like. Sorry for the rant. Any constructive insight will be appreciated.

My advice is to just wait till you have it in you hands.
For my money, the SSC bodies are the best out there. The added wrist articulation alone adds so much to the displayability of the figure. I've actually ported some Hasbro figures onto SSC bodies, and the transformation is exquisite. Check out some of my work here.

The costuming and acessories are much more intricate as well. Take the recent Darth Sidious figure for example. He had an oversized hilt with a removable blade, an excellent hooded cloak, a dickie instead of a shirt, capri pants, and universal boots that are neither right nor left (standard hasbro trick).

The same figure as done by SSC will probably have a lightsaber and hilt in proportion to the figure, extra accessories (such as lightening, multiple hands, etc.), a hooded cloak with wire sewn in for added poseability, a detailed robe that can be displayed without the cloak (display Hasbro Sid withoutn his cloak, i dare you), pants, and right and left boot sculpts. The hands will not be kung-fu or karate grip, but will be realistically detailed in accordance to the figure, and even painted to match the head! The head iself will have marvelous sculpting and also multiple paint ops.
O ntop of everything, the choice of body will reflect the height of the character, likely the shorter version being used for Luke.

All this, plus a fantastic, collector-friendly display box adds up to a product that is leaps and bounds above Hasbro's offerings.
In all fairness, though, it's really not fair to compare, as the companies are catering to different markets.
At it's heart Hasbro is putting out toys for kids. That is it's main client-base. Sideshow is, and always has, attempted to appeal to the adult collector. As such, SSC does not make as much product, so they can spend more time on quality. They command a premium price for their reputation for quality. A well-earned reputation, I think most of the members of this board will agree.

I hope you enjoy these figures as much as the rest of us expect to!
April can't come soon enough.

What he said. SS's bodies are very nice and their wrist articulation is the best in the biz.

Thanks for your insight fellow Star Wars Collectors! Just one more question:
Is the head range typically sort of limited?
thanks
BTW Mikey, your customs are SWWWEEEETTTT!!!!!!!

EVILFACE said:

What he said. SS's bodies are very nice and their wrist articulation is the best in the biz.

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The BBi G3/G3.5 is a great body and has similar wrist articulation. It is one of my personal faves to kitbash with.

I like the wrists on the BBI one, but don't like the rest of the figure. Don't care for the shoulder joints and the elbows and knees don't go as far as the sideshow or dragon bodies.

DCFett said:

Thanks for your insight fellow Star Wars Collectors! Just one more question:
Is the head range typically sort of limited?
thanks
BTW Mikey, your customs are SWWWEEEETTTT!!!!!!!

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Thanks for the kudos. I can't wait to see the official versions that SSC does. I began to think of my work as just placeholders ever since the first pics of Luke and Anakin started to surface. They are fun to do, though!

As to the head range, I've never found it to be limited except in some rare cases, i.e. talking figures, figures where the head itself limited the range of movement. Other than that, it's a good ball joint with wide range of motion. There could be a little more pitch forward for looking down, but cocking from side to side or looking up is easy to do.

I do like the figures like Hellboy and Custer who have neck joints under the chin. For a character that has to look up they are very necessary. I understand why SSC doe most of the figures without that joint as it does compromise the sculpt to a certain extent.

Darklord Dave said:

I do like the figures like Hellboy and Custer who have neck joints under the chin. For a character that has to look up they are very necessary. I understand why SSC doe most of the figures without that joint as it does compromise the sculpt to a certain extent.

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Same here, and don't forget the very first Frankenstein! Whenever Sideshow uses this type of neck joint, it's always concealed in the jawline and not noticeable. With BBi or other figures, there's usually a straight seam with a bulge across the neck at the level of the chin.

What you see with the two Bond figures in regards to articulation you mentioned is pretty much what you can expect with the Star Wars figures. The SSC Star Wars figures will have far better designed belts and more elaborate costumes, hence why they're better then Hasbro. The neck articulation for GI Joe's is a bit better but it still can't get into a proper pose shouldering a rifle. The BBI Gen 3/3.5 figures can but they have huge gap at the base of the neck that looks horrible imo. But the ball joint under the chin is what gives them the most range.
Sideshow does have two different neck joints one with a second joint up under the chin, that has been mentioned before. I personally dislike it because it doesn't offer much more movement (not nearly as much movement as a BBI G3.5) and leaves another visible joint line.
I'd rather have figures that have limited neck movement with better looking heads and necks then have one with an ugly neck gap or a second joint line.

The wrists on Sideshow figures are the first to have the most realistic range of movement, BBI, Takara, and Hot Toys followed suit with a similar ball jointed wrist with the same range of movement, Sideshow was the innovator there. But I do think the current wrist joints on Sideshow figures look uglier then they need to be, I'd like Sideshow to change to the ball joint other companies are now using.

I think Sideshow should do a redesign of their basic bodies to make them look better (I won't go in depth on this subject), have a better range of articulation (my biggest complaint is the lack of range the upper and lower torso have), and take well-regarded innovations by other companies into consideration.

I like the wrists on the BBI one, but don't like the rest of the figure. Don't care for the shoulder joints and the elbows and knees don't go as far as the sideshow or dragon bodies.

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I agree about the shoulders, elbows and knees on G3.5 I don't like them much either. my favorite feature on BBI's G3.5 is the better ankle articulation. They leave a bit of a gap at the ankle but offer a much better and realistic range of movement. And that gap at the feet on most 1/6 figures is usually covered by shoes or boots so I don't mind the gap as much.
The new Hot Toys figures have the same range of movement at the ankles, and some have the better ball jointed wrists as BBI, and don't have ugly shoulders or limited knee and elbow articulation making them my favorite basic body on the market right now.
Hot Toys bodies do have that ugly gap at the bottom of the neck, but the rest of the figure is perfect imho.

But I do think the current wrist joints on Sideshow figures look uglier then they need to be, I'd like Sideshow to change to the ball joint other companies are now using.

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Over at Rebelscum they said the wrist joints for the Star Wars figures will be different. They will have a ball joint on the end instead of the usual Sideshow peg. I'm not sure that is what you are looking for, but it will make switching hands easier.

Really? Wow, this is the first I'm hearing of this. I always liked the wrist, personally. I'm intrigued to see what the new design looks like.

First I'm hearing of it too - I think we need a Blog report on the new hands!

Buttmunch said:

Over at Rebelscum they said the wrist joints for the Star Wars figures will be different. They will have a ball joint on the end instead of the usual Sideshow peg. I'm not sure that is what you are looking for, but it will make switching hands easier.

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Actually I read that a couple of days ago and I think the administrator there recanted. It would be nice if it was true:
https://threads.rebelscum.com/showf...10&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

Dave Myatt: Speaking of the wrists, they did a slight redesign to make the hands easier to switch. Gone are the 'hooked' wrist joints. Now figures will have a ball point wrist joint. A vast improvement imho.

UNIT01: So, they're more of a ball-jointed wrist to get more movement out of them?

Dave Myatt: No. They are just better suited for swapping hands now. Speaking of hands, the plastic seems softer than what we've seen before, so getting fingers into trigger holes will be a lot easier now too

Dave Myatt: Ugh. They aren't ball joints. They are still post joints. Just better post joints. Because of the new design and the softer plastic being used for the hands you'd have to be a raging ape on 'roids to break 'em

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I think he means that there's a ball at the end of the wrist post instead of a rod.
I was referring too the wrist design on a BBI G3.5 or a nongloved Hot Toys wrist, instead of a square butt joint at the ends of the forearm and hand, they have a ball joint at the wrist with more of a cup at the hand and forearm.

I just took a look at BBI's wrists. Wrists look much more subtle than Sideshow's. It would be nice if Sideshow updated their bodies.

Yeah that is what I was referring to. I figured the articulation was the same but the joint on the end was changed. So, it isn't going to be a ball joint on the end instead of the peg, but the peg will be made of a softer material.

Those guys at rebelscum played with those figures for hours and couldn't take one pic of the wrist joint? I think we need to have Dave drop in on Sideshow every month or so and get some new info. Why should rebelscum get it all? We should get some exclusive info (well more so than rebelscum at least).

JustinLuck said:

I just took a look at BBI's wrists. Wrists look much more subtle than Sideshow's. It would be nice if Sideshow updated their bodies.

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Yep, the BBI 3.5/Takara Cool Girl 2.0-style wrists are the best out there.

I'm afraid I'm no fan of Sideshow's bodies at all - there's something in the proportions somewhere that seems wrong to me (plus the gap at the hips can ruin the line of the figure's trousers) and though wonderfully poseable the poses tend towards looking odd and awkward. I know that makes absolutely no sense at all but I'm far happier with the shapes I can get my BBI 1.0's, 3.x's and Dragons into.

Neck articulation is another bugbear of mine - there's so much extra character than can be instilled into figure with a slight tilt of the head...

... so a lot of my Sideshow's end up on BBI 1.0 bodies (either standard or the taller body used for Andromeda's Dylan Hunt) with 3.5 hands (or at least wrists - Sideshow hands can be fitted onto the 3.5 wrist peg) and I find that improves a good figure no end.

BUT, I do come from a Toy background rather than Collector which I reckon may have a fair bit to do with such preferences.

Nick

I'm sure everyone here wants natural looking poses. So BBI 1.0 bodies fits better than more recent BBI bodies? I still hope that Sideshow is working on updated bodies for their entire line.

WOW! I didnt expect this much info on this issue. I do have some more newbie questions: What's BBI? G3/G3.5?

I agree with Nick, in my limited experience with the SS figures, the ole skool hip joints do tend to make unflattering creases in the pant legs of the figures. I can live with it, but it'd be nice if I didnt have to.

The butt jointed wrist seem a bit over designed and frail. B/c of that, I didnt attempt to remove any of my buddies figures hands. I think the Hasbro wrist was just fine had it been manufactured correctly. It seemed to work better on the GIJoes that had better QC. I guess my biggest issue with the wrist is that it doesnt have, design wise, an anatomical feel to it. These small details, for me, make the figure great as much as the care in the details in the clothing do. "God is in the details" - LeCorbusier Therefore, ALL the details matter.

I also agree with Justin on the head pitch. It would be nice if they figures could look decisively down. I dont mind the extra joints/seams it takes to do extra joints, as long as the joint is designed well. Luke comes with the Rancor bone, will he be able to "look up" at the Rancor monster? Not sure if he will be able to.

Finally, the Medicom boot joints seem more realistic. One of my peeves with Hasbro was that when you got ankle joints, the rubber boot completely made the joint obsolete. I was VERY dissappointed to see that this technique continued in the SS rendition of the SW 12" line. There just HAS to be a way to make the foot/ankle joints usable! IMHO

Thanks guys!

BBI G3/G3.5?

Blue Box International - they made some of the best 1/6th Military stuff out there for a while (NOT their Elite Brigade soldiers once available from TRU - cheap versions lacking several articulation points).

The G3 is their Third Generation of bodies, the 3.0 had rachetted hip joints which were awkward to pose, 3.5 fixed that. The 3.x's also feature ball socket feet which can make for some dynamic, and stable, posing in shoe footwear, not so much in boots though.

The BBI 1.0 body was their first 1/6th - leaner and less articulated than the G3.x it's still pretty poseable and fully compatible with the 3.x's (albeit with a little trimming of the wrist pegs). The basic 1.0 is a little shorter than the standard Sideshow but for their Dylan 'Andromeda' Hunt figure they added an ankle spacer, giving him longer legs and so far more compatible with Sideshow trousers.

You can find loose bodies, hands & heads over at places like...
https://www.monkeydepot.com/merchant/indexmain.htm
https://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.483571/sc.2/category.3/.f
https://www.thebattlerhino.com/

Fitting a Sideshow head on a BBI neck needs a little extra work; the neck has to be the 1.0 neck plug...
https://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.483571/sc.2/category.15/it.A/id.2186/.f
... rather than the 3.x
https://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.483571/sc.2/category.15/it.A/id.448/.f
Pop the head off the neck plug and, with a couple of little dabs of superglue, attach the Sideshow head. If the neck ends up too long, pull apart and just slice a piece off the BBI neck plug.

Also, at somepoint this year a new company, Triad, will be offering all-new 1/6th male and female bodies; designed by customisers who know about articulation and posing, these are generating quite a bit of interest.

Nick
https://www.toyville.co.uk