82nd ACADEMY AWARD Nominations

[LChinoz]

Quantify for me the "cultural impact" AVATAR has made so far without simply pointing to box office numbers.

(Also, spoofs like the Ben Stiller skit don't equal cultural impact because those occur with anything that's currently topical these days).

I posted it a few pages back. The fact is Avatar at this moment is a cultural phenomenon. Without box office numbers and longevity what defines Star Wars' cultural impact? You can be general and say it "changed a generation" but really, what are your standards? If Avatar enjoys the same relevance it has now 20 years from now then I assume you will say it had a cultural impact?

[IrishJedi]

Could we do that with SW though back in 77? I mean seriously films that have an impact like that don't do it within months of it coming out.
That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

[karamazov80]

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???
That and some protests at an Israeli settlement, I think.

[Kuzeh]

If that's indeed the case, then I will concede that it is a "cultural phenomenon" and has had a "cultural impact" at least on par with that of Star Wars kid, and possibly as much as Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch :lol

Yep, now imagine this...

If Archeologist from a Post-Apocalyptic scenario tried to piece together what our culture was, they would definitely think that it was heavily all the main-stream "cultural phenomena"...

[karamazov80]

I don't disagree. I just don't think that Avatar is one of the things those guys are going to notice when they sift through the rubble (at least, not yet). I do think McDonald's has had a massive cultural impact. I think Star Wars has. I think that Nike and Wal-Mart have. People from the future in a post-apocalyptic world would also think of this, because the imprints of these things can be felt everywhere. They are imbedded into the social fabric. That is what a true impact on culture is. My threshold for that is high, because I don't think every popular youtube video or the hottest new rap album are necessarily going to impact the culture in the way that these other things have.

Now Keyboard Cat--there is your cultural touchstone.

[IrishJedi]

I posted it a few pages back. The fact is Avatar at this moment is a cultural phenomenon.

No, it's a BOX OFFICE phenomenon, which is not the same thing. It's just been topical/current... but you can already see signs of that going away. I want to see this evidence of cultural impact.

Without box office numbers and longevity what defines Star Wars' cultural impact? You can be general and say it "changed a generation" but really, what are your standards?
That one's pretty easy. STAR WARS permeated the mainstream and created iconic characters, names, situations, phrases, etc. that are used all over the place by many different types of people to this very day. It also inspired a large amount of the people in our generation who work in the film/entertainment industry today (and other fields) and established lifelong relationships and hobbies for people. Dare I say that had SW not come out in 1977 many of us would likely not even be here having this discussion on this board. And that is a cultural impact.

If Avatar enjoys the same relevance it has now 20 years from now then I assume you will say it had a cultural impact?Sure. If it's in the mainstream consciousness 20 years from now then certainly it would have earned that label. But seeing that it's barely there now aside from being the latest box office phenomenon...

[LChinoz]

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

A lot of this post is hyperbole. The same could be said about SW fans back in 1977 being delusional.

[The Josh]

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

No its not immaterial. Its in fact the point being lost by both sides. The true impact won't be know for a long time. That I'm sorry is a fact. Arguing if it does or hasn't had an impact yet is fun to read and participate in but is just more about getting your two cents in at this point. (I can say this cause I don't give a damn either way) Both films I'm sure had or have had some kind of impact right away. Small I'm sure things like a renewed awareness of taking care of our planet or something like that. (which I think is pretty important but what do I know) SW wise I don't what happened in 77 I wasn't born just yet. :lol

[IrishJedi]

A lot of this post is hyperbole. The same could be said about SW fans back in 1977 being delusional.

My next post (just above yours) more clearly states the specifics behind just some of the cultural impact of SW.

[IrishJedi]

No its not immaterial. Its in fact the point being lost by both sides. The true impact won't be know for a long time. That I'm sorry is a fact. Arguing if it does or hasn't had an impact yet is fun to read and participate in but is just more about getting your two cents in at this point. (I can say this cause I don't give a damn either way) Both films I'm sure had or have had some kind of impact right away. Small I'm sure things like a renewed awareness of taking care of our planet or something like that. (which I think is pretty important but what do I know) SW wise I don't what happened in 77 I wasn't born just yet. :lol
The point is that some want to compare AVATAR's impact to STAR WARS now... already, and that is silly. It's not even in the same stratosphere yet, aside from making a crap-ton of money.

[LOTRFan]

No, it's a BOX OFFICE phenomenon, which is not the same thing. It's just been topical/current... but you can already see signs of that going away. I want to see this evidence of cultural impact.

That would be my contention as well, for the most part (awards aside) it was the year of Avatar at the movies; like it or not it reigned supreme. I happen to think that the ripple effect will be a negative overall, just because of the abundance of meaningless 3D; but time will tell.

Culturally however, the global economy and other concerns great outshadow any evidence of a lasting fingerprint from Avatar. The biggest example of this would be environmentally. Cameron's film could not help screaming from the rooftops about ecological responsibility and human corruption and greed within corporations. I have yet to see any large-scale environmental group cite Avatar as a leading motivation, or better yet any form of Avatar organization begin.

If one is to suggest cultural impact, it would have to be seen ecologically, that is absent to present.

[The Josh]

The point is that some want to compare AVATAR's impact to STAR WARS now... already, and that is silly. It's not even in the same stratosphere yet, aside from making a crap-ton of money.

Well, to compare what SW has done over the last 30+ years to a movie that has been out for a few months is silly. What would be fair is to compare the impact each film had at the same time out.

[LOTRFan]

That one's pretty easy. STAR WARS permeated the mainstream and created iconic characters, names, situations, phrases, etc. that are used all over the place by many different types of people to this very day.

You won't find any phrases cited from Avatar, that would have required a script more robust than "shock and awe;" or a helicopter pilot remarking at people's reactions with the eyes in the back or her head.

:banghead

It's a great question though, what is the Avatar equivalent for "May the Force be With You?" :dunno

** EDIT ** "I see you" was patented by Sauron, before Neytiri! :wacky

[LChinoz]

No, it's a BOX OFFICE phenomenon, which is not the same thing. It's just been topical/current... but you can already see signs of that going away. I want to see this evidence of cultural impact.


That one's pretty easy. STAR WARS permeated the mainstream and created iconic characters, names, situations, phrases, etc. that are used all over the place by many different types of people to this very day. It also inspired a large amount of the people in our generation who work in the film/entertainment industry today (and other fields) and established lifelong relationships and hobbies for people. Dare I say that had SW not come out in 1977 many of us would likely not even be here having this discussion on this board. And that is a cultural impact.

Sure. If it's in the mainstream consciousness 20 years from now then certainly it would have earned that label. But seeing that it's barely there now aside from being the latest box office phenomenon...

So the impact is a bunch of things unmeasurable right now. So in 1977, 3 months after Star Wars came out, did it have an impact? Or did you have to wait 30+ years before finally saying it did.

[creature4000]

There will be no Cultural Impact from Avatar! The Marketing machine is the only reason it did so well.

[karamazov80]

The point is that some want to compare AVATAR's impact to STAR WARS now... already, and that is silly. It's not even in the same stratosphere yet, aside from making a crap-ton of money.
Taking inflation into account, Star Wars made almost twice as much as Avatar in the theaters.

Well, to compare what SW has done over the last 30+ years to a movie that has been out for a few months is silly. What would be fair is to compare the impact each film had at the same time out.
I agree, but by doing this you aren't evaluating cultural impact (which I think we both agree is impossible to know from Avatar at the moment), but something else. And I'm not sure how many things can be compared along this line, but if merchandise sales are any indication, then I'm not sure how Avatar stacks up.

[LChinoz]

Well, to compare what SW has done over the last 30+ years to a movie that has been out for a few months is silly. What would be fair is to compare the impact each film had at the same time out.

My thoughts exactly. I never argued longevity...it was never part of my argument. If people say "SW sold more toys after it's release" then that is a valid point, albeit a minor one. 1977 was a different time for toys.

[ink]

:lol That's not saying much now is it? Most "mainstream" people could not name 3 characters from LOTR...

frodo
aragorn
legolas

next question...

[karamazov80]

I will concede--those protesting Sadat's visit to Israel in 1977 probably did not dress like Chewbacca. I guess Avatar wins.

[LChinoz]

Taking inflation into account, Star Wars made almost twice as much as Avatar in the theaters.


I agree, but by doing this you aren't evaluating cultural impact (which I think we both agree is impossible to know from Avatar at the moment), but something else. And I'm not sure how many things can be compared along this line, but if merchandise sales are any indication, then I'm not sure how Avatar stacks up.

Star Wars also had numerous sequels and re-releases. Cultural impact means impact on culture...it is simple as that. In no way, shape, or form does longevity play apart unless you wish to include it yourself in your own definition. For this reason, films that are no longer relevant like Titanic, and also films that are new phenomenon, like Twilight, both had a cultural impact.

[IrishJedi]

So the impact is a bunch of things unmeasurable right now. So in 1977, 3 months after Star Wars came out, did it have an impact? Or did you have to wait 30+ years before finally saying it did.
Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who was so quick to make the comparison or give AVATAR a label it has not yet earned.

[CelticPredator]

No one knows who Jake Sully is. Except for nerds like us.

[LChinoz]

frodo
aragorn
legolas

next question...

:duh:duh:duh

[barbelith]

To brush these stories off as events that "come and go" with the likes of paparazzi stories of Hugh Grant's prostitute is troubling.

I think they're the same thing, really. It's just the political culture war porn version of celebrity paparazzi. People get worked up over it for a few days, bleat their opinions at the water cooler and move on. Who thinks about any of those three people now? Nobody.

I think you're confusing a temporary fad for cultural impact. The "names" issue is a pretty good indicator we're looking at a fad (as if we needed one). People aren't connecting with the movie as something more than a blockbuster experience.

[The Josh]

I agree, but by doing this you aren't evaluating cultural impact (which I think we both agree is impossible to know from Avatar at the moment), but something else. And I'm not sure how many things can be compared along this line, but if merchandise sales are any indication, then I'm not sure how Avatar stacks up.

I totally agree its impossible to know with Avatar. I think in the end if it has anything impact it will be with pushing maybe paying attention to our planet and taking care of it. If not that then I don't see much coming from it.

[LChinoz]

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one who was so quick to make the comparison or give AVATAR a label it has not yet earned.

I'm sorry, I think you are mistaking me for the person who said "Avatar has impacted culture as much as Star Wars."

[barbelith]

No it doesn't. I know like, lots and lots and lots of people who can name a character from Avatar, so nanny nanny boo boo. :duh My information is just as valid as yours.

I'm sure you do. I don't really hang out with nerds though. :monkey3

And to say few people talk about Avatar reveals you are teetering on delusion.

Not really. It's hardly watercooler conversation anymore. You still get conversations like this one, talking about the film as a product, but I honestly haven't heard anyone in real life talk about the film as a film since last year.

[karamazov80]

Cultural impact means impact on culture...it is simple as that.
You will concede that Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch had a cultural impact, then? I mean, people were talking about it. They made funny youtube videos. People dressed up like the guy for Halloween. It will be completely forgotten in a few months, but for awhile it was the bees knees.

[LChinoz]

I think they're the same thing, really. It's just the political culture war porn version of celebrity paparazzi. People get worked up over it for a few days, bleat their opinions at the water cooler and move on. Who thinks about any of those three people now? Nobody.

I think you're confusing a temporary fad for cultural impact. The "names" issue is a pretty good indicator we're looking at a fad (as if we needed one). People aren't connecting with the movie as something more than a blockbuster experience.

I think your confusing cultural impact for longevity and/or relevance. And we already went over the "names" issue. All those stories did impact culture. The fact that no one is talking about them now is irrelevant to that.

[barbelith]

Why do you keep arguing against a point that no one is actually making? Since when is naming characters from movies the lone litmus test for determining its lasting effect? Not a single person has ever argued that Jake Sully is the next Darth Vader or Mickey Mouse.

Not many people outside of film buffs can give specific names of characters from The Godfather, Jaws, or Jurassic Park either.

I think it has a lot to do with the topic at hand, because it shows how deeply audiences are connecting with a film. I don't really think Jurassic Park is a cultural touchstone (great example of a fad film fading, for a little alliteration). You'd have a point about Jaws, except that the characters are more or less irrelevant to its legacy, which is about, well, Jaws. Everyone knows Jaws the animal.

Whereas say Na'vi or Neyteri in mixed company and most people will just stare blankly. Your mom knows who Jaws is. She knows who Don Corleone is. I'm putting pretty good money on her furrowing her brow when you say Quaritch. :)

[CelticPredator]

^ truth right here.

[barbelith]

I think your confusing cultural impact for longevity and/or relevance.

I think cultural impact necessarily has to have longevity and/or relevance by definition. We're three months from launch and Avatar is yesterday's news. That's not exactly encouraging for much more than "fad film."

[LChinoz]

You will concede that Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch had a cultural impact, then? I mean, people were talking about it. They made funny youtube videos. People dressed up like the guy for Halloween. It will be completely forgotten in a few months, but for awhile it was the bees knees.

To a degree, but honestly with celebrity stories it varies. Stories about issues like medical intervention or immigration like the Shiavo and Gonzales stories are more culturally significant. Think of Xanga. It had a cultural impact, although almost no one uses it now.

[LChinoz]

I think cultural impact necessarily has to have longevity and/or relevance by definition. We're three months from launch and Avatar is yesterday's news. That's not exactly encouraging for much more than "fad film."

No it does not. Are you telling me Twilight is not a cultural phenomenon? That Titanic was not? Longevity is only an indication of how strong the initial impact was.

[barbelith]

No it does not. Are you telling me Twilight is not a cultural phenomenon? That Titanic was not? Longevity is only an indication of how strong the initial impact was.

Longevity is the impact. You're talking about fads. I disagree that's the same thing. A "cultural phenomenon" the culture shrugs off has no real impact.

Funny how nobody talks about The Matrix anymore.

[karamazov80]

To a degree, but honestly with celebrity stories it varies. Stories about issues like medical intervention or immigration like the Shiavo and Gonzales stories are more culturally significant. Think of Xanga. It had a cultural impact, although almost no one uses it now.
Fair enough. We obviously just have different ideas of what a cultural impact is, then. In both cases, we are really bastardizing the academic-type use of the terms as a broad way of classifying societies (e.g. Roman culture was impacted by the creation of aquaducts), so we're probably both equally wrong :lol

[LChinoz]

Longevity is the impact. You're talking about fads. I disagree that's the same thing. A "cultural phenomenon" the culture shrugs off has no real impact.

Funny how nobody talks about The Matrix anymore.

We simply will not agree on this, and that's fine. I take impact and culture literally, and therefore, a "fad" impacts culture as well.

[Khev]

I think it has a lot to do with the topic at hand, because it shows how deeply audiences are connecting with a film. I don't really think Jurassic Park is a cultural touchstone (great example of a fad film fading, for a little alliteration).

I think JP forever changed how people see dinosaurs. Most people pictured them as slow lumbering beasts before all the running and jumping we saw in 1993. Plus dino terms like "T-Rex" and "velociraptor" are now common knowledge thanks to JP.

Whereas say Na'vi or Neyteri in mixed company and most people will just stare blankly. Your mom knows who Jaws is. She knows who Don Corleone is. I'm putting pretty good money on her furrowing her brow when you say Quaritch. :)

Oh I certainly agree. I just wanted to point out that naming characters from a movie isn't the end-all-be-all of a movie's "cultural impact."

Avatar has too many cliched elements for any one of them to get credit for really impacting society. Like Peter Jackson's King Kong it perfected many elements of its genre but it certainly didn't pioneer them.

[The ill Jedi]

...Reading comprehension is advised.
:lol

Nah, it's not that...
it just that some people here just like to flood threads trying to validate their point...
I've seen you do that...many times.

Just sayin'. :D

Luca M'fing Brasi FTW! :banana
But he sleeps with the fishes. :rip

[occulum]

this thread is :lol

not reading it all, but Star Wars & Avatar have 1 thing in common. The debut of a leap forward in special effects advancement.

The difference IMO is that Star Wars felt like an original story for the most part, Avatar didnt. Star Wars for the huge win.

Titanic .... without chicks getting obsessed over multiple viewings, this wouldve been an average box office haul ... :monkey1

[Ultimate Weapon]

When I was a kid, I got my hands on an old issue of Playboy from 1979 or so. One of the things I distinctly remember (among other things) was a comic strip within the pages. It was a typical kind of cartoon four panel strip, like Doonesbury or something. It went something like this:

A guy and girl were undressing on a bed, obviously getting ready to have sex.

Guy: "I can't believe you never have."
Girl: "Nope, never."

Guy: Really, not even once?"
Girl: "Nope."

Guy: "Just say it one more time for me."
Girl: "I've never seen Star Wars."
Guy: "Wow."

That's the difference in the impact that a cultural touchstone like the original Star Wars had. Sometime when it was first broadcast on tv during the breaks they had clips of people talking about how many times they had seen Star Wars. I remember a family saying 300 times - and this was before home video existed anywhere as it does today.

I'm not trying to compare Avatar and Star Wars,because there's little point, but those kind of things illustrate a cultural phenom from momentary popularity/notoriety.

[Maglor]

this thread is :lol
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a339/maglorsregret/for%20fun/user3464_pic8185_1262409393.gif


It's also: :horse

And: :sleep

And: :dump

[LChinoz]

When I was a kid, I got my hands on an old issue of Playboy from 1979 or so. One of the things I distinctly remember (among other things) was a comic strip within the pages. It was a typical kind of cartoon four panel strip, like Doonesbury or something. It went something like this:

A guy and girl were undressing on a bed, obviously getting ready to have sex.

Guy: "I can't believe you never have."
Girl: "Nope, never."

Guy: Really, not even once?"
Girl: "Nope."

Guy: "Just say it one more time for me."
Girl: "I've never seen Star Wars."
Guy: "Wow."

That's the difference in the impact that a cultural touchstone like the original Star Wars had. Sometime when it was first broadcast on tv during the breaks they had clips of people talking about how many times they had seen Star Wars. I remember a family saying 300 times - and this was before home video existed anywhere as it does today.

I'm not trying to compare Avatar and Star Wars,because there's little point, but those kind of things illustrate a cultural phenom from momentary popularity/notoriety.

I would be that "Guy" :D

[Maglor]

I would be that "Guy" :D

I've been wondering: are you a dude or a chick?


(Not a joke.)

[Shai]

Jake Sully is small in the pants.

[LChinoz]

I've been wondering: are you a dude or a chick?


(Not a joke.)

I'm a guy. Everyone knows most of the girls on the forum, as they are few.

[Maglor]

Jake Sully is small in the pants.

:lol:lol


I'm a guy.

To bad! The chick in your our profile picture is hot! (I don't mean your avatar... although she's hot too!)



Everyone knows most of the girls on the forum, as they are few.

Sigh, I know :(. Haven't totally figured out who's who yet.

[barbelith]

We simply will not agree on this, and that's fine. I take impact and culture literally, and therefore, a "fad" impacts culture as well.

Actually, you take impact figuratively. ;)

I don't think "happening within the culture" and "impacting the culture" are the same thing. Your approach means pretty much everything ever has some kind of cultural impact, which renders the term meaningless.

[LChinoz]

Actually, you take impact figuratively. ;)

I don't think "happening within the culture" and "impacting the culture" are the same thing. Your approach means pretty much everything ever has some kind of cultural impact, which renders the term meaningless.

I know we're going round and round but no, I take it literally. Like I said, culture can be impacted by something even if it doesn't last 20 years. Time is too relative in this case, like if people were to stop talking about Star Wars 20 years from now would that mean it had no impact? What is the timetable? This is too broad and therefore should be left out of the discussion. I believe something that affects culture, no matter how long it lasts, has impacted it.

I don't think Avatar is a cultural phenomenon at all. A ton of people have seen it, but the film itself has had almost no cultural impact whatsoever.

If longevity is key to cultural impact, why even bother saying the above? It has only been out 3 months, therefore, according to you, it's impact cannot be measured yet. Also, you state "almost no cultural impact whatsoever" which means you believe it has impacted culture, albeit minimally.

[barbelith]

Like I said, culture can be impacted by something even if it doesn't last 20 years.

I agree. But you seem to be using "impact" and "fad" interchangeably. That's where we disagree, because I don't think they're the same thing. Again, it renders the term meaningless. By your definition, pogs had cultural impact. Um, what?

If longevity is key to cultural impact, why even bother saying the above?

Avatar is fading after three months. We already know it has no longevity.

Also, you state "almost no cultural impact whatsoever" which means you believe it has impacted culture, albeit minimally.

I was thinking of the inflated ticket surcharge. That genie's not going back in the bottle. I can't remember if I paid a surcharge to see Coraline in 3D.

[Dusty]

I would also argue that Avatar is not fading. Any film that is still in the top 5 every single day and every single weekend 3 months after release is not 'fading'. It's going to come out on DVD/BR in April, and yet I would argue that they could feasibly leave it in theaters for another year and it would still bring in the cash. Maybe it's only the few 'crazies' going to see it over and over, but that can also be said for any film that anyone has seen over 100 times... those people are the 'crazies' for that film. Heck, I work for a collectibles company, Empire Strikes Back is my favorite movie of all time, and I haven't even seen any of the Star Wars films more than 100 times :lol

That said - THERE IS NO MOVIE PHENOMENA LIKE STAR WARS, and there never again will be - everything, everything, everything came together at the perfect moment for SW and was continued with brilliance. It cannot be repeated. I don't know why people keep bringing that up at all.

I will not get sucked into an argument about the minutiae of the everyone's personal definitions of 'cultural impact' :lol

[BadMoon]

I would also argue that Avatar is not fading. Any film that is still in the top 5 every single day and every single weekend 3 months after release is not 'fading'. It's going to come out on DVD/BR in April, and yet I would argue that they could feasibly leave it in theaters for another year and it would still bring in the cash. Maybe it's only the few 'crazies' going to see it over and over, but that can also be said for any film that anyone has seen over 100 times... those people are the 'crazies' for that film. Heck, I work for a collectibles company, Empire Strikes Back is my favorite movie of all time, and I haven't even seen any of the Star Wars films more than 100 times :lol

That said - THERE IS NO MOVIE PHENOMENA LIKE STAR WARS, and there never again will be - everything, everything, everything came together at the perfect moment for SW and was continued with brilliance. It cannot be repeated. I don't know why people keep bringing that up at all.

I will not get sucked into an argument about the minutiae of the everyone's personal definitions of 'cultural impact' :lol

Dusty will you at least discuss the "cultural significance" of Avatar? :dunno :rotfl

[The Ween]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/yawning.gif

[barbelith]

I would also argue that Avatar is not fading. Any film that is still in the top 5 every single day and every single weekend 3 months after release is not 'fading'.

I'm not so sure the box office tells us anything other than people are still up for a few hours of blockbuster escapism in a time when there's little real competition on the marquis. The opening for Alice in Wonderland was extraordinary, and makes me think there's something else going on here.

By "fading" I'm talking about Avatar's presence in the cultural landscape. The monologue jokes have come and gone, the watercooler discussions are a thing of yesterday, normal people aren't really talking about it. There's obviously a parabola that peaked two months ago. That's a great arc if you're interested in collecting money but not so amazing for "cultural impact."

I'm reminded of NCIS, which is now one of the biggest shows on TV yet bizarrely exists in a cultural vacuum. Nobody talks about, nobody seems to actually watch it, its impact on the culture is essentially nil.

Time will tell the tale, but barring the hype bubble around a sequel I highly doubt anyone will still be talking about Avatar five years from now. Maybe the same people who still buy Matrix Revolutions figures... :horror

[The Ween]

I love NCIS, and my mother is addicted to it. She watches all the reruns on USA over and over again.

[karamazov80]

I will not get sucked into an argument about the minutiae of the everyone's personal definitions of 'cultural impact' :lol

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_dOZAc3Ohi4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_dOZAc3Ohi4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Khev]

The monologue jokes have come and gone, the watercooler discussions are a thing of yesterday, normal people aren't really talking about it.

It must be nice to know what all those people who keep going to see Avatar week after week are thinking and talking about, as well as the rest of the world. Leno referenced Avatar in his monologue tonight, btw. :)

And District 9 is this year's The Matrix, not Avatar. But I'm guessing you already knew that.

[karamazov80]

The people I work with haven't said a peep about Avatar. But then, they're mostly the kind of people who would go see those Matthew McConaughey romantic comedies.

[LOTRFan]

And District 9 is this year's The Matrix, not Avatar. But I'm guessing you already knew that.

Where does this arbitrary comparison come from? :dunno

[316what]

I totally agree its impossible to know with Avatar. I think in the end if it has anything impact it will be with pushing maybe paying attention to our planet and taking care of it. If not that then I don't see much coming from it.

If Captain Planet couldn't accomplish this, I don't think Avatar will.:monkey1

[The Josh]

If Captain Planet couldn't accomplish this, I don't think Avatar will.:monkey1

Good Point! :lol

[Khev]

Where does this arbitrary comparison come from? :dunno

They were both the critically acclaimed R-rated sci-fi sleepers of their respective years. Nothing arbitrary about that.

[barbelith]

It must be nice to know what all those people who keep going to see Avatar week after week are thinking and talking about, as well as the rest of the world.

Outside the context of the Academy Awards, I literally haven't heard a single person off the Internet mention Avatar since January. Now like I said, I don't really hang around nerds in real life, so maybe it's a biased sample. But surely "normal people" would be abuzz if it's the seismic cultural touchstone some people have implied? I can see you're a fan from your sig image, so I don't expect you to be able to look at it objectively. ;)

Leno referenced Avatar in his monologue tonight, btw.

He's always been so timely and cutting edge. :)

And District 9 is this year's The Matrix, not Avatar.

It depends entirely on the context. I'm not talking about R sleepers as a category.

[EVILFACE]

District 9 was good film, but not on the level of The Matrix. The Matrix had a huge impact on the decade after it came out. I don't see that with District 9.

District 9 - 7/10
The Matrix 10/10

[LOTRFan]

They were both the critically acclaimed R-rated sci-fi sleepers of their respective years. Nothing arbitrary about that.

It certainly is as abitrary as sharing a rating and having positive reviews.

As far as the ongoing impact of the films themselves I don't imagine that the latest Shrek film will have any shoot-outs with the "fookin' prawns."

:monkey1

[Maglor]

District 9 was good film, but not on the level of The Matrix. The Matrix had a huge impact on the decade after it came out. I don't see that with District 9.

District 9 - 7/10
The Matrix 10/10



The Matrix is one of the greatest Sci-Fi movies of all time, hands down. And it had a huge cultural impact.

But this illustrates again that cultural impact has little to do with quality.

I haven't seen District 9 yet, but I have a hunch I wont personally like it more than the Matrix. Still, in the eyes of critics, and in the eyes of the academy (don't forget the thread topic), District 9 is the superior movie. Perhaps, it is better acted. Maybe it has that "artsy" feel.



Point is, cultural impact and whether a film is deserving of awards are 2 different issues.

[Valfar]

District 9 had that eighties feel to it, especially right when the credits roll at the end, it gave me that feeling most of the old rated R sci-fi movies from the eighties did.

We need more movies like that, its lack off this that made the new Terminator movies fail.

[EVILFACE]

I haven't seen District 9 yet, but I have a hunch I wont personally like it more than the Matrix. Still, in the eyes of critics, and in the eyes of the academy (don't forget the thread topic), District 9 is the superior movie. Perhaps, it is better acted. Maybe it has that "artsy" feel.

Only because of the now 10 nominations. If it was still 5, District 9 would not have made the cut.

[Dusty]

Outside the context of the Academy Awards, I literally haven't heard a single person off the Internet mention Avatar since January. Now like I said, I don't really hang around nerds in real life, so maybe it's a biased sample. But surely "normal people" would be abuzz if it's the seismic cultural touchstone some people have implied? I can see you're a fan from your sig image, so I don't expect you to be able to look at it objectively. ;)

Woah, hold on there, I haven't seen anyone implying anything 'seismic' about it :lol It's not like the destruction of the Berlin wall or anything ;) The argument is simply that it has made an impression, across cultures and culturally, whether we like it or not.

[Maglor]

Only because of the now 10 nominations. If it was still 5, District 9 would not have made the cut.

Maybe so maybe not.


Do you think it's likely that Matrix would have been nominated for best picture if there were 10 nominations that year. I'm not so sure. It did introduce new tech, and had a great story, but it was still a pretty 'down the line' sci-fi film.

[EVILFACE]

No question it would. And like District 9, it would also have no chance of winning.

[Bullseye]

It's been a long long time since the Oscars were culturally relevent.

[LChinoz]

Outside the context of the Academy Awards, I literally haven't heard a single person off the Internet mention Avatar since January. Now like I said, I don't really hang around nerds in real life, so maybe it's a biased sample. But surely "normal people" would be abuzz if it's the seismic cultural touchstone some people have implied? I can see you're a fan from your sig image, so I don't expect you to be able to look at it objectively. ;)

No one said anything close to that. Over dramatize much?

Woah, hold on there, I haven't seen anyone implying anything 'seismic' about it :lol It's not like the destruction of the Berlin wall or anything ;) The argument is simply that it has made an impression, across cultures and culturally, whether we like it or not.

:lecture

[LChinoz]

Maybe so maybe not.


Do you think it's likely that Matrix would have been nominated for best picture if there were 10 nominations that year. I'm not so sure. It did introduce new tech, and had a great story, but it was still a pretty 'down the line' sci-fi film.

This is all speculation but I think the Matrix would have been included if there were 10, but both D9 and The Matrix would have been left out if there were 5.

[IronFingaz]

Shai Hulud is small in the pants.

Fixed :lecture

[barbelith]

Woah, hold on there, I haven't seen anyone implying anything 'seismic' about it.

It's implied every time someone gets up in arms over people questioning whether the film's had any real cultural impact.

[barbelith]

No one said anything close to that.

Actually, we have seen people claiming it's going to be this generation's Star Wars. So no, not over-dramatizing anything.

[Khev]

Outside the context of the Academy Awards, I literally haven't heard a single person off the Internet mention Avatar since January. Now like I said, I don't really hang around nerds in real life, so maybe it's a biased sample. But surely "normal people" would be abuzz if it's the seismic cultural touchstone some people have implied? I can see you're a fan from your sig image, so I don't expect you to be able to look at it objectively. ;)

I think its pretty obvious that anyone who looks at Avatar objectively needs only to consider the company it keeps with regard to its ticket sales to determine its place in film history as a viable cinematic touchstone:

1 Gone with the Wind
2 Star Wars
3 The Sound of Music
4 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
5 The Ten Commandments
6 Titanic
7 Jaws
8 Doctor Zhivago
9 The Exorcist
10 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
11 101 Dalmatians
12 The Empire Strikes Back
13 Ben-Hur
14 Avatar
15 Return of the Jedi

Note that this isn't a list where Shrek 2, Home Alone, or Pirates of the Caribbean 2 sneaks into the top 10 due to inflation. Those 15 movies are some of the most celebrated (for various reasons) films of all time. Not a single flash in the pan on the list. 101 Dalmations does stick out a bit but even that is still in the public's consciousness almost 60 years later.

As for my own affinity for the movie, its all about Ryan Church and Jim Cameron's concept work, the interplay between Jake and Quaritch (much moreso than Jake and Neytiri which is where it appears I differ from many other fans), and finally delivering on a promise George Lucas made shortly after Jurassic Park that wasn't fulfilled in a militaristic/sci-fi setting until now.

[Voorhees27]

After finally seeing Hurt Locker and Precious I can say that IB was robbed at the Academy Awards last Sunday. I was easily the best picture and best screenplay of 2009.

Hurt Locker = Politics.

The only good thing about HL was Jeremy Renners performance. It was solid.

[SOLIDSNAKE]

I saw green zone last nite with matt damon and it was such a better movie then the hurt locker.

2 days after the oscars my friends wantes to watch the hurt locker to see what the fuzz was all about and they got so mad at me for wasting there time.

they hated so much ! they said it was the biggest borring movie of all times and how was it possible that this movie won best movie of the year.

second time seeing it and I was so bored too.
BAD CALL FROM THE OSCARS !

AVATAR IS A BETTER MOVIE !

[nash]

I saw green zone last nite with matt damon and it was such a better movie then the hurt locker.

2 days after the oscars my friends wantes to watch the hurt locker to see what the fuzz was all about and they got so mad at me for wasting there time.

they hated so much ! they said it was the biggest borring movie of all times and how was it possible that this movie won best movie of the year.

second time seeing it and I was so bored too.
BAD CALL FROM THE OSCARS !

AVATAR IS A BETTER MOVIE !

I also dont buy into all the hype about the hurt locker. I thought it was a decent movie, but I felt the end was a bit of a cop out and the last sniper battle was a waste of time.

Having said that, I still feel that the hurt locker has more substance than avatar.

[SOLIDSNAKE]

the sniper battle had good potential but they draged it out.

I dint mind it the first time I saw the movie but the second time it was just so BLA and boring.

I felt no compassion for any of the chracters.
No heroism what so ever.

BLACK HAWK DOWN still my fav military movie.

[Khev]

I also dont buy into all the hype about the hurt locker. I thought it was a decent movie, but I felt the end was a bit of a cop out

I agree that Hurt Locker was overhyped but why did you think the ending was a copout? When you say "the end" do you mean the literal ending where we see him heading off to start another 365 days of service? Because the entire movie, right from the opening quote, built up to that exact moment.

[LOTRFan]

the sniper battle had good potential but they draged it out.

That's called cinematic tension in the ADD age. :monkey1

[Bullseye]

There is more tension in a paper clip.

[CelticPredator]

How can anyone dislike The Hurt Locker? It was totally amazing. :confused:

[Maglor]

I think its pretty obvious that anyone who looks at Avatar objectively needs only to consider the company it keeps with regard to its ticket sales to determine its place in film history as a viable cinematic touchstone:

1 Gone with the Wind
2 Star Wars
3 The Sound of Music
4 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
5 The Ten Commandments
6 Titanic
7 Jaws
8 Doctor Zhivago
9 The Exorcist
10 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
11 101 Dalmatians
12 The Empire Strikes Back
13 Ben-Hur
14 Avatar
15 Return of the Jedi

Note that this isn't a list where Shrek 2, Home Alone, or Pirates of the Caribbean 2 sneaks into the top 10 due to inflation. Those 15 movies are some of the most celebrated (for various reasons) films of all time. Not a single flash in the pan on the list. 101 Dalmations does stick out a bit but even that is still in the public's consciousness almost 60 years later.

As for my own affinity for the movie, its all about Ryan Church and Jim Cameron's concept work, the interplay between Jake and Quaritch (much moreso than Jake and Neytiri which is where it appears I differ from many other fans), and finally delivering on a promise George Lucas made shortly after Jurassic Park that wasn't fulfilled in a militaristic/sci-fi setting until now.


Just quoting this post because I think it's awesome.

[Something Sexy]

I saw green zone last nite with matt damon and it was such a better movie then the hurt locker.

2 days after the oscars my friends wantes to watch the hurt locker to see what the fuzz was all about and they got so mad at me for wasting there time.

they hated so much ! they said it was the biggest borring movie of all times and how was it possible that this movie won best movie of the year.

second time seeing it and I was so bored too.
BAD CALL FROM THE OSCARS !

AVATAR IS A BETTER MOVIE !

Are you 12?

[CelticPredator]

Lol........

[wofford29]

How can anyone dislike The Hurt Locker? It was totally amazing. :confused:

No blue people, toy line, ripped off plots, cheesy one liner script, 3D?

[CelticPredator]

Yeah, makes sense. The Hurt Locker SUCKS!

Why wasnt it more predicible???

[Bullseye]

No blue people, toy line, ripped off plots, cheesy one liner script, 3D?

People don't dislike the movie but they are amazed by the hyperbole. Better war movies than this haven't even been nominated. Better movie in foreign language section of Oscars. Etc. Just as Avatar film fanatics are full of hype the same can be levelled at the fanboys of the HL.

[CelticPredator]

I dont think anyone is a fanboy of The Hurt Locker.

Plus, no one is worse then Avatards. NO ONE.

[Bullseye]

Actually Foot Locker fans are just as bad.

[CelticPredator]

From the above statement. No. They arent. Foot Locker? :lol. Are all Avatar fans 13 or something? Never once have I seen Hurt Locker fans even attempt to attack any other war movie....

[Bullseye]

I would suggest alot of Avatar fans are fans of James Cameron and what he has done in general for the movie industry. And while the story was a rehash of two or three previously told stories they were wowed by the visual feast JG served up. I would also suggest that JC has never been about testing ones grey matter. But neither was the HL. Your going to see another new film later this year called Georgia and it's going to have a serious bias towards one sides PoV.

[ink]

No blue people, toy line, ripped off plots, cheesy one liner script, 3D?

no fake girls too oogle at :rolleyes:

[LOTRFan]

Are you 12?

I just want to watch another video. :monkey5

[Valfar]

Hahahahaha!

[Something Sexy]

I would suggest alot of Avatar fans are fans of James Cameron and what he has done in general for the movie industry. And while the story was a rehash of two or three previously told stories they were wowed by the visual feast JG served up. I would also suggest that JC has never been about testing ones grey matter. But neither was the HL. Your going to see another new film later this year called Georgia and it's going to have a serious bias towards one sides PoV.

Agreed for the most part. I am JC fan more than an Avatar fan.

I just want to watch another video. :monkey5

:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl

[Karma]

i think bigelow deserved best director but best film should have been Inglourious Basterds and Colin Firth should have won instead of Jeff Bridges

avatar's reward was it's box office returns and technical achievement oscars, thoroughly entertaining film but not the most original

[Atilla the Professor]

I agree with you Karma about Avatar. It was a spectacular film imo and the technical oscars it won are well deserved, but in terms of overall film making and storytelling there were better films.

I thought Jeff Bridges deserved the Oscar. He's been nominated I think 4 times before and he did a fantastic job in Crazy Heart. If Colin Firth had won I certainly wouldn't have been disappointed though, as he too was deserving. Doesn't he seem like just a nice dude? Eh, whatever.

[316what]

Ok, it has been 7 days....can't we find a more current topic to debate?:lol

[EVILFACE]

You don't have to come into the thread then.

[Jen]

I love NCIS, and my mother is addicted to it. She watches all the reruns on USA over and over again.

I love NCIS. Just watched a marathon of it last Sunday. :D

[Jen]

I agree with you Karma about Avatar. It was a spectacular film imo and the technical oscars it won are well deserved, but in terms of overall film making and storytelling there were better films.

I thought Jeff Bridges deserved the Oscar. He's been nominated I think 4 times before and he did a fantastic job in Crazy Heart. If Colin Firth had won I certainly wouldn't have been disappointed though, as he too was deserving. Doesn't he seem like just a nice dude? Eh, whatever.

:lecture I concur! I'm very happy Bridges won the Oscar but would have also been happy to see Firth win. Same thing with Bullock and Streep and the Hurt Locker and IB.

I do feel IB should have gotten best screenplay - I think it deserved it a little more than the competition.

[Atilla the Professor]

Yeah, I agree. Mark Boal did a great job with the script for Hurt Locker and he wound a very tight film about this small team of men, but Tarantino crafts dialogue like no other.

The scene at the beginning of Inglorious Basterds, where Landa talks over a glass of milk is just as tense as when Jeremy Renner is defusing that car bomb outside the UN building. When a writer manages to pull that off, they deserve the credit (imo).

Still, everyone who won this year was deserving. By the way, did you hear that joke from the director who won for best foreign film? "I'm just glad the Academy didn't consider Naiive (or h/o you spell it) a foreign language" That cracked me up.

[The Ween]

I love NCIS. Just watched a marathon of it last Sunday. :D

They play it alot on USA and if there's nothing else on, Mom will watch it. Same with the CSI shows. It used to be all the Law and Order shows but she burned herself out on them. She's in the rehab center because she had knee replacement surgery. I know she's feeling better because she cusses at the tv whenever DiNozzo picks on McGee. :lol

[CelticPredator]

I watched one episode...the production values are terrible....

So whats so good about it? Serious question...not a bait post.

[Dusty]

The scene at the beginning of Inglorious Basterds, where Landa talks over a glass of milk is just as tense as when Jeremy Renner is defusing that car bomb outside the UN building. When a writer manages to pull that off, they deserve the credit (imo).


Quoted for truth.

[CelticPredator]

I love the line where he describes the hatrid for the jews. Spot on.

[Atilla the Professor]

Yeah Hans Landa is probably the best cinematic villian that I've seen in the past few years. The quirky confidence and cold intellect he brings to every scene in Inglorious Basterds was so original and different from all the cardboard cut out villains you see in other films. Very refreshing.

And thank you very much Dusty, I'm glad you agree =D

[The Ween]

I watched one episode...the production values are terrible....

So whats so good about it? Serious question...not a bait post.

Production values are terrible? How so for tv?

You can't judge a tv program by one show anyway and it's improved over the seasons.

It has good characters and stories. IMO.

[The ill Jedi]

How can anyone dislike The Hurt Locker? It was totally amazing. :confused:
I'd say if you're a huge fan of Avatar, that'd do it.

Are you 12?
No blue people, toy line, ripped off plots, cheesy one liner script, 3D?
:lol

People don't dislike the movie but they are amazed by the hyperbole. Better war movies than this haven't even been nominated. Better movie in foreign language section of Oscars. Etc. Just as Avatar film fanatics are full of hype the same can be levelled at the fanboys of the HL.
Look, I loved Hurt Locker, but I never went into every thread saying, "Oh my God, Hurt Locker is the GREATEST MOVIE EVER!!!!". It was IMO, one of the best films of last year and I felt it was the most deserving of the Best Picture Nominees. I also don't think that this movie was overhyped, a lot of people never even saw it until it hit Blu-Ray DVD, what you saw as hype was from all the attention it was getting throughout awards season.

[LOTRFan]

Look, I loved Hurt Locker, but I never went into every thread saying, "Oh my God, Hurt Locker is the GREATEST MOVIE EVER!!!!". It was IMO, one of the best films of last year and I felt it was the most deserving of the Best Picture Nominees. I also don't think that this movie was overhyped, a lot of people never even saw it until it hit Blu-Ray DVD, what you saw as hype was from all the attention it was getting throughout awards season.

There does seem to be some confusion over the level of enthusiasm for The Hurt Locker and that of Avatar; one is clearly the superior film but it doesn't have nearly the same rabid fanbase - it is after all the lowest grossing Best Picture of all time.

I would have been happy with Inglorious or District 9 (long shot that it was) winning.

[BadMoon]

Chak haks daku numb ___!

I just want everyone to know that this morning I woke up and coated my entire body with blue paint. I then put a loin cloth on and stuck feathers out of every opening in my body. This is to include me pee hole. I now fully intend to go to the movie theater and watch Avatar as many times as they are showing it. This cleary was and is the best movie ever made. No other movie will or has topped it.

Nukka tochuk wakka wakka wakka.

[occulum]

FF>> 10yrs and this will be known as the year Inglorious Basterds didnt win the BP Oscar like it shouldve. ...

Avatar will have enough clones out to make you sick of the first. (even tho its pretty much a clone itself)

Hurt Locker, while still a GREAT war movie, will be known as just that "Another great war movie" in amongst MANY great war movies that have been made over the years.

But the gem of the Basterds will still hold its own in originality and creativity with no other film comparable being released.... :monkey1

[BadMoon]

I miss Howard. :lol

While recapping the Academy Awards on his Sirius satellite radio show Monday, Howard Stern said some controversial words about best actress nominee Gabourey Sidibe.

Stern, focused on the part of Sunday's show when the camera cut to the five actresses up for the Oscar, including Sidibe, whom he referred to as "the most enormous, fat black chick I’ve ever seen."

"You feel bad because everyone pretends that she’s part of show business and she’s never going to be in another movie," Stern added. "What movie is she going to be in? ‘Blind Side 2,’ she could be the football player.”


Howard accused Oprah Winfrey, who introduced Sidibe at the Oscars when the best actress nominees were announced, of lying to Sidibe. “When we look at you,” Winfrey told the 26-year-old from the Oscars stage, “we see a true, American Cinderella who’s on the threshold of a brilliant new career.”

Stern disagreed. “She told an enormous woman the size of a planet that she’s going to have a career,” he said during his broadcast. “Oprah should’ve said, ‘you need to get help, we don’t want to lose you.’ "

For Stern, Sidibe’s size is not just a problem for her career, but her health as well.

“You just want to say to her, listen, honey, now that you’ve got a little money in the bank go get yourself thin, because you’re going to die in three years,” he said.

A recording of the show has been posted on YouTube, and reactions have ranged from disgust to agreement.

One YouTube user commented that Stern was only saying what everyone else is thinking, while another found Stern’s remarks, regardless of their validity, to be unnecessary. Another wrote, “It’s not like what he’s saying is totally untrue, but he’s so rude and mean about it.” A Gone Hollywood blogger said that while he isn't going to pretend that Sidibe won't have a hard time in Hollywood because of her size, it looks like Stern is picking on an easy target.

[creature4000]

Star Trek should have won!

[Khev]

There does seem to be some confusion over the level of enthusiasm for The Hurt Locker and that of Avatar; one is clearly the superior film

I agree. And so did the Hollywood Foreign Press. :)

[Bullseye]

Yeah, I agree. Mark Boal did a great job with the script for Hurt Locker and he wound a very tight film about this small team of men, but Tarantino crafts dialogue like no other.

The scene at the beginning of Inglorious Basterds, where Landa talks over a glass of milk is just as tense as when Jeremy Renner is defusing that car bomb outside the UN building. When a writer manages to pull that off, they deserve the credit (imo).

Still, everyone who won this year was deserving. By the way, did you hear that joke from the director who won for best foreign film? "I'm just glad the Academy didn't consider Naiive (or h/o you spell it) a foreign language" That cracked me up.

That was a fantastic scene.

[Shai]

Can anyone with a normal I.Q. can really say that Avatar was a better movie than Inglorious Bastard...:duh

[Bullseye]

A better question would be is HL better than IB? And are either infact great?

[LChinoz]

After watching both again, I say IMO IB was a superior film from beginning to end. I liked HL when I first saw it, but it is not made for repeat viewings. I do feel last year was a pretty weak year for films overall.

[IrishJedi]

A better question would be is HL better than IB? And are either infact great?

They're both great movies. I personally would give BASTERDS the nod, but either was worthy of the Best Picture award this year, imho.

[Nitro]

I didn't care for Hurt Locker....although I didn't loathe it like I did with Slumdog Millionaire last year.

[BadMoon]

I didn't care for Hurt Locker....although I didn't loathe it like I did with Slumdog Millionaire last year.

Wow I really liked Slumdog Millionaire. :dunno

[IronFingaz]

Wow I really liked Slumdog Millionaire. :dunno

As did i, Gheybook. Great movie :lecture

[Karma]

Wow I really liked Slumdog Millionaire. :dunno

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[CelticPredator]

Can anyone with a normal I.Q. can really say that Avatar was a better movie than Inglorious Bastard...:duh

:clap:

It is impossible.

[Atilla the Professor]

Yeah I really liked Slumdog Millionaire.

As an owner of both Inglorious Basterds and Hurt Locker I've gotta say IG is obviously the more enjoyable film, but only because HL wasn't made to be a high-octane action movie, but more like a dissection of how these brave men deal with the dangers they face day in and day out.

That being said, the sniper scene from Hurt Locker was in-freakin-tense. I haven't seen a fight that realistic put on the big screen since Saving Private Ryan. Great cameo from Ralph Feines too.

[Mesa]

So I just finished watching the movie "Precious" that I got off of Red Box tonight.


wow.... what a powerful film. I don't get caught up emotionally in too many films, but this movie was fantastic. Really make you appreciate how lucky most of us are to have what we have and live a mostly comfortable and safe life. Also puts into perspective what other people may be going through that most of us wouldn't even think of or imagine.