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View Full Version : How long is too long for a refund?



RogueCylon
10-01-2009, 07:26 PM
I was doing a transaction that involved a lot of money. $2500 to be exact. I agreed with the seller to a deposit and then the rest within about three weeks. He prompted me on several occasions to pay extra payments during the month to "pay for other stuff", I helped him out. At the end of the month I paid him in full and he agreed to send the package "within a few days", a few days passed and he said the box was in storage and he would need a few more days to retrieve. I was puzzled at this seeing as he had taken my deposit a month before and spent that. In my mind that meant he had better be getting the package together to ship.

3 weeks passed, I PM'd him several times, saw him posting here, but he basically ignored my posts. So after 4 days I requested a refund. We went back and forth and he finally agreed to "pay within the week". I had opened Paypal disputes to ensure that the refund happened. Immediately he asked me to close the Paypal disputes as that was crippling his account and people could not pay in for him to refund me. I did this for him as a goodwill gesture. It has been 2 weeks now, all I have seen so far is $1000 back. He still has the other $1500 and it seems that I'm the one doing all the asking, for the past month.

How long would you give someone for a refund of your own money?

Amazingly his last correspondence with me, he cut and pasted some prior PMs in a fashion that he felt showed that he had done me a favour waiting for my payment. The PMs were out of context as I have saved each and everyone.

I haven't posted much here recently because of the sour taste this has left me with.

Note: I have not and will not name names here.

915stag51
10-01-2009, 07:38 PM
I would give someone 2 hours to refund my money...If you paid through paypal, just open up a claim and he will reply to your emails lickity split...

karamazov80
10-01-2009, 07:43 PM
Based on what I see here, I would not have closed that dispute if I were you. I would have expected money back faster than 3 weeks if it was owed. Since it seems like it is a refund and not payment for an item, I would expect it ASAP.

King Darkness
10-01-2009, 07:43 PM
Sounds like bull^^^^!!!!

Should have refunded you right away.

galactiboy
10-01-2009, 08:54 PM
I agree with King... sounds like you are getting hosed. You should not have closed that Paypal dispute. By doing that you may have impacted your ability to recoup your money.

RogueCylon
10-01-2009, 08:56 PM
I would give someone 2 hours to refund my money...If you paid through paypal, just open up a claim and he will reply to your emails lickity split...

I did and then he claimed that not only had that created restrictions on his Paypal, but had also placed his eBay account into a not registered state. Causing existing sales to go on hold. He asked me to remove that restriction so he could have me the fund within a few days. I notified Paypal that he had promised to pay and removed the deputes. That was on the 24th. And still no sign of full payment.

galactiboy
10-01-2009, 09:01 PM
So, if he had your money there is no reason he couldn't repay you... not your problem that he can't sell stuff to repay the money of yours he spent. I'd be concerned that removing that claim may make it so you can not re-open a new one. Honestly I would not have done the same.

And obviously it was not a good call as you still are out $1500.

915stag51
10-01-2009, 09:10 PM
I did and then he claimed that not only had that created restrictions on his Paypal, but had also placed his eBay account into a not registered state. Causing existing sales to go on hold. He asked me to remove that restriction so he could have me the fund within a few days. I notified Paypal that he had promised to pay and removed the deputes. That was on the 24th. And still no sign of full payment.

This is why you open a claim, so his money and paypal freezes til ou get what is owed to ou, if you closed the claim you are pretty much SOL...this happened to me 1 week ago over 1k I payed on some NFL tickets, the guy never answered my emails or phone call til I openned the claim he gave me a call within 2 hours, then I got my refund....

tnaig001
10-01-2009, 09:20 PM
sorry this is happening to you. :( I hope you get the money back. If not, good luck to the guy when karma comes a-knocking.

Balsquat
10-02-2009, 03:40 PM
sorry this is happening to you. :( I hope you get the money back. If not, good luck to the guy when karma comes a-knocking.

For real. And you should not protect the good name of someone who does nto care to clear their own by paying you back in my opinion.

RogueCylon
10-02-2009, 03:56 PM
For real. And you should not protect the good name of someone who does nto care to clear their own by paying you back in my opinion.

If I were to post his name the mods would delete this thread. So lets keep it at that.

I am presently consulting with an attorney on my choices of recourse. That's how I really feel about this. I would generally never instigate this kind of action against a fellow collector. But over the past 5 weeks I have had nothing but excuses, delays, and total avoidance from the seller. I have had to ask at every step for an update and a for my money back. That's not cool.

If a person puts down a deposit you better be ready to ship something when a large amount is in issue. If by the time of final payment you go into hiding for 3 weeks, then that means you are just using the buyer as an ATM machine. If after all that its still 2 weeks without a refund then you are pissing on that member. At this point his actions are well in excess of any excuse.

I've heard the "I was busy at work over the weekend". Well I know what he does. I have also done that type of work, and I'm far busier these days. Its not an excuse, especially after 8 weeks.

RogueCylon
10-02-2009, 04:30 PM
I just got off the phone with Paypal who were great. They have seen where he was in direct violation of the agreement and have reopened the cases for the remaining $1500 still outstanding. That's step one. Step two will be coming early next week.

creecher
10-02-2009, 05:05 PM
The signals were flashing very early on in this saga. Lucky for you Paypal reopened the dispute or you would have been pretty much screwed. Obtaining legal advice isn't a cost effective way of handling this. Maybe try small claims tribunal if it doesn't work out, or apply to Judge Judy.

You missed an opportunity to obtain a further refund by closing the initial dispute. You should have had Paypal send you the suspended funds when you had the chance. I'd be naming names, for a starter, if he doesn't refund you immediately. Down with douches.

mr.thrifty
10-02-2009, 05:22 PM
I'd be naming names, for a starter, if he doesn't refund you immediately. Down with douches.

Nothing wrong with a call out thread if it's warranted. you're talking about $1500...:google

RogueCylon
10-02-2009, 06:10 PM
Out of respect for the forum I would not do any call out unless Dave (owner) felt it was warranted and allowed it. As I have said, if I name who it is then the thread will be deleted. He knows the issues.

In summary:

Aug 3rd - Solicted by seller that he has an Ardeth Bey bust to sell. And whether I would be interested. Of course this is a holy grail item for me.
Aug 4th - Agree to $2500 with initial deposit paid on 4th with a commitment to pay rest around the end of the month
Aug 8th - Additional funds as he needed money for another transaction
Aug 20th - Another early payment as seller wanted to buy something else. I sold stock to cover this. I wanted to ensure a smooth transaction per my 100% record here and on ebay since 1998
Sept 1st - Final payment
Sept 3rd - Note from seller "I will get Ardeth boxed up this weekend and shipped out on Tuesday". Stating that the box was in storage hence the delay. Quite acceptable and I made no comment of any issue. But he should have started the recovery of the box a month before when he took my money.
Sept 17th - Asked for an update as he had made zero attempt to ship this or notify me of issues having had 16 days to ship.
Sept 18th - noticed that he had been active on the forum for several days but refused to answer my PMs
Sept 19th - Still no answer to PMs on the status of shipping
Sept 21st - Requested a refund as it had been 7 weeks since first payment and 3 weeks since final payment with no attempt to ship.
Sept 22nd - Seller responded with astonishment that I should want a refund! But stated "I will refund your money but it will take a few days to put money into my account."
Sept 22nd - Also open Paypal disputes to protect both myself and the seller on Paypal costs.
Sept 23rd - Response from seller - "It should be Monday or Tuesday" - for the refund. I asked for clarification of the latest - "Should be less than a week"
Sept 24th - Seller complained about paypal restrictions and effect on ebay account. I removed these immediately within the hour to ensure that the seller would continue the refund. Response from seller - "Thanks for helping with this matter and I will have the refunds to you as agreed"
Sept 28th - Refund of $1000, still $1500 to account for. Seller states "I'm waiting on a couple of payments from others, so if one or both come in today, I'll refund more today"
Sept 29th - After 4 weeks since final payment and a week since the seller promised a full refund I asked the seller for final payment again "I could really use the payment today". Seller responds "I'll do my best..."

I'm still waiting while the seller has enjoyed spending my money.

Darklord Dave
10-02-2009, 11:36 PM
As many might realize there are always two sides to every story. When someone backs out of a deal, especially when it is a large ticket item, there are consequences on both sides.

RogueCylon
10-03-2009, 06:35 AM
As many might realize there are always two sides to every story. When someone backs out of a deal, especially when it is a large ticket item, there are consequences on both sides.

How is there two sides to the story when I just posted the exact sequence of events? Tell me because I would really like to know.

For clarification I did not back out of any deal. Let me say that again very clearly; I did not back out of any deal.

From the moment I paid the final installment as agreed the statue should have been shipped to me as agreed. It's one thing to be a little slow to get the package put together and shipped. It's entirely a different matter to not bother communicating to a person for over 3 weeks, when they have paid $2500.

At some point the deal goes into default. And this is what happened. When the mod had made zero attempt to ship or communicate in over 3 weeks. And when he was active on this forum but ignoring my requests for status for an additional 4 days. That's when the deal defaulted.

I wanted that Statue. But I will be damned if I'm going to be used as a cash machine with the guy having zero intention of shipping me anything.

Even when you baseline all of that. He agreed to refund me within a week. Every step of the way he has failed in his commitment. His word means nothing, nada, zip. Paypal agreed with me and said they wished they could close his account.

So I ask: Where is the other side to this story? Because each and every statement I can back up with cold hard fact.

Dave are you saying you condone someone not communicating or bothering to ship something out for a extended period of time in a significant money transaction? Do you condone that when a person commits to something they can simply let it slip and disappear when they don't want to face the issue?

I have been more than charitable on this. When a deal defaults it needs to be rectified immediately or with urgency. The person owed should not be the one to have to beg for their money.

-Super Hans-
10-03-2009, 10:36 AM
At some point the deal goes into default. And this is what happened. When the mod had made zero attempt to ship or communicate in over 3 weeks. And when he was active on this forum but ignoring my requests for status for an additional 4 days.

seems like a strange way for a MOD to act :dunno is there a reasonable explaination??

RogueCylon
10-03-2009, 12:34 PM
No, no reasonable explanation was ever made. The only reasonable explanation would be pure procrastination and no respect for the person that had scraped together the monies.

He approached me to sell this, not the other way around. When he said "I'm only selling this to pay for other stuff" that he wanted to buy.

Seller - "I completely understand about the price... as I mentioned, I kind of priced it high because of not really wanting to sell it".

I even went as far to say that I would give him a small short term loan as a fellow collector if he did not want to sell this. He said he wanted to sell this to me and put the cash on other items. All I wanted was a smooth transaction, when a large amount is involved the last thing you want is drama.

pixletwin
10-03-2009, 05:12 PM
This sounds like ****. But it has nothing to do with me. :lecture

Shai
10-03-2009, 08:00 PM
You hve been scammed IMO and need to tell us the name of the person who did this to you.So eveybody should be aware of this person.

Balsquat
10-03-2009, 08:28 PM
I don't even care about hearing 2 sides of the story. What I choose to do with information is my own choice, but it should be shared.

p!tu
10-03-2009, 10:51 PM
yep! i had a similar experience and it took me 3 months to get my $325 back. you better get your money back cause the seller has been ^^^^ing up big time!!!:monkey4:monkey4:monkey4:monkey4:mad:

mr.thrifty
10-03-2009, 11:12 PM
Sept 3rd - Note from seller "I will get Ardeth boxed up this weekend and shipped out on Tuesday". Stating that the box was in storage hence the delay. Quite acceptable and I made no comment of any issue. But he should have started the recovery of the box a month before when he took my money

Want to buy (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61072)

For sale (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64204&highlight=Ardeth)
......?......:dunno

RogueCylon
10-04-2009, 09:07 AM
Want to buy (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61072)

For sale (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64204&highlight=Ardeth)
......?......:dunno

I'm sure the seller will be willing to take your money for a couple of months. You should see the package within about 3 months if he feels like it. That is on past form after I have reviewed his history and spoken to others.

I have no doubt that opinion will be swayed if people knew the seller. Which is indicative of status on a forum.

He switched off communicating with me again after being way past his committed latest repayment date.

9/22 - "I will refund your money but it will take a few days to put money into my account."

Another day, more stress on my own funds.

Jen
10-04-2009, 10:50 AM
Sorry to hear about this. It sounds like you are taking the appropriate steps to get your money back. What recourse is paypal offering? Did they set a time frame for when he needs to repay you before they take the money from his account?

Anyway, again sorry to hear about this. It's always disappointing when you see fellow collectors on this board getting the run around. I hope you get the rest of your money back soon.

xenofreak
10-04-2009, 02:18 PM
:banghead

From my past Paypal disputes, Paypal was only able to refund me from the money in the sellers Paypal account. I would get no money refunded if I won the dispute/claim, but seller didn't have funds in his Paypal account.:mad: This is the policy for non-Ebay transactions, unless something has changed.:(
If payment was made with credit card through Paypal, the credit card will do a charge back to Paypal and the amount credited back to your card. :o

viezure
10-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Is the person responsable a mod here?

creecher
10-04-2009, 04:18 PM
That's the whole problem. Not taking a stance to defend oneself tarnishes all mods. Not coming forward to explain the other side of the story, feeds the opinion that, perhaps, there is no defense. The longer this goes on the worse it will get. Without an explanation, peoples opinions will consolidate. Salvaging ones reputation will be all the more difficult.

ozzfan84
10-04-2009, 04:51 PM
Given this information Id be wary of doing any business with a Mod from here

Locked thread for naming names ? Based on this side of the story not naming names should make us all think 'avoid all mods'


Why is everyone saying it was a mod? Where is this coming from?

I could be wrong, but I think I remember one time, though, a mod locking a thread about Statue Toys charging CCs and not shipping anything, and saying the people complaining were trouble makers. A few months later, Statue Toys disappeared off the face of the earth and a lot of people who couldn't file a cc chargeback lost their money. That's not shadyness though, he/she just happened to take the wrong side of one of the many internet arguments that are bound to happen when people are buying and selling online.

Anyways, I've traded with mods here in the past, and they all appear to be very standup ladies and gentlemen. I would be very surprised if this was a mod; and if he or she is, I know it is someone I haven't traded with in the past.

creecher
10-04-2009, 05:05 PM
Why is everyone saying it was a mod? Where is this coming from?
Refer post 17

At some point the deal goes into default. And this is what happened. When the mod had made zero attempt to ship or communicate in over 3 weeks.


Rogue Cylon isn't posting names, as he's trying to avoid the thread from being deleted, like it was the first time he attempted to bring this issue to light. Who deleted the thread? It all starts looking very suspect.

ProgMatinee
10-04-2009, 06:20 PM
sounds like a stupid idea to me to make payments for something over the internet with an individual. either you have the money or you shouldn't buy it.

on the other hand, sounds like a bad move on a sellers part not trying very hard to complete the deal and get the item shipped.

ridimous
10-04-2009, 07:12 PM
Sounds like the seller is a freaking thief. I say open up that dispute again until he sells his kidney to pay you back.

kain4521
10-04-2009, 07:34 PM
I was gonna keep quiet on this but I don't want to see anyone get thrown under the bus for something they did not do. Dave or any other mod did not delete the original thread I did on the basis that it was a private matter between the buyer and the seller. I wasn't playing favorites or trying to protect anyone as I would have done it for anyone on the board because I think it could be handled through PM's. This is not some mass scam or someone trying to steal money from another board member I think it has just been a bad deal for everyone involved. The OP is doing what he has to to protect himself and IMO it should have been the end of it.

RogueCylon
10-04-2009, 08:13 PM
Jay you don't need to explain yourself. What you did was correct and I was wrong to post his name in that previous thread.

It was at a time weeks ago when I had not heard from him and for days I saw him posting on the forum and not answering my PMs. That's when I reached out to try and get his attention. When someone ignores your PMs and emails you know you have an issue. Especially when they go about happy as anything posting on the forum.

I have traded with other mods here and had some of the smoothest and most pleasant transactions possible. This is not an issue with the forum. It just sadly involves someone here.

RogueCylon
10-04-2009, 08:21 PM
sounds like a stupid idea to me to make payments for something over the internet with an individual. either you have the money or you shouldn't buy it.

on the other hand, sounds like a bad move on a sellers part not trying very hard to complete the deal and get the item shipped.

In essence I agree with you. I had no intention of buying anything at the time he approached me. But it was a grail item and a low number so I bit my lip and did the deal. It would have been a no brainer a week or two before as I did around 8 deals at that time. Regardless paying in one payment or over a period of time. The issue was the non-communication and lack of any effort to ship in more than 3 weeks after he collected the money. 7 weeks in total at that time after he received the first payment. He should have been more than ready to ship.

Since I requested a refund on Sept 22nd I have heard time and time again "a couple of days". I'm tired of all this mess.

lcummins
10-05-2009, 07:35 AM
The transaction is between him and me. Believe what you will, but you've only heard his side of the story. He will get his refund, and in less time than it took him to make the payments to me.

RogueCylon
10-05-2009, 07:56 AM
The transaction is between him and me. Believe what you will, but you've only heard his side of the story. He will get his refund, and in less time than it took him to make the payments to me.

I would love to hear your side :)

Let's start with the "He will get his refund, and in less time than it took him to make the payments to me."

1. You solicited me and I told you straight up that I didn't have the funds to do an instant transaction. You suggested payments.
2. This is not a "I will repay you in the same timeframe as you loaned me the money" scenario.
3. You never delivered anything.
4. You committed to shipping me the Statue "in a few days". Result - Never happened.
5. You committed to refunding me my money "in a few days". Result - Never happened.

King Darkness
10-05-2009, 08:19 AM
I've never actually seen a real Canadian :dunno

ProgMatinee
10-05-2009, 11:02 AM
in the real world it wouldn't be too much to ask for interest in addition to a refund if in effect the seller just wanted to use your funds as a short term loan. The rates at http://www.internetpawn.com/about/rates are 5% per month. 1 month on $2500 is $125.

Adoptedscot
10-05-2009, 12:29 PM
Can you guys please stop the picture spamming. This is a serious matter and there is no need for the thread being interrupted.

Many thanks
x :peace

quadcent
10-05-2009, 04:15 PM
Can you guys please stop the picture spamming. This is a serious matter and there is no need for the thread being interrupted.

Many thanks
x :peace

well now, that sure killed the thread now.:naughty:naughty

j/k :monkey3 it does sound to me like this matter is going to get resolved though. good luck to both

carbo-fation
10-05-2009, 04:19 PM
What's his forum ID so I can block him from future sales?

RogueCylon
10-05-2009, 04:26 PM
it does sound to me like this matter is going to get resolved though. good luck to both

Hopefully. I'm just at the mercy of what he deems as the new deadline for a refund. Seems I have to wait as long as I took to make payments. Wow, that sounds like such a fair deal for a loan!

No apologies for the lack of shipping. No apologies for the time it's taking to refund. I hope he enjoyed using my money.

quadcent
10-05-2009, 06:24 PM
unless of course you get a cash advance from one of them payday advance places. i think they're around 15% per month at least.:horror:horror

RogueCylon
10-06-2009, 05:57 AM
Sept 21 - Refund Requested after 3 weeks of no shipping and no communication
Sept 22 - Seller promised full refund within a few days
Sept 23 - No refund
Sept 24 - No refund
Sept 25 - No refund
Sept 26 - No refund
Sept 27 - No refund
Sept 28 - No refund
Sept 29 - No refund
Sept 30 - No refund
Oct 1 - No Refund
Oct 2 - No Refund
Oct 3 - No Refund
Oct 4 - No Refund
Oct 5 - No Refund
Oct 6 - No Refund

lcummins
10-06-2009, 06:37 AM
Sept 21 - Refund Requested after 3 weeks of no shipping and no communication
Sept 22 - Seller promised full refund within a few days
Sept 23 - No refund
Sept 24 - No refund
Sept 25 - No refund
Sept 26 - No refund
Sept 27 - No refund
Sept 28 - No refund
Sept 29 - No refund
Sept 30 - No refund
Oct 1 - No Refund
Oct 2 - No Refund
Oct 3 - No Refund
Oct 4 - No Refund
Oct 5 - No Refund
Oct 6 - No Refund


As I stated... you're only getting his side of the story. I did in fact refund 2 of the 4 payments he made to me, on Sept. 28., for $1000. The rest will be refunded. This is the last I'll say about the matter on the open board because it is between me and him and he will get his refund.

RogueCylon
10-06-2009, 11:15 AM
As I stated... you're only getting his side of the story. I did in fact refund 2 of the 4 payments he made to me, on Sept. 28., for $1000. The rest will be refunded. This is the last I'll say about the matter on the open board because it is between me and him and he will get his refund.

Already stated that, $1000 does not equal refund in my books. That's a partial payment and you sir are well past the agreed refund time. If you had refunded everything on the 28th, then the only issue there would have been was why you made zero effort to send me the statue after I paid.

And as I have said I was love to hear your side of the story and how it differs from mine.

RogueCylon
10-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Honesty goes a long way in my books. If you had been open with your needs I would have understood. I understand none of your actions to date.

I even offered you a loan at one stage. I'm not sure how much more reasonable I could have been.


As I stated... you're only getting his side of the story.

I feel you are questioning my integrity on this and saying that I am not telling the truth. I find that very offensive. On top of all the issues we have had here and my money that you have spent. You are saying that there is another story. Never an apology.

creecher
10-06-2009, 06:03 PM
Well there may be two sides to the story, but if you have the opportunity and aren't telling your side, then there's only one. The one that makes you look bad.

I can understand not wanting to play out private dealings publicly, but now that it is, you're want has been totally compromised.

Cylon is going to get his refund, at a time when it suits you. Problem = solved. Understanding and enlightenment = zip.

RogueCylon
10-07-2009, 06:48 AM
Sounds to me like you're an attention whore who won't settle issues privately and likes to air his dirty laundry publicly.

:rolleyes:

Lonnie is really being the stand up guy here and is doing the right thing not saying anything. Much more of a man than you seem to be...

I opened this thread out of frustration. And the fact that he would not communicate with me or days/weeks privately. And when he did communicate it was without apology or regret.

There is no pleasure in this for me, quite the opposite in fact. I am sure that very few people like me around here anymore. And all I wanted was a grail item and to be able to collect in peace.

Thanks.

The ill Jedi
10-07-2009, 06:55 AM
My suggestion for those that don't know the whole story, is don't comment on it. This is a private matter and this Rogue Cylon person should have handled it that way. What good is it gonna do to put this out in public? None.

Now I know NOTHING of this Rogue Cylon, he only joined a year ago and has only 200 posts, now I'm not saying he's a bad person, for all I know he's a great guy. But Lonnie has been here since the beginning of the board and has always been a trustworthy member.

Whenever a noob starts a For Sale thread at his 51st post everyone gets all riled up and starts labeling that person a 'scammer', you guys are accusing a well established and respected member of this community of being one too. Does that mean the minute something goes wrong with a deal we should do the same to you?

I want Rogue to get his money back and I want Lonnie to clear his name, I'm just saying that this is the wrong way to go about it.

RogueCylon
10-07-2009, 07:02 AM
I'm just saying that this is the wrong way to go about it.

I would normally agree. The issue I had was a total lack of urgency and communication on the sellers part when I communicated privately.

This morning I got a communication that I will get the money at some point towards the end of next week. I'm done here.

Karma
10-07-2009, 07:23 AM
My suggestion for those that don't know the whole story, is don't comment on it. This is a private matter and this Rogue Cylon person should have handled it that way. What good is it gonna do to put this out in public? None.

Now I know NOTHING of this Rogue Cylon, he only joined a year ago and has only 200 posts, now I'm not saying he's a bad person, for all I know he's a great guy. But Lonnie has been here since the beginning of the board and has always been a trustworthy member.

Whenever a noob starts a For Sale thread at his 51st post everyone gets all riled up and starts labeling that person a 'scammer', you guys are accusing a well established and respected member of this community of being one too. Does that mean the minute something goes wrong with a deal we should do the same to you?

I want Rogue to get his money back and I want Lonnie to clear his name, I'm just saying that this is the wrong way to go about it.

the sad thing is, i think those people are getting some kinda twisted pleasure from this thread

bagelsncheesey
10-07-2009, 07:44 AM
Lonnie needs to come clean here.If people heard his side of the story, maybe then,we wouldnt be inclined to judge.But by making a point of not talking about this, he's making himself looks guilty.Unfortunately this is how the internets goes.This is why some site like twitter for example got invented: people who were in the middle of nasty rumors could come clean and set the record straight...This is what Lonnie needed to do in the 1st place, tell his story. Obviously at this point, he dont care about his reputation,but he should at least care about the reputation of this board.As a Mod here, he represent authority and must set an example...This fiasco,affect the whole reputation of the Administration here IMO.

I bet if Lonnie would have tell his side of the story here when this thread was created , many people would have probably been inclined to take his side.I know I would.As a senior member ( and a senior citizen), I would have trust him more than the sayin of the N00b.But now, he's in FailVille.

speaking of attention whores...

viezure
10-07-2009, 07:47 AM
This is the last I'll say about the matter on the open board because it is between me and him and he will get his refund.

As an outside observer, this is what bothers me, he doesn't say when he'll pay back and by the looks of it, he doesn't seem to think that this should be his number one priority. It's like, yea yea whatever, he'll get back his money sometime in the future.

galactiboy
10-07-2009, 07:53 AM
I'm not sure what the typical protocol here is for contacting/getting the attention of a member who is not responding to PMs or emails.

I know with some of the situations the "paging" threads have been useful in identifying other parties. But again, these can (like this one) degenerate quickly.

Is it the expectation that matters like this be taken up with the commerce section mod, or Dave; before a thread like this is started? What is the order of steps here?

ozzfan84
10-07-2009, 08:10 AM
the sad thing is, i think those people are getting some kinda twisted pleasure from this thread

Who exactly do you think is enjoying this? Unfortunately, it happens in every online community when people aren't 100% trustworthy.


Trying to keep it going after it's already been announced that it will be dealt with privately = stirring the pot.

Normally, you do it so well! But if we're talking about fails, I think this one's on you.

One party wanting an answer and another party not giving an answer and saying it will be dealt with privately does not = the end of the thread.

kain4521
10-07-2009, 08:27 AM
I'm not sure what the typical protocol here is for contacting/getting the attention of a member who is not responding to PMs or emails.

I know with some of the situations the "paging" threads have been useful in identifying other parties. But again, these can (like this one) degenerate quickly.

Is it the expectation that matters like this be taken up with the commerce section mod, or Dave; before a thread like this is started? What is the order of steps here?

I think it should be handled by a commerce mod or Dave himself. This thread is a good example of why they should never be started in the first place because all it does is make the matter worse than it already is. On one hand you can say "We needed to know so we don't deal with so and so because he don't pay or he never sent the item" but on the other thats why we have the feedback and Itrader system and threads like this are not needed.

I really dont think its any of our business who's side of the story gets told or who done what as long as these two people take care of their business and IMO the only time the board should get involved is when you have someone like Melvin that rips everyone off and then disappears.

ozzfan84
10-07-2009, 08:35 AM
This thread is a good example of why they should never be started in the first place because all it does is make the matter worse than it already is.

Wrong. What this thread did was inform many potential buyers and sellers of a bad situation involving a lot of money. Most transactions on this board don't go for nearly as much, which makes this even more important.

Yeah, there's a feedback thread; but less people would have been informed. Making a situation public always speeds up the resolution process. As I said before, it also works as a preventative, because people won't try to pull stuff like this in the future if they know the public will be made aware of what they did.

If you don't want to read it, just click another thread.

Like I said before, this thread wouldn't keep me from dealing with either party. I think there were specific issues with this unique transaction that lead it to this point. But I sure am glad to know it occured.

thenammagazine
10-07-2009, 08:41 AM
Are people missing the fact that it sadly took RC posting this in public to actually get any response at all from Lonnie, let alone about when he'd get the rest of his refund? Additionally, this brings to light the potential experience one might expect if purchasing something from Lonnie. So while I'd agree that in most cases, dirty laundry shouldn't get aired, in these cases, I think it's not only warranted, but crucial to inform/protect the rest of the community.

Whatever Lonnie's story is, he's not making it public which, TBH, especially with what RC had to resort to to actually get him to talk, isn't making matters look good. This is Shai's point. While I don't agree with Shai's thinking that it tarnishes the reputation of anyone else here, he's right about one thing. It does make Lonnie look shady. :(

devlinboy
10-07-2009, 08:41 AM
in a big money deal like this, i think threads like this are necessary. It lets you see problems people have had so that if you are ever in a similar situation you can at least have a few examples of how to fix it or how to get your money back. And if noone is answering your PMs, what else are you supposed to do?

Bannister
10-07-2009, 09:01 AM
I can say with absolute certainty that this guy will get his money back. I can also say with absolute certainty that Lonnie wasn't out to scam anyone. The only issue I have is the alleged 3 weeks to ship without communication. Since I have not heard Lonnie's side, I have no idea why it was taking so long to ship.

occulum
10-07-2009, 09:14 AM
This kind of thinking is a part of an issue I see with the way people handle things on this board.

I've spent years on a guitar forum where trading reputation is everything; and where if you screwed up EVERYONE would know about it for better or worse. In that case, we're dealing with instruments worth in the upwards of 3-4k. It's necessary for full disclosure all the time.

If someone does something shady with a transaction, the board should know. People should be able to know that issues like this have occured should they want to enter a transaction with someone else. On this board, they tend to just delete threads where buyers or sellers accuse each other of poor business practices.

Put it all out there and let the people of the board make an educated decision.



Yes. It does.

In fact, it would be better if people had to worry about issues being aired out in public, because they'd be less likely to pull shady tricks in the first place, in fear that it could happen to them.

Look at the Statue Toys issue. People here were accusing them of stealing their money. It was locked by a mod, who called the accusers "troublemakers." In a few months, Statue Toys disappeared off the face of the earth and people lost their money for good.

I don't care if someone has 1 post or 10,000 posts. That should have no influence on how trustworthy a person is. And to be fair to Rogue, he didn't post this "the minute somethin went wrong"... according to the timeline, this is a long drawn out conflict.

I believe that Rogue will get all of his money back. But I also understand his frustration. Would this influence my decision in dealing with Lonnie or Rogue in the future? Probably not; but I like knowing this happened so I could make an informed decision before sending money or products.

this was the best post in the thread IMO.

Pretty much sums my opinion up.
From the outside looking in, it seems maybe the seller just made a mistake by not shipping it out in a timely manner which irritated/worried RC to want a refund.
Then, obviously, the seller had used some of said funds already and now is trying to secure the funds for the refund and isnt going as fast as he'd hoped.

I could see myself getting in the same situation given the right circumstances. The key is to be up front and apologetic even if its a bad situation and to keep the communication lines wide open the entire time.

I do think its good to post it in the open. but the repercussions are the spamming the thread could induce.

Maybe in the Commerce section, stickies could be posted for these situations so everyone is aware, but noone is able to post in the thread. And then its updated by Admin as to status of the transaction.?

All in all, Im 100% sure the money will be returned. He's a stand up guy who just seems to have accidentally tripped into a sour transaction that all started because of a lag in shipment after final payment.

creecher
10-07-2009, 05:32 PM
When you have dirty laundry it makes sense to air it out. It's part of the cleansing process.

As always there's two sides to every story. The washer wants his stuff clean and the garments would rather not have the embarrassment of everyone knowing how dirty they are. Once the garments have had a good scrub, it is hoped the stains will come out.

Imagine if they never showed you how good the results of using nappy san were. You'd never know whites could get whiter and stains could be dissolved.

There's only one person that can defend Lonnie, and that's himself. On the surface it appears his actions are indefensible, though some would deny Cylon his last gasp of ensuring things get sorted. Behind the scenes it is impossible to say how long the process of getting a refund would take. By airing it, it puts pressure on Lonnie to act within a more appropriate time frame. Without it, taking a Chris Howes stance of 'however long it takes', which isn't an acceptable retort, is standing on a principle none of us can empathise with. Particularly, with undefended promises that certain actions would take place by certain times and those promises not being kept.

By stating he doesn't care about his reputation he is bordering on having extorted these monies, whilst sitting in a position of authority, on this board, which is the point P!tu is supporting. Threads disappearing, posts being deleted. Who by? Mods manipulating a situation? No, not likely, but none the less still possibly.

Why am I arguing the point, again, in this fashion, when it has nothing to do with me? Because I am interested in what the possible defense, or other story if there is one, could possibly be. That's enough for me, and all the other non involved parties, need, to bother to reply in this thread.

creecher
10-07-2009, 05:36 PM
..........

devlinboy
10-07-2009, 06:18 PM
your confused...p!tu was washing monies in return for dirty laundry

Darklord Dave
10-07-2009, 09:04 PM
Okay, I've cleaned up this thread of most of the idiocy and crap. If it dealt with anyone else I would just delete it outright because of all the idiots sticking their noses in trying to stir up ^^^^ when it's none of their business. But I know that I would be accused of favoritism if I did that, so I'll leave and even leave it open. But the next person that posts something that is trolling or a popcorn eating will be banned.

tnaig001
10-08-2009, 12:22 AM
actually, i think the better thing might have been to contact Dave or a commerce mod and take the issue up with them first.

When I first joined the board I had a few transactions where the seller did not send my stuff after i had made payment. I had the radio silence after payment was made.

However, I pmed Dave and things sorted itself out. I dun know any of the two guys personally but I believe things happen to even the best of us and dwelling on it does not help anyone.

RC, i hope you won't let this matter embitter you. Sure Lonnie may not be responding quite the way you wanted but don't let that affect you more than it has to.

Peace guys.

nash
10-08-2009, 12:59 AM
I dont think PM'ing dave or the mods is really needed. their job is not to mediate transactions gone wrong, and we shouldnt expect them to deal with the problems for us. We are all adults and should take the appropriate precautions to avoid bad situations as much as possible whether you are buying or selling.

however if it is a matter of keeping the forum and community safe from fraudulent members, then that is a different story.

BadMoon
10-08-2009, 04:15 AM
I dont think PM'ing dave or the mods is really needed. their job is not to mediate transactions gone wrong, and we shouldnt expect them to deal with the problems for us. We are all adults and should take the appropriate precautions to avoid bad situations as much as possible whether you are buying or selling.

This will lead to the end of sales on this board. No need to contact mods. :lecture

RogueCylon
10-08-2009, 07:17 AM
Okay, I've cleaned up this thread of most of the idiocy and crap. If it dealt with anyone else I would just delete it outright because of all the idiots sticking their noses in trying to stir up ^^^^ when it's none of their business. But I know that I would be accused of favoritism if I did that, so I'll leave and even leave it open. But the next person that posts something that is trolling or a popcorn eating will be banned.

Dave, or any mod please lock this thread at my request.

My original intention was simply the title of the thread "How long is too long". With the combination of lack of apology, poor communication and some of the posts here, I think I allowed this to continue without any good for the forum in general. That has changed now.

I understand I will now get a refund sometime next week. I have also sold stock and purchased the bust from another source that came forward a week ago. So this matter is closed.

I'm going to take a hiatus from the forum for awhile.

Peace.

Shai
10-08-2009, 08:06 AM
I'm going to take a hiatus from the forum for awhile.

Peace.

Dont let this bad transaction affect you.Its a good place here.

Batman29
10-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Rogue:

I hope you get this before you take a hiatus, I am not sure if this has been mentioned before or not.

In this hobby/business of collecting, you will find some real gems of collectors, and some diamonds in the rough, and some that just need to be thrown back into the pile. Usually the ones that need to be thrown back are people who have issues in their lives or whatever.

IMO, and I really believe this to be true, most collectors have been taken at least once. I have been taken twice. After it happens, you just know what people to trust and which ones to not. And then the fun in collecting returns.

You will find some real honest, truthful, avid collectors in this forum. And some may even be ****, lol, but they are avid collectors who wish to further the hobby rather than hoard it.

I think you know by now that you made a mistake by withdrawing the PayPal claim the first time. You won't make that mistake again. And truthfully, it has never been a more secure time to buy collectables than now, as you get protection from sources such as PayPal, and yes, ebay. 10 years ago, you would have been SOL. Today, you are not. And to boot, you got the bust from someone else.

And Rogue, we need collectors such as yourself who are avid collectors, and ones that are financially responsible in the collecting hobby, it makes it much more enjoyable. Although this forum may not need you, I would say that us avid collectors who are looking for others to build a trusting and worthwhile collecting relationship would WANT you here, and in a big way. It simply makes the forum stronger to know there is one more honest and avid collector here to make it a better experience for all of us.

Take a break, but not to long. You will quickly find out the good ones in this forum, and there are many. Shai who just posted up above me, is in that category. I can name you many others. And Darklord Dave, what can you say about a person who has literally put heart and soul into making this place a reality for genuine love of collecting (ok, the ONLY thing I can knock on Dave is that we have to work a little harder at demonstrating how smart us crazy Canucks are across the border, lol especially when he is chatting it up with Shai). Remember, he also has to be the heavy and be as objective as possible when he has too: it's what keeps the forum check and balance.

Thanks for having the courage to post this thread and discuss it openly. My hope is that the newbies here learn from it, the vets relearn from it, and we further prevention of fraud.

Take care Rogue. Hope to see you soon out here.

Jen
10-08-2009, 09:43 AM
This will lead to the end of sales on this board. No need to contact mods. :lecture

If anyone has problems with a transaction, I would like them to know that they can contact me to help resolve the issue. There may not be a whole lot I can do, but I will try to help keep the flow of communication going and act as a mediator if I need be.

And RogueCylon, like others have said, I hope you stay with the board. It really is a great place.

:peace

Batman29
10-08-2009, 09:52 AM
This will lead to the end of sales on this board. No need to contact mods. :lecture

No, I don't think it will. There are only a few that get this negative attention. Most, like over 90%, are anywhere from good to great to deal with.

Batman29
10-08-2009, 09:53 AM
If anyone has problems with a transaction, I would like them to know that they can contact me to help resolve the issue. There may not be a whole lot I can do, but I will try to help keep the flow of communication going and act as a mediator if I need be.

And RogueCylon, like others have said, I hope you stay with the board. It really is a great place.

:peace

And you just proved one of my points of this board.

Thanks Jen!

BadMoon
10-08-2009, 10:22 AM
If anyone has problems with a transaction, I would like them to know that they can contact me to help resolve the issue. There may not be a whole lot I can do, but I will try to help keep the flow of communication going and act as a mediator if I need be.

And RogueCylon, like others have said, I hope you stay with the board. It really is a great place.

:peace

You are a brave woman!

Jen
10-08-2009, 10:33 AM
You are a brave woman!

:lol:lol:lol:lol

Truthfully, most transactions go pretty smoothly on this board....there have only been a few instances where either Shell or myself (or Dave) needed to get involved.

The vast majority of the people on this board are honest and usually transactions that didn't run smoothly were because of communication breakdown and not someone trying to rip off another member. We have a good community here. :)

Adoptedscot
10-08-2009, 10:36 AM
It is unfortunate that these things happen but I had no doubt it would be rectified.

I am currently helping a couple of people in similar positions, while it is for nowhere near this amount of money they still contacted me out of frustration and the lack of contact/communication from their sellers. I was only contacted as a last resort, the buyer thinking if the seller gets a pm from a mod they will respond. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't but I will gladly try to help if anyone gets in that situation.

There are hundreds (if not more) of transactions that go through successfully on the Forum so there are bound to be a few problems here and there, hopefully minimal which I think they are. All we can do is learn from each transaction and enjoy the Forum in the best way possible.

We are all here because we are collectors (well, most of us) and that is something we all have in common.

I am pleased to say I am friends with and have worked with both parties that have been mentioned in this thread and I had no doubt it would be resolved. I'm glad it is, hopefully we can all move on now.
x :peace

quadcent
10-08-2009, 10:58 AM
like i have always said, use paypal through your credit card, that way your not only protected up to 45 days with paypal (which can be less than helpful sometimes) but with your CC your covered up 90 days and they just yank the money back and let paypal and their client have to prove their side.

also with paypal even if you win your dispute, you'll only get money back if the account in question actually has funds in it. so with your CC you get your money back no matter what and paypal is out the money. (that's as long as your in the correct with your dispute of course)

Darklord Dave
10-08-2009, 12:31 PM
Locked at request of OP