It might be a scammer if...

Edited to be MUCH more polite - Thanks Nemo.

Howdy folks!

Forgive - my title is half jest, and half reeeeeally pissed off at myself. Let me explain.....

You may remember a bit ago, I criticized a seller who was
selling their whole collection in one shot: Not A Good Seller

I thought they were a scammer, and stated so openly and plainly on the board.

Well, it turns out that the seller offered the items to another outside
party after they were sold on Ebay, and then refused to let the winning
bidder come down to collect them. No money was lost, as it was to be
paid at the time of collection, but this still sucks and they were a scammer,
as they didn't follow through with their sale.

The seller was actually informed about the thread here, and
signed up on the forum to defend himself.
They told the board to "watch and see" how trustworthy they are.

I called this one correctly, but the "vocal minority" (one really) wanted
to ignore all the signs that this was a likely scam. Most members here have
seen the signs before, but I caved to the comments, and didn't pursue the issue further.

1. 0 feedback or new seller
2. Bad grammar in auction listing
3. no pictures of all the items for sale
4. seller outside the US or conflicting addresses
5. doesn't allow paypal payment
6. VERY High-End statues for sale
(Scammers usually don't sell Orc Pitmasters)

These alone don't always spell scammer, but more often than not, they do.
So, long story short, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it likely is a duck.
Be careful no matter what, and if it sounds fishy, or seems too good to be true, don't do it!

Very politely yours,

JS

Man, I must have slept through this one.

So is this an "I told you so?" And if so what purpose does it serve?

I called this one correctly, but the "vocal minority" (one really) wanted
to ignore all the signs that this was a likely scam.

Click to expand...

Hey JS! Cool and uncool at the same time you found out about the auction being alledgedy a scam! I'll believe you for the lack of evidence otherwise and for the more reasonable and truthful reason of your more definitely polished reputation over this rather newbish ebay seller. But I'm just curious as to the use of your terming vocal minority and wonder if it is directed at me specifically (considering I was pretty vocal though i wasn't the only person who made statements to give this guy the benefit of the doubt).

SO .... I hope you're not talking about me... 'cause reading that was frustratingly difficult to get over (just because I thought I was pretty vocal *sigh*) being offended.

However like I said also previously (in that other thread) that I was entirely open minded and would accept legitimate (note: irrefutable) proof of this seller was up to no good.

And given you say it turned out screwy, then on your word, I would like to say that it's really really disgusting that people can go behind peoples backs and make underhanded deals. I would only like to know who it was that this seller actually made a deal with finally, and why it was not the final ebay buyer. Really, it's terribly unfortunate for the poor buyer who would have had a really nice collection to enjoy in their home!

But then again, I wonder how you found out, JS?


Please pardon any undertones detected in this post because I dont usually like even perceiving any hint of negativity towards my person and when I do it has adverse affects to how I communicate (even as honest, friendly communication). Any undertones were not legitimately how I feel in reality.

In closing...



*sigh*
Well JS, I'm glad you posted this. But again like I said in the previous thread, I give people benifits of the doubt. Probably causes me to get ripped off more frequently than other people. Sigh...

OH and I forgot to mention- I wasn't the one to tip off the seller.

Whoever did eliminated our attempts at maintaining a cover on our concentrated detection of any illegitimacy on the part of the seller.

However Im not upset that someone did. I personally dont care because the auction is over and done with... but I do know that this seller will probably be blacklisted now. LOL Well that's that.

JS do you have access to the seller's real name?
The seller's no longer registered... having the name might be useful in the future.

edit-

Oh hey JS, once again I direct my message to you.
I just remembered... I was vocal in that thread previously but I also remember not being the one who dumped on you! I was simply vocal against peoples concentrated attacks on the auction *itself*. Yes it specifically comes to recollection now... and so my previous post is somewhat irrelivant now.

But I still would like to know why and how you got this info about the seller backig out on the original buyer, and if you can get the seller's real name.
If youre in contact with the buyer, ask him to do an ebay check (if it's legal in the UK).

Oh hey another point I should mention though to redeem myself as a not-super-gullible ebay person.

I got ripped off by Shannon Wendler before anyone else on this board had even heard of her. She was a VERY PLEASANT person up front but behind the scenes she was as silent as death, even after leaving numerous telephone messages (and subsequently being lied to by Shannon regarding my not leaving my phone number on the machine so she couldnt respond over the phone). But then when I called foul on her on the board after everyone was going hog wild with her, I was more or less shut out.

Unfortunately for a lot of the board, she covered her bases by eliminating my VERY VOCAL complaints against her by paying me really really fast.. and we all know that she got a good rep. And then what happened.... Yet I am not saying this to say "hey you're just as bad as me" but Im rather trying to express, in elaboration, the following idea:

Scammers come in ALL SORTS OF COMPLEXITIES with all sorts of scamming devices, both social and mechanical/electronic.

*sigh*... but as for me, I am an honest person and very friendly (at least I try to be). But I very ardently fight to make sure my trust is not misplaced. It's as informed as I can possibly make it, but I still do like to trust people as much as possible, and it has been misplaced in the past.

What I don't get is that isn't JSAuctionService like one of the biggest allies of Shannon and Angels in the Outfield in the past? In fact, from memory, he was one of the biggest referrals for her business and actively benefited from her himself as a redistributor.

So . . . I am interested to hear from him his perspectives on Shannon and his role in it. I know I dealt with her mainly because I trusted him. He has great feedback on ebay, is a well respected board member here, and came across like he was Shannon's personal friend. He had gone on other message boards like the Argonath, etc to advertise for her. I trusted Shannon in large part because of him. Then when everything blew up and it became painfully obvious that Shannon was one of the most unprofessional business people ever AT BEST and a simple lying scammer at worst . . . he just disappeared from that scene without taking any responsibility for advertising for her.

All I can say is that I just have a hard time taking what he says seriously and trusting any recommendations or referrals he may have in the future. I don't think he was necessarily at fault for Shannon's sins but I remember Peter apologizing for his role in getting anyone to jump on the AiTo bandwagon and he wasn't HALF the cheerleader JSAuctionservice was. Hell if I didn't know better I would've guessed they were in business together.

Does he still think she is trustworthy and merely "misunderstood." Does actively being investigated by the Texas Attorney General constitute "being a duck" or was she not given a fair shake and we should all be more patient?

Not trying to stir up the pot but I am merely curious how one of Shannon's BIGGEST supporters can get away with an "I told you so post" after that debacle.

Sorry if he has addressed this months ago but I didn't see it and being of the scammed, I've followed the AiTo saga on multiple message boards including this one for awhile.

I'm glad we got our money back but it sure as hell wasn't cause of JSAuctionservice's efforts. That dude was too busy getting paid on Shannon's commission system where she'd give discounts and stuff for every new customer referred to her company in those first few months.

I'd be REAL careful about going on any holy crusades against scammers real or imagined if I'd been practically in bed with the BIGGEST scammer to come across the Lord of the Rings community in the last few YEARS.

I tore CBswords apart in the Argonath for what I felt were inappropriate attacks on Shannon's reputation in those early months. Now I feel like an idiot cause CB was right all along.

So Nemo, let me tell you something. Of anyone out here JSAuctionservice is the LAST guy who should be telling ANYBODY "I told you so" when it comes to recognizing scammers. How he can lecture anyone about listening to him when he was the Mouth of Shannon just a year ago is honestly beyond me.

For what it's worth.

Dennis

I agree, more or less, to everything you said, dfchang.

thanks for the encouragement!!

On the rebound, I will say, for what it's worth, I don't fault JS for his sensitivity to auctions that could be scams.

Though to reiterate, I only really posted in this thread because I immediately caught negative vibes and felt they were directed at me, and that is something that sets me off. Very challenging for me to resist responding.. so I had to reply as slowly as possible to express myself as succinctly as I could. And after remembering how others were just attacking people themselves in the auction-time thread, and that I didn't do that (that I can recall) I was able to get over my own defensiveness.

Hopefully this revisited issue does not turn into a low intelligence flame war, but yields real, useful information. Wishful thinking.

re:

A ebay user with zero feedback does not necessarily mean its a scam... but even less likely so when they offer local pickup only to inspect first.

I think it was too tight to call it a scam but its good to point out any potential danger.
To call this guy a scammer is somewhat over the top since he never took money of the buyer and simply succumbed to an offer of a higher price from another seller.
Human nature or the seller trying to get out of a scammy deal ? who knows...

I hardly think he scammed, just what he did wasnt particulary right.
Ive seen worse, such as one auction that tried to decieve that the Danbury Mint Barad-Dur statue is a real companion piece to Orthanc. It never mentioned Danbury Mint, as if to say it was a Sideshow piece, among other things.
The pieces sold for way above retail when they were still readily available from the retailer.
But I donno...?

Howdy folks!

So - a short (well semi-short) reprisal:

Fubeca - Yes, and no. Please read on.......

Nemo - No I wasn't talking about you.
How could you even think that after our talks before, and our dealings in the past?
I consider you to be one of the nicest boardmembers actually. Don't know
why you'd jump and assume I was slamming you - I wasn't and wouldn't.
"I agree, more or less, to everything you said, dfchang."
Not appreciated, as Dennis is calling me a liar and a scammer, which I'm not.

Dennis - You don't know the full story on what you're talking about, and others
here do know the truth of the AITO saga. Only a couple trusted members though.
And yes, Shannon was a total pro at what she did, hence no warning bells.
I never benefitted one bit, regarding referrals, or credits, or payment.
She DID portray herself as a friend and confidant. Very good she was.
"he just disappeared from that scene without taking any responsibility for advertising for her."
All I'll say is things are done that aren't publicized to correct the situation,
so I'm sorry you think that I'm an accomplice. I was as duped as anybody.
AITO has cost me FAR more than anybody else here - I guarantee.
Moreso in fact. You can choose to believe me or not - your choice.
And I don't appreciate your highly personal attacks, when I made a general
statement pointing to NOBODY in particular. Stings because you are incorrect.

HighElven - That issue was fixed and publicly apologized for if you remember.

So, this thread intended for the following reasons:

1. I was and am pissed at MYSELF for letting people cow me into not being vocal
enough on what my gut instinct was on this seller - that they were a liar.
I caved to the pressure, and shut up. Very uncool situation.

2. Yes, a sort of to the ones who didn't think it was a scam.
This is a time that it SUCKS to be correct though.

3. A warning, once again, for people to be CAREFUL on auctions.
If there are warning signs, or something feels "off", pass on it.

4. No - there is NO reason for a flame war, or even personal attacks.
Good to discuss things openly, to learn more about warning signs to avoid,
and know what to look for as far as potential scams or bad deals.

Thats about it.

JS

Nemo Nint said:

*sigh*... but as for me, I am an honest person and very friendly (at least I try to be). But I very ardently fight to make sure my trust is not misplaced. It's as informed as I can possibly make it, but I still do like to trust people as much as possible, and it has been misplaced in the past.

Click to expand...

Same here Nemo, whether some here believe it or not.

I found out my information by talking with the buyer by the way.
I'll pursue it no further, as far as finding out information on the seller,
and whatnot, as I've been slammed for that unfairly in the past as well.

Thanks very much Nemo.

JS

One big reply coming up- want fries with that?

Be careful no matter what, and if it sounds fishy, or seems too good to be true, don't do it!

Click to expand...

That's true. No doubt about that! But I'd like to amplify it- If it seems fishy or too good to be true, it may yet not be a scam, but don't do it, for your own safety's sake.

Anyone remember that daddy balrog by the strange liquidator-type ebayer? It was on ebay maybe 8-12 months ago. I believe we all watched the auction for its duration because it was a really really cheap, like 500-800 when they cost 1000-1500.

It was like a 50/50 chance that it was a real balrog or just a quick money grab. And that I know of, no one on the board could truely discern its validity, so from what I think I remember we were just stamping warning labels all over it!

Zap the Safety bird says DON'T DO IT!

Don't know
why you'd jump and assume I was slamming you - I wasn't and wouldn't.
[...]
"I agree, more or less, to everything you said, dfchang."
Not appreciated, as Dennis is calling me a liar and a scammer, which I'm not.

Click to expand...

I'm actually glad you mentioned brought that up (my reply). After I replied.. I cooled down even more and sorta thought "hey, I don't actually AGREE with everything he said at all..."

But I want to clarify what prompted me to type that- As apparently with dfchang, I didn't see everything that went on behind the seens, nor openly with AitO. Remember JS, when you were offering me a box set EE of The Return of the King through Shannon? (at least I think that was the case).. I thought it was a good deal but I just wanted to stay away because I was burnt already. I'd much rather do business with someone who has been always pleasant to me and/or to others. (Quick names that come to mind: Oty, DSC, JSac, Jlcmsu, Beruthiel)

And so I had something of an averagely informed public eye point of view on the whole board-getting-scammed tragedy. So it's easier, unfortunately, for me to agree with others who share my level of information, even though they choose to take sides. I hate taking sides as following the leader when I'm less informed. Also being tired at 1 am and being stressed by studing for a major test plays on emotions.

And I do appologize for any sting my mentioning of "more or less" agreement caused you! It took my memory a while to recall as much as it has done, and I remember names that were strewn around. Frustrating to say the least, watching that happen. All that I keyed in on was your unedited post's mentioning of the "one vocal" member that people know. I remember that I was very frustrated at the attacks on the auction and apparent oversensitivity and I voiced my point of view pretty loudly (or so I thought lol) .. so yeah.. Well I'm glad you say it wasn't me

To call this guy a scammer is somewhat over the top since he never took money of the buyer and simply succumbed to an offer of a higher price from another seller.

Click to expand...

That's what I am personally inclined to think in terms of giving this seller a label. But it's neither here nor there, and going on about who is and isn't a scammer can sometimes become just a matter of semantics.

Anyone calling this guy a scammer is fine with me! It's just not the typical theiving type person I usually label as "scammer". But this is why I was really wanting his name so if people on this board who do business on ebay with another shady looking character from england we could have this name among others to be wary of. It's always possible this guy will show up again.

I was and am pissed at MYSELF for letting people cow me into not being vocal
enough on what my gut instinct was on this seller - that they were a liar.
I caved to the pressure, and shut up. Very uncool situation.
[...]
This is a time that it SUCKS to be correct though.
[...]
A warning, once again, for people to be CAREFUL on auctions.
If there are warning signs, or something feels "off", pass on it.

I'll pursue it no further, as far as finding out information on the seller,
and whatnot, as I've been slammed for that unfairly in the past as well.

Click to expand...

For what its worth, I think your vocalizations were pretty clear and appropriate, after you clarified the reasons for why you thought the guy was slippery.

Finally..

Are you sure you don't want to at least try to get the seller's name, JS? Or rather, are you on quick/good communication terms with daxearles? It probably wouldn't take more than a moment to get the name.

-Nemo

PS. JS I am sorry I was unable to squash the idea that you were directing comments at me. I do consider you a top notch board member, but sometimes when we're tired and our minds are buzzing with a hundred things we are more sensitive. heh! I've never once regretted (even though I still would like my statue back someday or a different one.. wishful thinking) our transaction and I've actually always looked at it as one of the top 5 SSW transactions I've ever made. Hey I got a guitar, and now I own two. I can play Howard Shore sheet music from TLOTR. I can play flamenco and CCR. Now I just need to learn to sing.

Who wants to buy my original balrog so I can afford singing lessons?

I'll sing for ya Nemo, I do a mean Proud Mary, and an even better Green River

I wouldnt mind hearing you sing Green River actually. I like Green River but I think it is definitely more of a challenge to sing than Proud Mary (and I have tried both and am pretty terrible hehehe).

Well if we wanna get crazy, I have been known to drink a few and tackle Travelin' Band..... I sing Karaoke alot on the weekends, keeps me outta trouble..

Traveling Band eh?

Sweeeet. I love that too. When I haven't heard/sang/played CCR in a while I can still remember Traveling band more than Green River.

seven thirty seven comin' outta the sky... won't you take me down to memphis on a midnight ride I wanna move... playin' in a traveling band.. hoo yeah! well I'm flyin' cross the land, tryin' to get a hand, playin' in a travelin' band!
Blah... hopefully have the lyrics right, they`re off the top of my head.

And yes, Shannon was a total pro at what she did

Click to expand...

Dumbest thing EVER said on the net!!!!

Pro at taking advantage of the situation.................

OK enough said, why cant this type of dirty laundry be taken care of in private?? This type of thread is not needed and serves nothing more then to "stir the pot"..............
Please next time PM it..........

Leave this junk to the other forums on the net that are full of it anyway.





Jesse

Yes, think happy thoughts.......

I agree with TWK, awwww look at them play....... Dave where are the puppies and icecream?