Would The Dark Knight have been any good if it had been made by Americans?

I've been thinking for a while that the reason The Dark Knight worked is because it had so little American input. It had a completely different feel to almost every other big summer movie - no reliance on 'hell, yeah!' crowd-pleasing moments, an almost mittel-European fairy tale darkness, and the removal of all those childish action-movie cliches that marred Batman Begins (ninja training, smart-ass comebacks, etc etc).

Most of this has to be down to Christopher Nolan and his brother, and the fact that David Goyer had less involvement with TDK, but you've got to hand it to the cast - of the seven principals only Gyllenhaal, Freeman and Eckhardt were American, and frankly, they made much less impression then Bale, Caine, Oldman and Ledger - maybe they were less inclined to take risks with their performances. And a lot of the production crew were British.

I personally think that handing the movie over to non-Americans was a huge factor in what made it such a great film. First, they brought a European sensibility to a character that is pretty gothic already; second, you can sense their reverence for the seventies cop movies and city movies that don't really have any equal in British cinema; and third, all the people involved were immensely talented already, but I reckon being put in charge of TDK must have been a hell of a fun challenge for them, and encouraged them all to raise their game in a playful way rather than just turning in good work. You can really tell that Oldman and Caine are enjoying themselves; and not being American must have created a kind of camaraderie among them from which I imagine they drew strength. I just don't get the same 'game-raising' vibe from Gyllenhall and Eckhardt, although their performances were perfectly adequate.

I guess also the film was more questioning and less obviously affirming, which is more of a British trait then American - but in this case it was what made it interesting. You felt like you made your own way to the end of the film, and made up your own mind about the questions it posed, instead of being marched towards an inevitable triumph.

What do other people think?

Yes...probably by Michael Mann.

Captain Britain said:

What do other people think?

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I think the movie was overrated, and Heath Ledgers death added and immeasurable amount of hype, regardless of who made the film.

I liked Iron Man more.

Having British input didn't necessarily make the movie better, it probably had about as much to do with Americans as it does with Europe. And besides, it was filmed in Chicago. I think someone is being a little bit too patriotic.

Also--Ledger was Australian, which is far from being European.

I didn't realize that TDK was either American, Australian, or European. I just thought it was a good movie regardless of who made it.

LChinoz said:

Yes...probably by Michael Mann.

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wow took the words right out of my mouth, for some reason an "american tdk" ringed Mann, but I do think it matters who makes a movie. if a japanese director made tdk, it definitely would not have been this dark i guarantee. i think it has to do with cultural values influencing a director's style. im pretty sure somewhere out there that there could of been a way to make tdk the same success with a lighter style of directing.

Kind of a big generalization. I don't think it has anything to do with it. The Keaton Batman was written, directed and starred Americans and was pretty dark too.

You seem to forget that TDK was an AMERICAN film, made by AMERICAN producers, an AMERICAN production company, and shot with AMERICAN money, based on an AMERICAN character, and finally, made a box office sensation by AMERICAN audiences.

Just because the hired director and co-writer is English, doesn't make it some artsy British film. Especially when he took most of his ideas and style from American films and comics: HEAT, and other gangster flicks; the previous Batman movies and comics; and even the James Bond movies (Okay so, the last one is British, but those movies are produced by Americans too.)

If a different director directed it, it probably won't turn out as good. But i don't think nationality has a major significance on whether a film will be good or not. If a Chinese can direct films like Brokeback Mountain, then you can't really tie up genre to nationality.

LChinoz said:

Yes...probably by Michael Mann.

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Yup. Especially since his movies were a huge influence. TDK is HEAT with superheroes.

FWIW, Chris Nolan's brother Jonathan (who co-wrote the film) was born in London but was actually raised and lived most of his life in Chicago. He's decidedly American and doesn't even have a British accent.

I have no doubt at all that the English filmakers of TDK had great English upbringing which may have enabled them (Nolan Bros) to make such an amazing film. No doubt. However saying that i'd have to agree with what most have already said, the film is entirely "based" on American characters in an American setting so being British wouldn't have had a factor in making an "American" movie great.

I can understand if the "setting" was of an English background financed by American producers but thats not the case. If the film was great (and it was) then giving some sort of "American" credit is valid.

Just my 2 cents.

It's the difference between Alien and Aliens.

The Dark Knight was a film version of a "perfect storm." Excellent script, good actors, great director, all working with the same vision and goal in mind. It wouldn't have been the same movie with anyone else directing it. This argument is similar to the "would Raiders of the Lost Ark been as good if Tom Selleck had been Indiana Jones" question. It probably would have been good, maybe even great, but it wouldn't have been the same.

the movie bored the shat out of me.ledger was brilllant though.

I think its more of who is directing the film and his vision. If it was in Michael Bay's hands it would have become another explosive action all the way film.

freestylex06x said:

wow took the words right out of my mouth, for some reason an "american tdk" ringed Mann, but I do think it matters who makes a movie. if a japanese director made tdk, it definitely would not have been this dark i guarantee. i think it has to do with cultural values influencing a director's style. im pretty sure somewhere out there that there could of been a way to make tdk the same success with a lighter style of directing.

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I agree with your comment about cultural values, but I can't agree about a lighter style of directing making TDK the same success -TDK was a perfect storm like somebody else mentioned, and a lighter style would have made it a different film completely.

My original post wasn't a generalisation, it was a question. And I wasn't being patriotic - Ledger wasn't British, and I thought he was a major part of what made the film great.

Captain Britain said:

of the seven principals only Gyllenhaal, Freeman and Eckhardt were American, and frankly, they made much less impression then Bale, Caine, Oldman and Ledger.

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Hey not to forget the Lau guy is a Singaporean.

I think that the overall American character of the movie was undeniable. Yes, some of the thesps were Brits, but the whole superhero genre is as American as Mom and Apple pie. Even the new Bond is a direct response to Bourne. I'm afraid indigenous Brit movies today tend to be either the cockney gangster rubbish that Ritchie produces, or depressing kitchen sink/ council (social) estate (project) that Ken Loach seems to like.
Brits are big in Hollywood, look at wor geordies Ridley and Tony Scott, Sam Mendes etc and the dozens of Brit actors, male and female who are huge over there and we can be proud of that. Without American money, however, there would hardly be a British film industry. I know what you are saying captain, but as someone with his ass planted on a fence in the mid-Atlantic I'd say you were in danger (probably inadvertently) of insulting our American friends by hinting at a degree of cultural superiority. Big Budget Movies are financed to achieve a certain return and therefore have to appeal to a certain mass demographic, usually the American teenage male, it is by ignoring such basic market philosophies that rendered the British film industry almost extinct.

The simple answer IMHO therefore is: No!