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IrishJedi
10-25-2008, 04:39 PM
Okay, I'll kick this one off...

I mentioned this in the other thread once (I think) but just in case... the opening credit sequence of the movie is set to "The Times They Are A Changing" by Bob Dylan and features lots of footage of WATCHMEN lore, both from the book and created for the film. One shot reveals The Comedian on the infamous grassy knoll as the true assassin of JFK, which was hinted at in a bit of dialogue in the book but never overtly confirmed, much less shown. :google

We'll also see Dollar Bill get his cape stuck in the revolving doors of the National Bank and be shot by the mob guys, as well as young Walter Kovacs watching lots of guys coming and going from Mommy's bedroom. And perhaps the coolest bit... Veidt outside of Studio 54 shaking hands with David Bowie.

MARCH 6th!!!!!

:rock

YoNoSe
10-25-2008, 05:03 PM
I am going into this with an open mind. I respect Alan Moore and understand why he feels the way he feels, but being first and foremost a film fan it's difficult NOT to be excited by what's been shown so far.
IJ - since you seem to be on top of this, and since this is a SPOILER thread, I'm just curious if you know how the film ending differs from the book. And also, has it been established if the Cold War remains as a thematic element, or has it been updated to reflect current events?

CelticPredator
10-25-2008, 06:08 PM
Its still set in the 80's....cold war is still there, but the squid may not be.

IrishJedi
10-25-2008, 06:10 PM
I am going into this with an open mind. I respect Alan Moore and understand why he feels the way he feels, but being first and foremost a film fan it's difficult NOT to be excited by what's been shown so far.
IJ - since you seem to be on top of this, and since this is a SPOILER thread, I'm just curious if you know how the film ending differs from the book. And also, has it been established if the Cold War remains as a thematic element, or has it been updated to reflect current events?

There reportedly has been more than one ending tested so far, but the one tested in Portland last week was changed from the book in that Veidt doesn't use a genetically mutated "alien" squid to destroy half of NYC, but some kind of Hydrogen bombs go off there (and elsewhere) that frames Dr. Manhattan as a menace to all mankind. Obviously, this ending has not been well-received by WATCHMEN purists. I don't know. On the surface, I don't like it either. But I'm willing to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt. And there is reportedly at least one other alternate ending, which may or may not be more like the book. But in any case, the theme of the end has remained intact: Veidt's the bad guy and gets away with it, Rorschach dies, etc.

And yes, the Cold War and Doomsday Clock theme are very much there. It's still set in 1985, Richard Nixon is running for his 5th Presidential term, Vietnam has become the 51st U.S. state, and the threat of WWIII nears when Dr. Manhattan leaves Earth for Mars and Russia invades Afghanistan. All of that stuff is firmly intact in the film.

The Chaver
10-25-2008, 07:33 PM
Where can I read the watchmen online?

Entropy
10-25-2008, 07:46 PM
Not really what you're looking for i know, but iTunes has the first 2 chapters, more forthcoming, of the motion animated comic read by the amazing Tom Stechshulte who has a great voice and has recorded the audiobooks of Cormac McCarthy among others.

And the nuclear ending has me a bit worried, not sure how that would bring the world/ US & USSR together and prevent WWIII, but everything else seems awesome so I'll trust Zack. Though, I can see why they'd want it to be more of a worldwide threat rather than just alien squid attacks NYC. Still the world blames/kills Dr. M for the nuked cities and then they just agree not to have a war because of that? seems lame :confused:

CelticPredator
10-25-2008, 10:28 PM
Where can I read the watchmen online?

At the book store for 20 bucks.


Yes I know, I hate when people do this to me, but for The Watchmen, you NEED to own it. You probably will want to go back and re-read after you read it for the first time. Its not the deepest peice of fiction, but its not like 300 or anything.

The Chaver
10-25-2008, 10:33 PM
At the book store for 20 bucks.


Yes I know, I hate when people do this to me, but for The Watchmen, you NEED to own it. You probably will want to go back and re-read after you read it for the first time. Its not the deepest peice of fiction, but its not like 300 or anything.

I'll pick it up tomorrow,thanks.

Entropy
10-25-2008, 10:33 PM
At the book store for 20 bucks.


Yes I know, I hate when people do this to me, but for The Watchmen, you NEED to own it. You probably will want to go back and re-read after you read it for the first time. Its not the deepest peice of fiction, but its not like 300 or anything.

or order it at tfaw.com for only $10. well worth it.

CelticPredator
10-25-2008, 10:43 PM
Or do that.

No trust me, it really is worth the dough.

IrishJedi
10-25-2008, 10:57 PM
I ordered a dozen copies of the TPB from Joe to give out as Christmas presents. :rock

Oh, and I hate to be "that guy", but it's just WATCHMEN. No "The". :monkey3

CelticPredator
10-25-2008, 10:59 PM
Doh........

IrishJedi
10-25-2008, 11:07 PM
By the way, the supposed release date for the UNDER THE HOOD/TALES OF THE BLACK FREIGHTER tie-in DVD release is now March 10th. I cannot wait for that, either. :rock

scubasteve
10-26-2008, 12:24 PM
By the way, the supposed release date for the UNDER THE HOOD/TALES OF THE BLACK FREIGHTER tie-in DVD release is now March 10th. I cannot wait for that, either. :rock

Will the animation style parallel that of the gn?

FQRizzo
10-28-2008, 06:56 AM
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/923/923006/watchmen-20081023102100839_640w.jpg

abstractharmony
10-29-2008, 03:32 PM
Had this signed by Dave Gibbons last week within hours of it being released. It was the first time he'd seen the new poster and he was very impressed.

Entropy
10-29-2008, 06:44 PM
Had this signed by Dave Gibbons last week within hours of it being released. It was the first time he'd seen the new poster and he was very impressed.

Wow. lucky you. I'd love to have an autographed one of those.

The Mike
10-29-2008, 11:15 PM
Comic Book Resources has a rumor which should put a smile on the face of all you Watchmen-reading, giant squid-loving nerds who were dismayed at the possibility that Ozymandius' insane plan might instead be changed to a Dr. Manhattan-inspired set of atomic reactors.

I'm told that this screening was intentionally leaked to the fan press - with the exact time and place posted online with details of how to evade the security. The intent is to gauge fan reaction to a squidless ending for Watchmen and see what they can get away with, believing it to be more suitable for a more mainstream audience. The FX for the squid has been completed however.This certainly jibes with all the rumors of the squid footage being shot, and the mentions of squid by the Watchmen actors. And I can certainly see the Warner Bros. think the giant alien squid wouldn't fly with audiences, and Zack Snyder convincing them to try it out in a test screening first. There's no way to know if this rumor is true, of course, but even if it is, there's no indication whether Warner will decide to keep the squid or use the reactor version. Sure, the fans are in a tizzy online, but if Warner's testing has enough non-fans who like th reactor version, I'm sure that's what we're going to get. However, I'm sure the alternate squid ending will end up on the DVD, at least. (Via io9)

IrishJedi
10-29-2008, 11:33 PM
Wow. lucky you. I'd love to have an autographed one of those.

Keep your eyes and ears peeled. Gibbons will be touring the U.S. between now and March doing book signings and such.

Memnoch
10-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Comic Book Resources has a rumor which should put a smile on the face of all you Watchmen-reading, giant squid-loving nerds who were dismayed at the possibility that Ozymandius' insane plan might instead be changed to a Dr. Manhattan-inspired set of atomic reactors.

I'm told that this screening was intentionally leaked to the fan press - with the exact time and place posted online with details of how to evade the security. The intent is to gauge fan reaction to a squidless ending for Watchmen and see what they can get away with, believing it to be more suitable for a more mainstream audience. The FX for the squid has been completed however.This certainly jibes with all the rumors of the squid footage being shot, and the mentions of squid by the Watchmen actors. And I can certainly see the Warner Bros. think the giant alien squid wouldn't fly with audiences, and Zack Snyder convincing them to try it out in a test screening first. There's no way to know if this rumor is true, of course, but even if it is, there's no indication whether Warner will decide to keep the squid or use the reactor version. Sure, the fans are in a tizzy online, but if Warner's testing has enough non-fans who like th reactor version, I'm sure that's what we're going to get. However, I'm sure the alternate squid ending will end up on the DVD, at least. (Via io9)

Oh please let there be squid! Oh please, oh please, oh please!

Batty
11-03-2008, 08:45 PM
Check out the new updated site. Not a lot of new content yet, but it looks cool.

http://watchmenmovie.warnerbros.com/

IrishJedi
11-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Check out the new updated site. Not a lot of new content yet, but it looks cool.

http://watchmenmovie.warnerbros.com/

You tricked me! :thwak

:lol

Actually, that's been the look-n-feel of the official site since just after SDCC (you may be mistaking it for The Production Blog, which is separate and still active at: http://rss.warnerbros.com/watchmen/). But they DID add the new character pages, of which only The Comedian is up so far. :rock

Batty
11-03-2008, 09:31 PM
Yes, I meant the new character page. Relax. :rolleyes:

IrishJedi
11-03-2008, 10:48 PM
:huh I am relaxed. Well, kinda.

I still can't find any poster retailers who have the new Teaser 1-Sheet for sale yet. :banghead

IrishJedi
11-06-2008, 10:03 PM
Looky at what the cover story of the new Electronic Gaming Monthly is:

http://media.1up.com/media?id=3643804&type=lg.jpg

http://media.1up.com/media?id=3643805&type=lg.jpg

CelticPredator
11-06-2008, 10:06 PM
It should be intresting.


But im sure it will be ass. :(

IrishJedi
11-06-2008, 10:20 PM
It should be intresting.


But im sure it will be ass. :(

While it makes sense to be skeptical of tie-in games (especially movie-based), keep in mind two things:

1) In order to devote as much time as possible into the game (i.e., not rushing it like pretty much all other movie-based games) WB Interactive and the dev team started early on, when the film was in pre-production and are still working on it. Also, the decision to make it downloadable was not only to make it more affordable for gamers, but to give the development team even more time to complete it.

2) Zack Snyder, Dave Gibbons, and Len Wein were all personally involved in the game every step of the way. That's huge.

Also, EGM was apparently genuinely impressed with what they saw. So, we'll see...

IrishJedi
11-06-2008, 11:44 PM
Kick ass new Video Journal released today called, well, "Girls Kiss Ass". It focuses on the lovely ladies. :drool

<a href="http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=45930866">Watchmen Exclusive: Girls Kick Ass</a><br/><object width="425px" height="360px" ><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="movie" value="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=45930866,t=1,mt=video"/><embed src="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=45930866,t=1,mt=video" width="425" height="360" allowFullScreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object>

Lots of quick shots of great stuff, too. Minutemen stuff, the Crimebusters meeting (including the burning map!), and more. :rock

Kabukiman
11-07-2008, 06:23 AM
Wait... Watchmen prequel video game?!? Where the hell have I been?

/me prays it doesn't suck

IrishJedi
11-07-2008, 02:25 PM
Bad ass new movie poster:

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmenteaserposter2.jpg

:rock

IrishJedi
11-08-2008, 01:41 AM
Dark Horizons sat down with Snyder this week. LOTS of info here (also confirmed: no squid... I'm fine with that, as long as the moral of the ending is intact and it sounds like it is):


Special Feature: Zack Snyder On "Watchmen"

By Garth FranklinFriday, November 7th 2008 8:27am

Zack Snyder is a director who doesn't fit the stereotype. A gentle voice, buff figure and laid back attitude hardly seems suited to the man behind the zombie-fueled fun of "Dawn of the Dead" or the movie that took leather codpieces and rippled abs out of the S&M club scene and into many an alpha male's heart - "300".

Snyder though, like all geeks at heart, is driven by pure passion and a belief in the material. Here in Sydney, Australia for two weeks to get ready for the upcoming CG animated fantasy film "Guardians of Ga'Hoole", Snyder spent a few hours yesterday afternoon both talking about and presenting footage from the project that's been dominating not only his but many a fanboy's dreams for the past few months - "Watchmen". Already presented in Los Angeles and New York earlier in the month, the half-hour preview consisted of three separate segments with material ranging from the extraordinary to the interesting - there's no doubt the ambitious film promises a very loyal adaptation of Alan Moore's definitive graphic novel.

For those unfamiliar with the property, the comic is set in an alternate 1985 America in which costumed superheroes (only one of which has real superpowers) are part of the fabric of everyday society and the US-Soviet Cold War is closer than ever to an all-out nuclear armageddon. When one of his former colleagues named The Comedian is murdered, the washed-up vigilante Rorschach sets out to uncover a plot to kill and discredit all past and present superheroes. As he reconnects with his former crime-fighting legion, he glimpses a wide-ranging and disturbing conspiracy with links to their shared past and catastrophic consequences for the future.

In regards to the footage, the highlight is the opening credits montage which sets up an alternate version of history from the 1940's through the 1970's in which superheroes were around - all set to Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are A-Changing". Scenes included Dr. Manhattan shaking JFK's hand, the Comedian being JFK's assassin on the grassy knoll, Ozymandias outside Studio 54 with David Bowie & the Village People, Kruschev and Castro watching American fighter planes soaring over Moscow, Andy Warhol & Truman Capote looking at a Nite-Owl themed painting, and a lesbian version of that famous sailor-nurse post-WW2 kiss photo.

Another impressive sequence explored the origin of Dr. Manhattan (Billy Crudup), a scientist in 1959 who becomes a blue God-like creature who helps America win Vietnam. Some bits weren't so effective - the opening Comedian attack scene and more notably a later jailbreak scene were shown and were fun action moments but seem a little frivolous. Similarly some of the line deliveries felt a little stiff. Nevertheless this was rough footage and further post-production tweaking can make all the difference in the world when it comes to these very minor haggles.

Sitting alone in a bar with Snyder for twenty minutes after the presentation, the director seemed a little tired but in good spirits when we chatted, especially due to the fact that the movie is near completion. "The film's pretty much done in my book. There's still some visual effects shots which I'm reviewing... there's probably close to 2000 effects shots in the film" he says. There's also mixing, telecining and coloring to go - plus he's finishing up the 'Black Freighter' version for the Director's Cut DVD release which will incorporate that 'comic within the comic' sub-story from the graphic novel.

While there's been glimpses of footage in San Diego, at these presentations, and during the Scream Awards earlier this month - there's only been one official trailer so far. The second however is on its way, attached to "Quantum of Solace" in theaters next Friday. Snyder says "I just saw the final version of it this morning... it's a little bit more story, a teeny bit more like a full trailer. This is much more like 'someone's picking off costume heroes'. You'll get a sense of the characters plight you know, 'we were supposed to make the world a better place... what happened to the American Dream'." Some elements have had to be changed for the trailer, most notably Dr. Manhattan's exposed genitals have had to be 'defocused' to be granted approval by the MPAA. He also confirms a third trailer will hit early in the new year.

He's been having great fun choosing the period-specific soundtrack which will incorporate a lot of the songs listed in the graphic novel as well as some others. "That part is super fun, I love the exercise of having to go through the book and find songs from pop culture that fits scenes" he says. One song that gets a brief inclusion is 1984's '99 Luftballons' by Nena which he had to justify to one clueless onlooker - "someone said to me like 'I don't get why you put that song in the movie', and I said 'you know that song's about these red balloons getting away and causing nuclear war' and they're like 'Oh...huh'."

Other songs in the film includes more Dylan numbers like Desolation Row and All Along the Watchtower, Simon & Garfunkel's Sounds of Silence, Nat King Cole's Unforgettable, and at least one number by Nina Simone. He thinks after the movie opens the soundtrack inclusions and exclusions will be among the more debated topics. Even he had to pass on some songs he hoped to add - "It's not so much that I didn't want to put them in, it's just that they weren't practical".

Much like the Dr. Manhattan origin scene is an extended montage of the character's back story with a voice over, the Comedian's funeral is the same and take place about an hour into the film. "We go with everyone - you go with Dan to the riots, Adrian to crimebusters headquarters, the Comedian in Vietnam with Manhattan, you know" he says. Snyder's son, who played the young Leonidas in the early scenes of "300", also cameos as a young Rorschach.

Of course much of the online fan buzz lately has been about a test screening that took place a few weeks ago in Portland. Having gone through two test screenings for "300", the process is one Snyder admits he still finds "nerve-wracking", especially considering his track record - "We had the best test scores in the history of Warner Bros. with '300' and I kept telling them look the movie is not like 300, don't think that it is - it's not going to be the same experience. Some people are going to go 'what the ^^^^^k is this' and I go that's ok. That's the thing that you fight... The one thing that was cool was that anyone who had read the graphic novel who was at the screening rated the film 'excellent', for me I'm like 'I'm done'."

What's the final runtime? "I'm hoping 2 hours 42 minutes, with credits." That theatrical version however is just one of three versions of the film planned for the eventual DVD & Blu-ray release. There's also a three hour director's cut of the film with "the scenes all fleshed out", and the 'Black Freighter' version which will combine that Director's Cut with the 'Black Freighter' short film that will clock in at three-and-a-half hours. How the Black Freighter version will be incorporated and packaged is still undecided - "For me 'Black Freighter' needs its own box, it's packaged with like cool props from the movie and supplemental material. It's like this big thing you put on your shelf and go 'that's ^^^^^king Black Freighter' you know."

The two action scenes shown in the footage he says are among the very few action sequences in the film. The Comedian fight, originally just three panels in the comic, was extended in the film for character reasons - "I wanted to show what he's capable of...he doesn't really even touch his attacker once, but you see that if he was against a normal guy he could beat the crap out of him". His favorite scene is the intercutting of Dr. Manhattan's interview and Nite-Owl's brutal alley fight which he's made very intense and graphic - "the point is to show consequence - the first punch the guy gets a compound fracture of the arm, blood sprays and you go 'woooh this is not a comic book movie'."

*** SPOILERS FOR GRAPHIC NOVEL/MOVIE AHEAD ***

A few online fanboys have been disappointed by reports from the test screening of the changed ending. Specifically a key moment in the graphic novel revolves around the disastrous repercussions of a 'giant alien squid' being teleported into New York City, an event that is changed in the movie (there's still a disaster but no squid). Snyder says "The fans, god love 'em, they're all up in arms about the squid. What they should be up in arms about are things like shooting the pregnant woman, 'God is real and he's American', whether THAT's in the movie. That's my point of view, maybe I'm crazy." He does admit that the ending scenes with the main characters remain, as does the 'moral imperative' of the comic's ending.

What about talk he did some 'squid' stuff in pre-production? "Well... I don't want to say yes or no (laughs). The squid was not in the movie when I got the script, the squid was never in any draft that I saw. My point is only that there was this elegant solution to the squid problem that I kind of embraced. I'm a fan of the thing as much as anyone, I was saying what are we going to do about this before I even read the script." Was that solution multiple atomic explosions as some have said? "I won't say exactly but... Dr. Manhattan has a certain energy signature, it's clearly his thing...so you know." He also shot down reports of multiple endings - they only filmed the one.

*** SPOILERS END ***

After this presentation, Snyder and co. are going on tour with the footage - Seoul, Tokyo, Paris and London. Those Asian markets he admits he's not too sure how the film will perform - "I don't know how this footage is going to go over in Japan or Korea, there's a lot of fanboys there and they'll get it but I just don't know how the movie will play...in Japan they didn't like 'Dark Knight' so I don't know what to give 'em." From the looks of what's he done however, he's going to give not just the fans but hopefully those audiences ready for deeper and more challenging fare in their comic book movies something they won't forget soon.

plasmid303
11-08-2008, 02:00 AM
That poster is certainly BADASS. If I get only one Watchmen poster, it'd be that one. I just wish they'd release a poster with my favorite Rorschach quote: "And all the whores and politicians will look up and shout 'save us!' And I'll look down and whisper...'no.'" They probably changed it for the movie, but I don't mind.

No squid in the film? No bother, to be honest. The squid didn't do much for me. What the squid represents, and the devastation it caused can be replicated in an entirely different form and still have the same effect.

I was struck by what Snyder said about The Dark Knight. Japan didn't like it? Admittedly I don't pore over box office results, but that was surprising.

Entropy
11-08-2008, 02:10 AM
Dark Horizons sat down with Snyder this week. LOTS of info here (also confirmed: no squid... I'm fine with that, as long as the moral of the ending is intact and it sounds like it is):

damn. I had hoped for alternate endings being filmed. I have doubts that they came up with an equally interesting ending than the squid. :banghead

Memnoch
11-08-2008, 10:24 AM
This had better be a tight ending without the squid because the whole POINT of the squid was to trick people into thinking there are bigger things out there to be worried about than their petty problems AND it was to avert any form of nuclear or atomic warfare. Plus it doesn't help that Doctor Manhattan is my favorite character and it seems he's to be thrown under the bus.

CelticPredator
11-08-2008, 05:52 PM
He was thrown under a bus in the novel...everyone hated him...so this wont help.

But yes, I see your point. I would pefer the squid...but we'll see how this plays out.

DinoLast
11-08-2008, 06:10 PM
Maybe the people will be convinced of an Alien invasion some other way.

I have a feeling that by changing the squid, they are worried if Mr average movie goer and not the fans of the comic, will enjoy the movie

CelticPredator
11-08-2008, 06:21 PM
Exacly...............

LOTRFan
11-08-2008, 06:55 PM
The squid is certainly not as safe an ending, esp not for Hollywood's standards.

I am sure that Manhattan will have a MAJOR role in how this pans out -- a la HE nukes NY.

:horror

Kabukiman
11-08-2008, 07:02 PM
Maybe I'm just really out of touch with joe-moviegoer, but I don't understand why they can't use the giant squid...

Are they afraid the CG will look too cheesy or something?

LOTRFan
11-08-2008, 07:08 PM
Maybe I'm just really out of touch with joe-moviegoer, but I don't understand why they can't use the giant squid...

Are they afraid the CG will look too cheesy or something?

Perhaps just too over the top?
:confused:

CelticPredator
11-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Maybe I'm just really out of touch with joe-moviegoer, but I don't understand why they can't use the giant squid...

Are they afraid the CG will look too cheesy or something?

You are out of touch. No one will get the idea of the squid...heck I didnt even get it until I re-read it.

People will be like "WTF?" and thats the point...but while thats the point, most people will think its stupid, and pass it off as crap.

IrishJedi
11-09-2008, 12:45 AM
So is anyone else going to see QUANTUM OF SOLACE this Friday just to see the new WATCHMEN trailer? :banana

CelticPredator
11-09-2008, 12:56 AM
Bond first. Watchmen second.

plasmid303
11-09-2008, 02:04 AM
So is anyone else going to see QUANTUM OF SOLACE this Friday just to see the new WATCHMEN trailer? :banana

I don't go to ball games for the hot dogs and nuts. As much as I'd like to join you in your excitement for Watchmen, No, I'm going to see Quantum of Solace for Quantum of Solace.

IrishJedi
11-09-2008, 02:12 AM
Oh, I liked CASINO ROYALE a lot and I'm looking for to QOS just fine. But I know the trailer will overshadow it for me. Hell, the first one overshadowed TDK the first time I saw it. Truth.

Anyway, this won't be like the time in Nov '98 when I went to see the first PHANTOM MENACE trailer in front of WATERBOY and then left the theater once the actual movie started (which of course I paid to see). :lol

DinoLast
11-10-2008, 06:53 AM
Zack Snyder asked about the ending of Watchmen

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8I0LfvSJchk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8I0LfvSJchk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 12:18 AM
:google

Quite possibly the coolest ^^^^ing movie poster EVER:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/10/watchmen_comedian.jpg

:rock :rock :rock :rock

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 12:22 AM
5 more new posters were just unveiled. ALL are awesome (with The Comedian one kicking all kinds of righteous ass... and I'm liking SS's booty shot :naughty):

http://splashpage.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/111008_watchmenexclfull.jpg

http://www.accesshollywood.com/content/images/78/0x600/78896_watchmen-poster-nite-owl.jpg

http://blogs.usatoday.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/10/llwatchmenxlarge.jpg

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/images/2008/11/10/watbn_ozymandias_3.jpg

http://popwatch.ew.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/10/watchmen_l.jpg


I must own all of these as soon as possible. :lecture :rock

plasmid303
11-11-2008, 01:41 AM
They're all cool, but there's something about the Comedian poster that's bugging me; If that flamethrower is supposed to be spewing a jet of flame like that, wouldn't his thumb have to be on the trigger thingy? (I have no functioning knowledge of flamethrowers)

These are all photoshopped, but it's obviously apparent the work they did on Silk Spectre's chest. Malin Ackerman isn't that...big (watch Harold and Kumar for proof).

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 01:50 AM
They're all cool, but there's something about the Comedian poster that's bugging me; If that flamethrower is supposed to be spewing a jet of flame like that, wouldn't his thumb have to be on the trigger thingy? (I have no functioning knowledge of flamethrowers)
They got it right. Once it's lit it will do that for a while and when the trigger is pulled is when it truly fires and the flames project all over the place. Trust me, he couldn't light his cigar with the trigger pulled and the thrower fully activated. He'd melt his face off. :lol Blow torches are very similar.


These are all photoshopped, but it's obviously apparent the work they did on Silk Spectre's chest. Malin Ackerman isn't that...big (watch Harold and Kumar for proof).
They didn't do Photoshop work on her chest. It's that big in the film. Probably a wonder bra or something else that takes the boobs and pushes them together and up. Watch the slo-mo shot of her walking (and bouncing) down the stairs in the trailer. They're quite, eh, full looking. :naughty

plasmid303
11-11-2008, 02:16 AM
Ahhh ok, that makes sense. I can't wait to see Comedian and all those other posters lined up and framed at my local movieplex. It'd be cool to see what the cardboard display will look like too.


They didn't do Photoshop work on her chest. It's that big in the film. Probably a wonder bra or something else that takes the boobs and pushes them together and up. Watch the slo-mo shot of her walking (and bouncing) down the stairs in the trailer. They're quite, eh, full looking. :naughty

Sure, like I need any more encouragement to watch the trailers again. *watches it again* Ok I see 'em now :D

The Mike
11-11-2008, 02:25 AM
That Silk Spectre poster is phenomenal....Anyone find these in HQ so I can make a Wallpaper?

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 02:31 AM
I can't wait to see Comedian and all those other posters lined up and framed at my local movieplex. It'd be cool to see what the cardboard display will look like too.
You and me both! :rock


Sure, like I need any more encouragement to watch the trailers again. *watches it again* Ok I see 'em now :D
:monkey5


That Silk Spectre poster is phenomenal....Anyone find these in HQ so I can make a Wallpaper?
Not yet. But as soon as I find them in hi-res, I'll be sure to share here if no one else finds them first.

Also, we all need to keep our eyes and ears peeled for when someone has these for sale 1-sheet size (along with the previous two posters released last week). I'll be getting all of them. :rock

CelticPredator
11-11-2008, 06:50 AM
Oz...ew.

Take the mask off please.

Other posters = ROCK!

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 01:13 PM
There is a reason why Ozy looks like that in the movie. They purposely designed him to remind people of Schumacher Batman and other 90's superhero films. Remember, this will be a deconstruction of superhero MOVIES.

Darkseed
11-11-2008, 01:30 PM
There is a reason why Ozy looks like that in the movie. They purposely designed him to remind people of Schumacher Batman and other 90's superhero films. Remember, this will be a deconstruction of superhero MOVIES.

I'll admit I know nothing about Watchmen. No interest in reading any graphic novels and the movie clips haven't inspired me to learn more.

Along comes IrishJedi saying this will deconstruct superhero movies. I'll admit my interest is finally peaked. I might need to research a bit further.

Thanks IrishJedi :gun

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 01:59 PM
I'll admit I know nothing about Watchmen. No interest in reading any graphic novels and the movie clips haven't inspired me to learn more.

Along comes IrishJedi saying this will deconstruct superhero movies. I'll admit my interest is finally peaked. I might need to research a bit further.

Thanks IrishJedi :gun

You're welcome. :duff And, of course, the graphic novel itself is a masterpiece and perfect deconstruction of the superhero comic medium. That's why it makes perfect sense for the movie to be a deconstruction of THAT medium. Indeed, even "The Dark Knight" can't be taken as seriously after this comes out.

Anyway, good news! Hi-res images of all of the posters now available:


http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-rorschach-banner-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-rorschach-banner-big.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-drmanhattan-banner-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-drmanhattan-banner-big.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-comdeian-banner-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-comedian-banner-big.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-niteowl-banner-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-niteowl-banner-big.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-ozymandias-banner-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-ozymandias-banner-big.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-ss-banner-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmen-ss-banner-big.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmenteaserposter2-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmenteaserposter2-super.jpg)

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmenteaserposter-tmb.jpg (http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/posters/watchmenteaserposter-super.jpg)

Entropy
11-11-2008, 03:24 PM
You're killing me with these posters I can't buy!

Any idea on someone selling these?

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 03:42 PM
You're killing me with these posters I can't buy!

Any idea on someone selling these?

Someone undoubtedly will. And I'll let you know, 'cause I'm getting ALL of them.

Entropy
11-11-2008, 03:50 PM
Someone undoubtedly will. And I'll let you know, 'cause I'm getting ALL of them.

Hopefully you find a good deal and post it. I want 'em all too! :D


Still happy about the EX Watching Watchmen headsup - I would've just gotten the reg. :chew

King Darkness
11-11-2008, 03:51 PM
They all look great!! I love the one with ROrschach standing the street. :rock

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Hopefully you find a good deal and post it. I want 'em all too! :D


Still happy about the EX Watching Watchmen headsup - I would've just gotten the reg. :chew

:rock

:duff

Kuzeh
11-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Wow, those posters look awesome!
:rock
I gotta say I'm not familiar at all with the graphic novel, but will be catching this movie for sure!!

CelticPredator
11-11-2008, 05:26 PM
There is a reason why Ozy looks like that in the movie. They purposely designed him to remind people of Schumacher Batman and other 90's superhero films. Remember, this will be a deconstruction of superhero MOVIES.

I know. And it works...but from any perspective, he looks dumb. Thats pretty much my only issue...well, the ending is somewhere, but its not an issue until March 7th...after I've seen the movie.

CelticPredator
11-11-2008, 05:27 PM
Look at Dan! Man thats perfect casting right there!

Entropy
11-11-2008, 05:29 PM
I know. And it works...but from any perspective, he looks dumb. Thats pretty much my only issue...well, the ending is somewhere, but its not an issue until March 7th...after I've seen the movie.

comic book Ozy looked dumb. Smartest man in the world and he dresses in gold and purple tunic? :huh

oh well, it was the 80's after all. :lol

Bannister
11-11-2008, 05:31 PM
That's why it makes perfect sense for the movie to be a deconstruction of THAT medium. Indeed, even "The Dark Knight" can't be taken as seriously after this comes out.


Weren't you the one going on and on about hyperbole with regards to The Dark Knight?

Entropy
11-11-2008, 05:37 PM
They all look great!! I love the one with ROrschach standing the street. :rock

Hell Yeah! Upon closer inspection, it looks like the "Was offered Swedish love and French love...but not American love. American love; like Coke in green glass bottles...they don't make it anymore." scene. Rorschach is surrounded by whores! :rock :lol

CelticPredator
11-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Kovacs is an idiot...I bought green glass bottled coke a few days ago...:lol

Bannister
11-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Kovacs is an idiot...I bought green glass bottled coke a few days ago...:lol

Did you also get American love?

CelticPredator
11-11-2008, 06:12 PM
No. No american love.

Some Ozzy love yes....

Bannister
11-11-2008, 06:13 PM
No. No american love.


:monkey2:monkey2:monkey2

Entropy
11-11-2008, 06:26 PM
The trick is to get American love from a green glass bottle. :naughty

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 06:44 PM
Weren't you the one going on and on about hyperbole with regards to The Dark Knight?

Yes. But this wasn't hyperbole at all on my part. I meant every word in a literal sense.

WATCHMEN's take on the medium makes it very hard to take characters like Bruce Wayne/Batman too seriously because you know that, in the real world, his clearly-defined duality is simply not possible. He'd be a totally dysfunctional sociopath. And when you then identify that fantasy the notion of a "real world Batman movie" starts to become nonsensical. Same thing with Superman. Totally one-dimensional and elementary after the Dr. Manhattan character study. That's what a deconstruction is all about. You re-think the classic characters and put them in a more clearly-defined context.

Bannister
11-11-2008, 06:48 PM
Yes. But this wasn't hyperbole at all on my part. I meant every word in a literal sense.

WATCHMEN's take on the medium makes it very hard to take characters like Bruce Wayne/Batman too seriously because you know that, in the real world, his clearly-defined duality is simply not possible. He'd be a totally dysfunctional sociopath. And when you then identify that fantasy the notion of a "real world Batman movie" starts to become nonsensical. Same thing with Superman. Totally one-dimensional and elementary after the Dr. Manhattan character study. That's what a deconstruction is all about. You re-think the classic characters and put them in a more clearly-defined context.

But the movie hasn't come out yet, so you are making assumptions. You don't know if this movie will actually do that. You can say it about the book, not the movie.

Batty
11-11-2008, 06:59 PM
But the movie hasn't come out yet, so you are making assumptions. You don't know if this movie will actually do that. You can say it about the book, not the movie.

Stop being recalcitrant. :mad:

King Darkness
11-11-2008, 07:01 PM
Stop being recalcitrant. :mad:

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Bannister
11-11-2008, 07:07 PM
Stop being recalcitrant. :mad:

http://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/11/45/01/12/pfgree13.jpg

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 07:59 PM
But the movie hasn't come out yet, so you are making assumptions. You don't know if this movie will actually do that. You can say it about the book, not the movie.

Well, since the film is an adaptation of the book and the director himself has said it's designed as a deconstruction of modern superhero movies I think it's a rather safe assumption. Don't you agree, my Recalcitrant Pretentious-Elixir Drinking friend? :o

:duff

By the way, :mwaha at the pic above.

Bannister
11-11-2008, 08:05 PM
Well, since the film is an adaptation of the book and the director himself has said it's designed as a deconstruction of modern superhero movies I think it's a rather safe assumption. Don't you agree, my Recalcitrant Pretentious-Elixir Drinking friend? :o

:duff

By the way, :mwaha at the pic above.

I just like giving you ^^^^.:lol:lol:lol

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 08:17 PM
I just like giving you ^^^^.:lol:lol:lol

:horror No 'effin way!!!!

:p

:duff

CelticPredator
11-11-2008, 09:46 PM
The trick is to get American love from a green glass bottle. :naughty

Right! No wonder Kovacs is so lonley. He has such a picky taste.

IrishJedi
11-11-2008, 11:58 PM
The new issue of Toyfare is out this week, and it loves me!

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/wizarduniverse_2028_1985823621


ToyFare #137 The Watchmen Cover

It's one of the most anticipated comic adaptations of all time...and it's inspiring one of the most anticipated toy lines of all time!

We'll be talking to some of the talents behind Zack Snyder's new film, based (of course!) on the beloved Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons tome, Watchmen. We'll also chat up the team at DC Direct that's finally bringing the characters to shiny plastic and polystone toy- life! DC Direct's Watchmen figures to take aim on our cover this month!

CelticPredator
11-12-2008, 06:50 AM
I really wish DC didnt put Ror in the "walking pose". Meh.

IrishJedi
11-12-2008, 08:48 AM
It wouldn't be a problem if their 7" figures were more articulated. But, oh well. Those and the busts have really great sculpts and detail. I'm in for all of 'em (and the props). It's the 1/6 figures that scare me. :lol

scubasteve
11-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Isn't the new Absolute Edition out today or no?

IrishJedi
11-12-2008, 11:25 AM
Not sure if it's this week or not. The new Hardcover printing of the TPB (with the same color-correction from the Absolute) is out today, though.

scubasteve
11-12-2008, 11:58 AM
Not sure if it's this week or not. The new Hardcover printing of the TPB (with the same color-correction from the Absolute) is out today, though.

Picked that up today. I like that they shrink wrap them to protect the sleeve :)

scubasteve
11-12-2008, 12:09 PM
DC shows November 5, 2008 for the Absolute.

http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/graphic_novels/?gn=4040

I'd really like to get another copy of it, but I can't find it locally (yet)

The Mike
11-12-2008, 01:50 PM
I was printed the High Res out at home yesterday for my classroom and my little cousin walked up (hes about 11) and said "Look, that's a nipple!" I looked down at Silk Spectre's poster and starting laughing. Then he went to my aunt and said he wants to see this movie because it has nipples. :lol

She wasn't too pleased.

Entropy
11-12-2008, 02:00 PM
Then he went to my aunt and said he wants to see this movie because it has nipples. :lol


Your cousin and me both. :naughty

Just don't tell him about the dog murder, rape scene, or glowing blue wang. :lol

King Darkness
11-12-2008, 02:01 PM
Sounds like a smart kid.

IrishJedi
11-12-2008, 08:21 PM
DC shows November 5, 2008 for the Absolute.

http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/graphic_novels/?gn=4040

I'd really like to get another copy of it, but I can't find it locally (yet)

Amazon and TFAW.com both have it up for pre-order.

BTW, I got the issues of EGM and Toyfare in the mail today. Both feature WATCHMEN cover stories. Toyfare was pretty dull. No new DC Direct (or Hot Toys) figure announcements. The EGM article on the game, however, is quite exhaustive. Several pages with tons of pictures. Here are some of the main tidbits I gathered on the videogame:

- It takes place in 1972

- The first episode consists of 6 chapters. Rorschach & Nite Owl only characters you play. Will be available for download on Xbox Live, PSN, and Steam in March

- The Underboss will be in the game

- Nite Owl is the one with the grappling gun in the game, as he hasn't given it to Rorschach yet

- Rorschach has a "rage meter" for brawling while Nite Owl relies more on gadgets and suit technology

- Archie (the Owl Ship) is indeed in the game

- Len Wein wrote the stories and all the dialogue

- There will be cut scenes done in the same style as the Watchmen Motion Comic

- Rorschach will narrate the game (like a journal, I suppose)

- Both Jackie Earl Haley and Patrick Wilson do the voice work for their characters

CelticPredator
11-12-2008, 08:26 PM
Yey!

I cant wait to see Jackie....

scubasteve
11-12-2008, 09:26 PM
Thanks for the heads up, Irish, but I finally found a store that had the Absolute Edition in stock. Picked up another along with the Hardcover edition (easier to read than the Absolute).

The only difference I've noticed with this second printing is the slip case has the countdown clock instead of the Comedian smiley. The material itself is the same, and the copyright is still 2005. I prefer the smiley edition :)

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 12:22 AM
** NEW TRAILER ALERT!! **

Debuts tonight (Thursday, November 13th) at 8:00 PM ET / 5:00 PM PT on Yahoo!

http://movies.yahoo.com/

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1

:rock :joy :rock :joy :rock :joy

CelticPredator
11-13-2008, 10:44 AM
Nicccceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 05:59 PM
IT'S UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rock :rock :rock

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1

darthviper107
11-13-2008, 06:05 PM
Freaking awesome. I love that shot with them all there posing for a picture.

Entropy
11-13-2008, 06:28 PM
Hot damn! :rock

Only thing is didn't like was the constant references to the team as "The Watchmen".

Scar
11-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Jesus. They're doing it. They're actually going to make the Watchmen literally in virtual lockstep with the graphic novel. My hopes have been realized.

Also excited that the fight coordinators have been carried over by Snyder from 300!

TDK forged the path, and the Watchmen is treading upon it. Comicbook movies are going to be different from now on, and this may very well be the Citizen Kane of comic films. :rock :rock :rock

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 06:37 PM
Hot damn! :rock

Only thing is didn't like was the constant references to the team as "The Watchmen".

Yeah, I hate that, too. Watchmen was never an official group name in the book. It was just Minutemen and The Crimebusters. General audience pandering, I guess. Well, at least they drop the "The". It's just "Watchmen". (I'm looking at you, Scar :lol )

Entropy
11-13-2008, 06:42 PM
I don't know if it's pandering so much as trying to make the ideas in the book clear enough for a mass audience. They're gonna have to spell out all the little bits Moore hinted at, touch upon or left for the reader to make the connections about.


Well, at least they drop the "The". It's just "Watchmen". (I'm looking at you, Scar :lol )

It's also Citizen Kane. :monkey3 :lol

Scar
11-13-2008, 06:47 PM
Yeah, I hate that, too. Watchmen was never an official group name in the book. It was just Minutemen and The Crimebusters. General audience pandering, I guess. Well, at least they drop the "The". It's just "Watchmen". (I'm looking at you, Scar :lol )

Sorry. It's a habit when I refer to things I think require respect, such as calling Sauron "The Dark Lord" and Palpatine "The Emperor", Watchmen confusion aside... sorry, I'll differ to just Watchmen and beat the OCD demon inside me so as not to confuse peoples. :duh Now the Citizen Kane comment was a brain fart... and I will admit that I can't even take credit for the reference as a friend just pointed it out and I have to agree it will be that. :D

Agreed, I wasn't big on them referring to themselves as the Watchmen, but I think it's going to work well in the final picture. Jesus Christ I'm so ^^^^ing pumped for this movie right now. :rock

King Darkness
11-13-2008, 06:53 PM
IT'S UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rock :rock :rock

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1

:monkey2 :monkey2 :monkey2 :monkey2 :monkey2

That was f'n beautiful!

I had chills watching that preview:o

Scar
11-13-2008, 06:55 PM
I enjoyed the Comedian's reaction at the beginning when turning to meet the intruder, and Rorschach has excellent menace, which is precisely as it should be.

I still remain more than a bit curious as to how they're going to handle the ending...

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 07:05 PM
:rock :rock :rock :rock

:banana

:duff

Batty
11-13-2008, 07:06 PM
:monkey2 :monkey2 :monkey2 :monkey2 :monkey2

That was f'n beautiful!

I had chills watching that preview:o

What a pansy. :rolleyes:


Excellent trailer! :rock

King Darkness
11-13-2008, 07:08 PM
What a pansy. :rolleyes:


Excellent trailer! :rock

I watched it 3 more times and got a bonero :rock

Scar
11-13-2008, 07:11 PM
Guess it's just a matter of time until a "who's hotter" poll: Silk Spectre I or Silk Spectre II. :drool :drool :drool

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 07:15 PM
Guess it's just a matter of time until a "who's hotter" poll: Silk Spectre I or Silk Spectre II. :drool :drool :drool

Well, they're both extremely hot in their own ways. But since I am partial to little sexy Italian chicks (i.e. Carla Gugino) I gotta go with Sally/Silk Spectre I. :naughty

Scar
11-13-2008, 07:31 PM
Well, they're both extremely hot in their own ways. But since I am partial to little sexy Italian chicks (i.e. Carla Gugino) I gotta go with Sally/Silk Spectre I. :naughty

I'm with ya. Silk Spectre II has her appeal, but Silk Spectre I is vintage hot and an icon of sexuality. :drool

I'm glad to have another outlet to discuss Watchmen. My best friends who are die hard Watchmen fans are in Philly, and I have to wait until Christmas when I can discuss it with my girlfriend (hope she likes her present :D).

Anyone else excited to see how they do Tales of the Black Freighter as well? Pretty stoked to see how they deal with it on the animated DVD; industries have been pushing the envelope with animated releases geared towards more adult audiences... Turok comes to mind. Seeing it cut into the movie on the SE DVD will be awesome!

scubasteve
11-13-2008, 07:33 PM
Love the look on Comedian's face, knowing death was here but not caring.

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 07:34 PM
Anyone else excited to see how they do Tales of the Black Freighter as well? Pretty stoked to see how they deal with it on the animated DVD; industries have been pushing the envelope with animated releases geared towards more adult audiences... Turok comes to mind. Seeing it cut into the movie on the SE DVD will be awesome!

Yep. I am quite looking forward to both that and the "Under The Hood" documentary.

Scar
11-13-2008, 07:41 PM
Love the look on Comedian's face, knowing death was here but not caring.

That look of mingled acceptance and still the roiling urge to fight. Badass to the bitter end! :rock

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 07:44 PM
The opening scene is reportedly pretty epic. Blake is pretty easily dispatched by Ozy but he puts up a good fight.

Scar
11-13-2008, 07:53 PM
The opening scene is reportedly pretty epic. Blake is pretty easily dispatched by Ozy but he puts up a good fight.


You're Goddamn right he does. In any capacity, the Comedian remains a fighter.

Kabukiman
11-13-2008, 08:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm just as stoked as anybody about this movie, but... the new trailer seems kinda anti-climactic when compared with the first.

As far as trailers go, the first one was a masterpiece, this one was just a commercial for a movie.

It sounds stupid, I know. They're both commercials. But still, the first one invoked a lot more emotion than this one.

Oh well, it doesn't matter, I still can't wait for this thing! :banana

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 09:16 PM
The purpose of this trailer is simply to explain the overall idea/plot of the film for mass audiences who know nothing of WATCHMEN. It makes perfect sense when you view it in that regard.

The teaser (and especially the SpikeTV Scream footage reel) were clearly cut with WATCHMEN fans in mind first. Now they have to sell it to everyone else.

CelticPredator
11-13-2008, 09:18 PM
I know what you mean Kab. But I think thats the point. I mean...they HAVE to sell it to the normal people...

And im sure thats why they called the "Minutemen" Watchmen. You can kinda tell its overdubbed. If they said minutemen, and the title said "WATCHMEN"...people might be like "WTF?".

But I LOVED the trailer. Wish the "Beginning blah blah end" song was still there....but hey. Rorschach was ^^^^ing BAMF!!!!!

Kabukiman
11-13-2008, 09:47 PM
Understood about the general audience thing. :peace


Rorschach was ^^^^ing BAMF!!!!!

Yes he was! :maul

CelticPredator
11-13-2008, 09:49 PM
Now ok. Lets get back to the ending issue. Someone brought up an intresting point about the squidlessness...


mean, come on, a dude discovers an island where a kidnapped team of people are working on a nightmarish alien force unleashing a psychic wave of terror...

Or a big energy blast - how *beep* g ay.

For actual fans of the graphic novel and not the blissfully ignorant, trolls, plain stpuid of us, how did you feel knowing that there was something that was so terrible that it caused a man who is an icon of ammorality to fall to his knees crying like a child. Remember how the groundwork gripped you into wanting to know what horrors lie on that island so badly. Now imagine all of this about a big bad energy explosion.



Sounds like hardcore ^^^^^in...but he makes a decent point. What could happen in those scenes now?

Like I said, im going to wait and see.

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 10:00 PM
Whatever. Destroying 1/3 of NYC and killing millions of innocent people is hardly small potatoes. Some purist fans are just way too dead-set against any climax that does not include the Giant Alien ****** Squid. These folks need to chill out with a nice glass of wine (or is it "whine") and a plate of Calamari. :lol

darthviper107
11-13-2008, 10:02 PM
But since they shot the squid version also then it'll at least be on the DVD/Blu-Ray

So it's not quite losing out if they don't have it in there.

CelticPredator
11-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Whatever. Destroying 1/3 of NYC and killing millions of innocent people is hardly small potatoes. Some purist fans are just way too dead-set against any climax that does not include the Giant Alien ****** Squid. These folks need to chill out with a nice glass of wine (or is it "whine") and a plate of Calamari. :lol

Oh I agree. I just thought it was something to think aboot.

LOTRFan
11-13-2008, 10:04 PM
But since they shot the squid version also then it'll at least be on the DVD/Blu-Ray

So it's not quite losing out if they don't have it in there.

I wasn't aware that this had been confirmed.

CelticPredator
11-13-2008, 10:06 PM
He never did anything with the squid.

Entropy
11-13-2008, 10:07 PM
But since they shot the squid version also then it'll at least be on the DVD/Blu-Ray

So it's not quite losing out if they don't have it in there.

I believe Synder confirmed they only shot 1 ending. :monkey2

IrishJedi
11-13-2008, 10:22 PM
Looks like even more new footage tomorrow night!


MTV’s ‘Spoilers’ Movie Show To Feature Exclusive Previews Of ‘Watchmen,’ ‘The Spirit’ Friday Night

Published by Rick Marshall on Thursday, November 13, 2008 at 12:07 pm.

Set your alarm clock for this Friday at 7:30 p.m. ET/PT, folks, as MTV’s new movie show “Spoilers” premieres — and there’s a lot for Splash Page readers to like about this debut episode. While every episode of “Spoilers” will be packed with ridiculous amounts of first-look previews, footage, featurettes and set visits from the most-anticipated upcoming films, the “Spoilers” premiere will include early peeks at two of the most talked-about films in the comics scene: “Watchmen” and “The Spirit.”

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:uma:video:mtv.com:317866" width="512" height="319" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashVars="configParams=vid%3D317866%26uri%3Dmgid%3Auma%3Avid eo%3Amtv.com%3A317866%26startUri=mgid%3Auma%3Avide o%3Amtv.com%3A317866" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="."></embed><div style="margin:0;text-align:center;width:500px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><a href="http://www.mtv.com/ontv/" style="color:#439CD8;" target="_blank">MTV Shows</a></div>

This won't be the same trailer, as it was mentioned on their report of the trailer itself.

wofford29
11-13-2008, 11:33 PM
Sooooo, Rorschach seems to be doing his best Batman voice. It'll be interesting to see how many complaints that draws. I was also hoping the God of all matter would have a little deeper voice. Besides that I liked the new trailer. I swear Edward Morgan Blake and Javier Bardem are brothers.

DarkArtist81
11-14-2008, 12:01 AM
The purpose of this trailer is simply to explain the overall idea/plot of the film for mass audiences who know nothing of WATCHMEN. It makes perfect sense when you view it in that regard.

The teaser (and especially the SpikeTV Scream footage reel) were clearly cut with WATCHMEN fans in mind first. Now they have to sell it to everyone else.

That's how I saw it as well... Still loved it though, even with the exposition and a not as awesome song. I can't wait for this movie. :rock

plasmid303
11-14-2008, 12:08 AM
Sooooo, Rorschach seems to be doing his best Batman voice. It'll be interesting to see how many complaints that draws. I was also hoping the God of all matter would have a little deeper voice. Besides that I liked the new trailer. I swear Edward Morgan Blake and Javier Bardem are brothers.

I always imagined Rorshach's voice to sound like that, and after watching the animated Watchmen Motion comic on iTunes, I assume that's how his voice is supposed to sound. I don't know how else he's supposed to sound, judging by his character. Batman didn't invent the gravely, growling voice.

I don't mind Manhattan's voice. I'd rather they not add any processing to Crudup's work (well, not aurally, at least).

Okay, there's a carryover from 300 I see in this trailer (and the first Watchmen trailer) that I do not like: overuse of slow-motion cinematography. Not every action sequence has to be slowed down for the audience to appreciate the choreography, Mr. Snyder (again, 300).

wofford29
11-14-2008, 12:14 AM
I always imagined Rorshach's voice to sound like that, and after watching the animated Watchmen Motion comic on iTunes, I assume that's how his voice is supposed to sound. I don't know how else he's supposed to sound, judging by his character. Batman didn't invent the gravely, growling voice.

I don't mind Manhattan's voice. I'd rather they not add any processing to Crudup's work (well, not aurally, at least).

Okay, there's a carryover from 300 I see in this trailer (and the first Watchmen trailer) that I do not like: overuse of slow-motion cinematography. Not every action sequence has to be slowed down for the audience to appreciate the choreography, Mr. Snyder (again, 300).

I guess you didn't get the point in my post. I never said anyone invented a voice. Only that with the way everyone complains about Bale's Batman voice and Healy's Rorscharch voice is virtually identical it will be interesting to see if these same people take issue with it as well.

I agree about the slow motion. Hopefully it's just for the trailers.

plasmid303
11-14-2008, 12:26 AM
Surely there are other movie characters out there who sound like Bale Batman. How many times do you hear the comparisons? Not many, at least, from where I'm sitting. I don't think there will be any complaints. People had issues with the Bat-voice because it was unlike anything they've heard before in the previous Batman incarnations, whether it be live-action or animated. I don't see that problem with Rorshach.

I didn't think of Batman once while watching either Watchmen trailers, and honestly I don't think they sound alike (especially in Rorshach's "I'll whisper, NO" line).

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 01:20 AM
I have no problem with Rorschach's voice and it actually makes more sense than Bale's Batman voice, because Kovacs/Rorschach is a full-on sociopath who has lost it. And it doesn't even seem/sound as forced as Bale's anyway.

Scar
11-14-2008, 04:09 AM
I have no problem with Rorschach's voice and it actually makes more sense than Bale's Batman voice, because Kovacs/Rorschach is a full-on sociopath who has lost it. And it doesn't even seem/sound as forced as Bale's anyway.

I'm actually tired of people trying that "I hated his voice" contention. It's meant to be a growl that intimidates. It ties in with the primal, bestial aspect established in the first film. It makes sense in the context and it works.

An excellent observation that Rorschach's voice sounds much the same way, which is oddly exactly as I imagined it. The idea behind that low growl of a voice is the same as Batman's. Intimidation. Rorschach doesn't mince words, he gets the job done; if that means he needs to break a few bones or thrown someone down an elevator shaft, he's on it. The biggest and burliest out on the street are fearful of him... and as we know, even those locked away who think they have the upper hand come to know better. Can't have a man who thrives on instilling fear in criminality sounding like the guy nextdoor.

It will be interesting to see those who won't complain about Rorschach's voice but complained about Bats's. If anyone takes a serious gripe with it though, I may puke in my mouth.

wofford29
11-14-2008, 04:50 AM
I'm actually tired of people trying that "I hated his voice" contention. It's meant to be a growl that intimidates. It ties in with the primal, bestial aspect established in the first film. It makes sense in the context and it works.

An excellent observation that Rorschach's voice sounds much the same way, which is oddly exactly as I imagined it. The idea behind that low growl of a voice is the same as Batman's. Intimidation. Rorschach doesn't mince words, he gets the job done; if that means he needs to break a few bones or thrown someone down an elevator shaft, he's on it. The biggest and burliest out on the street are fearful of him... and as we know, even those locked away who think they have the upper hand come to know better. Can't have a man who thrives on instilling fear in criminality sounding like the guy nextdoor.

It will be interesting to see those who won't complain about Rorschach's voice but complained about Bats's. If anyone takes a serious gripe with it though, I may puke in my mouth.


Well said sir. I've always been one of the rare few that actually love Bale's Bat voice. IMO outside of Healy and Bale obviously being two different people the voice sounds almost identical. Anywho, back to the Watchmen.

CelticPredator
11-14-2008, 06:40 AM
The Slo Mo stays. Thats Snyder's style. And since every action movie now, has the Bourne Style....I pefer to actually see the fights.

Kabukiman
11-14-2008, 06:47 AM
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/2508/cartoontg6.jpg

http://www.freshmanforlife.com/search/label/Blotchmen

CelticPredator
11-14-2008, 06:53 AM
Ronch Ronch Ronch.

YoNoSe
11-14-2008, 07:42 AM
I have no problem with Rorschach's voice and it actually makes more sense than Bale's Batman voice, because Kovacs/Rorschach is a full-on sociopath who has lost it. And it doesn't even seem/sound as forced as Bale's anyway.

I agree and I think what helps is that, although it deals with realistic themes, Watchmen is not trying to look "real." I think Bale's voice seems silly in TDK because it's extremely affected in an otherwise mundane looking (and sounding) movie. Until that aesthetic goes off the rails w/ Harvey's face, but that's another discussion...

I was happy to hear Manhattan's voice the way Snyder described it - deliberately normal.

Scar
11-14-2008, 09:17 AM
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/2508/cartoontg6.jpg

http://www.freshmanforlife.com/search/label/Blotchmen

:rotfl Rorschach's extortion knows no bounds... particularly when it comes to plums...:naughty



I also like Dr. Manhattan's voice. He's this virtually omnipotent and omniscent being who is otherwise well-meaning, but seems to lack common sense; he just has still more knowledge where he should have common sense. I have friends like that (minus the omnipotent and omniscent part). This is a guy I feel I've been hanging out with for years. :D

Really, though, he's this benign (no pun intended) individual who just seeks to acquire more knowledge; that's what makes Laurie so important in the story with Jon. His loving connection to her is, in many ways, his last vestige of true humanity.

wofford29
11-14-2008, 09:24 AM
I just always figured with the accident and all his vocal cords would have been affected as well, so the voice I always imagined in my head didn't sound like jo shmo.

Scar
11-14-2008, 10:03 AM
I just always figured with the accident and all his vocal cords would have been affected as well, so the voice I always imagined in my head didn't sound like jo shmo.

See, I'm not so sure, since he walked around with the sign and having people just think him an apocalyptic nutjob; might have been telling to some of the ilk who wandered the street if this guy had the voice of Rorschach. Then again, it is very hard to infer from just print, and we know that he is startling to the man who runs the newsstand when he approaches him from behind unexpectedly... maybe it has something to do with his voice, or maybe just because he's a creepy sort of guy. I'll be curious to see how the movie handles it, but I like to think of the gruff voice as part of who he is when he dons the mask of Rorschach, otherwise using a regular voice when walking about in public as this hobo predicting the end of the world.

Kuzeh
11-14-2008, 10:13 AM
The new trailer looks amazing!!
Wow!!!

tomandshell
11-14-2008, 10:21 AM
Just now got to finally sit down and watch the trailer and I couldn't wait to get back here and see all the inevitable comments about the "Batman" voice. It didn't bother me and it fit what I expected of the character, but to be honest I did think of Bale when I first heard it. But that's not a negative.

At any rate, that was a great trailer!

darthviper107
11-14-2008, 10:23 AM
I like the slow-motion. I think for graphic novel adaptions that it helps to create thepanels of action. It adds an emphasis on the action. I'm sure it'll be less than 300 though.

Darth Caedus
11-14-2008, 10:25 AM
So I'm rereading the novel for the umptinth time and am getting more and more excited about the movie.....

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 10:32 AM
I like the slow-motion. I think for graphic novel adaptions that it helps to create thepanels of action. It adds an emphasis on the action. I'm sure it'll be less than 300 though.

It will be less. There's not as much action here as in 300.

Oh, and one more thing... just for the record:

Rorschach > Batman

Darth Caedus
11-14-2008, 10:35 AM
I can watch it over and over again. going to post it here so I don't have to go to another site

<object width="400" height="327" id="uvp_fop"><param name="movie" value="http://l.yimg.com/cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/fop/embedflv/swf/fop.swf"></param><param name="flashVars" value="id=10658091&rd=eyc-off&ympsc=&postpanelEnable=1&prepanelEnable=1&infopanelEnable=1&carouselEnable=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed width="400" height="327" id="uvp_fop" allowscriptaccess="always" src="http://l.yimg.com/cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/fop/embedflv/swf/fop.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashvars="id=10658091&rd=eyc-off&ympsc=&prepanelEnable=1&infopanelEnable=1"></embed></object>

Rogue Trooper
11-14-2008, 10:39 AM
Damn, i keep watching the trailer but at the same time i don't want to see anymore so that i don't ruin what it going to look like.

Looks like the guy who plays Rorschach copied the way Alan Moore reads it as.

tomandshell
11-14-2008, 10:53 AM
One thing that troubled me during Spider-Man was the inability to see the faces of Spidey and the Green Goblin. When the entire face is covered up and you can't see the mouth move, it can feel like Power Rangers with a celebrity voice over. In the following two films, they tried to go for villains with faces (except for six minutes of Venom) and gave Spidey every opportunity to remove his mask so that we were seeing a human face as often as possible.

One good thing about Batman on screen is that you can see Bale's eyes and mouth and you get enough of a sense of the actor beneath the mask. Rorschach doesn't have that going for him--we won't have eyes or mouth to connect to while he speaks. People will naturally focus on the voice because that's primarily what they're being given. Thankfully, they cast someone who was good for the part rather than a big name celebrity whose voice would really stick out. I don't think that Jackie Earle Haley's voice or acting will be distracting--he'll do a good job and once you settle in to the film (rather than a few seconds of a trailer) everything will work fine in context.

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 10:59 AM
One thing that troubled me during Spider-Man was the inability to see the faces of Spidey and the Green Goblin. When the entire face is covered up and you can't see the mouth move, it can feel like Power Rangers with a celebrity voice over. In the following two films, they tried to go for villains with faces (except for six minutes of Venom) and gave Spidey every opportunity to remove his mask so that we were seeing a human face as often as possible.

One good thing about Batman on screen is that you can see Bale's eyes and mouth and you get enough of a sense of the actor beneath the mask. Rorschach doesn't have that going for him--we won't have eyes or mouth to connect to while he speaks. People will naturally focus on the voice because that's primarily what they're being given. Thankfully, they cast someone who was good for the part rather than a big name celebrity whose voice would really stick out. I don't think that Jackie Earle Haley's voice or acting will be distracting--he'll do a good job and once you settle in to the film (rather than a few seconds of a trailer) everything will work fine in context.

Not a concern. Consider Rorschach's ever-changing ink blots on the mask. That will get peoples' attention and prevent it from being someone talking beneath a stagnant mask or helmet.

Also, you can actually see him forming the words beneath the mask much moreso than in Spider-Man. Watch the shot in the trailer where he says "Maybe someone's picking off costumed heroes." It's great.

Darth Caedus
11-14-2008, 11:03 AM
God I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hate them calling the group Watchmen

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 11:08 AM
God I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hate them calling the group Watchmen

Yeah, I don't like it, either... but I have to think it won't be as prominent in the film as it seems in the trailer (the purpose of which is to introduce the masses to the story).

But, yeah, there never was a Watchmen in the book. It was Minutemen (in the 40's) and then The Crimebusters... but the Crimebusters only ever had that one meeting. There wasn't an organized group and the only real partners were Rorschach and Nite Owl.

It also appears as if they've gotten rid of Captain Metropolis as the organizer of The Crimebusters and made that Ozymandias, which would be really odd.

King Darkness
11-14-2008, 11:10 AM
I dont mind it. It never expected and 100% conversion from comic to film, and a lot of the changes are made for the mases, dumbed down. Its cool with me, I know whats what and thats all that matters.

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 11:14 AM
I dont mind it. It never expected and 100% conversion from comic to film, and a lot of the changes are made for the mases, dumbed down. Its cool with me, I know whats what and thats all that matters.

Oh, I'm with ya. Unlike Rorschach, I will accept some compromises for the greater good. :peace

Cap'n Cook
11-14-2008, 11:14 AM
Watch the shot in the trailer where he says "Maybe someone's picking off costumed heroes." It's great.

Where's THAT at?!? I don't think I've seen it. Any link to it please?

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 11:16 AM
Where's THAT at?!? I don't think I've seen it. Any link to it please?

Darth Caedus embedded the new trailer in a post about 8-9 posts before yours. And there is also a link to the new trailer Yahoo:

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watchmen.html?showVideo=1

King Darkness
11-14-2008, 11:20 AM
Oh, I'm with ya. Unlike Rorschach, I will accept some compromises for the greater good. :peace


:rock :rock :rock :rock :rock :rock :rock

From what I have read and seen we are getting about a 90%-95% conversion, that is more than enough for me!!

On the voices issue, Rorschach sounded pretty much exactly as he sounded in my head as I read, like he is talking through clinched teeth all the time, and for the most part John too.

When I read John, in my head his voice was very soft and monotone, free of emotional ups and downs, almost a whisper. Like someone who has taken way to much oxycodone :lol Seriously though :cool:

Satisfied and both counts.

Cap'n Cook
11-14-2008, 11:20 AM
Ah sorry. Thanks for the link.

EDIT: .......wow.

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 11:23 AM
:rock :rock :rock :rock :rock :rock :rock

From what I have read and seen we are getting about a 90%-95% conversion, that is more than enough for me!!

On the voices issue, Rorschach sounded pretty much exactly as he sounded in my head as I read, and for the most part John too.

When I read John, in my head his voice was very soft and monotone, free of emotional ups and downs, almost a whisper. Like someone who has taken way to much oxycodone :lol Seriously though :cool:

Satisfied and both counts.

Same here. And the notion is that Dr. Manhattan can sound however he wants to, so he chooses to sound "normal" to make it easier for those around him. However, we can already see that he can sound different when he needs to... the "Leave me alone!!!" bit in the trailer was also perfect and right out of the book. I imagine he'll also sound different when he's 50 feet tall.

King Darkness
11-14-2008, 11:25 AM
Same here. And the notion is that Dr. Manhattan can sound however he wants to, so he chooses to sound "normal" to make it easier for those around him. However, we can already see that he can sound different when he needs to... the "Leave me alone!!!" bit in the trailer was also perfect and right out of the book. I imagine he'll also sound different when he's 50 feet tall.


Yeah, the "Leave me alone!!" was perfect.

Damn it, I wish the was out already :banghead

UTtoyfan
11-14-2008, 11:27 AM
Yeah, the "Leave me alone!!" was perfect.

Damn it, I wish the was out already :banghead

Me too! The trailer was great!:banana
Like so many others, I'm going to re-read the novel again in the upcoming weeks.

wofford29
11-14-2008, 12:40 PM
See, I'm not so sure, since he walked around with the sign and having people just think him an apocalyptic nutjob; might have been telling to some of the ilk who wandered the street if this guy had the voice of Rorschach. Then again, it is very hard to infer from just print, and we know that he is startling to the man who runs the newsstand when he approaches him from behind unexpectedly... maybe it has something to do with his voice, or maybe just because he's a creepy sort of guy. I'll be curious to see how the movie handles it, but I like to think of the gruff voice as part of who he is when he dons the mask of Rorschach, otherwise using a regular voice when walking about in public as this hobo predicting the end of the world.

I was referring to Jon's voice.

wofford29
11-14-2008, 01:09 PM
Gotta love the first half of the trailer using Phillip Glass' "Pruit Igoe." It was also used in the first GTA IV trailer earlier this year if anyone is wondering where they probably heard it before.

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 04:36 PM
I am going to the unthinkable and actually tune my TV into MTV tonight to watch this "Spoilers" show with the new WATCHMEN footage.

I'll then immediately take a hot shower and burn the clothes I was wearing.

Batty
11-14-2008, 05:00 PM
Gotta love the first half of the trailer using Phillip Glass' "Pruit Igoe." It was also used in the first GTA IV trailer earlier this year if anyone is wondering where they probably heard it before.

Thanks for that. I knew it was Philip Glass, I just didn't know which song. I think I even own the CD.

Darth Caedus
11-14-2008, 05:06 PM
I am going to the unthinkable and actually tune my TV into MTV tonight to watch this "Spoilers" show with the new WATCHMEN footage.

I'll then immediately take a hot shower and burn the clothes I was wearing.

WAIT.WAIT.WAIT.WAIT.WAIT. You mean that MTV showed something other than reality shows?????

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 05:56 PM
Thanks for that. I knew it was Philip Glass, I just didn't know which song. I think I even own the CD.

It's track 6 on the Koyaanisqatsi soundtrack. Also, the music in the very beginning of the trailer (Blake's apt) is from "Prophecies" (Track 8) and was also used in the SDCC footage and may actually be used in the film for when Rorschach is investigating.

I just watched the MTV stuff, by the way. Total waste of time.

Batty
11-14-2008, 05:59 PM
It's track 6 on the Koyaanisqatsi soundtrack. Also, the music in the very beginning of the trailer (Blake's apt) is from "Prophecies" (Track 8) and was also used in the SDCC footage and may actually be used in the film for when Rorschach is investigating.

I just watched the MTV stuff, by the way. Total waste of time.

Yeah, I just checked... I do have the CD. :lol

What did they show on MTV?

IrishJedi
11-14-2008, 06:05 PM
What did they show on MTV?

This:

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:uma:video:mtv.com:318420" width="512" height="319" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashVars="configParams=vid%3D318420%26uri%3Dmgid%3Auma%3Avid eo%3Amtv.com%3A318420%26startUri=mgid%3Auma%3Avide o%3Amtv.com%3A318420" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="."></embed><div style="margin:0;text-align:center;width:500px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><a href="http://www.mtv.com/movies/trailer_park/" style="color:#439CD8;" target="_blank">Movie Trailers</a> - <a href="http://moviesblog.mtv.com/" style="color:#439CD8;" target="_blank">Movies Blog</a></div>

Pretty cool, but not at all worth all the hullabaloo, imho.

And is it just me or does it look like Ozy is wearing a Jedi robe in that one shot?

wofford29
11-14-2008, 11:50 PM
Alright you know someone from this movie is going to break out after it's release and become mainstream, I've always thought Patrick Wilson was right on the cusp of breaking out at any minute but I'm not sure this will be it for him. I think this will be Jeffrey Dean Morgan's coming out party though.

Entropy
11-15-2008, 12:25 AM
Alright you know someone from this movie is going to break out after it's release and become mainstream, I've always thought Patrick Wilson was right on the cusp of breaking out at any minute but I'm not sure this will be it for him. I think this will be Jeffrey Dean Morgan's coming out party though.

Completely agree. JDM will steal the show along with Jackie Earle Haley.

I think Billy Crudup will do an ok job, but I keep hearing Tom Stechshulte's voice, who reads the Watchmen motion comic, when I see Dr. M.

Cap'n Cook
11-15-2008, 04:18 AM
Pretty cool footage, but I wanna see Kovacs in action.

Cheers for posting it though!

IrishJedi
11-17-2008, 02:29 AM
I was searching online earlier for some set pics for a side project and came across this cool pic of Dave Gibbons on the Minutemen/Crimebusters HQ set that for some reason I'd never seen before. Look... Dollar Bill's costume (complete with blood stains and bullet holes)!!!:

http://images.comicbookresources.com/reel/watchmen/davegibbons.jpg

:rock :rock :rock

Darth Caedus
11-17-2008, 03:04 AM
I was searching online earlier for some set pics for a side project and came across this cool pic of Dave Gibbons on the Minutemen/Crimebusters HQ set that for some reason I'd never seen before. Look... Dollar Bill's costume (complete with blood stains and bullet holes)!!!:

http://images.comicbookresources.com/reel/watchmen/davegibbons.jpg

:rock :rock :rock

NICE !!!! Always good to see that stuff.

Wonder if Alan Moore was secretly in the background trying to burn the place down.......

IrishJedi
11-17-2008, 03:38 AM
It's occurred to me that there is just an incredible amount of detailed props and set decor for this film that could probably justify some type of official museum showing (like they've done with the Star Wars props in recent years). Maybe even a small tour? I hope they at least consider something like that. It was an amazing thrill seeing the Owl Ship at SDCC (and being able to peek inside was one of the coolest geek moments ever)... to see all the other stuff (costumes, props, set pieces, etc) would just be amazing.

At the very least, I hope one of the upcoming Titan books on the film (there are three) has a lot of this stuff sufficiently archived in photos.

Entropy
11-17-2008, 10:02 AM
Chapter 5 of the motion comic, maybe my favorite chapter, came out today. :banana

IrishJedi
11-17-2008, 01:06 PM
Chapter 5 of the motion comic, maybe my favorite chapter, came out today. :banana

Sweet. Thanks for the heads-up.

Time to partake in some Fearful Symmetry. :rock

barbelith
11-17-2008, 05:53 PM
From what I have read and seen we are getting about a 90%-95% conversion, that is more than enough for me!

It seems to be a very "missing the forest for the trees" conversion though, especially since it's pulling a V for Vendetta with a rewrite of the climax that completely undermines the entire point of the book. :)

plasmid303
11-17-2008, 05:56 PM
No squid? No problem. Perhaps it's just another creature instead? Or are they rewriting the entire ending?

barbelith
11-17-2008, 06:09 PM
No squid? No problem.

Spoiler:
No squid. Veidt frames Manhattan for a 9/11 style event. This is incredibly retarded for several reasons. The point of the squid is to present an external and incomprehensible threat that forces the world to unite in global peace (and it's important to remember everyone on Earth experiences the squid because of a psychic link; it literally becomes everyone's shared pain). Manhattan is a US agent and fought in Vietnam; people would associate him with US military action and so any frame would only cast the US in a questionable light at best. We've had 9/11 and nuclear events in real life and they did not result in the world uniting in global peace. On top of that the book only happens because of the squid; remove the island and deaths of the designers and the Comedian has no discovery, which means Veidt has no motive to kill him, which means Rorshach has nothing to investigate. Worse than that, framing Manhattan is already irrelevant because of the Keene Act stuff and the way costumed heroes were hounded out of operation through the years! And that's just the surface. Removing the squid isn't removing a prop - it's removing the entire engine of the book. As if there wasn't a reason Alan Moore is a genius.

It sounds like we're getting a movie like V for Vendetta. A decent film, well shot, slavishly frame for frame in some respects but with extraneous "bad ass" moments added in others to keep the kids awake, and ultimately missing the entire point because the screenwriters decide they're cleverer than Alan Moore and rewrite the climax. Because seriously? Anyone who reads V for Vendetta and thinks an army of people dressed up just like V makes any sense whatsoever in the context of the book needs to go back to remedial English.

It's just very frustrating, because it looks like Snyder got so much right. But not the one thing that actually mattered, which was the point of it all.

Kabukiman
11-17-2008, 06:28 PM
barbelith stated my feelings on the subject perfectly. However, I'm hoping against hope that they get it right.

I can deal with no squid, but they *need* to convey the feelings that ending brought forth. If not, then why adapt the story at all?

Doc Manhatten and/or nuclear annihilation will not get the job done (for reasons stated above by barbelith).

I'm still super excited about the movie, because it looks like it's pretty damn faithful and they're not done cutting it yet.

Scar
11-17-2008, 08:21 PM
Wow, a lot happens when you go away for a weekend and miss the flood of posts...

Eh, I'll retain my reservations about the ending until I see how it is handled in the film. The point of the ending is to unite the world against a common threat so that world peace - as close to its actual realization as can probably be conceived - can come to fruition. If the rest of the movie and scenes are accordingly adapted so as to achieve that, I'll be satisfied, squid or no squid.

As to extraneous action, one of the things that makes Watchmen so groundbreaking is that it portrays superheroes as fallible and flawed: potential rapists, murderers, torturers, lechers, and add erectile dysfunction atop the heap for good measure. All of these things considered... they are still superheroes. They are capable of the extraordinary and the film has a duty to be true to the story - to capture both the extraordinary and the ordinary.

Also, I want to echo what others have said about these possibly being career-making roles for JDM and JEH. Just seeing how their portrayals of my two favorite characters appear to be like my dreams come to tangible reality... well, seeing them in the trailers makes me anticipate the movie even more than I was already; which says a lot with it being the 2009 film I'm most looking forward to seeing. :rock

barbelith
11-17-2008, 08:35 PM
The point of the ending is to unite the world against a common threat so that world peace - as close to its actual realization as can probably be conceived - can come to fruition.

That's half of it. The other half is who concocts the scheme and how he sets it in motion. We're meant to question whether Veidt is a hero or a villain. Do the ends justify the means? It's fascinating that the only character who hews to his moral compass in the end is the sociopath. Dan and Laurie and Manhattan do nothing. Are they complicit? Telling the truth would destroy the peace; would doing so make them villains? IMO all of this is why the book was written in the first place; it's the entire point. I can live without the squid as long as the stuff around it is in place.

Unfortunately what appears to be the replacement climax not only undermines most of this stuff but also makes next to no sense within the context of Watchmen. We'll see.


As to extraneous action, one of the things that makes Watchmen so groundbreaking is that it portrays superheroes as fallible and flawed: potential rapists, murderers, torturers, lechers, and add erectile dysfunction atop the heap for good measure. All of these things considered... they are still superheroes.

This is the other thing ... they're not. In fact even the ostensibly "good" characters really only do one thing, which is to bust a cop killer sociopath out of prison. Unless by superheroes you mean they wear costumes.


Just seeing how their portrayals of my two favorite characters appear to be like my dreams come to tangible reality...

I've always found this interesting as well. Everyone's favorite characters seem to be the two psychopaths - both of whom are murderers and one of whom is a rapist. Whereas the most obviously heroic character (Dan) is constantly overlooked.

CelticPredator
11-17-2008, 09:35 PM
The point is, we humans decided to stop fighting each other and face a otherworldy threat. Squid, Dr. Manhatten, whatever it may be. The idea is still the same.

And V for Vendetta is amazing, and makes some fantastic well thought out points.

We dont live in the 1980's...and we dont all live in England, or knew who Thatcher was.

IrishJedi
11-17-2008, 09:37 PM
It's way too early to proclaim with certainty that the film has either succeeded or failed as an adaptation of the book (even though so much of it looks and feels so right at this point). The comparison to V For Vendetta is a bit silly and premature, because it's based almost entirely on speculation and supposition.

And a big reason why The Comedian and Rorschach are so popular is because their characters are the most complex and deconstructive of the lot. In other words, they are the farthest from the one-dimensional (and utterly unrealistic) heroes of most comic books. Blake reflects the narcissism and cold vanity that would surely be inherent in many heroes, though he's ultimately revealed to have a heart as well. And Rorschach? Well, he illustrates why characters like Batman are pretty unrealistic. Real human can't delve into the madness of dealing with killers like that without losing themselves. He's Nietzsche's theory done as a fully-dimensional fictional character.

CelticPredator
11-17-2008, 09:39 PM
Also...Dan is fat, and boring. Great character sure...but from both an artistic standpoint...and just an all around fun standpoint...he's quite boring.

IrishJedi
11-17-2008, 09:53 PM
Dan is the complete mirror image of Blake, and works perfectly from that standpoint.

Scar
11-17-2008, 10:23 PM
That's half of it. The other half is who concocts the scheme and how he sets it in motion. We're meant to question whether Veidt is a hero or a villain. Do the ends justify the means? It's fascinating that the only character who hews to his moral compass in the end is the sociopath. Dan and Laurie and Manhattan do nothing. Are they complicit? Telling the truth would destroy the peace; would doing so make them villains? IMO all of this is why the book was written in the first place; it's the entire point. I can live without the squid as long as the stuff around it is in place.

Unfortunately what appears to be the replacement climax not only undermines most of this stuff but also makes next to no sense within the context of Watchmen. We'll see.

It's a hallmark of some of the greatest villains of all time that they are able to jusity their actions "for the greater good." It is precisely what Veidt achieves. Does this make him a villain? Well, considering the collateral damage his plan reaps, the answer is simple and straighforward from a deontological standpoint, not to mention the volume. From a utilitarian view, one can't help but see the elegance of Viedt's plan, nor the nobility of its aim. It's a grey area that we're asked to delve into in order to see which characters we end up sympathizing with when the chips finally fall.



This is the other thing ... they're not. In fact even the ostensibly "good" characters really only do one thing, which is to bust a cop killer sociopath out of prison. Unless by superheroes you mean they wear costumes.

Exactly. They are "superheroes" in the sense that they are all costumed, often powerful individuals who are crusading towards an end that they are capable of justifying as that which is in society's benefit. Still, like I mentioned above, just the ability to say it is in everyone's best interest doesn't make one irrefutably right. One man's hero is another man's villain. That's part of the magnificent appeal of Watchmen; we have to confront that "hero" is not a black and white concept. I tend to overlook Blake being an attempted rapist, considering the relationship he had with Sally Jupiter, and the fact that it has been left so murky. Still, the two sociopaths remain the most popular; telling of our culture isn't it? Perhaps that's part of the point the Comedian and Rorschach were both trying to make in their own ways. ;)

CelticPredator
11-17-2008, 10:26 PM
Dan is the complete mirror image of Blake, and works perfectly from that standpoint.

Sure....whatever...but Ror and Blake are ten times more fun to read.....:D

Dan just mopes and has sex with Laurie.

Rorscach throws people off elevator shafts for being annoying. :lol


(no I'm not being serious at all.)

barbelith
11-18-2008, 01:55 AM
The point is, we humans decided to stop fighting each other and face a otherworldy threat. Squid, Dr. Manhatten, whatever it may be. The idea is still the same.

It's not actually the same at all. Manhattan isn't an external threat. He's an authorized extension of US military policy and more to the point, people have been preaching hate against the costumed heroes for decades in the Watchmen universe. So using Manhattan as the climactic pivot serves no purpose re: bringing the world together.


And V for Vendetta is amazing, and makes some fantastic well thought out points.

And the point of V in the film is directly at odds with the point of V in the book. That's my worry with changing the climax of Watchmen. We might get a good film that bears an uncanny resemblance to key parts of the book while missing the point altogether. I hope I'm wrong. But then we already have a buff Dan and a group called The Watchmen and the driving engine of the novel's plot admittedly removed by the director. So we'll see.


It's way too early to proclaim with certainty that the film has either succeeded or failed as an adaptation of the book (even though so much of it looks and feels so right at this point).

I agree. But I do think it's fun to discuss the bits and pieces.


The comparison to V For Vendetta is a bit silly and premature, because it's based almost entirely on speculation and supposition.

Not really. It's based on an admission by the director and reading drafts of the script (the latter is something I've avoided incidentally). It may well be that Snyder found a way to incorporate his alternate ending while not undermining the entire point of Veidt's scheme and thus the book itself. But on the face of it, the climax doesn't appear to make any sense. That's worth talking about on a provisional basis. And the V for Vendetta comparison is especially apt because it was an adaptation that got so much right, including entire scenes verbatim, and yet still somehow wound up missing the entire point of the V character because the filmmakers decided they knew better than Alan Moore, and labored under the illusion that perfectly recreated page 42 was somehow more important than ensuring the theme of the book remained intact. Of course we don't know if this will happen with Watchmen, but I don't see the harm in chatting about things.


And a big reason why The Comedian and Rorschach are so popular is because their characters are the most complex and deconstructive of the lot. In other words, they are the farthest from the one-dimensional (and utterly unrealistic) heroes of most comic books.

I can see where you're coming from, but I actually think they're the most simplistic characters in the book. Dan and Laurie are the most complex deconstructions of the lot - especially Dan, with whom Moore eviscerates the typical hero with surgical precision.


It's a hallmark of some of the greatest villains of all time that they are able to jusity their actions "for the greater good." It is precisely what Veidt achieves. Does this make him a villain? Well, considering the collateral damage his plan reaps, the answer is simple and straighforward from a deontological standpoint, not to mention the volume.

This is what makes it such a fascinating plan. Surely our current president is a villain because of the collateral damage his plan reaped? Suddenly things look a lot different, don't they? I submit the answer is not so simple and straightforward at all, and that in fact by having Dan and Laurie forced into complicity by keeping the secret he is destroying the childish notion that there can even be heroes and villains altogether. In many ways there was no need to ever write another superhero comic after Watchmen. I think Moore sees the heroes as villains, which is why his Batman and Captain America analogs are monsters and why the only decent people in the book are the people who sit on the sidelines. This is what the film needs to capture for me, far more than the details of Rorshach being captured or what the owl ship looks like.

(I'm not arguing with you by the way - just thinking aloud.)

Scar
11-18-2008, 05:14 AM
This is what makes it such a fascinating plan. Surely our current president is a villain because of the collateral damage his plan reaped? Suddenly things look a lot different, don't they? I submit the answer is not so simple and straightforward at all, and that in fact by having Dan and Laurie forced into complicity by keeping the secret he is destroying the childish notion that there can even be heroes and villains altogether. In many ways there was no need to ever write another superhero comic after Watchmen. I think Moore sees the heroes as villains, which is why his Batman and Captain America analogs are monsters and why the only decent people in the book are the people who sit on the sidelines. This is what the film needs to capture for me, far more than the details of Rorshach being captured or what the owl ship looks like.

(I'm not arguing with you by the way - just thinking aloud.)

Not at all. Rather I would contend that we are on the same page (graphic novel joke:D), it's what I meant with the "'hero' is not a black and white concept" comment as well as the discussion as to what often characterizes villainy. What Ozy does is not an intentional destruction of the heroism/villainy dynamic. Doubtless he does achieve as much through the resultant activities of every major character knowledgeable of his plan at the end with the exception of Rorschach with his approach to "never compromise". Still, one can't help but comprehend that what Ozymandias has done is something he considers to be the paradigm of heroism... again, as I said, one of the most common characteristics of some of the most infamous villains.

The people who often sit on the sidelines are the only characters who don't end up being morally tarnished usually because they don't play prominent roles in the key situation(s); Does the silence of Dan and Laurie characterize them as bad people? I wouldn't say so at all; they were utterly horrified with what Veidt had done, but they couldn't argue that he had been successful. While all peace is indisputably temporary, Veidt had taken the world from the cusp of nuclear war and achieved peace. To call out Veidt for his wanton murder of millions would mean undoing what he had done and likely catalizing the deaths of millions more still as this sense of common purpose dissolves back into the ether of distrust.

IrishJedi
11-18-2008, 09:43 AM
Pretty cool fan-edited trailer:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OK3KEREDLQc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OK3KEREDLQc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

barbelith
11-18-2008, 12:55 PM
Does the silence of Dan and Laurie characterize them as bad people?

I don't know that it's so much about them being bad people as raising the question of whether Veidt is vindicated in his action.

IrishJedi
11-18-2008, 01:23 PM
It's ambiguous and infinitely debatable. That's what Moral Checkmate means.

barbelith
11-18-2008, 02:18 PM
That's what Moral Checkmate means.

That's the key thing for me. The film has to end in a genuine moral checkmate and Veidt's plan has to actually make sense in the context of the story. From what I understand of the new ending they've botched both of these, but of course there's no way to know for sure until March.

Scar
11-18-2008, 02:56 PM
I don't know that it's so much about them being bad people as raising the question of whether Veidt is vindicated in his action.

I think your own comment above was more precise, but perhaps a little extreme. I don't think that Moore sees heroes as villains necessarily, but simply that even those who profess to be seeking a noble end may have ignoble means, or even selfish motivations.

While I'm not sure everyone here, if anyone, is familiar with deontology, but from that standpoint, yes, it would certainly make our President a villain as you mentioned above. Reason being that he entered into an activity to take life, knowing that lives would be lost in combination with the fact that deontologists hold certain truths to be everlasting and immutable (such as knowingly taking life is always wrong under any circumstances); that's deontology, utilitarianism has yet to ascertain whether or not he can be judged, because it looks at the greatest net good for the greatest number of people and minimizing that which would be considered undesirable; so as you can see, it's rare that conclusions based on utility can be reached in the short-term, if ever. Just a philosophical diatribe, but it does show that things are most assuredly not cut and dry. Oh, and I had better head off everyone by adding this myself: :lecture :wacky


It's ambiguous and infinitely debatable. That's what Moral Checkmate means.

Yea, I think that's more what we're all kind of dancing around as the central issue here. Veidt forced complicity from everyone else via the obvious cconsequences that would result from exposing him as a mass murderer of epic proportions. It's tough trying to find a hole in a plan engineered by the smartest man alive. :rock


That's the key thing for me. The film has to end in a genuine moral checkmate and Veidt's plan has to actually make sense in the context of the story. From what I understand of the new ending they've botched both of these, but of course there's no way to know for sure until March.

Well, I'm not sure how much credibility people but by Kevin Smith, but he usually tells it like it is when it comes to comics and movies. He said that there were some minor changes to the film and one "major change" (which we know by now is the ending), but that the rest is essentially the graphic novel brought to life. Having seen an early cut of the film, he said that every change made sense in the context and even helped the work be brought to film (and still conceding that, as I think IJ said as well, the movie is 90-95% graphic novel).

We can all agree if the changes made alter the ending in such as a way as to subvert the "moral checkmate", then it is a failure. However, from what people have been saying, the movie is anything but, so I am inclined to believe that they pull it off. Considering it is the key fulcrum around which the rest of the story revolves, I imagine they would have plotted such a change very carefully so as to still remain faithful to the inherent plot dynamic. Also, it's probably a wise move for such a widely-anticipated release, to replace the squid with something else. I guarantee people unfamiliar with the story, upon seeing the squid, would utter a resounding "WTF" and be somewhat disenchanted with a film that already asked them to suspend a great measure of disbelief. It is pushing the envelope for the average movie-goer, and I'm not sure how they would all take the ending as we know it.

barbelith
11-18-2008, 03:33 PM
Well, I'm not sure how much credibility people but by Kevin Smith, but he usually tells it like it is when it comes to comics and movies.

I have to confess I don't look at his work and see someone who really understands story. And I think we're in a situation where nailing 95% of the trees is enough for most people even if the forest is completely different. Look at the reaction to V for Vendetta. For many fans it will be enough that the movie "looks like the comic" even if the story winds up quite different.


We can all agree if the changes made alter the ending in such as a way as to subvert the "moral checkmate", then it is a failure. However, from what people have been saying, the movie is anything but, so I am inclined to believe that they pull it off. Considering it is the key fulcrum around which the rest of the story revolves, I imagine they would have plotted such a change very carefully so as to still remain faithful to the inherent plot dynamic.

There has to be something else going on we don't know. I've been going over the "framing Manhattan" thing and still can't figure out the way it works. Not only for all the reasons listed previously, but because it completely removes the moral checkmate of having Dan and Laurie complicit in the secret and Rorshach insisting he's going to tell the world. You'd just be swapping one costumed hero for another.


I guarantee people unfamiliar with the story, upon seeing the squid, would utter a resounding "WTF" and be somewhat disenchanted with a film that already asked them to suspend a great measure of disbelief.

I don't get this attitude at all. People are walking in to a superhero movie with a giant blue genie and tons of people in ridiculous costumes, including a magic mask, to say nothing of Bubastis (and of course Bubastis is a clue in the squid plot). But then again I suppose we're supposed to be thinking The Dark Knight was even vaguely realistic these days. How boring we've become.

But to me it boils down to this: Alan Moore is a genius and Zack Snyder is not. Time lists Watchmen as one of the hundred greatest novels of the 20th century. Not graphic novels. Novels full stop. There's nothing to change.

CelticPredator
11-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Its also for time. It couldnt be 3 hours other wise no IMAX...and the studio didnt really want a 3 hr run time, so things had to go away.

The artists had to go, the pirate story had to go, and without those two things, the squid doesnt work.

How will the ending work now? I dont know. But like I said, i'll wait and see.

Scar
11-18-2008, 04:53 PM
I will as well, but I would hardly stipulate that TDK shows we have become boring as a society.:lol

I would posit that LotR, JP, and JAWS all had plot changes that weren't just minor, but which were drastic departures from the original story (Scouring of the Shire, anyone?). My all time-favorite novels (admitedly alongside Watchmen and TLW), all of which had either glaring omissions or staggering alterations from the original endings, but which worked out quite well when translated to the cinematic medium.

I won't quibble; some will go in expecting it to be a disappointment, others will go in with reservations but hoping for the best, and still others will have already decided they are going to love the movie. Whichever category any of us falls into, we'll have to wait until March to render our final verdicts.

CelticPredator
11-18-2008, 04:55 PM
No adaptation will be a 100%....Sin City was 99.9% but it wasnt a total perfect adaptation...(its amazing, but some lines, and things were cut out ect...)

People need to understand that the book will always exist...and the movie is like a compainon peice. You can watch it, or you can leave it be. It is what it is. If its ^^^^...its ^^^^. The book? Not ^^^^, will never be ^^^^, and will always rock.

Scar
11-18-2008, 05:04 PM
No adaptation will be a 100%....Sin City was 99.9% but it wasnt a total perfect adaptation...(its amazing, but some lines, and things were cut out ect...)

People need to understand that the book will always exist...and the movie is like a compainon peice. You can watch it, or you can leave it be. It is what it is. If its ^^^^...its ^^^^. The book? Not ^^^^, will never be ^^^^, and will always rock.

Always the case, that usually the best movies have grounding in what has already been written, but are never carbon copies made to move before our eyes. It's a movie, we see it to be entertained. I'll be hoping for entertainment, not a doppelganger. Can't please everyone and as it is with every movie, some people will adore it and others will loathe it. We can just hope for the best.

Darth Caedus
11-18-2008, 05:40 PM
They can do whatever they want, but I want some Bubastis :lol:lol:lol:lol

barbelith
11-18-2008, 08:49 PM
The artists had to go, the pirate story had to go, and without those two things, the squid doesnt work.

The artists are barely in the book as it is. We're talking less than five minutes of run time. The Black Freighter stuff is clever but not exactly an essential part of the squid storyline.

barbelith
11-18-2008, 08:51 PM
...all of which had either glaring omissions or staggering alterations from the original endings, but which worked out quite well when translated to the cinematic medium.

Good point, which is why I'm keeping an open mind until March.

CelticPredator
11-18-2008, 09:22 PM
The artists are barely in the book as it is. We're talking less than five minutes of run time. The Black Freighter stuff is clever but not exactly an essential part of the squid storyline.

One page, does not equal one minute of screen time. That whole scene can run 10, or mabye 15 minutes, which takes away from the characters...which also takes away from the story....

I know it seems short...but its quite hard to take a panel and make it as long as you read it.

LOTRFan
11-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Always the case, that usually the best movies have grounding in what has already been written, but are never carbon copies made to move before our eyes. It's a movie, we see it to be entertained. I'll be hoping for entertainment, not a doppelganger. Can't please everyone and as it is with every movie, some people will adore it and others will loathe it. We can just hope for the best.

Sure, and of course it is because the novel/etc is so well loved that people have such high expectations for film; of course the literature remains, but that isn't really the point.

I am ok with the Freighter being a DVD release, but the squid could and most likely will introduce larger issues to the story. I do find myself under the impression that most will find the visuals acceptable, and not be quite so critical with the plot.

barbelith
11-18-2008, 09:40 PM
One page, does not equal one minute of screen time.

I know. You can get the artists across in five minutes of screen time. In fact you can actually tell the story without them, by incorporating their scenes into two or three lines of exposition. The idea that the squid had to go because of timing is nonsense.

barbelith
11-18-2008, 09:41 PM
I do find myself under the impression that most will find the visuals acceptable, and not be quite so critical with the plot.

Looking again at 300 and V for Vendetta...

CelticPredator
11-18-2008, 09:58 PM
There are few artist scenes. Theres the one where the woman is drawing the squid, some discussion, the explosion on the boat, and if they took out the Black Fraighter, it doesnt make much sense...so it is about time. The BF story would push the film to 3 hours, which is a no no for IMAX, and studios dont want this film to be 3 hours long.

IrishJedi
11-18-2008, 10:22 PM
Looking again at 300 and V for Vendetta...

I have a decidedly more LOTR vibe from this than those two when it comes to adaptation and changes.

And, Caedus, Bubastis will be there. :rock

The theatrical run-time of 2 hrs, 43 minutes (without "Black Freighter") doesn't bother me at all. The eventual complete cut on DVD will be 3 hrs and 30 minutes. That includes "Black Freighter", which is approx 20 minutes, plus the bookend scenes with the Bernies (maybe 5 more minutes)... so that means the Extended Cut will also have about 20-30 minutes of additional footage outside of that. I'm down. :chew

Also, is anyone as freaking excited for the hour long Under The Hood "documentary" as I am??? I anticipated that as much as anything. Can't wait.

CelticPredator
11-18-2008, 10:22 PM
Not AS excited...but definitly excited. It should be really intresting, and I was wondering how they would do it...

IrishJedi
11-18-2008, 10:29 PM
But to me it boils down to this: Alan Moore is a genius and Zack Snyder is not. Time lists Watchmen as one of the hundred greatest novels of the 20th century. Not graphic novels. Novels full stop. There's nothing to change.

I completely disagree. A literal translation of EVERYTHING in the book would be about 5 hours long, and it would be all but infeasible to pull off commercially. It was never going to happen.

And that's cool with me. The book is the book and we'll always have that no matter how the film turns out. Besides, a film can be its on work while maintaining the feel, theme, core characters and integrity of the book it's adapted from (see: LOTR).

I am more than willing to accept this movie as a separate incarnation of WATCHMEN (as long as the core themes, events and characters remain intact). It will never be the book, nor does it need to be.

And Snyder doesn't have to be a "genius" on the level of Moore to make this work. At the end of the day, if he pulls off The Comedian/Blake, Rorschach/Kovacs, Drieberg/Nite Owl, Manhattan/Osterman, Ozy/Veidt and Laurie/Silk Spectre as flesh-and-blood incarnations of the characters from the book and the overall message and point remains intact... he has succeeded in my eyes. And I have yet to see anything that indicates that he's failed there. We shall see.

wofford29
11-18-2008, 10:38 PM
But to me it boils down to this: Alan Moore is a genius and Zack Snyder is not. Time lists Watchmen as one of the hundred greatest novels of the 20th century. Not graphic novels. Novels full stop. There's nothing to change.

It was listed as #7 on EW's list. #1 of course was "The Road." They can change whatever the hell they want in this as long as they don't touch that one. Sucks it got pushed back to 09 though, it was my most anticipated movie this year.

IrishJedi
11-18-2008, 10:48 PM
Cover of the next issue of SFX Magazine:

http://www.sfx.co.uk/resources/sfx/177cov.jpg

barbelith
11-18-2008, 11:37 PM
There are few artist scenes. Theres the one where the woman is drawing the squid, some discussion, the explosion on the boat, and if they took out the Black Fraighter, it doesnt make much sense...

But it's really not. You can remove the entire Black Freighter underscore and the squid still works. All you've described is less than five minutes of screen time and again if it was truly down to timing, it's information that Veidt can rely in three lines of exposition.


A literal translation of EVERYTHING in the book would be about 5 hours long, and it would be all but infeasible to pull off commercially.

I'm not talking about a literal translation. When I said there's nothing to cut, I was referring to having the climax be a faked extradimensional squid.


Besides, a film can be its on work while maintaining the feel, theme, core characters and integrity of the book it's adapted from (see: LOTR).

I agree. My suspicion is that it will maintain the feel and characters but not the theme or integrity. The entire thing lives or dies based on whether the climax poses an effective moral checkmate. That was the keystone of the book. I don't want to end up with something like V for Vendetta where it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but is in fact giving the opposite message intended by the author!

IrishJedi
11-19-2008, 04:10 AM
I agree. My suspicion is that it will maintain the feel and characters but not the theme or integrity. The entire thing lives or dies based on whether the climax poses an effective moral checkmate. That was the keystone of the book. I don't want to end up with something like V for Vendetta where it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but is in fact giving the opposite message intended by the author!

I understand your suspicion and skepticism. I just have yet to see or hear anything that leads me to believe that a moral checkmate is not still intact. It doesn't HAVE to be a faux alien threat to still be effective and get the book's point across (especially if said subversive sub-plotline has been removed in the interest of time and focus on characters).

Entropy
11-19-2008, 08:59 AM
I understand your suspicion and skepticism. I just have yet to see or hear anything that leads me to believe that a moral checkmate is not still intact. It doesn't HAVE to be a faux alien threat to still be effective and get the book's point across (especially if said subversive sub-plotline has been removed in the interest of time and focus on characters).

We'll see. The plot is a house of cards, start fiddling around with the 'whys' and hows' too much and the whole thing falls apart and begins to lose meaning.

IrishJedi
11-19-2008, 11:00 AM
I think the "Whys" are more important than the "Hows", but that's just me.

Like we've both said... we'll see.

Scar
11-19-2008, 02:24 PM
I understand your suspicion and skepticism. I just have yet to see or hear anything that leads me to believe that a moral checkmate is not still intact. It doesn't HAVE to be a faux alien threat to still be effective and get the book's point across (especially if said subversive sub-plotline has been removed in the interest of time and focus on characters).

My sentiments EXACTLY, which is why I am still optimistic to say the least.

Entropy
11-19-2008, 02:36 PM
The squid isn't absolutely necessary for the story to work, and I can see why it would be deemed too out there or unbelievable, it is by design a shocking, jarring plot twist, but what do you replace it with is the question. Seems that the "enemy" the world rallies against are the costumed heroes themselves, specifically Dr. M. And I'm ok with the "we don't need gods to rule over us" theme, which reminds me of Kingdom Come and Superman becoming an enemy of the people trying to tear down the UN, but if they go in that direction, isn't that negated by the Keene Act? My big question is if they ditch the squid and scientist stuff, Comedian is then killed because he found out about Veidt's plan to frame Manhattan? meh. Hopefully, it's more interesting than that.

barbelith
11-19-2008, 06:12 PM
It doesn't HAVE to be a faux alien threat to still be effective and get the book's point across (especially if said subversive sub-plotline has been removed in the interest of time and focus on characters).

I agree. But framing Dr Manhattan doesn't actually work on any level to achieve the same ends. Oh well.

barbelith
11-19-2008, 06:14 PM
but if they go in that direction, isn't that negated by the Keene Act?

Yes. And even more to the point, Veidt doesn't need to frame anyone. He can just do it himself and people will still band together in fear of super heroes. It just doesn't add up. To say nothing of how the Comedian would be able to discover the plan...

I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised in March. We're obviously missing a key bit of plot information here. Maybe it all works in the film.

Entropy
11-19-2008, 06:59 PM
Yes. And even more to the point, Veidt doesn't need to frame anyone. He can just do it himself and people will still band together in fear of super heroes. It just doesn't add up. To say nothing of how the Comedian would be able to discover the plan...

I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised in March. We're obviously missing a key bit of plot information here. Maybe it all works in the film.

Yes, there's some plot bit which is the card Synder and co. have up their sleeve. Whether that card is an Ace or not remains to be seen. Not that there won't be some other surprises, but the new ending is the big reveal. I wonder if we'll see it coming akin to mentioning the scientists/artists, island, etc. I hope Comedian's breakdown scene with Moloch isn't watered down. But what else would cause that reaction, especially if Veidt's plan centers around using or framing Dr. M??

IrishJedi
11-19-2008, 08:13 PM
I agree. But framing Dr Manhattan doesn't actually work on any level to achieve the same ends. Oh well.

I have to admit, this supposed framing of Dr. Manhattan angle has had me scratching my head as well. We'll just have to see how it all comes together in March... but that is indeed a notion I can't get my head around either.

Scar
11-21-2008, 05:31 AM
Yes. And even more to the point, Veidt doesn't need to frame anyone. He can just do it himself and people will still band together in fear of super heroes. It just doesn't add up. To say nothing of how the Comedian would be able to discover the plan...

I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised in March. We're obviously missing a key bit of plot information here. Maybe it all works in the film.

True, one thing about we humans is that we're always sooooooo ready to believe the absolute worst about someone/something, whereas it takes a lot of convincing to show something to be good or positive. If Veidt did it himself, it would have been an incredibly altruistic act that I think would be in line with his character and his "all for the greater good" way of thinking. My only speculation would be that with Dr. M people don't really have someone they ostensibly have the hope of fighting and winning against. Maybe centralizing that seemingly insurmountable threat in one man is what makes the plan work as directing attention to a tangible third party... but would Dr. M really be cool with Veidt's plan of becoming the bad guy in the eyes of the entire world? I'm not entirely sure he would rally behind that cause convincingly and kill Rorschach to keep the secret that he's not really this ^^^^^^^ who murdered millions on a whim. Granted, Manhattan is the king of cold logic and rationality, but would he really come back to the world only to be branded the bad guy? There are definitely some plot points we're missing here. Can't wait to see how it all works out.

IrishJedi
11-21-2008, 08:19 AM
Already finding visual easter eggs from the trailers alone.

Check out the top-right of this image... slightly subtle Smiley Face in the reflection of the building lights:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7804/snapshot20081120222916cs9.jpg

The Mike
11-21-2008, 03:05 PM
The thing I've always read into with Dr. Manhattan is that he feels separated from standard human society. Almost a God amongst Men. His attitude definitely portrays that as well. So in framing Dr. Manhattan one could presume that its the fear that the Supers feel above society and that they'd try to enslave and control standard humans. He'd be the perfect one to frame in that ideal because Manhattan's demeanor shows the most separations and elitist thinking....

barbelith
11-23-2008, 12:33 PM
So in framing Dr. Manhattan one could presume that its the fear that the Supers feel above society and that they'd try to enslave and control standard humans. He'd be the perfect one to frame in that ideal because Manhattan's demeanor shows the most separations and elitist thinking....

Except the humans in Watchmen already feel this way and there was even a federal law passed in response to those fears, so it doesn't serve the same purpose as the squid re: a shock action that unites the world.

Scar
11-23-2008, 09:28 PM
The thing I've always read into with Dr. Manhattan is that he feels separated from standard human society. Almost a God amongst Men. His attitude definitely portrays that as well. So in framing Dr. Manhattan one could presume that its the fear that the Supers feel above society and that they'd try to enslave and control standard humans. He'd be the perfect one to frame in that ideal because Manhattan's demeanor shows the most separations and elitist thinking....

Exactly. Manhattan is sanctioned by the government, has advanced human techology by leaps and bounds, and has the powers of a god. It only makes to envy someone with that much power, let alone fear.

The Mike
11-23-2008, 10:57 PM
Except the humans in Watchmen already feel this way and there was even a federal law passed in response to those fears, so it doesn't serve the same purpose as the squid re: a shock action that unites the world.


Exactly. Manhattan is sanctioned by the government, has advanced human techology by leaps and bounds, and has the powers of a god. It only makes to envy someone with that much power, let alone fear.

Scar kind of completed the thought I didn't. The fact that Dr. Manhatten was so closely governmentally tied still would envoke that kind of fear despite the law, etc. Also I will admit Barbelith that it still doesn't envoke the same response as the squid.

IrishJedi
11-24-2008, 12:44 AM
Not so sure. We Irish are impervious to psychoanalysis and psychological torture. Thus, if I saw a huge ****** squid sitting in the middle of Manhattan I think I might laugh.

:monkey3

Scar
11-24-2008, 10:53 AM
Not so sure. We Irish are impervious to psychoanalysis and psychological torture. Thus, if I saw a huge ****** squid sitting in the middle of Manhattan I think I might laugh.

:monkey3

I'd say I'd be the guy laughing to himself while taking cell phone pictures to send to friends with the squid juxtaposed alongside a vag, but if I were in that close of proximity to the squid, odds are I wouldn't be alive to be having a laugh.:lol

barbelith
11-24-2008, 02:04 PM
Scar kind of completed the thought I didn't. The fact that Dr. Manhatten was so closely governmentally tied still would envoke that kind of fear despite the law, etc.

But the heroes are already feared and outlawed. So it still doesn't make any sense. And on top of that Manhattan's role as a US military weapon means the rest of the world has no reason whatsoever to unite and end the Cold War should he blow up a city. He already blows things up around the world.

This is why I think there's a plot element we don't know about yet. Otherwise it just doesn't add up. I'm going to be very frustrated if Snyder's idea of "getting" Watchmen = making it look like Dave Gibbons.

Scar
11-24-2008, 04:34 PM
But the heroes are already feared and outlawed. So it still doesn't make any sense. And on top of that Manhattan's role as a US military weapon means the rest of the world has no reason whatsoever to unite and end the Cold War should he blow up a city. He already blows things up around the world.

This is why I think there's a plot element we don't know about yet. Otherwise it just doesn't add up. I'm going to be very frustrated if Snyder's idea of "getting" Watchmen = making it look like Dave Gibbons.

I agree, there has to be a great deal that we're not aware of. Even so, though, Dr. M left the planet as well as his allegiances to anyone and everyone on it with the exception of Laurie. While it could make people turn to the U.S. and issue a resounding, "WUDJUDO?!?! ," I'm willing to assume their anxieties would be directed to the god who they think is pulling the strings and putting millions to the axe. I see what you mean in that since he was a sanctioned representative of the U.S. government it would discredit the U.S. and seemingly dilute the uniting factor, but whether or not anyone would still tie he and his fault inextricably to the U.S. in light of the fact that he "attacks" NYC with such a catastrophic effect, I'm not entirely convinced. We are going to keep saying, "This ^^^^ just doesn't make sense" until we finally see the movie. We're going to have to wait until March to see definitively how well the alterations in plot work compared to the original story.

IrishJedi
11-26-2008, 12:05 AM
Silly and technically off-topic, but fun... Here is the custom WATCHMEN iPhone skin I had designed. It actually looks cooler than the pics suggest. Must be the flash...

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5435/iphone01yn2.th.jpg (http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iphone01yn2.jpg)

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/6002/iphone02pw1.th.jpg (http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iphone02pw1.jpg)

I made and ordered it on uniqueskins.com

Entropy
11-26-2008, 12:32 AM
That looks super cool, Irish. :rock

but the bottom edges of the smile look a bit odd.

IrishJedi
11-26-2008, 12:38 AM
Thanks! The edges look weird in the pic because there are no edges. They are cut there so it will fit over the iPhone neatly and without wrinkles. Because the phone is black behind it I guess it gives the impression that those corners are part of the design... but they're not.

Entropy
11-26-2008, 12:49 AM
Thanks! The edges look weird in the pic because there are no edges. They are cut there so it will fit over the iPhone neatly and without wrinkles. Because the phone is black behind it I guess it gives the impression that those corners are part of the design... but they're not.

Ah, I see now. Not much you could do about that.

Looks groovy.

IrishJedi
11-28-2008, 09:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/LordRuthven69/Watchmen/GroundFloor.jpg

:rock :rock :rock :rock

CelticPredator
11-28-2008, 10:58 PM
I did that same thing in this music video thing I made. Even though they wont, I wish they'd do that for the movie.

scubasteve
11-29-2008, 11:47 AM
Watching the Watchmen FINALLY arrived today!

Sketch -

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/1989/1129081242hq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

IrishJedi
11-29-2008, 02:23 PM
I got the same sketch. :rock

scubasteve
11-29-2008, 02:24 PM
I luuuvvv it. Makes me feel warm and cuddly inside :angelsmil :angelsmil :angelsmil

Time to frame my cards! They are great, too

tomandshell
12-03-2008, 12:20 PM
Comments on the running time--not yet approved, but getting shorter:


"We're getting really close," producer Deborah Snyder said in a telephone interview on Nov. 18. "We're at two hours and 35 minutes."

Director Zack Snyder added: "The movie's pretty long ... compared to 300, which was an hour and 58 minutes. The director's cut [of Watchmen] is about three hours and 10 minutes long. It has even more than the theatrical version as far as the detail that gets even closer to the graphic novel."

I would be perfectly happy to sit in the theater for 3 hours and 10 minutes.

plasmid303
12-03-2008, 12:39 PM
Snyder should really keep his mouth shut about the original running time or any more cuts to the current movie length. He's doing nothing but inviting ire and vitriol from fans who think a shorter Watchmen film couldn't possibly encompass the entire story.

I too, would be perfectly A-okay about watching a 3-hour Watchmen flick, but I doubt the uninitiated audiences feel the same way.

darthviper107
12-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Plus movie theaters hate long movies since they can't show them as much.

But hey, at least we'll know there will be a significant dvd Director's Cut release.

IrishJedi
12-03-2008, 01:48 PM
I saw the report about the 8 minute shorter runtime earlier and was too bummed to even link to. :(