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View Full Version : The next Batman movie approach.



uscmhicks
09-01-2008, 01:03 AM
I have been recentley thinking about both of Nolans batman movies and have been wondering what you guys thought about this.

Basically I preferred the overall story of Batman Begins but preferred the action and awesomeness of the dark knight.

Batman begins had much more emotion and focused on Batman himself alot more. Whilst the Dark knight seemed to focus on Gotham and alot of other characters as well as batman. I felt he didn't get enough build up.
I know we had already had his story in begins but I still felt there could of been a little more emotion there.

I cared more of Commissioner Gordon's children and wife in there 5 minute scene towards the end more than I did Batman through the whole movie.
Overall they were both amazing movies anyway but my question is ...

Which approach would you rather have the next batman movie take ?.
More towards the Begins style or more towards the Dark Knight style ?.

I would have to choose Begins.

uscmhicks
09-01-2008, 01:04 AM
oh.. and how the hell do you add a poll ? :lol

Adoptedscot
09-01-2008, 01:48 AM
:lol
You do it when you strart and add the opning post mate.
Under the box you usually write in the a box to check saying add a poll or something like that and you need to check it, and add how many options you want in the poll, up to 10.
Then it will post your initial thread post and you will need to enter the poll options.
Bob's your uncle...
:duff
x :peace

Devil_666
09-01-2008, 02:22 AM
TDK for me. Realistically.. these movies are made for fans of the material. From the diehard to just casual fans who are familiar with the characters, story etc. I highly doubt that the majority of people watching these films are completely oblivious and have never heard of anything regarding these films. All of these films try to add in origin plot points (in that rare case of someone watching NOT knowing how these characters came about) but some are more ingenius at pulling that off than others. BB had the best approach, Iron Man copied that approach but overall the new Hulk movie had the best approach.

The new Hulk movie essentially put the origin within the opening credits. So the actual movie didn't really deal with it too much. That was great since the majority of people who saw it:

1. Already knew how Banner became Hulk and
2. imo the majority of people who watched THIS Hulk watched the Ang Lee version which exhaustingly covered an origin story for Banner.

Batman Begins had a new approach to Comic Book movie origin plots: it showed not only how Bruce Wayne became Batman (typical) but it also showed why he was afraid of Bats. How his costume came about. How his weapons and vehicle came about. How he met Gordon. How he was trained. How he actually became Batman, not just a jump from orphan to full fledged Dark Knight.

imo Iron Man copied this approach.. showing how the actuall Iron Man suit evolved out of neccessity + all the failures inbetween. If not for BB imo Iron Man would've been a completely different film.

But with all that said, that was the FIRST BB. Notice the title change? TDK wasn't called "Batman Begins 2: The Dark Knight". The first film was about Batman's beginning and by the end of the film he was pretty much the normal Batman we've all come to know. In the second film, Batman only evolves in 2 ways: Gadgets and showing the first signs of the investigative skills he's known for.

It's a natural progression. Batman Begins WAS about Batman. The focus was on him. imo that's why the Scarecrow and Ra's were chosen as the villains: to NOT overshadow Batman. Imagine if in BB the villain was Heath Ledger as the Joker.


imo the next film will follow suit with TDK:
No main villain origin story. Whoever the villain is they'll already be established as such.

More scenes showing Batman's investigative skills.

More focus on the main villain.

More focus on Bruce Wayne and the struggles of having a duel indentity i.e. keeping up appearances.


imo starting with TDK, Batman will never be the main focus of any future films from Nolan like in BB. The character has already been established. Now the focus will be on the rogue gallery, and how they affect Gotham and it's citizens. How Batman is suppose to help fight crime while he himself is viewed as a criminal/murderer. Just my opinion.

TwelveMonkeys
09-01-2008, 05:57 AM
I can't help but think a third installment will be more like BB, and focus more on Wayne/Batman. The ending of TDK has set up easily his biggest challenge yet (he has to carry on as Batman, but now Gotham wants his blood), so his character is going to need alot of attention. I'd say that would have to be the focus of the film, how he conquers that and maybe even gets Gotham back on his side. If you had another huge villain (Joker will be hard to top anyway) I don't think it would leave enough room. At least I'd expect that kind of approach from Nolan.

Also I think its pretty safe to assume that if there is another it will most likely be the last one, from Nolan and Bale anyway, so I could see them bringing it to a close, which would therefore need some sort of character resolution for Bruce Wayne.

Batman5
09-01-2008, 06:30 AM
Bring in Robin of course.

;)
Seriously though I agree with TwelveMonkeys that the third installment will be like BB with a focus on Batman and Wayne but I hope that it will still have the tense moments like TDK. With TDK you had the ferry, Harvey Two Face, Gordon's family and to the possible reveal of Bats to be Wayne. Moments like these need to be in the third movie. Villain wise - I'm not sure who I would like to see. Personally I would have liked to see Two-Face again for a brief moment (like Scarecrow) but that can't be done now - maybe they can do something with Joker but not focus to much on him? Other villains that I would like to see possibly is Mr. Freeze. He is such a tragic character and if you get the right actor like a Patrick Stewart he can be a real threat and not the B&R crap fest.
One thing I hope is that this moive does not fall into the Spider-Man 3 trend where the first movie was great, the second movie was fantastic and the third is well forgetable. I rememeber people saying that Raimi and Tobey wouldn't let Spidey 3 be bad, just as people are saying the same of Nolan and Bale. I hope history is not repeated with the Batman franchise as this is not what Batman needs. Batman and Batman Returns was great but Batman Forever brought in the camp. I don't want to see this trend again.

Les Walker
09-01-2008, 06:53 AM
Bring in Robin of course.

;)
Seriously though I agree with TwelveMonkeys that the third installment will be like BB with a focus on Batman and Wayne but I hope that it will still have the tense moments like TDK. With TDK you had the ferry, Harvey Two Face, Gordon's family and to the possible reveal of Bats to be Wayne. Moments like these need to be in the third movie. Villain wise - I'm not sure who I would like to see. Personally I would have liked to see Two-Face again for a brief moment (like Scarecrow) but that can't be done now - maybe they can do something with Joker but not focus to much on him? Other villains that I would like to see possibly is Mr. Freeze. He is such a tragic character and if you get the right actor like a Patrick Stewart he can be a real threat and not the B&R crap fest.
One thing I hope is that this moive does not fall into the Spider-Man 3 trend where the first movie was great, the second movie was fantastic and the third is well forgetable. I rememeber people saying that Raimi and Tobey wouldn't let Spidey 3 be bad, just as people are saying the same of Nolan and Bale. I hope history is not repeated with the Batman franchise as this is not what Batman needs. Batman and Batman Returns was great but Batman Forever brought in the camp. I don't want to see this trend again.

I agree with that. I hope they don't drop the ball on 3.
So much potential if handled correctly.

Moonloop
09-01-2008, 08:20 AM
I would like the story to be more Begins related. Batman Begins was 10 times better than the Dark Knight. The Dark Knight was a fantastic movie and one of the greatest ever. But BB had a much much better story and the film (cinematography, the feel) was just executed a lot better. I think a lot of people overlook BB and just say, "OH DARK KNIGHT IS THE BEST EVER, HEATH IS THE ^^^^ AND OMG TWO FACE AND THE STORY". People need to go back and watch BB again, it is hard to describe what it is but that film is a real masterpiece and should be getting more credit than it has been getting.

Blackhole
09-01-2008, 08:39 AM
Christian Bale said if they ever bring in Robin, he's leaving...

RJMacReady16
09-01-2008, 08:43 AM
I would like the story to be more Begins related. Batman Begins was 10 times better than the Dark Knight. The Dark Knight was a fantastic movie and one of the greatest ever. But BB had a much much better story and the film (cinematography, the feel) was just executed a lot better. I think a lot of people overlook BB and just say, "OH DARK KNIGHT IS THE BEST EVER, HEATH IS THE ^^^^ AND OMG TWO FACE AND THE STORY". People need to go back and watch BB again, it is hard to describe what it is but that film is a real masterpiece and should be getting more credit than it has been getting.

I can't 100% agree with that---but I get where you're coming from. I think Nolan perfected a lot of what he was going for in BB with TDK.

Regardless, in my opinion Nolan managed to make the two greatest superhero films of all time:

TDK
and a very close second, BB.

And yes, Begins sometimes seems sorely underrated in this TDK mania.

cerealkeller
09-01-2008, 09:29 AM
I would like a mix of the two. In TDK, Harvey Dent was Batman's story, in the way that Dent was Bruces' way out. Dent also represented what Bruce wanted when he said he wanted to inspire people, a guy who would take back the city without wearing a mask.

What I want out of the 3rd movie (please Nolan?) is for the main villain to be the Riddler. How I see it happening is the Riddler knows who Batman is and is sending riddles to Gordon and the police to figure it out. They would be traps set out to expose Bruce Wayne for who he is, causing Bruce to have to outsmart him and do detective work, and Gordon trying to play both sides: he's "trying" to figure out the riddles to the police, but secretly working with Batman to keep the riddles from truly exposing who Batman is.

I think then the main villain who supplied the Riddler with Batman's true identity could turn out to be Ras Al Ghul. He wouldn't turn up until the last part of the movie but I would personally love to see him come back.

They could end it like Hush, where the Riddler knows Batman's identity, but Batman plays him with knowing the greatest riddle of all so why would he want to share it with everyone?

I don't know, I would also like to see Two Face brought back in some way. These are just ideas I would like to see.

freestylex06x
09-01-2008, 09:37 AM
i couldn't believe dent was killed off, not in a negative to the movie way but he would of been an easy fit for the 3rd movie. for me he was the last "realistic" villain besides the riddler maybe. the riddler makes me worried because i can easily see a POTC Depp and i dont want that. I would prefer the begins style better. There was a fair amount of action there too except for the blurry action scenes. i could easily see a scene in Batman 3 which was batman on the brink of death from getting shot at from the police.

Moonloop
09-01-2008, 09:40 AM
I really don't want to see repeat villains in the 3rd one. I think its fine that Dent is dead and Two-Face was short lived.

RJMacReady16
09-01-2008, 09:49 AM
Yeah I think they covered all of their bases with Two-Face---and there ain't much left there to explore.

The next one should be gritty as hell, and bring it back to Bruce Wayne/Batman.

Superhero franchises tend to fail when the movie becomes more about the villains, and they teetered the line perfectly with TDK. Any more though---and they would've been in trouble.

The Mike
09-01-2008, 09:56 AM
imo the next film will follow suit with TDK:
No main villain origin story. Whoever the villain is they'll already be established as such.

More scenes showing Batman's investigative skills.

More focus on the main villain.

More focus on Bruce Wayne and the struggles of having a duel indentity i.e. keeping up appearances.


imo starting with TDK, Batman will never be the main focus of any future films from Nolan like in BB. The character has already been established. Now the focus will be on the rogue gallery, and how they affect Gotham and it's citizens. How Batman is suppose to help fight crime while he himself is viewed as a criminal/murderer. Just my opinion.

I agreed with this entire post but quoted this part especially because this is how I think Nolan is seriously looking at this. Batman becomes a supporting player to the villain still important but still background until the climax.


Also I think its pretty safe to assume that if there is another it will most likely be the last one, from Nolan and Bale anyway, so I could see them bringing it to a close, which would therefore need some sort of character resolution for Bruce Wayne.

Bale has said that he would do Batman films until asked to leave, that he loved the character and wouldn't care if he finished out career with Batman films. Nolan will probably leave unless he has another story to tell. The Rogue gallery is rich with options but he is trying to continue the original three part play that Goyer originally set up. The thing is Goyer set up Two-Face to be the main villain of the third and Nolan rewrote that completely so essentially Goyer would have to supplement the villain to get the story across again with the Nolan brothers. It actually might extend the story to tell because of the breaking of the original mold.


I rememeber people saying that Raimi and Tobey wouldn't let Spidey 3 be bad, just as people are saying the same of Nolan and Bale. I hope history is not repeated with the Batman franchise as this is not what Batman needs. Batman and Batman Returns was great but Batman Forever brought in the camp. I don't want to see this trend again.

Tobey wasn't interesting in playing Peter Parker or Spider-Man in 3 and it was obvious. Raimi had his original vision destroyed by Avi Arad and pressures from the Sony Studios. While the story was weak to begin with, the push was so hard to add Venom that you have to give Raimi credit for really trying to tie it all together. If you remove the Symbiote line from Spider-Man 3 it wasn't that bad. The pressure to add Venom and that line is one of the reasons why Raimi said he would direct Spider-Man 4 but doesn't want anything to do with writing it. If they can keep the pressures from the outside which will be clammering for Joker 2 or just a TDK rewrap and push and really tell the story that they want to I have no fear.


I don't know, I would also like to see Two Face brought back in some way. These are just ideas I would like to see.

Its possible but Two-Face if brought back I think would be a Scarecrow type feel because I seriously doubt he'll be the main villain.


I really don't want to see repeat villains in the 3rd one. I think its fine that Dent is dead and Two-Face was short lived.

I don't mind if Two-Face is in it but in reality the best villain will be the one who can play into the "Redemption" theme that Batman 3 will most likely have. He/She needs to be connected to the actual villain of both films The Mob and I have a feeling that he/she will have to be able to attack both Wayne and Batman. Ras focused on Bruce as Batman was still being created. The Joker focused on Batman as Wayne was a non-interest. I think whomever the next villain will be will have to tie up the idea of duality more than either of the two. This is probably why Two-Face was the original 3rd Villain because he encompasses the idea of Duality but since that card was burned should be interesting to see what Rogue could now take that place.

Voorhees27
09-01-2008, 09:56 AM
Christian Bale said if they ever bring in Robin, he's leaving...

and as would I.

The Mike
09-01-2008, 09:58 AM
Age wise Robin wouldn't work even now. Bruce is still much too young to make ^^^^ Grayson work.

One more thing, There was a posting by Goyer saying that WB wants to focus on the crossovers like Marvel is doing with their upcoming films and Green Arrow: Escape from Supermax is doing this amongst villains....could the next villain be a character other than a strict Batman Rogue?

aussieinnyc
09-01-2008, 02:29 PM
The one major thing I didn't like about TDK was Batman reassuming the mantle of feared and hated outlaw. While it works within the context of the story, I inwardly groaned because of what it meant for part three. The good man/hero, misunderstood and falsely accused as a plot device has been used so often and in so many movie types and genres I am just not interested in seeing yet another version of a redemption story, with all the predictable character angst it entails.

Nocturne
09-01-2008, 02:40 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Bane done properly next time round. The Jokers wiping out of the mob would've left a power vacuum within the city which would've fitted in with Bane's early MO.

I am looking forward to seeing how they work with TDK's ending I did come out of the cinema fulfilled even on the second viewing.Just wish their was an IMAX near me

Devil_666
09-01-2008, 02:46 PM
One more thing, There was a posting by Goyer saying that WB wants to focus on the crossovers like Marvel is doing with their upcoming films and Green Arrow: Escape from Supermax is doing this amongst villains....could the next villain be a character other than a strict Batman Rogue?

That would be hard to market imo. I don't read comics but I think it's safe to say you can experiment and take more risks with that media form than you can with big budget Hollywood films. I think it would be hard to sell a film involving an iconic character with a familiar set of villains and then to switch it up and throw in a crossover villain. Although personally I like the idea. I've always felt that Lex Luther would make a better Batman villain than Supes villain.

Old Grandpa
09-01-2008, 04:22 PM
With the death of Miss Dawes, there is a female void that has to be filled. That is why I have a feeling that Catwoman will be in Bats 3. Selina Kyle/Catwoman has been a love interest in the Batman comics for years. Also there was that comment by Lucius Fox, when asked if the new suit would fend off dogs, Lucius added, "and cats". Granted, Catwoman is not as menacing a foe as the Joker, but who is? Riddler? Nolan has already stated he would never consider Pengin as a villian. There's only one Batman villian that's in a league with Joker, and that would be Ra's Al Ghul. They could bring in Talia (Ra's Al Ghul's daughter) as the love interest. With his famous Lazarus Pits, Ra's is imortal which could cover his rise from the grave, although we never did see his dead body in BB. Granted this is all speculation, but it is fun.

Darklord Dave
09-01-2008, 05:14 PM
What was a secondary to BB but central to TDK was Gotham itself as a character and ultimately the protagonist. It is Gotham that Ra's sets out to destroy and it is all of Gotham that the Joker wants to throw into chaos. The beginning of TDK shows Gotham starting to come into the light - street crime is down thanks to Batman and organized crime is in the spotlight thanks to Dent.

But by the end of TDK Batman is a villain and Dent is dead. It's 1 step forward and 2 steps back. And if the escalation continues (how do you escalate from Joker?) then it's going to have to be some serious bad guy.

I know the script says that Two-face is dead, but he is perfect to be the villain for 3. Where once Dent wanted to bring Gotham into the light, now he would want to drive it into the dark - he knows the crime lords intimately and could organize them into something very formidable. Other rogues could make appearances in slightly reimagined forms, Riddler and Penguin would be good crime lieutenants, Killer Croc and Bane as muscle, etc. Selina could come in as a love interest, but not the main villain.

I'm not advocating a villian convention like Batman & Robin, but something well thought out with some villains as secondary characters could work. How do you up the stakes from the Joker?

EVILFACE
09-01-2008, 05:34 PM
Nolan's group have given us 2 fantastic movies, I don't see why they would let us down in the third.

freestylex06x
09-01-2008, 06:23 PM
we dont know what they were initially planning for the third one but im pretty sure it included the joker again. i wished they showed even more of his sadistic side by using more of the "the killing joke" or "no man's land" sadistic stuff. i really wanted to see the scenes in the killing joke where batman is attempting to help the joker recover from his madness in a third movie but now that hope is gone. im all for the selina kyle intro but i would not want to see a second masked character in a nolan movie, but then again if the third movie is the last then it would be dumb just to have her as a regular love interest without a mask. I would say the best candidate seems like the riddler to tell you the truth. Another al ghul related plot seems redundant and a bane seems too comic like for this batman representation. This batman seems more about a moral and mental struggle with the villain. Bane was pretty smart in Knightfall but he represents physical struggle.

Devil_666
09-01-2008, 06:38 PM
The biggest thing that surprised me about TDK was the fact that Two Face was in it. From everything I had read going into it, I was under the impression that only Harvey Dent would be in TDK.. and that his accident would happen almost at the end of the film and the Two Face reveal would be the last scene setting up Two Face as the villain for the 3rd film. So I was shocked to see an entire story arch for him in TDK. Bane as a roided up ex-Pro Wrestler or Killer Croc as a disfigured, circus freak could both work in Nolan's realistic vision of Batman imo.

Murderofcrows71
09-01-2008, 07:30 PM
I think with a few strategically placed computer rips of old footage of Heath from TDK. They could have the Joker in the 3rd film, in a cell in Arkham. Possibly a way of bringing in a Harley Quinn type, ex psychologist becomes Joker fanatic, orchestrating the Joker's brand of chaos wjile he's locked up. You would still need a main baddie for the film though, and while I like Two Face coming back there are so many that could be used.
Dr. Hugo Strange
Killer Moth
Killer Croc
Deadshot
Hush
Mad Hatter
Ventriloquist
etc.
but I think the best story line would be the same one used in the John Byrne book the Untold Legend of the Batman from the early 80's, where Batman finds out his parents murder was actually a hit by mobster Lew Moxon.
Taken from Wikipedia:
Sometime prior to their murder, Dr. Thomas Wayne and his wife attend a costume party - to which Dr. Wayne wears a bat-like costume. Wayne is taken from the party, by gun-point, to meet racketeer and bank robber Lew Moxon. Moxon orders Dr. Wayne to remove a bullet from his shoulder. Wayne carries out the operation before overpowering Moxon and his men.

Moxon is arrested and sentenced to 10 years for armed robbery. As he is taken away he swears revenge on Thomas Wayne. Ten years later, a free Moxon informs Thomas Wayne that he will get someone else to extract that revenge (that someone being Joe Chill). It is suggested that Chill was told to leave young Bruce alive so as to provide an alibi for Moxon.

Years later Batman learns of Moxon's involvement in the murder of his parents, by which time Moxon is operating a Billboard blimp business. Batman's first attempt to convict Moxon for the murder of his parents fails, as Moxon is now suffering from amnesia and is able to pass a lie detector test. Batman determines that Moxon's blimp business must be a cover for illegal activities and continues to trail the gangster. Eventually, after uncovering Moxon's illegal activities, Batman confronts the criminal while wearing his father's costume (his own had been ripped during an earlier fight). On seeing Dr. Wayne's costume Moxon suddenly remembers what he had done. Thinking Batman was actually Thomas Wayne's ghost, Moxon panics and runs out into the street, where he is hit by a truck and killed.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/UntoldLegend1.jpg

Devil_666
09-01-2008, 09:05 PM
No offensive but that story would be pretty lame for a Nolan/Bale Batman movie.

freestylex06x
09-01-2008, 09:36 PM
it maybe would have worked in the first movie but the situation is too complex right now in gotham for wayne to focus on his personal problems

Devil_666
09-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Agreed. For better or worse, people expect a well known villain as the main protaganist now. A generic mobster will not suffice.

Ultimate Weapon
09-01-2008, 10:25 PM
I think it's entirely possible for Dent to return in a third film. I was not under the specific impression on my first viewing that Dent died once he fell out of the building ... and he doesn't really have to.

The city knows Dent is dead. They don't know about Two Face or that he even existed. If Two Face is alive he could have been sent to Arkham with his records sealed as to his true identity and it would further the city cover up of his existence since he would be in some type of solitary/max security confinement.

So I think there is a way to bring Dent back for a third film - not saying it's the perfect idea, but it could be done.

freestylex06x
09-01-2008, 10:40 PM
yeah i thought so too but i think i read an article a couple weeks ago confirming that dent was dead and not coming back. i really thought dent would have been good enough to introduce only and make the lead villain in 3. oh well, as long as spiderman 3 happens again and please all you fanboys, that movie was not good just average and i dont care if its not the director's fault.

Old Grandpa
09-01-2008, 11:56 PM
I think it's entirely possible for Dent to return in a third film. I was not under the specific impression on my first viewing that Dent died once he fell out of the building ... and he doesn't really have to.

The city knows Dent is dead. They don't know about Two Face or that he even existed. If Two Face is alive he could have been sent to Arkham with his records sealed as to his true identity and it would further the city cover up of his existence since he would be in some type of solitary/max security confinement.

So I think there is a way to bring Dent back for a third film - not saying it's the perfect idea, but it could be done.

I read someplace that the third movie was going to start with the trial of Joker. That doesn't look possible now. I don't think even the best CG artist could create a beliveable Joker. The first time I saw TDK I was the only one in the group that thought Two Face died. So you could be right.

automaton
09-02-2008, 01:22 AM
face it people... Dent's stroy is told... the Joker's story is told... Chris Nowlan, if he decides to make a third, is not going to explore completed story arcs... this isn't Prison Break. Nowlan is a forward thinking filmmaker that will continue to leave his mark pushing the envelope, not relicking it.

the_killing_joke
09-02-2008, 01:55 AM
I find the one thing about TDK is that it makes a continuation of the story very difficult. Nolan has apparently killed Two Face off. (Although they brought Gordon back from the "dead".) If they have then I think they have made a mistake. Arron Eckhart was great and the look was brilliant I thought. The Joker must surely be off limits now? Heath Ledger owned the part in TDK and I wonder if recasting would almost automatically cause criticisms and unfavourable comparisions being made between Ledger and the new actor in the role. Ledger's death was a tragic thing and I would be very disappointed if Nolan recast him. Maybe it is best to leave the Joker for the vision of the next director and the next run of films.

The way forward, I think, would be to have Black Mask introduced as the next big crime lord. He is a nasty enough piece of work. Cameos could be a good way to include more extreme bad guys. The idea of The Penguin being a British arms dealer was good. Why not a cameo? Killer Croc as an enforcer? Firefly as an arsonist working for the mob?

I am not too worried about Batman redeeming himself in the public eye as it adds to his heroic nature. The public hate him and view him as a homicidal vigilante but he still sets out to do right. It strengthens the relationship between he and Gordon and it makes him a figure of fear again. (Word in Gotham now is that he WILL take lives in his quest for justice. I thought it was a really clever move on the team's part to re-inforce Batman in this manner.)

Someone mentioned more use of Batman's detective skills being made. I quite agree. With this in mind, perhaps a serial killer type thriller would be good. Mr Zsasz??

I am sure whatever they decide it will be good. I just hope WB don't pressure on them to make a piece of crap just to try and beat box office records.

Maybe Nolan will decline the offer to make a third?? Who knows?

Nocturne
09-02-2008, 09:17 AM
I wouldn't think Nolan would bow to pressure to make a third one for the sake of it. Look what happened to Joel Schumachers reputation after Batman and Robin.

Maybe the movie doesn't need a major villain as a main driving force. Batman's now seen as a villain in the eyes of the law and citizens. Why not use something along the lines of the Anti-Bat task force seen in Dark Knight Returns. TDK has shown that he's easily able to take down the Special Forces team, so why not something specifically designed to hunt the Dark Knight.
This could give Gary Oldman's fantastic Gordon more screen time as well with his conflict of interests between knowing he's innocent and to his duty.

Would be good to see some more development given to both Gordon, Alfred and if they can Lucius. Still no guarantee that he quit as Bruce kept his word and the machine destroyed itself

Devil_666
09-02-2008, 09:31 AM
Man.. TDK is already over $500 million. If I was Chris Nolan I'd quit while I was ahead. Anyone honestly think a 3rd film could top let alone come near the financial AND critical success of TDK!?

Nocturne
09-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Is great news, although what annoyed me is here in the UK it's been outgrossed by Mamma Mia! it's like a bad joke. Just shows the majority of people in the UK have no taste in films or music!

Nuka Cola Kidd
09-02-2008, 11:36 AM
Man.. TDK is already over $500 million. If I was Chris Nolan I'd quit while I was ahead. Anyone honestly think a 3rd film could top let alone come near the financial AND critical success of TDK!?

No it will never, because the only reason TDK did so well was because of ledgers DEATH...if he hadnt of died then it prolly would of done about as good as Batman Begins..I mean you had 90% of girls going to see it just because he died. Next time a girl goes "omg TDK was so amazing. Ledger did so amazing." Ask them how they liked BB. 10 bucks they never saw it, and if they did it was after TDK

Nocturne
09-02-2008, 12:21 PM
No it will never, because the only reason TDK did so well was because of ledgers DEATH...if he hadnt of died then it prolly would of done about as good as Batman Begins..I mean you had 90% of girls going to see it just because he died. Next time a girl goes "omg TDK was so amazing. Ledger did so amazing." Ask them how they liked BB. 10 bucks they never saw it, and if they did it was after TDK

Must admit there has been a suprising amount of female love for TDK but all of it is aimed at the Joker. It's true in a sad way nothing does wonders for your career like dieing especially if it's dieing young. At least it was a performance worthy of the adulation though.

Aerosmith
09-02-2008, 01:34 PM
Someone mentioned more use of Batman's detective skills being made. I quite agree. With this in mind, perhaps a serial killer type thriller would be good. Mr Zsasz??

That would be cool. He did escape from Arkham in Batman Begins.

Riko
09-02-2008, 01:42 PM
I would like the story to be more Begins related. Batman Begins was 10 times better than the Dark Knight. The Dark Knight was a fantastic movie and one of the greatest ever. But BB had a much much better story and the film (cinematography, the feel) was just executed a lot better. I think a lot of people overlook BB and just say, "OH DARK KNIGHT IS THE BEST EVER, HEATH IS THE ^^^^ AND OMG TWO FACE AND THE STORY". People need to go back and watch BB again, it is hard to describe what it is but that film is a real masterpiece and should be getting more credit than it has been getting.

maybe for bat-fans Begins is better, but when focused on mainstream public TDK had to be what is was: bigger, more twists, more action...those elements make it more attractive for non- or the not so bat-fans...

personally I see TDK as a perfect supplement to Begins.

Apart from begins TDK was a very good batman movie, action movie, thriller, suspenses movie, even drama movie and crime-movie.

Begins was a very good Batman-movie with some nice action, but that's it.

+ Begins DID get the credit it deserves, much more than non batfans would admit :)

Riko
09-02-2008, 01:55 PM
No it will never, because the only reason TDK did so well was because of ledgers DEATH...if he hadnt of died then it prolly would of done about as good as Batman Begins..

that is still over the top...it would still make a lot of money, but just not like it does now. Hard to say how much, that is just pure speculation.

Ledger is a factor of the succes, dead or alive. Before his death, there were already good word about his performance...the performance stays the same, and the female fans of ledger too, so Ledger had a big influence to the succes of TDK, dead or alive. But sadly, dead has more effect than alive...

But saying with Ledger the film would be as succesful as Begins I do not believe, Begins was not a flop, far from it, but it wasn't a very huge financial succes either..

Valfar
09-02-2008, 03:28 PM
I think total box office sales worldwide for Batman Begins was around $360mill..i think that movie did deserve better but, i remember a lot of people crying about the Tumbler and how there was lack of a more mainstream villain,fight scenes were confusing to people, i actually like the fight scene view we got in TDK at the beginning when he is in the begins suit,giving that spinning elbow and smashing that thugs face off the rail.

Nocturne
09-02-2008, 11:20 PM
TDK also had the advantage of the audience's knowledge that it was a more realistic take on the character. I remember when Begins came out a lot of people weren't bothered because memories of Batman & Robin still hung heavily in their minds. So begins still had to overcome that prejudice as well which most people probably didn't get over until rental or TV showings.

Riko
09-03-2008, 03:01 AM
i actually like the fight scene view we got in TDK at the beginning when he is in the begins suit,giving that spinning elbow and smashing that thugs face off the rail.
³ couldn't agree more, there should be a lot more of that for the rest of the fighting scenes.

I realy thought by looking at that scene that they finally got it perfect :) but not so it seemed for the rest...

Old Grandpa
09-03-2008, 04:16 AM
Am I the only that sees this as a three act play. The first act introduces our hero, and everybody loves him. Now the second act our hero is an outcast, hunted by the very pepole that he is vowed to help. In the third act he has to reestablish himself as the hero of Gotham and once again be loved by the citizens he protects.

freestylex06x
09-03-2008, 06:56 AM
the one thing that would bother me is if batman becomes reestablished as a hero while the public thinks he still murdered people, but if he becomes cleared the truth would have to come out that dent killed them. this whole complex situation is going to be a pain to play out for the screenwriters i bet. i loved tdk but after i saw it once it seemed like a huge blur to me because it was so climactic and intense for the whole movie. i would have preferred more character development from batman and dent.

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 09:37 AM
Killer Croc.. FTW!!!

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4963/tdk2uc9.jpg
Model Source: Crocodile Jones Bust Painted by Joe Dunaway


Quick little mock up poster I did. Could work.

Hulksmashed
09-03-2008, 10:07 AM
Am I the only that sees this as a three act play. The first act introduces our hero, and everybody loves him. Now the second act our hero is an outcast, hunted by the very pepole that he is vowed to help. In the third act he has to reestablish himself as the hero of Gotham and once again be loved by the citizens he protects.

Could be, but I don't think it has to happen. If you think about it, the current mind set of the people actually HELPS Batman. He doesnt exist within the law and was hunted by the police in the first one, but of course he can handle them. In TDK Batman's major weakness was that Batman was not as big a threat as other players. People knew that Batman would not kill, so no matter what he did to them, it was better then ratting out a bigger threat. Now though, people (criminals as well) think Batman killed a few men (and prominent ones at that). So they will be shaking in thier boots when Batman comes calling.

Wor-Gar
09-03-2008, 02:41 PM
Am I the only that sees this as a three act play. The first act introduces our hero, and everybody loves him. Now the second act our hero is an outcast, hunted by the very pepole that he is vowed to help. In the third act he has to reestablish himself as the hero of Gotham and once again be loved by the citizens he protects.

I think that's the clear intent for Nolan. Then he's probably through with Batman.

So of course he'd want Batman to be the city's hero once again at the end.

Besides, like real life, we love to see heroes rise, then fall...then get back up again. There's no where else to go. He's at the bottom, hunted and hated by those he protects....he can only go up, even if it's just in one child's eyes.

tomstoyz
09-03-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm a huge fan of both films so it would be hard to decide which one I would like the third one to be more like. I just hope it's done well. The only thing that scares me is that Christopher Nolan only signed-up for 2 movies. They'll have to get him back for the third or get another great director. "Another director" is what scares me.

There's already a lot of speculation on who the villain/actor will be. I hope they do Catwoman & I think Angelina Jolie would be purrfect! MEOW!!

C-Phan
09-03-2008, 04:13 PM
Catwoman is a real possibility, now Batman is a fugitive, he can cross Catwoman and try to stop her even if he's no more on the good side of the law.

Old Grandpa
09-03-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm a huge fan of both films so it would be hard to decide which one I would like the third one to be more like. I just hope it's done well. The only thing that scares me is that Christopher Nolan only signed-up for 2 movies. They'll have to get him back for the third or get another great director. "Another director" is what scares me.

There's already a lot of speculation on who the villain/actor will be. I hope they do Catwoman & I think Angelina Jolie would be purrfect! MEOW!!

He'll be back. #1 Warner Bros won't let a cash cow like Nolan's Batman get away. #2 Nolan originaly drew up a three picture arc for Batman. The only changes he has to make is remove Joker from his planned trial sequence.

I would look for Catwoman to be in the next one. Why else would Lucius Fox say, when asked if the new suit would protect against dogs, reply "and cats too".

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 04:52 PM
Why else would Lucius Fox say, when asked if the new suit would protect against dogs, reply "and cats too".

It's an inside joke.

TDK ended on a very dark note. I just don't see a third film from Nolan having a whole love interest angle with Batman/Catwoman, especially if he's being hunted as a Murderer. Gary Oldman is the one who said "We don't need the Joker for the third film, we have the Riddler" when asked about how Heath Ledger's death would affect the appearance of the Joker in the next film.. so who knows.

Wor-Gar
09-03-2008, 05:11 PM
It's an inside joke.

TDK ended on a very dark note. I just don't see a third film from Nolan having a whole love interest angle with Batman/Catwoman, especially if he's being hunted as a Murderer. Gary Oldman is the one who said "We don't need the Joker for the third film, we have the Riddler" when asked about how Heath Ledger's death would affect the appearance of the Joker in the next film.. so who knows.

I agree with you about the Catwoman plug. It's there just in case they can figure out how to make Catwoman work.

There's another big reason for a new love interest thru Catwoman: Rachel died.

That's the biggest hint to me.

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 06:25 PM
I assumed they Killed Rachel because her story had peaked and there was really nothing left for her to do since the third film has no room for a love subplot with Batman an accused murderer of 5 people and on the run. That would be completely odd to me. Also with Nolan's declaration of "Realism" and avoiding the supernatural elements of the comic books, Catwoman would basically be a human woman who's a theif. That's it. I don't see how a normal theif could affect Gotham in the same way the Scarecrow + Ra's Al Ghul and the Joker + Two-Face (BB and TDK respectively) affected Gotham. There's no real threat to the city from a human theif.

Unless like you say Wor-Gar, they flip the Catwoman character to something completely new. I still think Michelle Phifer nailed that character and Halle Berry competely ruined it. lol.

I still think this chick, Sienna Guillory:
http://siennaguillory.fan-sites.org/gallery/albums/movies/residentevil/stills/still002.jpg

from RE: Apocalypse would make a nice EVIL Catwoman.

Valfar
09-03-2008, 06:32 PM
I agree, i think that woman would fit the "catwoman" look anyway..can't remember her from RE though, its been long since i watched those.

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 06:35 PM
can't remember her from RE though, its been long since i watched those.

Don't rewatch them.. you not "remembering" is your brains way of healing. Those flicks suck

Wor-Gar
09-03-2008, 06:41 PM
I assumed they Killed Rachel because her story had peaked and there was really nothing left for her to do since the third film has no room for a love subplot with Batman an accused murderer of 5 people and on the run. That would be completely odd to me. Also with Nolan's declaration of "Realism" and avoiding the supernatural elements of the comic books, Catwoman would basically be a human woman who's a theif. That's it. I don't see how a normal theif could affect Gotham in the same way the Scarecrow + Ra's Al Ghul and the Joker + Two-Face (BB and TDK respectively) affected Gotham. There's no real threat to the city from a human theif.

Unless like you say Wor-Gar, they flip the Catwoman character to something completely new.

I don't think Catwoman will carry the movie. There will be another villain to do that. I think she will carry the theme.

Batman's seen as a criminal now. Makes it easy for Catwoman to like him. And her questionable career choice might nicely echo Wayne's. A good love/hate relationship with lots of sparks...and a lesson too.

BXCOLLECTOR
09-03-2008, 06:42 PM
Sienna Guillory was a sexy Jill in RE and she would make a good catwoman

Valfar
09-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Don't rewatch them.. you not "remembering" is your brains way of healing..

Oh, hell i know..i was almost going to leave a negative comment about them lol, the first one was really bad..they all were..never did the game justice at all.

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 06:54 PM
Hey.. at least you're guaranteed a v-shot from Milla Jovovich in every one of those movies. That's something. Actually that's it. lol.

Aerosmith
09-03-2008, 06:58 PM
Im probably the only one, but id like to see Harley and Ivy. I seen a poster some one made with Kristen Bell as Harley and it look pretty bad ass!

Ven
09-03-2008, 07:03 PM
I might be in the minority here but PLEASE don't bring catwoman into this...

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 07:15 PM
I might be in the minority here but PLEASE don't bring catwoman into this...


No, I'm with you.

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 07:18 PM
I seen a poster some one made with Kristen Bell as Harley and it look pretty bad ass!

http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/userpics//poster_gotham-city2.jpg

Aerosmith
09-03-2008, 07:23 PM
Thanks for posting that! I had been looking for it for awhile now. :)

cerealkeller
09-03-2008, 08:47 PM
Is anyone watching Sons of Anarchy on FX? I'm not pro or con either way on bringing someone else in to play the Joker, but HOLY CRAP does the main character look like Heath Ledger. Profile is almost the same, eyes, jaw, smile lines. His nose is different but seriously check it out. Wouldn't be bad IMO for an "Arkham" moment of seeing the Joker in his cell. Can't tell yet if the guy can act !

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 08:56 PM
You talking about this guy:

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9562/56540571yy3.png

Ven
09-03-2008, 08:56 PM
just saw some pics on imdb.. very similiar his nose is too sharp though

cerealkeller
09-03-2008, 09:04 PM
You talking about this guy:

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9562/56540571yy3.png

Yeah that's the guy. It just struck me as I was watching this that"Holy crap, he looks a lot like Heath." Not dead on, but the resemblance is there.

Looks don't mean acting chops though. But then I never thought I would say in a million years that to me heath ledger is the definitive Joker.

RJMacReady16
09-03-2008, 09:07 PM
Yeah that's the guy. It just struck me as I was watching this that"Holy crap, he looks a lot like Heath." Not dead on, but the resemblance is there.

Looks don't mean acting chops though. But then I never thought I would say in a million years that to me heath ledger is the definitive Joker.

I'm not even a fan of Heath Ledger. I think his career for the most part was wayyyy over-hyped.

But recasting his version of the Joker would be next to impossible. He went out on top. (there's a joke there about "versus going out on top in Brokeback Mountain" but those have pretty much run their course).

cerealkeller
09-03-2008, 09:12 PM
Yeah, I don't want the Joker to be done but perhaps dormant until someone else takes over the movies and they have their own version. It's just really hard to let Heath's Joker go. Kind of like we didn't get to spend enough time with him.

Btw, Flass is also on this show!

Ven
09-03-2008, 09:44 PM
its a dam shame and tradegy that hes gone.. :(

Devil_666
09-03-2008, 09:51 PM
It's weird but.. before TDK obviously I knew who Heath Ledger was, but other than TDK I've never seen a movie with Heath in it. I know films he's in.. but I've never watched any. Kinda odd.

freestylex06x
09-03-2008, 10:01 PM
Nolan is not going to do catwoman. 2 costumed character crosses the line on his "realistic" portrayal of Gotham. Plus he isnt the type to just introduce a catwoman without explaining how she became like that and how she got her "powers". Joker was different because a mysterious past was his essence and he didnt have superpowers. Explaining her will take a good chunk and with all the problems and potential for plot progress left for batman on a personal level, catwoman isnt viable IMO. It would work if selina kyle is introduced as a love interest and just a woman not catwoman yet but seeing how this is probably the final flick, introducing selina and not making her catwoman would kind of be lame. I am liking the riddler with a creative and radical interpretation that completely contrasts his personality from the joker (and no POTC Depp).

cerealkeller
09-03-2008, 10:05 PM
It's weird but.. before TDK obviously I knew who Heath Ledger was, but other than TDK I've never seen a movie with Heath in it. I know films he's in.. but I've never watched any. Kinda odd.

I think that's what makes his Joker so amazing. I remembered him from the Patriot, Brothers Grimm, and a few other movies. He was fine in all of them, but nothing that made me notice him. Brokeback was the first movie I saw him in where he just became somebody other than Heath Ledger. His voice in that movie still gives me the creeps.

But he nailed the Joker and ceased to be Ledger to me completely. He now owns the role. Like I said, I think (if) Nolan does another, he'll have to move on to other villians but man is it hard to think we won't get Heath's Joker again.

anyways, since no Joker or Two-Face, the next villian(s) will really have to up their game! As long as Nolan remembers to personalize the story for Bruce/ batman, we should have no trouble.

Valfar
09-03-2008, 11:13 PM
All the women fell in love with Heath because of 10 Things I Hate About You and A Knights Tale...just from what i learned over the years, A Knights Tale was actually not too too bad.

I have to say i really liked Gary Oldman in The Professional though, very good performance..but, we already know he is good pretty much in anything he is in.

Darklord Dave
09-03-2008, 11:54 PM
Nolan is not going to do catwoman. 2 costumed character crosses the line on his "realistic" portrayal of Gotham. Plus he isnt the type to just introduce a catwoman without explaining how she became like that and how she got her "powers". Joker was different because a mysterious past was his essence and he didnt have superpowers. Explaining her will take a good chunk and with all the problems and potential for plot progress left for batman on a personal level, catwoman isnt viable IMO. It would work if selina kyle is introduced as a love interest and just a woman not catwoman yet but seeing how this is probably the final flick, introducing selina and not making her catwoman would kind of be lame. I am liking the riddler with a creative and radical interpretation that completely contrasts his personality from the joker (and no POTC Depp).

Um, you do know that Catwoman doesn't have any powers right? And that the current incarnation of catwoman just wears a black catsuit? Of any of the Bat-rogues she's the most likely to fit into Nolan's more realistic Gotham - she's essentially just an acrobatic thief.

Old Grandpa
09-04-2008, 12:07 AM
Um, you do know that Catwoman doesn't have any powers right? And that the current incarnation of catwoman just wears a black catsuit? Of any of the Bat-rogues she's the most likely to fit into Nolan's more realistic Gotham - she's essentially just an acrobatic thief.

AMEN ! ! ! ! !

Devil_666
09-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Nolan is not going to do catwoman. 2 costumed character crosses the line on his "realistic" portrayal of Gotham. Plus he isnt the type to just introduce a catwoman without explaining how she became like that and how she got her "powers".


Um, you do know that Catwoman doesn't have any powers right? And that the current incarnation of catwoman just wears a black catsuit? Of any of the Bat-rogues she's the most likely to fit into Nolan's more realistic Gotham - she's essentially just an acrobatic thief.

What DD said. She'd fit in perfectly.. EXCEPT: the tone of the third film imo won't allow it. Like I said earlier, Chris Nolan is adament about avoiding the super power/super natural elements of the comics/cartoon. He's trying to portray a realistic world for HIS version of Batman, Gotham and it's criminals. So Catwoman would be a normal human theif. Joker was just insane. Two-Face was scarred, and insane. Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow.. all mentally unstable. But still ALL normal humans. Nolan is essentially doing normal movies with a comic book character/characters. Not comic book movies.

Old Grandpa
09-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Riddler, or Killer Croc whatever. PLEASE NO ROBIN

Devil_666
09-04-2008, 12:14 AM
Chris has a funny quote, something like "During Batman Begins, Robin is somewhere out there still in a crib". lol. Plus someone else quoted Bale saying something like "Robin will NEVER appear as long as I'm Batman". Not exact quotes.. but you get the drift.

Riko
09-14-2008, 02:49 PM
Chris has a funny quote, something like "During Batman Begins, Robin is somewhere out there still in a crib". lol. Plus someone else quoted Bale saying something like "Robin will NEVER appear as long as I'm Batman". Not exact quotes.. but you get the drift.

no, he said, he won't do a batman movie if robin is in it

Nuka Cola Kidd
09-14-2008, 04:16 PM
I think they should make robin..nightwing if they are going to put him in it..im sure thats been said before

freestylex06x
09-14-2008, 05:32 PM
i like that poster, makes a harley seem possible but still doubt nolan will, please no catwoman!

FDBMath
09-15-2008, 09:50 AM
Catwoman portrayed as she was in Year One/Long Halloween/Dark Victory could work. Catwoman as she was portrayed in Batman Returns would suck.

mosaicsquare
09-15-2008, 11:50 AM
Batman shouldn't have any allies.. it makes it much more interesting to see him fight against his odds. Besides, if worst comes to worst he still has Gordan.

With the Rumors circulating towards the next film I think it's believable to see Johnny Depp don the green suit with the question marks and I am looking forward for his portrayal, however I can't say for the Penguin. With Nolan's direction the Penguin is likely going to be another mobster.... so with that in mind lets not forget Salvatore Maroni who was still alive and kicking (yes even on crutches) at the end of the movie.

To be honest though I get a bit weak in the knees when thinking in terms of the next film. If you noticed and I am sure all of you have Nolan's Batman has always fought against the Italian Mob... I guess thats okay since he wants to keep the film's flavor away from the supernatural aspects.... but do we really need a 3rd film circulating the Mob again?.... It's probably going to end up on the same note as TDK, meaning the mob will hire another Villain from the Arkham Rouge Gallery to take Batman out.... to say the least if Nolan doesn't add new aspects to the 3rd film it's going to end up repetitive.

Darkseed
09-16-2008, 11:13 AM
Remember Batman is a vigilante being hunted by the police for the murder of Harvey Dent and others.

I could see the lure of Catwoman. Batman struggles with being hunted and portrayed as a villian. Winds up being seduced by Catwoman who is working with Ghul's daughter(s). A film of revenge. Nothing worse than a woman scorned or father killed. Bane is the Ghul's body guard (I'd like to see him in the film, so I have to add a part).

Batman struggles with right / wrong while being drawn deeper with his affections for Catwoman. Discover's her true intentions battles the bad guys and personal demons to concrete his purpose as Batman. All while helping Gotham and avoiding arrest.

Movie ends with Batman still being Gothams #1 vigilante, Batman accepts his role and bad guys cast out. Riddler can be used in Batman 4. Batman will need redemption to make it into the JLA movie. :naughty

Never, ever, ever include Robin. Great for comics but blah in the movies. Batman needs fight personal demons and bad guys alone, helps build the character.

Or I'll wait on the Nolan boys to write another awesome script :D

Nocturne
09-16-2008, 12:10 PM
I'd like to see Robin Williams finally get his appearance in a Batman film, they guys been rumoured for every single film since Burton's Batman back in 89. He doesn't have to play a villain or be funny, he's a really underrated dramatic actor. Has anyone else seen him in Chris Nolan's Insomnia he's fantastic.

Would just like to see him finally end up in a Bat film

Azrael23
09-16-2008, 09:29 PM
It seems that ever since Schumacher's campy Batman run everyones been against Robin despite the fact that he's a sizable part of Batman's history. People tend to forget and take Nolan's words out of context as far as heighten realism which is still geared into fantasy Ergo Robin could technically work, he would just have to be adapted into a way that would fit Nolan's version of Batman.

As a 12 year old child he wouldn't work fighting alongside Bale's Batman, but thats not to say that he couldn't eventually be trained to become Robin at some later time. As Nolan established Batman is part of a movement, and so is Alfred and Fox, there is no reason why ®obin couldn't eventually become part of that movement.

freestylex06x
09-16-2008, 09:48 PM
In Nolan's world Wayne became Batman at the age of 30, that included many years of training with the League of Shadows, personal training, and going to Princeton. I don't think Wayne has all that time to teach a kid how to become on the same level as him. Even with his level, Wayne is having trouble (dog bites, van slams, etc.). Yes, you could have him as just a orphaned boy but you can't make him into a Robin in one movie anyways. Plus, to tell you the truth, a sidekick sounds lame in this dark Gotham. The point is to make Wayne be alone, not have more companions and watch him overcome it. I doubt Nolan is going to make a Batman 4 or 5. Hes probably sick of it right now.

Azrael23
09-17-2008, 05:25 AM
In Nolan's world Wayne became Batman at the age of 30, that included many years of training with the League of Shadows, personal training, and going to Princeton. I don't think Wayne has all that time to teach a kid how to become on the same level as him. Even with his level, Wayne is having trouble (dog bites, van slams, etc.). Yes, you could have him as just a orphaned boy but you can't make him into a Robin in one movie anyways. Plus, to tell you the truth, a sidekick sounds lame in this dark Gotham. The point is to make Wayne be alone, not have more companions and watch him overcome it. I doubt Nolan is going to make a Batman 4 or 5. Hes probably sick of it right now.

Wayne would have plenty of time to teach Robin. Introduce the character
at age 12 after years of training he could easily become Robin at the age of 17 or 18 yrs old, but in the mean time develop the characters alter ego before going into his heroic side. Also why view a new Robin as merely a side-kick, an apprentice or heir to continue the fight would be the route to take. And as far as Batman 4 and 5 goes, yeah I doubt Nolan would be at the helm by the time Robin may need to resurface but surely the next director can probably adapt Robin in their own unique way while keeping a similar tone that Nolan introduced.

RJMacReady16
09-17-2008, 07:10 AM
What some people don't realize is that Robin isn't a part of the Batman myth Nolan is telling. Robin didn't come along until a year after Batman's debut, and it was only to attract a younger audience.

I don't really mind Robin in the comics---but I'm not eager to squeeze him into the films just yet. I think they should use Robin only after they've exhausted all of their good ideas. He could come along and help push out another couple of films before the whole thing runs try and it's due for a revamp.

Starkiller
09-17-2008, 07:12 AM
Robin should only be used in Batman when Batman is older. It's work from a physical standpoint as he can't once do some things he did when we was young as well as the toll his crime fighting has taken on his psyche. Robin brings a fresh perspective to Batman's world and brings a humanizing aspect after which Bruce has been hardened from years and years of "work".

ProgMatinee
09-17-2008, 08:47 AM
I still think the Riddler plays in best with a redemption story line. Imagine a sly, but highly likable, Riddler (played perfectly by Tony Shalhoub) tricking all of Gotham into believing that Bruce & Wayne Industries are behind a horrible event (ie poisoning the water supply killing hundreds). Gotham would now be against BOTH Bruce and Batman. Bruce can't hide behind either identity and must expose the Riddler as the true culprit in order to redeem the Batman character and therefore clearing Bruce Wayne and Wayne Industries.

Add a female villian (probably Catwoman) as a potential love interest and a third villian (probably Bane) as Riddlers "strongman" for action scenes and you've got a film.

automaton
09-17-2008, 12:12 PM
I still think the Riddler plays in best with a redemption story line. Imagine a sly, but highly likable, Riddler (played perfectly by Tony Shalhoub) tricking all of Gotham into believing that Bruce & Wayne Industries are behind a horrible event (ie poisoning the water supply killing hundreds). Gotham would now be against BOTH Bruce and Batman. Bruce can't hide behind either identity and must expose the Riddler as the true culprit in order to redeem the Batman character and therefore clearing Bruce Wayne and Wayne Industries.

Add a female villian (probably Catwoman) as a potential love interest and a third villian (probably Bane) as Riddlers "strongman" for action scenes and you've got a film.



the spirit of joel schumaker has manifested.

Nocturne
09-17-2008, 01:30 PM
I'm glad someone sad that, I was thinking about it but felt mean :lol

Wor-Gar
09-17-2008, 01:36 PM
Riddler seems like the same type of villain we just had in Joker. I mean, I know they're different, but given what Nolan did to Joker -- having him be such a calculating schemer -- seems like it would be hard for Riddler to top Joker's complex plans.

james1976
09-17-2008, 01:43 PM
I think the only way Robin would work in this continuity is to introduce him like Gunn was introduced in Angel. maybe have him as a head of a street gang who works with Bats but also on his own, dunno just brainstorming.
The whole "ward" idea is a totally outdated concept and only serves to make Batman look like a pedophile. And, honestly, I think they should just skip "Robin" all together and start out as Nightwing.
and Bane needs his own movie. The only character to ever figure out that Wayne is Batman needs something to over shadow the late Jeep Swenson's oaf from Batman and Robin.
also, Riddler could be done like Jigsaw perhaps...if you wanted to turn him really nasty. I think the villain that makes most sense would be catwoman (because Bruce's love interest is dead) or Poison Ivy (with all the environment issues being raised in our current political envoronment) or Harley Quinn if you want to continue where the Joker left off.
My picks (not my guess) would be Harley and Ivy working together like in the animated series.

ProgMatinee
09-17-2008, 02:14 PM
the spirit of joel schumaker has manifested.

Whatever. I'm not bringing this outside the real world Nolan style. My Riddler would be as far from that p.o.s. that Carey did as possible. Also, "schumaker vs nolan" is about execution and style, not premis of the story.

Wor-Gar, Riddler would be completely different from the Joker because he would be right out there in public and all of Gotham would fall in love with him as opposed to fear him, as they did with the Joker or Scarecrow. Thats why a likable actor like Tony Shalhoub would be brilliant. He cosies right in with the people totally passive aggressive and turns all of Gotham on Bruce for his own gains. He can be a false prophet type character pretending to carry the Harvey Dent torch.

It also creates a story where Batman has to utilize his detective role in exposing the truth more so than just being a ninja with toys. :rolleyes:

Nocturne
09-17-2008, 02:36 PM
I don't know how they could get Ivy to work in the real world concept myself, unless they remove the plant powers and just make her a hardcore eco-terrorist. But by doing that you lose a lot of the charm of the character

Bigfoot-X
09-17-2008, 02:50 PM
About this whole Robin thing, something did cross my mind.

Now, I haven't been reading the Batman comics for sometime and when I was collecting Batman (Jim Aparo art) and Detective Comics (Norm Breyfogle art) during the early 90s, there wasn't much mention about Gordon's son.

In fact, I had no idea he had a son until I read it on Wiki!

Now, what got me thinking was several scenes in TDK where Gordon's son appears in several scenes.

1) After the Tumbler/Batpod chase scene ending with Joker's arrest - Gordon goes home and tucks James Jr. into bed. Jr asks Gordon "did Batman save you?" and Gordon replies something along the lines of "Actually, this time I saved him".

2) At the end when the Gordon's family is held hostage by Two-Face. The poor kid is traumatized by a maniac with only half a face at gun point. Then, he watches the maniac "fall to his death" followed by Batman after Batman saves his life.

Next, Batman goes on the run, and Jr. asks Gordon "Why is he running? He didn't do anything wrong"

What if, Jr. thinks of Batman as a role model of sorts (having saved his life as well as Batman's "relationship" with Gordon) and decides to help Batman in TDK, becoming the next Robin! What a twist! :p

But think about it - in The Batman (animated series) there's Batgirl (who's Gordon's daughter) and there's Robin who looks to be younger than Batgirl/Barbara.

Of course its just speculation spawned from my wild imagination :D

Old Grandpa
09-17-2008, 02:51 PM
Everyone seems concerned that Chris Nolan won't do a Bats 3 as he has not signed a contract. Look what happens when the director signs a contract. They loose control. Warner Brothers took control of Batman and Robin from Joel Schumacher, and almost killed the franchise forever The Suits always want more, and bigger is better. They did the same to Sam Raimi and Spiderman 3 when they forced Venom into Sam's script. Not being under contract to Warner Bros. gives him more freedom. I think Chris Nolan has every intention to do Bats 3, but is making sure he keeps control.

Nocturne
09-17-2008, 02:52 PM
It's definitely a plausible idea, there seemed to be a certain amount of hero worship for Batman from Gordon's son

Old Grandpa
09-17-2008, 03:01 PM
I think you can pretty much rule out Johnny Depp as Riddler. He is quoted as saying he woundn't be cought dead in a DC film. It seems Marvel's Iron Man has clouded his vision. Must be the limited vision of the costume.

Darkseed
09-17-2008, 04:34 PM
I think you can pretty much rule out Johnny Depp as Riddler. He is quoted as saying he woundn't be cought dead in a DC film. It seems Marvel's Iron Man has clouded his vision. Must be the limited vision of the costume.

I'm hoping The Riddler isn't the next villian. Assuming the quote is accurate, I hope this squashes Riddler rumors. Not that Depp is the only artor to play the character :o

Azrael23
09-17-2008, 04:48 PM
The whole "ward" idea is a totally outdated concept and only serves to make Batman look like a pedophile. And, honestly, I think they should just skip "Robin" all together and start out as Nightwing.

That wouldn't make any sense to introduce Nightwing before Robin.
Graysom first becoming Robin before becoming his own man in Nightwing would be pivotal to his story, by skipping it you're remove alot of things concerning his connection and relationship to Batman. If you're going to remove that then you might as well don't bother having Robin altogether.


What if, Jr. thinks of Batman as a role model of sorts (having saved his life as well as Batman's "relationship" with Gordon) and decides to help Batman in TDK, becoming the next Robin! What a twist!

But think about it - in The Batman (animated series) there's Batgirl (who's Gordon's daughter) and there's Robin who looks to be younger than Batgirl/Barbara.

Of course its just speculation spawned from my wild imagination

Thats to much of a drastic change, that would be basically the same thing Schmacher did with Batgirl's character in the infamous Batman and Robin. Making her Alfred's niece and changing her from Barbara Gordon to Barbara Wilson, not to mention the whole point of taking Robin in (Grayson in particular) would be the fact that Grayson's
history mirror's Bruces.

Starkiller
09-17-2008, 04:57 PM
I'm not a big fan of Bane. The only way he could defeat Batman was because of his juice. Without it Bats could take him on with ease. Plus he took on Batman after he had been sick and taking on all of arkhams inmates, he cheated and didn't take him on in his prime. I never really respected Bane as a villain.

I'd kill to see Riddler. IMHO he works the best for the third and final act of the Nolan trilogy.

automaton
09-17-2008, 05:29 PM
i have said it before, but Guy Pearce as the Riddler seems like the perfect fit. abandon the typical question mark costumed caricature and imagine an intellectual suspense thriller as different from TDK as BB was...

Edward Nigma is the head of the task force created to solve the mystery of the Batman, but in doing so, weaves a puzzle that not only holds the answer to Bruce Wayne's secret, it threatens the vary existence of Gotham City.

ProgMatinee
09-18-2008, 07:16 AM
i have said it before, but Guy Pearce as the Riddler seems like the perfect fit. abandon the typical question mark costumed caricature and imagine an intellectual suspense thriller as different from TDK as BB was...


Uh. Thats pretty much what I was saying but you called it "spirit of Joel Schumaker", the only difference is that I had a different actor as the Riddler and a different plot point to set up the suspense.

freestylex06x
09-18-2008, 07:26 AM
yeah that sounds good i just dont want to see a joker wanna be, schizo riddler, i just want a logical, cold riddler persona tormenting batman

ProgMatinee
09-18-2008, 07:31 AM
I don't want Jim Carey crazy laughing hysterical Riddler, but I think "cold" is a bit too Ledger Joker.

Seriously, if the Riddler was set up as almost a likable character (highly quirky and obsessive like Tony Shaloub's "Monk" character) that ingratiates himself to Gotham with a twisted sense of enjoyment in fooling everyone while he's really out to ruin the city and Wayne Industries, that would be the true Ed Nigma.

james1976
09-18-2008, 10:17 AM
That wouldn't make any sense to introduce Nightwing before Robin.
Graysom first becoming Robin before becoming his own man in Nightwing would be pivotal to his story, by skipping it you're remove alot of things concerning his connection and relationship to Batman. If you're going to remove that then you might as well don't bother having Robin altogether.


Thats to much of a drastic change, that would be basically the same thing Schmacher did with Batgirl's character in the infamous Batman and Robin. Making her Alfred's niece and changing her from Barbara Gordon to Barbara Wilson, not to mention the whole point of taking Robin in (Grayson in particular) would be the fact that Grayson's
history mirror's Bruces.

Well, what's wrong with drastic? Killing off Ras Al Ghul and Two-Face wasn't too drastic even though they both have bigger plotlines in the comics. Robin was created following the hype of Disney's Peter Pan. That doesn't fit this gritty modern day Gotham IMO. I would rather not have Robin at all. I assume Mattel is going to start applying pressure to have more characters for more toys. TDKs main stream toy line was weak at best. So if you have to have Robin, at least make him respectable because the whole circus/Peter Pan thing is outdated. He needs an updated origin.
Speaking of Batgirl, she's, what, six in this movie? So Batman is in his mid 40's when Batgirl appears?
And actually, changing Batgirl to ALfred's neice didn't bother me near as much as the pop-out ice skates on the batsuit and Bane's characterization did.

automaton
09-18-2008, 11:29 AM
Uh. Thats pretty much what I was saying but you called it "spirit of Joel Schumaker", the only difference is that I had a different actor as the Riddler and a different plot point to set up the suspense.


it was the combo of this sentence...

"Add a female villian (probably Catwoman) as a potential love interest and a third villian (probably Bane) as Riddlers "strongman" for action scenes and you've got a film."

and the idea of the dude from Wings playing the Riddler that made me think of schumaker...

ProgMatinee
09-18-2008, 12:04 PM
Tony Shaloub is a pretty good actor. As for the villians sentence, I think you'll find them necessities no matter who directs. Unfortunately, you can't have an all intellectual superhero movie and unfortunately, you can't have a superhero movie without a chick.

If they make Riddler, even Guy Pearce, a tough fight then Nolan will have really messed up the character.

automaton
09-18-2008, 01:28 PM
your Schumaker vibe is peeking through again!

of course you can have an intellectual superhero movie and you most certainly can do so without a chick! why limit oneself to the constraints that Hollywood has continued to push? the loss of Rachel Dawes helps fuel a character such as Bruce Wayne... his anguish needs to be savored and further explored... Alfred, Fox, and Gordon may not be token chicks, but they certainly provide the needed heart to Wayne's character... The Riddler would allow one a further insight to Wayne's cognitive and detective skills (imagine Nigma as so absolutely deviously brilliant and obsessed to figuring out the riddle as to who the Batman is that he creates his own tapestry of mysteries... jeopardizing the citizens and city of Gotham... and the very people Wayne is closest to)... add to this Gotham's newly flourishing underworld... soured vigilantes and citizens and a city more threatened by its protector than embraced.

ProgMatinee
09-18-2008, 01:52 PM
I'd love to see them not do the chick thing, but its not reality in Hollywood unfortunately.

Develope what you mean by Riddler jeopardizing the citizens by trying to figure out the Batman riddle. I don't understand.

I think it makes more sense for the Bruce to use his detective skills to figure out the Riddler's riddle not the Riddler trying to figure a riddle.

automaton
09-18-2008, 02:13 PM
Nigma, even beyond his official capacity of leading the task force to bring the Bat to justice, is obsessed with discovering the ultimate riddle... Batman's identity. Nigma's alter ego, The Riddler, sees no trap too small or no collateral damage too large in order to decipher the mystery...

Starkiller
09-18-2008, 03:00 PM
My choice for the Riddler:

http://www.lashorasperdidas.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/jackie-earle-haley.jpg

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjQ5Mzk2ODM1Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjk1NTcyMQ@@._ V1._SX295_SY400_.jpg

Jackie Earle Haley could pull of the creepiness and intelligence of the Riddler.
Just shave the goatee, and grow his hair in a bit...and whala instance genius.

Azrael23
09-18-2008, 04:22 PM
Well, what's wrong with drastic? Killing off Ras Al Ghul and Two-Face wasn't too drastic even though they both have bigger plotlines in the comics. Robin was created following the hype of Disney's Peter Pan. That doesn't fit this gritty modern day Gotham IMO. I would rather not have Robin at all. I assume Mattel is going to start applying pressure to have more characters for more toys. TDKs main stream toy line was weak at best. So if you have to have Robin, at least make him respectable because the whole circus/Peter Pan thing is outdated. He needs an updated origin.
Speaking of Batgirl, she's, what, six in this movie? So Batman is in his mid 40's when Batgirl appears?
And actually, changing Batgirl to ALfred's neice didn't bother me near as much as the pop-out ice skates on the batsuit and Bane's characterization did.

I'm not sure that your examples of killing off villains in the film medium classify as drastic changes, I mean these are two distinct mediums because within a comic forum a villain/hero has the room and capability to be explored and evolve, in a cinematic setting its very much limited. IMO they shouldn't shoehorn a Nightwing character in before having him be Robin first, which would be the starting point in this.

Robin's reason for existing is irrelevant, what is relevant however, whether you like the character or not is the fact that he is part of the Batman mythos.
There has been 3 distinct Robin's so I'm not sure I follow if any needs an updated origin. Assuming you're referring to Grayson's Robin his origin is fine the way it is, the point of Batman is that its suppose to be timeless so how can it really be outdated? There is nothing wrong with keeping his circus background, its part of who he is and the way that Robin (TD) is depicted today would mesh with the gritty tone of TDK, it just needs a director capable of executing it properly.

I'm not even going to comment about B&R, that movie was plain terrible, I mean it did give me a few laughs and chuckles, but overall they got almost
everything and everyone wrong.

Ven
09-18-2008, 05:15 PM
I didn't know they had a chick in TDK...

Lord Aykroyd
09-18-2008, 05:25 PM
I didn't know they had a chick in TDK...

:read You wont regret it! (Best comic ever imo)

EDIT just realized I may have been way off track here -- im talking about robin in the comic...

james1976
09-19-2008, 07:40 AM
I'm not sure that your examples of killing off villains in the film medium classify as drastic changes, I mean these are two distinct mediums because within a comic forum a villain/hero has the room and capability to be explored and evolve, in a cinematic setting its very much limited. IMO they shouldn't shoehorn a Nightwing character in before having him be Robin first, which would be the starting point in this.

Robin's reason for existing is irrelevant, what is relevant however, whether you like the character or not is the fact that he is part of the Batman mythos.
There has been 3 distinct Robin's so I'm not sure I follow if any needs an updated origin. Assuming you're referring to Grayson's Robin his origin is fine the way it is, the point of Batman is that its suppose to be timeless so how can it really be outdated? There is nothing wrong with keeping his circus background, its part of who he is and the way that Robin (TD) is depicted today would mesh with the gritty tone of TDK, it just needs a director capable of executing it properly.

I'm not even going to comment about B&R, that movie was plain terrible, I mean it did give me a few laughs and chuckles, but overall they got almost
everything and everyone wrong.

I feel like I haven't made myself clear. I'm all for excluding Robin in the Batman franchise. I just wanted to think of a way you could introduce Robin into this realistic world Nolan has created.
I think a character's reason for existing IS important and just because they exist in the mythos in comics doesn't mean they have to exist that way in film or at all. Do we really want to see Ace the Bathound or Bat-mite or Tweedledee and Tweedledum? I feel like BECAUSE these are two different forums you can make changes. Was anyone screaming in 1989 when Harvey Dent was black? Or that Dent's backstory is completely different in TDK? I would've liked to have seen the Holiday killer, but I still loved TDK anyway.
In summation, lose Robin and the franchise will continue on strong.

Azrael23
09-19-2008, 04:21 PM
I feel like I haven't made myself clear. I'm all for excluding Robin in the Batman franchise. I just wanted to think of a way you could introduce Robin into this realistic world Nolan has created.
I think a character's reason for existing IS important and just because they exist in the mythos in comics doesn't mean they have to exist that way in film or at all. Do we really want to see Ace the Bathound or Bat-mite or Tweedledee and Tweedledum? I feel like BECAUSE these are two different forums you can make changes. Was anyone screaming in 1989 when Harvey Dent was black? Or that Dent's backstory is completely different in TDK? I would've liked to have seen the Holiday killer, but I still loved TDK anyway.
In summation, lose Robin and the franchise will continue on strong.

You've made yourself perfectly clear, I'm just trying to get you to hear mines. The difference between Robin, Bathound and Bat-Mite is the fact that Robin is still actually around and is in current use, which shows you that Robin has alot more potential than you give him credit for. You see him as a Peter Pan sidekick rip off when infact over the past few years the character of Robin has gotten far more compelling than he ever was since his introduction. Not only has Grayson progressed beyond Robin and grew into his own man as Nightwing, but Tim Drake has redefined Robin. So there is no point of having Nightwing before Robin, unless its a new character altogether and ignoring Nightwing's background as Robin doesn't make Nolan's world anymore realistic than it already is, because its heighten realism, which means its still geared in fantasy Nolan's Batman isn't realism in the absolute sense.

No offense but it seems as if you're deviating from the main point, because what exactly does Harvey Dent's depiction in Batman 89 by Billy Dee Williams who was later replaced anyways with Tommy Lee Jones have to do with the possibility of Robin in any future Batman adaptation? Nothing at all. Not to mention Robin's absence wouldn't necessarily make the franchise intrinsically strong, a good and compelling story and characterization is what makes franchises strong. Robin's introduction wasn't what derailed the original franchise it was the fact that it became campier as the series progressed and it went from dark to light, introducing alot of characters and side-kicks didn't help matters either. At some point Robin is going to resurface in Batman cinema, he's part of the mythos whether you like him or not, but that doesn't mean the franchise will be intrinsically weakened when he does appear and there is nothing wrong with keeping an open mind concerning the possibilities of re-exploring his character.

Darklord Dave
09-19-2008, 06:31 PM
The ^^^^ Grayson character as DC has developed him is one of the better comic characters out there. But could Grayson's "Robin" be integrated into the Nolan world?

I do think that the circus is outdated - but the Graysons could be extreme sports stars - rock climbing, base jumping, skateboarding, motocross, etc. The parents are killed for rejecting an endorsement deal from mega-mogul Pamela Isley's new energy drink Chloro Fill. Bruce takes in the orphaned teen (15) ^^^^ Grayson since he had sponsored the extreme sports team.

Grayson, being a resourceful little brat, discovers Bruce's secret and follows him out one night and ends up saving his life.

We wouldn't necessarily see him as Robin, but I can see ^^^^ Grayson fitting in okay.

Azrael23
09-19-2008, 08:09 PM
The ^^^^ Grayson character as DC has developed him is one of the better comic characters out there. But could Grayson's "Robin" be integrated into the Nolan world?

I do think that the circus is outdated - but the Graysons could be extreme sports stars - rock climbing, base jumping, skateboarding, motocross, etc. The parents are killed for rejecting an endorsement deal from mega-mogul Pamela Isley's new energy drink Chloro Fill. Bruce takes in the orphaned teen (15) ^^^^ Grayson since he had sponsored the extreme sports team.

Grayson, being a resourceful little brat, discovers Bruce's secret and follows him out one night and ends up saving his life.

We wouldn't necessarily see him as Robin, but I can see ^^^^ Grayson fitting in okay.

But one thing people are not considering is the fact that Batman is timeless, so while for us the circus may be outdated it wouldn't really apply to something like Batman's world. One thing I've notice is that ever since Nolan took this heighten realism approach people are now throwing practically everything out of the window that they perceive wouldn't fit. The trick to making Robin work is giving him an edge and mixing him with all 3 Robins, so while he wouldn't work as a kid he would work as a young adult that still needs some guidance.

And I do agree that Grayson has very much evolved over the years and I would personally love to see a solo Nightwing film, perhaps they could team him up with Bale's Batman and sorta imply that Bruce trained him and that he was at one point by his side fighting crime years ago without actually exploring it in great detail.

If Nolan ever did Robin putting him in a costume like this would work IMO and its probably one of the better looking Robin concepts.

http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanandrobinconceptbywd9.jpg

That being said I did like your extreme sports take and the endorsement deal and energy drink Chloro Fill :loland all that.

freestylex06x
09-19-2008, 08:20 PM
i like the concept of robin in the comics and cartoons but i want to see more inner conflict within the movie batman of being truly alone now except for alfred, fox, and gordon. i would like to see him in the next movie really be in a dark inner place of being isolated with the loss of rachel and dent. Nolan's take seems to portraying wayne as a lone wolf who now realizes his life is gone because batman. i personally want to see him overcome everything alone and it seems unrealistic to train a boy or teenager in one movie to become around batman's skill level unless Nolan puts in a big timeskip. On a side note, what are your feelings on a timeskip and Batman Beyond type movie? Seems like it would be interesting and a good way to incorporate a Robin/Nightwing persona without having a "sidekick" and just taking over.

Sachiel
09-19-2008, 08:42 PM
I think the "time-skip" movie most people want is "The Dark Knight Returns".

Azrael23
09-19-2008, 08:44 PM
[QUOTE=freestylex06x;1163402]i like the concept of robin in the comics and cartoons but i want to see more inner conflict within the movie batman of being truly alone now except for alfred, fox, and gordon. i would like to see him in the next movie really be in a dark inner place of being isolated with the loss of rachel and dent. Nolan's take seems to portraying wayne as a lone wolf who now realizes his life is gone because batman. i personally want to see him overcome everything alone and it seems unrealistic to train a boy or teenager in one movie to become around batman's skill level unless Nolan puts in a big timeskip.

A time skip is what I would be expecting if Robin ever came along, he would have to evolve over the course of 2-3 films and even then he still wouldn't be on Batman's level which he technically isn't within the comics. But if he was introduced as a 12 year old and was in training for 5-6 years becoming Robin at 17/18 years of age then he would be good enough to fight alongside Batman while still learning, so Batman would still be a lone wolf up until that point.



On a side note, what are your feelings on a timeskip and Batman Beyond type movie? Seems like it would be interesting and a good way to incorporate a Robin/Nightwing persona without having a "sidekick" and just taking over.

A time skip is the best route, thats one thing I didn't like about Batman Forever. For one reason Grayson was far to old at that time and he becomes Robin by the very end. Since Nolan seems to focus on his characters inner struggles and relationships that should be the main focus of Grayson as a child, introducing Grayson with the prospect of him one day possibly taking over. And personally I would actually love a Batman Beyond film. I would love several faithful adaptations of various points in Batman's career.

james1976
09-20-2008, 01:35 PM
For me, the beauty of this current batch of superhero movies is that they are grounded in reality. It's not the entire Marvel/DC universe; it's "what would it be like if Spiderman lived in New York today?" or "How could Batman function today?" The minute a single man adopts a recently orphaned boy and enlists him to fight crime, I lose interest. I can't see it happening no matter how similar their backgrounds. Now, if they wanted to use Carrie Kelly's story with the parents who neglect her, I don't have as big of an issue with that. But mostly the thought of a child fighting along side Bale's Batman makes me cringe. For the record, I hate Bucky, too.

Darklord Dave
09-20-2008, 04:38 PM
I agree that the concept and character of "Batman" is timeless, but the expression of that concept needs to be set in the modern era to be acceptable to the great unwashed movie-going audience.

Circuses just aren't in the public eye in anymore. Ask a 12 year old if they want to go to the circus and they'll either laugh or think you mean cirque de soleil.

Azrael23
09-20-2008, 08:09 PM
I agree that the concept and character of "Batman" is timeless, but the expression of that concept needs to be set in the modern era to be acceptable to the great unwashed movie-going audience.

Circuses just aren't in the public eye in anymore. Ask a 12 year old if they want to go to the circus and they'll either laugh or think you mean cirque de soleil.

Even though the circus is no longer in the public eye, it still exist nonetheless.
IMO as far as Grayson's Robin is concerned he doesn't need altering, I mean its not as if his circus background is going to be a huge factor in the overall story, so why alter the traditional background to conform to today's audience? Especially if that background gives us a launching pad to Grayson's natural talent as an acrobat, at the age he's introduced he would
have already surpassed Bruce when he was 12. Ultimately his backstory is a means to an end and even though not to many kids go to the circus nowadays they still know what one is.

james1976
09-21-2008, 09:48 AM
Shockingly, I disagree. The circus is a big part of who Robin is. He comes from circus folk -- one step up from the meth addicts who work the state fair.

Darklord Dave
09-21-2008, 07:15 PM
Even though the circus is no longer in the public eye, it still exist nonetheless.
IMO as far as Grayson's Robin is concerned he doesn't need altering, I mean its not as if his circus background is going to be a huge factor in the overall story, so why alter the traditional background to conform to today's audience? Especially if that background gives us a launching pad to Grayson's natural talent as an acrobat, at the age he's introduced he would
have already surpassed Bruce when he was 12. Ultimately his backstory is a means to an end and even though not to many kids go to the circus nowadays they still know what one is.

With child labor laws nowadays, even if he came from a circus he wouldn't be allowed to be a trapeze artist. My pitch was that you can give him pre-existing skills and it doesn't have to be from a circus. He could be an Olympic gymnast. But he does have to have pre-existing skills if he's going to keep up with Batman after just a year or two of training.

Azrael23
09-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Shockingly, I disagree. The circus is a big part of who Robin is. He comes from circus folk -- one step up from the meth addicts who work the state fair.

Meth addicts?......:rotfl

Azrael23
09-21-2008, 11:02 PM
With child labor laws nowadays, even if he came from a circus he wouldn't be allowed to be a trapeze artist. My pitch was that you can give him pre-existing skills and it doesn't have to be from a circus. He could be an Olympic gymnast. But he does have to have pre-existing skills if he's going to keep up with Batman after just a year or two of training.

IMO his circus background should be kept, I'm not even going to require that Batman's world follow the same rules as our own, it is afterall, regardless of
how realistic the approach based off a comic book, therefore many movie goers need to just accept it and allow their imagination to take over. As far as his training is concerned it should be for atleast 5-6 years, because he would still be to young and inexperienced to even take to the streets with Batman. Joel Schumacher may catch hell for his terrible adaptations of Batman but he did understand that Robin needed to be older with an edge to actually work on film.

Batty
10-27-2008, 01:31 PM
There's a new LA Times interview with Nolan.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/10/christopher-nol.html

cerealkeller
10-27-2008, 02:24 PM
I guess it's up to Goyer and Jonathan Nolan to get Chris to come back. Hope they find a good hook to get him interested in the story again. I still don't get how he hasn't thought about a future installment when he ended the film with Batman taking on the blame of murder and Gordon smashing the Batsignal. I can see him being like "We'll tackle that in the third", but to say he hasn't given it any thought is puzzling to me.

Seditionary
10-27-2008, 04:30 PM
I love the dark knight, so much so that I can hardly watch Batman Begins anymore...although I love that movie and his has some wonderful moments. Although Batman kicked a ^^^^ ton of ass and was always busy in the Dark knight, I can sort of agree that he got the backseat to some of the plot. No big deal for me as I enjoy every character...

But
All I'd really wanna see in the next batman movie would be some more absolutely batman moments. The things I think about when I think about a Batman story...Lots of rooftops, going out on patrol of his city, beating up small time crooks as well as the big ones, getting down and dirty and getting more bruises, talking about his parents and his vow to gotham city in a bale narration would be incredible, feeling responsible/down in the dumps over the villains that flock to his city.

I honestly don't even really care about what villains or characters are added...I don't think the Joker can ever be topped as far as Batmans most classic, and most wanted to be seen, relationship. There is so much more batman they could capture and it could be incredible.

If they threw in arkham and any sort of nod to the joker, scarecrow, zsasz, even flass or falcone, I'd probably ^^^^ myself.

I think there is so many really good places they could go with it. It can be the first good third movie in a trilogy.

PapitoMX
10-27-2008, 09:32 PM
Screw Robin....... Bring back Ra's Al Ghul!!!!!! Now that could be a twist at the end of a part 3..... Batman is now consider a "criminal/murderer" by police.... "somehow" Joker escapes Arkham with no whereabouts, throw in a couple of "supervillians" in the mix...... Bruce falls for a girl name Talia who has a secret of her own..... fast forward to the end, a climatic/ epic fight between Master and Apprentice one last time with some sort of tradegy and finally the redemption of the Bats... Hey why not????? Robin could be left for Justice League Movie or to that new TV show they are trying to do on CW.

TwoFace
10-28-2008, 09:10 AM
For Bats 3 I dont want the Joker to be back, nor Two Face. I'd want something to do with Batman redeeming his image to the people of Gotham City.

Seditionary
10-28-2008, 11:41 AM
I agree with two face. But I don't want their presence in the last movie to be completely ignored like ra's

Darklord Dave
10-28-2008, 03:04 PM
It should be a romantic comedy. Talia comes to town looking for revenge for her father, meanwhile Catwoman is purloining valuables from the remaining mob bosses. Bruce falls for Talia and Batman falls for Catwoman - hijinks ensue.

cerealkeller
10-28-2008, 03:54 PM
It should be a romantic comedy. Talia comes to town looking for revenge for her father, meanwhile Catwoman is purloining valuables from the remaining mob bosses. Bruce falls for Talia and Batman falls for Catwoman - hijinks ensue.

:lol:lol So Kate Hudson for Catwoman and Julia Roberts for Talia? Where's Richard Gere's role? Maybe he could play The Riddler?

I think I just vomited in my mouth a little thinking of the poster for that:D

Darklord Dave
10-28-2008, 06:11 PM
:lol:lol So Kate Hudson for Catwoman and Julia Roberts for Talia? Where's Richard Gere's role? Maybe he could play The Riddler?

I think I just vomited in my mouth a little thinking of the poster for that:D

Julia's a little old - perhaps Mia Kushner? Kate Hudson - perfect casting for Selina! Richard Gere's too old too - Steve Carrell would be the Riddler! (or maybe Seth Rogan).

Dr.Mirakle32
10-28-2008, 08:42 PM
Am I the only one who seriously thinks Stephen Colbert would be an incredible Riddler? He looks exactly like the early comic book version of the character, and could pull off the character's dry humor. Even if it was a darker, more "realistic" interpretation, Colbert is an actor, and I'm sure he would be able to pull it off.

http://chaosandoldnight.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/the-riddler.jpghttp://a.abcnews.com/images/WNT/ap_StephenColbert_071017_mn.jpg

Just imagine Colbert in a dark green suit and question marked tie...

freestylex06x
10-28-2008, 09:07 PM
yeah he would work but the image already seen by the views of him on his show would be too hard to overcome as he isnt that great of an actor like ledger

LockJaw
10-28-2008, 09:17 PM
Colbert, sure, if you want to defile the franchise, ala Schumacher :stick

Dr.Mirakle32
10-28-2008, 09:21 PM
How so? Did people really think the teeny bopper, heart-throb from 10 THINGS I HATE ABOUT YOU and BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN would be the definitive Joker?

LockJaw
10-28-2008, 09:24 PM
true, well Heath had been a well respected actor in the business
he just hadn't found his niche until we all saw he could play a terrific villain.

i'm wondering more about David Tennant for the role
and even Depp rumors.

Nolan loves working with English actors, so maybe Tennant rumors are something to look at.

Seditionary
10-28-2008, 09:41 PM
I hate the riddler almost always. The dude from the adam west show was pretty much the closest thing to likable for me but I hate that ^^^^en outfit and pretty much every outfit he's ever worn. I think its hard for the riddler to work aesthetically in a nolan movie without losing that whole image. And if they created something new or different, fanboys would probably definitely get pissed. maybe that guy from momento could play him. who knows, well see.

cerealkeller
10-28-2008, 09:44 PM
It'll probably be a respected actor but not somebody you would automatically think of. Guy Pearce wants to work with Nolan again. I can see that. Whoever it is, I'm sure it'll be a knee jerk reaction to say "WTF?!", but after the choices Nolan's made, well.. I believe in Christopher Nolan.

LockJaw
10-28-2008, 09:46 PM
"I believe in Christopher Nolan."

Amen to that

cerealkeller
10-28-2008, 10:07 PM
I like the idea of not one central villain in the movie. Make it more about freaks coming out of everywhere, and showing the escalation of what the Joker started. Batman accepts his fate as the Guardian of Gotham city, knowing there will never be an end to this.

casper
10-28-2008, 10:47 PM
anyone read this (http://www.imdb.com/news/ns0000002/#ni0592891)?

Yodee
10-28-2008, 10:53 PM
anyone read this (http://www.imdb.com/news/ns0000002/#ni0592891)?

OOOOOOooooo interesting........still i hope he makes it! XD
OT: and i seriously hope ^^^^ing Cher DOES NOT play catwoman omfg :banghead