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OSCORP
08-21-2008, 07:20 AM
Which is the best Superhero movie?

These are MY choices, if you don't like them pick other. (if you think any of the spiderman or xmen movies are the best pick those....even if it's x-men 2 for example then pick xmen movies etc.

http://seriousnerd.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/copy-of-superman-movie-poster.jpg
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Batman-Begins-Poster-C12886824.jpeg
http://www.firstshowing.net/img/final-ironman-poster2-big.jpg
http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spiderman_Poster.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PE/877133.jpg
http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/incredible-hulk-poster-0.jpg
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/g/images/ghost-rider-poster-0.jpg

galactiboy
08-21-2008, 08:04 AM
Hard call, nostalgia makes me want to pick one of the Superman movies, but while awesome, they have some seriously flawed parts :lol

And the rest (except for Ghost Rider :lol) are great, but I decided to go with other, and Burton's 1989 Batman :rock To me, its still my favorite of all time.

carbo-fation
08-21-2008, 08:48 AM
Superman
The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
Superman 2
Iron Man
Spiderman 2

barbelith
08-21-2008, 08:52 AM
Superman remains the best superhero movie.
X2 is my favorite superhero movie.

IronFingaz
08-21-2008, 08:57 AM
1. Superman The Movie
2. (tie) Iron Man / Batman: The Dark Knight
3. (tie) Batman / Batman Returns
4. The Incredible Hulk
5. X-Men 2

Cocoboloboy
08-21-2008, 09:50 AM
1989 Batman. Still holds up well after almost 20yrs and no other comic book movie has come close to the frenzy it created. It made comic book movie history. TDK is a close second.

IrishJedi
08-21-2008, 09:51 AM
Too much TDK hype still going on for this to be an accurate poll result, imho.

EVILFACE
08-21-2008, 10:19 AM
People are putting Incredible Hulk and Ghost Rider as the best?????? All time???????

Superman The Movie
The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
V for Vendetta
Iron Man

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 10:30 AM
People are putting Incredible Hulk and Ghost Rider as the best?????? All time???????




Nobody's voted for those yet.

As for my choices? Well there's only so many good choices. I suppose i coulda added FF as a choice.:D

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 10:34 AM
Too much TDK hype still going on for this to be an accurate poll result, imho.


Could be. Lotta the younger folks think it's the best thing since sliced bread. (great flick but not the best superhero movie in my book)

Superman the movie.
TDK
Iron Man
Superman 2
Spider-Man
X-men

for me.

turtlepower73
08-21-2008, 10:36 AM
this is me again. i say iron man it was original. batman had like 6 movies before it..
so to me it was not the best.

Reinhardt
08-21-2008, 10:39 AM
1. Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Superman the movie
4. Spiderman 2
5. Unbreakable

plasmid303
08-21-2008, 10:40 AM
Jamming all three Spider-Man movies into one general vote option (same with X-Men also) isn't a great idea. Spidey 3 ruins it for the previous two movies in the trilogy.

Voted for Superman, it stands the test of time. TDK is awesome, but it's very new, and some people who voted for it may have a case of the newsies blinding their judgement.

1. Superman
2. Spider-Man 2
3. The Dark Knight

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 10:45 AM
Jamming all three Spider-Man movies into one general vote option (same with X-Men also) isn't a great idea. Spidey 3 ruins it for the previous two movies in the trilogy.

Thats why i posted this.

"if you think any of the spiderman or xmen movies are the best pick those....even if it's x-men 2 for example then pick xmen movies etc."

Just because YOU or ME might not think X3 or SM3 is the best of all time someone may. (and there's only so many poll options)



Voted for Superman, it stands the test of time. TDK is awesome, but it's very new, and some people who voted for it may have a case of the newsies blinding their judgement.


I agree

Spidey 3 ruins it for the previous two movies in the trilogy.



I disagree. X3 didn't ruin X1 and X2 for me. And ROTJ ewoks and all didn't ruin the first two. :)

pixletwin
08-21-2008, 10:46 AM
Superman 2. TDK would be a close second.

spidermonkey
08-21-2008, 11:11 AM
TDK, followed closely by Iron Man.

Moonloop
08-21-2008, 11:25 AM
While TDK was almost the best superhero movie ever. I still think Batman Begins was better. BB was a true masterpiece.

wofford29
08-21-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm all for nostalgia but there is absolutely no way Superman is a better film than The Dark Knight. Superman is great, but as a film, it's not even close. None on this list are.

Super Hero movies:

1. The Dark Knight
2. Superman
2. Batman Begins
4. Iron Man
5. Superman II

Comic Movies:

1. The Dark Knight
2. American Splendor
3. History of Violence
4. Superman
4. Batman Begins

plasmid303
08-21-2008, 11:36 AM
The thing about Superman and TDK is that they shouldn't be limited to a list of "best comic movie" when they are so much more than the "comic" classification really allows them to be. They are great movies in their own right, standing tall with the greatest of films, comics or not.

Can't really say the same for most of the other movies on the poll, which (in my opinion) are lighter, fluffier popcorn fare.

And Krayt, if the Spider-Man movies and X-Men movies are rolled up into 1 vote option, why wasn't the same done with Batman Begins and TDK? and in the same regard, Superman and Superman 2?

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 11:40 AM
Cause those are trilogy's and i thought i'd roll them up. The others are not.(again only so many poll options) And if you think that would make more room for more movies... Well it would be lame, as i think i named pretty much the best superhero movies.(kinda pushing it putting GR in there as it is, no need to have FF or DD in there.)

plasmid303
08-21-2008, 11:44 AM
Superman is like, a quintology (is that a word?). All the movies share continuity.

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 11:47 AM
It is what it is.

I named what I thought were the best Superhero movies. If someone thinks different that's what the "other" option is for.

barbelith
08-21-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm all for nostalgia but there is absolutely no way Superman is a better film than The Dark Knight.

It depends how we parse the question. I think The Dark Knight is a better film but it's not a very good superhero movie.

I also agree The Dark Knight is still too recent to have an accurate poll. It took a few years for everyone to start viewing the 1989 Batman a bit more objectively as well. The Dark Knight is great but it does have a few serious flaws, and for my money (this will be unpopular) X2 is actually the more mature, adult film.

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 12:02 PM
I'm all for nostalgia but there is absolutely no way Superman is a better film than The Dark Knight. Superman is great, but as a film, it's not even close. None on this list are.





C'mon dude you're not new to the internetwebs are ya? It's all OPINION that's all. To me Superman the movie is leagues above TDK as it STILL gives me chills in certain parts.(not many movies made these days do that for me) And it has nothing to do with nostalgia. Just while i think TDK was a great film but was WAY over hyped. But a lot of the kids here think it's the best movie Eva!

And if someone thinks GR or SM3 was the best superhero movie of all time well so be it.


Opinions can't be argued.

:peace

galactiboy
08-21-2008, 12:21 PM
1989 Batman. Still holds up well after almost 20yrs and no other comic book movie has come close to the frenzy it created. It made comic book movie history. TDK is a close second.

Thats right Coco... you and me representing the Other vote :rock

Dr.Mirakle32
08-21-2008, 12:30 PM
Superman, without a doubt.

Kuzeh
08-21-2008, 12:32 PM
My picks:

Spiderman 2
Superman 2
Batman
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight
Ironman
Superman
Spiderman
Batman Begins

Dr.Mirakle32
08-21-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm all for nostalgia but there is absolutely no way Superman is a better film than The Dark Knight. Superman is great, but as a film, it's not even close. None on this list are.

Super Hero movies:

1. The Dark Knight
2. Superman
2. Batman Begins
4. Iron Man
5. Superman II

Comic Movies:

1. The Dark Knight
2. American Splendor
3. History of Violence
4. Superman
4. Batman Begins



I'm just curious what makes TDK so untouchable in your opinion. I thought it was a very good, well made film, don't get me wrong, but I personally thought it wasn't exactly original, or groundbreaking on any level. Structurally, even TDK and BB owe alot to Superman the Movie, and Superman II.

wofford29
08-21-2008, 12:48 PM
I'm just curious what makes TDK so untouchable in your opinion. I thought it was a very good, well made film, don't get me wrong, but I personally thought it wasn't exactly original, or groundbreaking on any level. Structurally, even TDK and BB owe alot to Superman the Movie, and Superman II.

untouchable in the genre. In my opinion Superman just doesn't hold up well. Watching the movie now is like watching a Sam Raimi camp fest. It's good for what and when it was. I just don't think there is anything close to The Dark Knight in terms of prodction value, from the script, direction, cinematography, acting, and score. I think The Dark Knight will do for movies in this sub genre of film what The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen did for the comic world.

Dr.Mirakle32
08-21-2008, 12:57 PM
untouchable in the genre. In my opinion Superman just doesn't hold up well. Watching the movie now is like watching a Sam Raimi camp fest. It's good for what and when it was. I just don't think there is anything close to The Dark Knight in terms of prodction value, from the script, direction, cinematography, acting, and score. I think The Dark Knight will do for movies in this sub genre of film what The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen did for the comic world.

So? Sam Raimi's films are still entertaining. But I would disagree. I find the first Superman to be up there with the original Star Wars, Alien and Raiders of the Lost Ark, in terms of quality and age. It was the first well made comic book film to take the genre seriously. I think it is well-made, well-written, entertaining, and for me, it represents the DEFINITIVE Superman. It also donesn't feel like it is above the genre, and doesn't take the source material TOO seriously, like TDK did. At the end of the day, without Superman, there would be no DK.

wofford29
08-21-2008, 01:03 PM
So? Sam Raimi's films are still entertaining. But I would disagree. I find the first Superman to be up there with the original Star Wars, Alien and Raiders of the Lost Ark, in terms of quality and age. It was the first well made comic book film to take the genre seriously. I think it is well-made, well-written, entertaining, and for me, it represents the DEFINITIVE Superman. It also donesn't feel like it is above the genre, and doesn't take the source material TOO seriously, like TDK did. At the end of the day, without Superman, there would be no DK.

could not disagree more with everything you said, with the exception of TDK taking itself seriously. Which is why for me it sits alone. No harm in disagreeing.:peace

plasmid303
08-21-2008, 01:23 PM
So? Sam Raimi's films are still entertaining. But I would disagree. I find the first Superman to be up there with the original Star Wars, Alien and Raiders of the Lost Ark, in terms of quality and age. It was the first well made comic book film to take the genre seriously. I think it is well-made, well-written, entertaining, and for me, it represents the DEFINITIVE Superman. It also donesn't feel like it is above the genre, and doesn't take the source material TOO seriously, like TDK did. At the end of the day, without Superman, there would be no DK.

That's whats wrong with the whole "comic/superhero film" classification. You wouldn't claim a shakespeare or Poe film adaptation as taking the "source material too seriously" but that dubious label is thrown onto TDK like rice at a wedding. What happens when the Watchmen film comes out? I wonder how many people will say it takes the source material too seriously?

While I don't agree that TDK is the be-all, end-all of films in it's genre, the fact that it DOES take it's source material very seriously (which is fitting, the source material is fairly serious) is why TDK sits so high in regard.

Superman is incredible because it's a well made film and one of the very first films of it's kind to get it right. I loved it when I was a kid, and I'll always love it. TDK is great too.

DarkArtist81
08-21-2008, 01:39 PM
That's whats wrong with the whole "comic/superhero film" classification. You wouldn't claim a shakespeare or Poe film adaptation as taking the "source material too seriously" but that dubious label is thrown onto TDK like rice at a wedding. What happens when the Watchmen film comes out? I wonder how many people will say it takes the source material too seriously?


:clap:clap:clap:clap

Well said, and I agree 100%.

For me, it's TDK. But, my decision there is skewed a bit... due to the fact that Batman is my favorite all time comic hero and that is the best film portraying him and his world... at least in my mind.

Superman is another great film and right up there with TDK and BB on my list. But it doesn't connect with me as much as TDK did.

1: TDK
2: Batman Begins
3: Superman
4: Batman (1989)
5: Iron Man
6: V for Vendetta
7: Spider-Man 2

barbelith
08-21-2008, 03:00 PM
That's whats wrong with the whole "comic/superhero film" classification. You wouldn't claim a shakespeare or Poe film adaptation as taking the "source material too seriously" but that dubious label is thrown onto TDK like rice at a wedding.

Because in its quest to be "taken seriously" The Dark Knight loses sight of its source material and becomes something new. It's a great film but a terrible representation of Batman as a comic book superhero.

NASEDO
08-21-2008, 03:29 PM
I went with Spiderman. I haven't seen TDK yet. But I just watched Superman, it is up there but being so old the effects and suit can be "cheesy" at times, why not a reboot?

King Darkness
08-21-2008, 03:43 PM
I voted Other, Burtons '89 Batman is my fav.

Entropy
08-21-2008, 03:46 PM
WATCHMEN :rock

8th wonder
08-21-2008, 03:52 PM
Best probably: Richard Donner's first Superman movie

My favorite: Batman Returns

wofford29
08-21-2008, 04:14 PM
Because in its quest to be "taken seriously" The Dark Knight loses sight of its source material and becomes something new. It's a great film but a terrible representation of Batman as a comic book superhero.

Not sure what Batman comics you've been reading.

Voorhees27
08-21-2008, 04:17 PM
If I were to narrow it down to lets say a top 5 for me they would be:

1. TDK
2. Batman (1989)
3. BB
4. Superman
5. Ironman

barbelith
08-21-2008, 04:23 PM
Not sure what Batman comics you've been reading.

I can't think of a single Batman comic that fits the world Nolan has created except maybe Year One at a stretch. Certainly not DKR or any of the monthly comics. Just look at any discussion of the third film and see how many characters get instantly dismissed as not "working" in the Nolan universe. Or do you honestly expect we'll see Mr Freeze straight out of the comics and a Batman who regularly battles aliens alongside the Justice League?

No? All right then.

wofford29
08-21-2008, 04:31 PM
I can't think of a single Batman comic that fits the world Nolan has created except maybe Year One at a stretch. Certainly not DKR or any of the monthly comics. Just look at any discussion of the third film and see how many characters get instantly dismissed as not "working" in the Nolan universe. Or do you honestly expect we'll see Mr Freeze straight out of the comics and a Batman who regularly battles aliens alongside the Justice League?

No? All right then.


There's plenty of comics that fit the description. Just because a comic has a Killer Croc or Clayface in it doesn't mean the tone and the themes aren't the same. They don't have to be. But you bring up an even bigger issue in my opinion. How many writers have tackled a Batman story? How many artist have made an interpretation of the Bats? Why is there a double standard for a screenwriter or director having his story or vision? Because it's not on print doesn't invalidate it as a legitimate take on Batman. Source material is just that. A source with which one can draw inspiration from. I don't see watching Nolan's take on the Bat world any different than reading a Miller, Loeb, or Moore take on it.

Kuzeh
08-21-2008, 04:38 PM
I think that Spiderman 2 is the best translation from Comic to film,
and not going over the top like TDK which basically turned Batman into a Cover-up Conspirator Fugitive, far from a Super-Hero
It's a great movie, but I think Superman and Spiderman movies, even Burton's Batman kept the essence of the CLASSIC character way better.

barbelith
08-21-2008, 04:41 PM
Why is there a double standard for a screenwriter or director having his story or vision?

There's not. The Dark Knight is a great movie. It's just not a very good superhero movie - it doesn't even want to be a superhero movie, and we can see this in the way it does everything it can to distance itself from that milieu short of actually doing away with the cowl.

DinoLast
08-21-2008, 05:04 PM
I love most Superhero movies
I even think the directors cut of Daredevil is ok.
But my Top Favs are TDK, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins,Iron Man, Xmen and X2 and last but not least Unbreakable

wofford29
08-21-2008, 05:09 PM
There's not. The Dark Knight is a great movie. It's just not a very good superhero movie - it doesn't even want to be a superhero movie, and we can see this in the way it does everything it can to distance itself from that milieu short of actually doing away with the cowl.

When has Batman ever been a true superhero? Everything I've ever read he's just been a man in a mask fighting with gadgets. Oh well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

DinoLast
08-21-2008, 05:09 PM
I love most Superhero movies
I even think the directors cut of Daredevil is ok.
But my Top Favs are TDK, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins,Iron Man, Xmen and X2 and last but not least Unbreakable

Oh I forgot Superman 2 which I like even more than Superman

wofford29
08-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Superman II is on TV right now if anyone is interested. DirecTV

DinoLast
08-21-2008, 05:11 PM
When has Batman ever been a true superhero? Everything I've ever read he's just been a man in a mask fighting with gadgets. Oh well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Just like Iron Man

barbelith
08-21-2008, 05:14 PM
When has Batman ever been a true superhero?

Can you name five Batman comics which are 1:1 reflections of the Nolan universe? No, you can't, because Nolan is not making truly representative Batman movies. And that's fine. They're great movies. But the idea that they work as superhero movies verges on the hilarious.

Grange Wallis
08-21-2008, 05:15 PM
Superman: The Movie... It was the light that showed the way!

Grange Wallis
08-21-2008, 05:16 PM
...Followed by The Dark Knight really closely!

IrishJedi
08-21-2008, 06:20 PM
WATCHMEN :rock

:lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture

DarkArtist81
08-21-2008, 06:26 PM
Can you name five Batman comics which are 1:1 reflections of the Nolan universe? No, you can't, because Nolan is not making truly representative Batman movies. And that's fine. They're great movies. But the idea that they work as superhero movies verges on the hilarious.

You can't do that with ANY Batman films or superhero films at all... with the exception of Superman.

I guess it depends on what kind of Batman you like. He's been portrayed in MANY different styles and takes throughout his comic career... some more fantastical and some more realistic. "Snow" was a realistic take on the character and Mr. Freeze... Year One is almost exactly like Batman Begins, with the exception of the cloth costume being absent. Even All Star Batman and Robin, as well as Dark Knight Returns have aspects about them that resonate with the Nolan version of Batman.

It's not that much of a stretch. Certainly not as much liberty that has been taken with Spider-Man, the X-Men and others of the film genre...

Like I said at the beginning... it all depends on what you expect from a Batman tale. I prefer gritty over fantastical, personally....

wofford29
08-21-2008, 07:10 PM
Can you name five Batman comics which are 1:1 reflections of the Nolan universe? No, you can't, because Nolan is not making truly representative Batman movies. And that's fine. They're great movies. But the idea that they work as superhero movies verges on the hilarious.

What's your point? Earlier you said there shouldn't be a double standard between a screenwriters take on a Batman story and a comic writers take on the story, yet you continue to apply it. And again, when has Batman ever been a true superhero, why is that even a part of your arguement? Name me five Batman comics where Bruce Wayne was ever anything other than Bruce Wayne under a cowl. You can't, and the idea that there is a truly representative version of a character that has been written about for decades is what's hilarious.

Khev
08-21-2008, 07:39 PM
Yep, The Dark Knight is most certainly a superhero movie and IMO the best one ever made. I'd also put it in my top 10 films of *any* genre.

I'd say Batman Begins is the next "best" movie but Iron Man may be my second "favorite" overall.

Then the first Spider-Man then Superman: The Movie.

barbelith
08-21-2008, 07:51 PM
You can't do that with ANY Batman films or superhero films at all... with the exception of Superman.

I think you can do it for most superhero films, including many of the Batman films. I don't find Spider-Man to be the departure you seem to - certainly it's more representative of the comic book Spider-Man universe than the Nolan films are of Batman comics. When even Nolan point blank says the Penguin and Mr Freeze won't work in his universe, it becomes an inarguable point.


What's your point? Earlier you said there shouldn't be a double standard between a screenwriters take on a Batman story and a comic writers take on the story, yet you continue to apply it.

Nonsense. I've said repeatedly I think The Dark Knight is a great movie. But it's not representative of Batman comic books by any stretch of the imagination and therefore it's a bit silly holding it up as a superhero film. It's not a superhero film. It's a crime movie that does everything it can to delete superhero elements. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it makes for a good movie and audiences are unlikely to tolerate frozen villains and a friendship with Aquaman, not to mention Robin and Bat Mite. But those locked-off elements speak volumes about the distance between The Dark Knight and its four-color roots.

That's not a double standard. There's no judgment here. That's an observation.


Name me five Batman comics where Bruce Wayne was ever anything other than Bruce Wayne under a cowl.

This is irrelevant to my point. Why not reread what I wrote instead of propping up straw men?

Khev
08-21-2008, 08:05 PM
Barbelith I think it might help if you realized that many (possibly even most) people define a "superhero movie" as one that features a superhero as its protagonist. It doesn't have to be a literal translation of a four-color comic book. Batman is considered a superhero so there you go.

The Dark Knight represents his character just fine. The universe he inhabits in the comics is ever changing. Nolan's universe is more in line with "Elseworlds" than Justice League, out of continuity but still representative of the character and his approach to dealing with conflict.

wofford29
08-21-2008, 08:28 PM
I think you can do it for most superhero films, including many of the Batman films. I don't find Spider-Man to be the departure you seem to - certainly it's more representative of the comic book Spider-Man universe than the Nolan films are of Batman comics. When even Nolan point blank says the Penguin and Mr Freeze won't work in his universe, it becomes an inarguable point.



Nonsense. I've said repeatedly I think The Dark Knight is a great movie. But it's not representative of Batman comic books by any stretch of the imagination and therefore it's a bit silly holding it up as a superhero film. It's not a superhero film. It's a crime movie that does everything it can to delete superhero elements. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it makes for a good movie and audiences are unlikely to tolerate frozen villains and a friendship with Aquaman, not to mention Robin and Bat Mite. But those locked-off elements speak volumes about the distance between The Dark Knight and its four-color roots.

That's not a double standard. There's no judgment here. That's an observation.



This is irrelevant to my point. Why not reread what I wrote instead of propping up straw men?


I'm sorry, but you keep double talking. You're getting lost in your own arguement. It's obvious you don't understand the Batman character or the tone of his stories. Batman has never been a superhero, don't know how much more clearly I could state that. He's a regular guy with a lot of gadgets. He's been that in all his comics, and he's been that in all his movies. The only point of arguement is whether or not Nolan's Batman films are representitive of the character, and they without a doubt capture the tone and the essence of the character of Batman. You can keep talking about fantastical comic book villians that won't fit in Nolan's films, but there's no point because it's not about a Killer Croc, it's about the Batman. Irregardless none of it matters because of my original point though. It's Nolan's take on the Bat world, his story is just as important to the character as anything in print. You say you're not applying the double standard but everything you keep posting is doing just that. For some reason to you Batman is all about what surronds him rather than the tone of the character himself.

Khev
08-21-2008, 09:17 PM
You can't forget this Spider-Man. Featuring Morgan Freeman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLpfF-O1HW4&feature=related

tomandshell
08-21-2008, 09:23 PM
I feel bad that Incredible Hulk has the same number of votes as Ghost Rider.

Dr.Mirakle32
08-21-2008, 09:25 PM
You can't forget this Spider-Man. Featuring Morgan Freeman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLpfF-O1HW4&feature=related

That was ^^^^ed up on so many levels...

jml969
08-21-2008, 09:30 PM
1. TDK
2.BB
3. Superman the Movie
4.Spiderman 2
5. Iron Man
6.X-men movies
7. Incredible Hulk

Malice
08-21-2008, 11:06 PM
TDK
IRONMAN

plasmid303
08-22-2008, 12:24 AM
Nonsense. I've said repeatedly I think The Dark Knight is a great movie. But it's not representative of Batman comic books by any stretch of the imagination and therefore it's a bit silly holding it up as a superhero film. It's not a superhero film. It's a crime movie that does everything it can to delete superhero elements. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it makes for a good movie and audiences are unlikely to tolerate frozen villains and a friendship with Aquaman, not to mention Robin and Bat Mite. But those locked-off elements speak volumes about the distance between The Dark Knight and its four-color roots.



The term "superhero" is, in the past and present, both concrete and elusive. What defines a superhero movie? And by extension the themes or elements thereof? What constitutes the essential core of a superhero film? While I feel like your comments above are a fair assessment about some of TDK's flaws, I don't see how the film does "everything it can to delete superhero elements." TDK follows the traditional trappings of classic superhero stories but is not limited to them; it pays homage to the unspoken rules of superhero-dom but isn't weighed down by them but instead extends it's reach to other genres i.e. the epic crime drama in a very real, very familiar world where the very notion of a masked avenger/vigilante is all but intangible.

I think it fits. Year One laid the template for Batman Begins.The Long Halloween was predominantly an epic crime story that featured Batman as a detective. Very few of the villains in The Long Halloween had an outlandish power and could more or less fit in a Nolan Bat-movie. Batman in TDK went about solving and fighting crimes in a similar matter as in the grittier, more realistic Batman comics, using his gadgets and deductive abilities before opening a can of whoop ass on villains. I don't see how it's any different here, save the absence of some of the more silly villains (Killer Croc, Freeze, etc)

Comparing TDK to the lighter Batman fare of the 60's and 70's is like comparing the contemporary Superman films to the comics and cartoon shows in which Supes is battling giant aliens or a villain made of metal...ever notice how often Superman is pitted against Lex Luthor (whose only real power is his intelligence) in the films?

What I'm trying to say is that there is nothing locked-off in the Batman universe that Nolan couldn't possibly use. I mentioned Killer Croc earlier. Have you seen the recent Batman: Gotham Knight dvd? In one of the stories on the disc Killer Croc is featured as a psychotic killer with a rare skin disorder and sharp teeth he ground himself (if I remember right). The fact that Batman: Gotham Knight was made to bridge the thematic gap between BB and TDK (although it wasn't fully successful) goes to show that Nolan's Bat-universe can go anywhere without betraying the core of Batman's character and world. (If you want that then by all means read All Star Batman & Robin)

Speaking of Batman's roots, didn't Batman kill the bad guys and carry a gun in the earliest comics? Those aspects about Batman were dropped as the comics and films evolved but still kept the essence of the Batman character in its entirety. I don't see how The Dark Knight has bucked that trend.

The Mike
08-22-2008, 12:35 AM
I feel bad that Incredible Hulk has the same number of votes as Ghost Rider.

I loved Norton's Hulk but I wouldn't classify it as the best Superhero of all time. I voted Iron Man, to me that was a classic Superhero film, fun with the real feel of a Comic Book brought to life.

The Dark Knight, for me was much more than a Superhero film. It transends that pigeonhole completely and is on the level of thrillers and crime dramas as much as it is with other Comic films. TDK was so good IMHO that it doesn't even classify as a Superhero film anymore.

SpawnFan
08-22-2008, 02:28 AM
I loved Norton's Hulk but I wouldn't classify it as the best Superhero of all time. I voted Iron Man, to me that was a classic Superhero film, fun with the real feel of a Comic Book brought to life.

The Dark Knight, for me was much more than a Superhero film. It transends that pigeonhole completely and is on the level of thrillers and crime dramas as much as it is with other Comic films. TDK was so good IMHO that it doesn't even classify as a Superhero film anymore.

Too bad some guy fighting comicbook villains has to bring it back to its level. ;)

I voted The Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2 and Iron Man are both amazing but they are inferior to the awesomeness of The Dark Knight!

IrishJedi
08-22-2008, 08:21 AM
Hype and newness aside, do that many people REALLY think that TDK is that much better than everything else?

King Darkness
08-22-2008, 08:24 AM
Do that many people REALLY think that TDK is that much better than everything else?

Me thinks not. The hype is has SOOO many people by the balls.

A lot of people probably aren't even sure why they like the movie so much.

IrishJedi
08-22-2008, 08:26 AM
I'm thinking the same. I mean the movie is damn good... but a lot of people are just going crazy over it.

wofford29
08-22-2008, 08:27 AM
Hype and newness aside, do that many people REALLY think that TDK is that much better than everything else?

It has nothing to do with the hype for me. It's just that much better. Like I said earlier. It'll do for the subgenre of film what TDK Returns and Watchemen did for the comic world.

IrishJedi
08-22-2008, 08:33 AM
We're now comparing the artistic impact of this movie to undisputed masterpieces like The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen?

Wow.

Doesn't this kind of prove my point?

screamingmetal
08-22-2008, 08:50 AM
My list (excluding Non-Superhero comic book movies like 300):

Iron Man
Superman 1 & 2 (tie)
Batman: The Dark Knight
Spider-Man 2
The Crow
Blade 1 & 2 (tie)
Spider-Man 1
The Incredible Hulk
The Rocketeer
Hellboy 1 & 2 (tie)
X-Men 2
X-Men 1

wofford29
08-22-2008, 08:50 AM
We're now comparing the artistic impact of this movie to undisputed masterpieces like The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen?

Wow.

Doesn't this kind of prove my point?

Nope, only your point to try and be different when the vast majority of people will disagree, including the douche bag critics. There has never been a movie in this genre that has had as much box office success, or critical success, or for people like you hype behind it. The fact that you feel the need to even come in here and discuss how incredible the hype is should say something about it. If you don't get it that's cool, but when it's so overwhelmingly obvious you're in the very small minority, there really isn't a point in discussing it's merits when the evidence is so skewed to one side.

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 09:48 AM
I'm thinking the same. I mean the movie is damn good... but a lot of people are just going crazy over it.

I find that it is mostly the youngins that are going CRAZY over it. (18-25 ish) I said MOSTLY! And hardcore batfans.

I don't really get it either, i loved the film. But it was not the second coming that some are making it out to be.

barbelith
08-22-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm sorry, but you keep double talking. You're getting lost in your own arguement.

Nope. You're simply not following my argument.


The only point of arguement is whether or not Nolan's Batman films are representitive of the character, and they without a doubt capture the tone and the essence of the character of Batman.

I'm not so sure they do. They certainly don't capture the tone and the essence of the Batman universe. But as to Batman himself? He's not just a guy with gadgets. He's the world's greatest detective ... not that you would know it from a Nolan film (or to be fair any of the Batman films).


It's Nolan's take on the Bat world, his story is just as important to the character as anything in print. You say you're not applying the double standard but everything you keep posting is doing just that.

Are you illiterate?

barbelith
08-22-2008, 10:32 AM
There has never been a movie in this genre that has had as much box office success, or critical success, or for people like you hype behind it.

Putting your schizophrenia re: critics to one side for a moment, I would just like to point out that adjusted for inflation the 1989 Batman had a bigger box office and that if we take your argument to its logical conclusion you must agree Britney Spears is a musician beyond reproach.

It's interesting (but not unexpected) that your response is an ad hominem rather than actually answering the question. If The Dark Knight is so clearly a masterpiece it should be simple enough for you to demonstrate why. So perhaps you can tell us why you think The Dark Knight will do for film what Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns did for comics?

Batty
08-22-2008, 10:33 AM
A few of my top favorites:

1. Batman (1989)
2. Superman
3. The Dark Knight
4. Batman Begins
5. Iron Man
6. V for Vendetta
7. Spider-man 2
8. Superman II
9. Hellboy
10. X-Men

Other great non-superhero comic book movies:

Sin City
300
American Splendor
Crumb
Ghost World

wofford29
08-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Putting your schizophrenia re: critics to one side for a moment, I would just like to point out that adjusted for inflation the 1989 Batman had a bigger box office and that if we take your argument to its logical conclusion you must agree Britney Spears is a musician beyond reproach.

It's interesting (but not expected) that your response is an ad hominem rather than actually answering the question. If The Dark Knight is so clearly a masterpiece it should be simple enough for you to demonstrate why.



Wow. You must really love Britney and American Idol.


No point in responding to you anymore. You're obviously to immature to have a legitimate conversation, and not intelligent enough to follow your own arguement, let alone participate in another. It's okay though, you'll always have your Uwe Boll movies.

edit: Just to clear things up though, and I'm not surprised with your misinformation, but TDK is well ahead of the original once you adjust for inflation. With many more weeks to go.

TOE
08-22-2008, 10:36 AM
For me, ROBOCOP.

The Mike
08-22-2008, 10:40 AM
Which one did you vote for Irish?

barbelith
08-22-2008, 10:51 AM
You're obviously to immature to have a legitimate conversation, and not intelligent enough to follow your own arguement, let alone participate in another.

Another interesting yet not unexpected response, one that as usual sees you posturing without actually addressing the points raised. One suspects this is because you are indeed incapable of explaining why The Dark Knight is a cinematic masterpiece and because even you realize the folly of your box office argument once Britney Spears throws it into sharp relief.

You are however partly correct about the box office. I had forgotten to include this week's take for The Dark Knight, which puts it roughly $30 million ahead of the 1989 Batman adjusted for inflation. Not exactly "well ahead" in percentages but of course you were guessing there anyway. :)

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 10:57 AM
Drop it PEOPLE!!

For ^^^^s sake already!!

wofford29
08-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Drop it PEOPLE!!

For ^^^^s sake already!!

Sorry, sometimes a vinegar sack permeates the thread.

barbelith
08-22-2008, 11:09 AM
Drop it PEOPLE!

Aren't you interested to hear someone finally explain why The Dark Knight is a masterpiece? This place has a bizarre relationship with disagreement.

wofford29
08-22-2008, 11:12 AM
Aren't you interested to hear someone finally explain why The Dark Knight is a masterpiece? This place has a bizarre relationship with disagreement.

There's plenty of that in THE DARK KNIGHT thread.

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 11:12 AM
That it does, but jesus man you guys have been going back and forth since yesterday move on.

barbelith
08-22-2008, 11:15 AM
There's plenty of that in THE DARK KNIGHT thread.

I'll quote this there and you can explain it to us in that thread. :)

wofford29
08-22-2008, 11:19 AM
I'll quote this there and you can explain it to us in that thread. :)

I as well as many others have done so at least a month ago just read through the thread. I in fact touched on it earlier in this very thread. I just don't think there is another film that transcends this subgenre like the Dark Knight. From the script, the direction, the acting, the mature content, the score, and the cinematography, I just don't think there is a better film in this category. I don't think the film is perfect. It's just closer than everything else listed here.

barbelith
08-22-2008, 11:22 AM
I as well as many others have done so at least a month ago just read through the thread. I in fact touched on it earlier in this very thread. I just don't think there is another film that transcends this subgenre like the Dark Knight.

I've set this up in the Dark Knight thread. I'd like to see a critical analysis because all I've seen (including in your post right here) is a thesis without textual support. I know from recent comments I am not the only person who would appreciate someone actually building a case rather than making an empty list.

Batty
08-22-2008, 11:33 AM
I've set this up in the Dark Knight thread. I'd like to see a critical analysis because all I've seen (including in your post right here) is a thesis without textual support. I know from recent comments I am not the only person who would appreciate someone actually building a case rather than making an empty list.

Why? Is the movie on trail or something?

barbelith
08-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Why? Is the movie on trail or something?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discussion

Batty
08-22-2008, 12:07 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discussion

Ha! Ha! I love the internets.


Why? Is the movie on trail or something?

Hey, look- I put "trail" instead of "trial." :lol

IrishJedi
08-22-2008, 07:54 PM
I don't think the film is perfect. It's just closer than everything else listed here.

Then don't make comparisons to "The Dark Knight Returns" and "Watchmen", which are masterpieces.

I'm just waiting to see if people can like this movie without fawning all over it gratiutously. And if someone even questions it slightly, it's hell to pay. It's like the media and Barack Obama. :lol

wofford29
08-22-2008, 08:00 PM
Then don't make comparisons to "The Dark Knight Returns" and "Watchmen", which are masterpieces.

I'm just waiting to see if people can like this movie without fawning all over it gratiutously. And if someone even questions it slightly, it's hell to pay. It's like the media and Barack Obama. :lol

The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen still have their flaws, that doesn't mean they're not masterpieces. The comparison is simply the influence each had and will have on their medium. Only time will tell though. A good indicator is that they're already talking about trying to make the reboot of Superman a dark film.

EVILFACE
08-22-2008, 08:04 PM
I've set this up in the Dark Knight thread. I'd like to see a critical analysis because all I've seen (including in your post right here) is a thesis without textual support. I know from recent comments I am not the only person who would appreciate someone actually building a case rather than making an empty list.

So it's wrong if someone considered TDK to be the best superhero flick to them?

Best is and always will be subjective.

IrishJedi
08-22-2008, 08:07 PM
The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen still have their flaws, that doesn't mean they're not masterpieces.
Really? What are their objective flaws?


The comparison is simply the influence each had and will have on their medium. Only time will tell though.
Right. So why put the cart before the horse, then? The books you've used as your comparison have been around for over two decades. They've earned their reputations as true masterpieces. TDK has barely been out for a month and you want to ascend it it that level, even while admitting that it's imperfect? Crazy talk, I say. Which takes me back to my original point: many people clearly need to wait to come down from the clouds before they truly can rank this film objectively.

This is how backlashes are born, folks.



A good indicator is that they're already talking about trying to make the reboot of Superman a dark film.

Uh, that would be a negative impact, imho. Superman should not ever be as "dark" as Batman.

wofford29
08-22-2008, 08:07 PM
So it's wrong if someone considered TDK to be the best superhero flick to them?

Best is and always will be subjective.

I believe he said X2. Without explanation of course. Everyone else must write a disertation about why they have their opinion though.

wofford29
08-22-2008, 08:29 PM
Really? What are their objective flaws?

There is really no point in arguing over something like that. Just because something has flaws doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. But just to throw one out there... the lack of character development. Moore is a great writer of ideas, but not of people. At the end of reading Watchmen I find myself asking more who I'd believe in this world, not who I relate to. That's not a bad thing, but IMO I think it's a flaw to have the anatomy of a character remain stagnant throughout a story. Again, I still believe it's a masterpiece though and don't think you should nit pick at flaws in something like this.



Right. So why put the cart before the horse? The books you've used as your comparison have been around for over two decades. They've EARNED their reputations as true masterpieces. TDK has barely been out for a month and you want to ascend it it that level, even while admitting that it's imperfect? Crazy talk, I say. Which takes me back to my original point... many people need to wait to come down from the clouds before they truly can rank this film objectively.

I couldn't agree with you more that the hype is absurd and it will be interesting to see who's on the bandwagon and who really feels this way years from now. For me however that doesn't factor in. It's just my opinon, and it's not exactly as hard or as time restrictive as you're making it out to be. I just feel that it's light years better than anything else in the subgenre of "superhero" films. It's not a perfect movie. It's closer than anything else in it's genre though. TDKR and Watchmen redefined the comic world that was stale and had been around since the 20-30s. It's influence was felt immediately as was it's critical reception and fanfare, hell I'll be honest, the only reason I picked either up back then was because of the hype and praise surronding them. It's not something that took until 2008 to recognize. After the box office draw, the critical and fan reception The Dark Knight had you honestly don't think that it's influecne is going to be felt throughout the industry very similiar to the way those two novels immediately influenced the comic world?



Uh, that would be a negative impact, imho. Superman should not ever be as "dark" as Batman.

I didn't say it would be positive, I'm using it as an example of the influence TDK is already having in the genre of film it's classified under. Without TDKs success there's no way in hell anyone would pitch a dark Superman movie and be taken seriously. I'm simply pointing out that it's influece is starting whether we want it to or not.

barbelith
08-22-2008, 10:24 PM
After the box office draw, the critical and fan reception The Dark Knight had you honestly don't think that it's influecne is going to be felt throughout the industry very similiar to the way those two novels immediately influenced the comic world?

Titanic didn't. But The Dark Knight is interesting because the 1989 Batman had a similar cultural impact that managed to last all of one film.


Without TDKs success there's no way in hell anyone would pitch a dark Superman movie and be taken seriously.

I'm not sure why you think this. The Dark Knight simply builds on Batman Begins, which was able to be made "dark" because of the reception of many of the Marvel movies before it which took their premises seriously. X-Men begins in a concentration camp. It's been a natural progression, not a groundswell.

Only an idiot would propose a "dark" Superman film and the influence of The Dark Knight is likely to last until December, when The Spirit bombs. The first major DC misfire will be the nail in the coffin there. The proper legacy of The Dark Knight is "take it seriously" but of course comic book films have been doing that on and off for 19 years now.

But this is a bit of a red herring anyway, because the reason The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were groundbreaking masterpieces that changed comic book storytelling wasn't because they were dark. That's what the hacks took from them, and it looks like that's what the hacks are taking from The Dark Knight, too.

The Mike
08-22-2008, 10:52 PM
Uh, that would be a negative impact, imho. Superman should not ever be as "dark" as Batman.

While this conversation has gone seriously three fold I had to chime in on this point. Irish is 100% right on this mark, Superman is effectively the polar opposite to Bruce which makes their team ups slightly more interesting because neither understands how the other can operate under those guises, Clark positive or optimistic and Bruce always so negative or grounded in reality. Any dark Superman film would have to focus on the villain being this way or else they are changing the character completely, IMHO and really not portraying what should be on screen.

Not that any of you said that or that it shouldn't be this way I just wanted to add my two pennies.

wofford29
08-22-2008, 11:21 PM
Titanic didn't. But The Dark Knight is interesting because the 1989 Batman had a similar cultural impact that managed to last all of one film.

And what film might Titanic have had the chance to influence? All the other cruise line movies? Perhaps "Boat Trip"? Or maybe Rosie's Gay Cruise documentary?




I'm not sure why you think this. The Dark Knight simply builds on Batman Begins, which was able to be made "dark" because of the reception of many of the Marvel movies before it which took their premises seriously. X-Men begins in a concentration camp. It's been a natural progression, not a groundswell.

I'm not sure why you think X-men is dark or mature. Everyone I've seen plays out like a teeny bopper angst film. I will agree with you on the progression though, because that's only natural. The Dark Knight just capitalized on it the best.


Only an idiot would propose a "dark" Superman film and the influence of The Dark Knight is likely to last until December, when The Spirit bombs. The first major DC misfire will be the nail in the coffin there. The proper legacy of The Dark Knight is "take it seriously" but of course comic book films have been doing that on and off for 19 years now.

Call DC up and tell them. I'm just reporting the news. I'm not sure what the Spirit has to due with The Dark Knight's lasting appeal or influence. I guess Iron Man's success followed up by the Hulk's bomb will completely erase all other Marvel efforts? And I'm still waiting for you to explain what films deal with more mature themes and subject matter over these past 19 years.


But this is a bit of a red herring anyway, because the reason The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were groundbreaking masterpieces that changed comic book storytelling wasn't because they were dark. That's what the hacks took from them, and it looks like that's what the hacks are taking from The Dark Knight, too.

I'm not sure anyone ever equated their success to them being dark.

barbelith
08-23-2008, 09:13 AM
And what film might Titanic have had the chance to influence?

Every other epic romance picture.


I'm not sure why you think X-men is dark or mature.

I didn't say X-Men was dark. If you don't think X2 is a mature film that takes its premise and themes seriously then fair enough.


Call DC up and tell them.

Why would I do that?


I'm not sure what the Spirit has to due with The Dark Knight's lasting appeal or influence.

The Spirit is a "dark" take on material that should not be dark. It looks ridiculous and is likely to bomb. Batman is a relatively unique case among superheroes in terms of being able to carry this sort of presentation. We already see WB is taking the wrong lesson from The Dark Knight and when that backfires they're hardly likely to go back and pick out the right ones.


I guess Iron Man's success followed up by the Hulk's bomb will completely erase all other Marvel efforts?

Do you know The Incredible Hulk's budget and worldwide box office?


And I'm still waiting for you to explain what films deal with more mature themes and subject matter over these past 19 years.

In which case you clearly haven't been paying attention.


I'm not sure anyone ever equated their success to them being dark.

So you aren't familiar with late '80s/early '90s comics then.

I've had a lot of patience with you, but I'm bowing out now. There's no point in having an intellectual discussion with an unarmed man and frankly you seem to lack any sort of context or grounding for these topics. Enjoy your toys.

wofford29
08-23-2008, 09:37 AM
Every other epic romance picture.



I didn't say X-Men was dark. If you don't think X2 is a mature film that takes its premise and themes seriously then fair enough.



Why would I do that?



The Spirit is a "dark" take on material that should not be dark. It looks ridiculous and is likely to bomb. Batman is a relatively unique case among superheroes in terms of being able to carry this sort of presentation. We already see WB is taking the wrong lesson from The Dark Knight and when that backfires they're hardly likely to go back and pick out the right ones.



Do you know The Incredible Hulk's budget and worldwide box office?



In which case you clearly haven't been paying attention.



So you aren't familiar with late '80s/early '90s comics then.

I've had a lot of patience with you, but I'm bowing out now. There's no point in having an intellectual discussion with an unarmed man and frankly you seem to lack any sort of context or grounding for these topics. Enjoy your toys.


Keep the excuses flowing. It's all you're good for. Insults come easy to the insecure.

Voorhees27
08-23-2008, 12:52 PM
Holy macorel, this feud is still a goin'?

customizerwannabe
08-23-2008, 01:26 PM
Iron Man for me. TDK was great but it's been done before. IM broke some molds. Wofford and Barb need to get a room.

IrishJedi
08-23-2008, 01:33 PM
Iron Man for me. TDK was great but it's been done before. IM broke some molds.

You are so gonna hear it from the TDKids.


:lol

EVILFACE
08-23-2008, 01:37 PM
You are so gonna hear it from the TDKids.


:lol

Why?

IM was fantastic except for the weak final battle. That is why it is not tops in my book. The ending was as exciting as the 45 second showdown in Fantastic Four.

uscmhicks
08-23-2008, 01:39 PM
Why?

IM was fantastic except for the weak final battle. That is why it is not tops in my book. The ending was as exciting as the 45 second showdown in Fantastic Four.

I don't think it was that exciting. :lol:lol

Anyway , I don't think I have even chimed in on this.
For me it will probably change all time time but if I type now its like this.

1. The Dark Knight / Iron man

2. Batman Begins

3. Spiderman 2 / 1

4. Xmen 1 & 2

5. Probably hellboy.... I dunno .. I don't have anything really for many other superhero movies.
Is hellboy even a superhero ?. :lol

carbo-fation
08-23-2008, 03:49 PM
All people need to know is, when it comes to the best comic book movies, DC owns.:D

CelticPredator
08-23-2008, 04:18 PM
Sorta. Out of DC I only like the Batman films. I like more Marvel films then DC. Spider-Man is one of my favorite hero movies of all time. I love it. Before TDK came, it was my number 1. You can attack me all ya wants to, but I think the film is amazing.

Voorhees27
08-23-2008, 08:59 PM
Sorta. Out of DC I only like the Batman films. I like more Marvel films then DC. Spider-Man is one of my favorite hero movies of all time. I love it. Before TDK came, it was my number 1. You can attack me all ya wants to, but I think the film is amazing.

I would have to agree as well, I can't think of anything outside of the Batman movies that is all that great for DC films. I love the Spiderman movies too, hell even part 3 that everyone seems to hate.

OSCORP
08-23-2008, 09:01 PM
I agree guys Spider-Man was a very good movie. (and SM3 wasn't as bad as some fanboys/haters would have you believe. But it did not live up to the hype thats for sure) SM1 has that special something!! As does it's sequel.

customizerwannabe
08-23-2008, 09:15 PM
All people need to know is, when it comes to the best comic book movies, DC owns.:D

After Batman what does DC own? Superman??:rotfl
Marvel is King. Undisputed and (TDK aside)pretty much unchallenged.

customizerwannabe
08-23-2008, 09:19 PM
Why?

IM was fantastic except for the weak final battle. That is why it is not tops in my book. The ending was as exciting as the 45 second showdown in Fantastic Four.

Agreed. Final battle sucked nuts. Other than that, the movie was outstanding. Much as I like Bale, he is stiff as Bruce Wayne. I dunno, maybe the character demands it. Downey made a much better impression out from behind the mask than Bale does IMO. Must be the liberating attitude one gets after having consumed so many drugs and so much alcohol. He IS Tony Stark.:D

CelticPredator
08-23-2008, 10:21 PM
I hate Spider-Man 3. But I love Spider-Man. Spider-Man 2 is just as good.

X-2 is amazing, Iron Man is great, Blade 1-2 are fun, uh...hmm.....what else am I missing?

Curt
08-23-2008, 11:36 PM
you forgot blade

Giant Chicken
08-24-2008, 02:09 AM
BEST MOVIES

1) TIE --- TDK and Batman (1989)
2) Iron Man
3) TIE --- BB and Batman Returns
4) Incredible Hulk
5) TIE --- Xmen and X2
6) Batman Forever (think I liked it because of all the hype. I was really into this movie in my early teens.)

GOOD MOVIES but not in my top list

7) Superman
8) Superman Returns
9) Spiderman

OKAY MOVIES (watchable)

10) Spiderman 2
11) Fantastic Four
12) Daredevil (had its crap moments)

CRAP MOVIES

13) Ghost Rider
14) Punisher
15) Xmen: Last Stand (well made movie - bad story)

HORRIBLE MOVIES (Never want to see them again)
16) Elektra
17) Hulk
18) TIE --- Spiderman 3 and Batman & Robin



Note: I have never seen Superman 2-4 or FF2-Silver Surfer

Khev
08-24-2008, 05:58 AM
Why?

IM was fantastic except for the weak final battle. That is why it is not tops in my book. The ending was as exciting as the 45 second showdown in Fantastic Four.

Yep. After Transformers you just can't have a finale with two robotic looking guys fighting for a couple of minutes and have it leave much of an impression. IM also loses points for yielding to the annoying tendency to have the hero find a reason to take his mask off during the climax. The two seconds they were fighting in traffic was cool though.

Shai
08-24-2008, 07:53 AM
I FOR ONE DIDNT LIKE THE DARK KNIGHT...THE BATMAN WAS LIKE A SECONDARY CHARACTER...AND THIS MOVIE TOOK ITSELF WAY TOO SERIOUSLY..AS A MOVIE,BB WAS BETTER...BUT THIS IS OF COURSE MY OPINION.ALL THOSE PRO DK PEOPLE WERE SAYIN THIS MOVIE WOULD BE THE GREATEST SUPER HERO MOVIE EVER EVEN BEFORE ITS RELEASE..SO THEIR BIASED OPINIONS ARE IRRELEVANT FOR ME...

Now, for me the greatest comic book adaptation, was sin city...its just better than anything else...

carbo-fation
08-24-2008, 07:54 AM
After Batman what does DC own? Superman??:rotfl
Marvel is King. Undisputed and (TDK aside)pretty much unchallenged.

That's entirely subjective. I'd rate Superman 1, 2 and SR over many Marvel movies.:huh

wofford29
08-24-2008, 08:56 AM
That's entirely subjective. I'd rate Superman 1, 2 and SR over many Marvel movies.:huh

I'd rate Superman 1, 2, Batman 89, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and soon to be the Watchmen as the best stable of superhero films. The only Marvel films I've ever enjoyed or thought were decent movies were Iron Man and Ang Lee's Hulk.

customizerwannabe
08-24-2008, 09:01 AM
Now, for me the greatest comic book adaptation, was sin city...its just better than anything else...

A strong case could be made there. Excellent flick!!!!

Dr.Mirakle32
08-25-2008, 08:57 PM
That's whats wrong with the whole "comic/superhero film" classification. You wouldn't claim a shakespeare or Poe film adaptation as taking the "source material too seriously" but that dubious label is thrown onto TDK like rice at a wedding. What happens when the Watchmen film comes out? I wonder how many people will say it takes the source material too seriously?


Having just read WATCHMEN, I disagree. Despite the powerful message, and deep themes, the book was filled with both realistic, and tounge-in-cheek humor. Compared to the mood of the WATCHMEN book, TDK just comes off as morose.

CelticPredator
08-26-2008, 05:43 AM
The end is quite uplifting. TDK's that is.

Kuzeh
08-26-2008, 11:01 AM
Holy macorel, this feud is still a goin'?

Yeah no kidding...
Funny thing is that... people that are "zombified" by TDK won't budge...
neither will the "haters"...

Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Ironman movies all have great characters and villains and stories, it's pointless to debate which one is better...:rolleyes:

Malice
08-26-2008, 11:09 AM
Yeah no kidding...
Funny thing is that... people that are "zombified" by TDK won't budge...
neither will the "haters"...

Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Ironman movies all have great characters and villains and stories, it's pointless to debate which one is better...:rolleyes:

:lecture.............

BXCOLLECTOR
08-26-2008, 01:02 PM
it has to be iron man

BXCOLLECTOR
08-26-2008, 01:04 PM
TDK was only good because of the joker

wofford29
08-26-2008, 04:37 PM
TDK was only good because of the joker

And Iron Man was only barely good because of Robert Downey Jr.

barbelith
08-26-2008, 04:49 PM
TDK was only good because of the joker


And Iron Man was only barely good because of Robert Downey Jr.

You both speak the truth. Remove those performances and the two movies are nothing special.

CelticPredator
08-26-2008, 06:25 PM
Hahahah! No. No no no. Yes, Iron Man was amazing, and a big part of the reason WAS Downey, however, the movie had a great story, with great characters, action was minimal, but still.

The Dark Knight was good period. Regardless WHO played the Joker, it STILL would've been great, because Nolan can direct, and the script was all there. Yes Ledger's Joker was amazing, and yes it did make the movie more popular, but it was because the ^^^^ing JOKER was in the movie. Most comic book fans LOVE the Joker. So no matter who played Mister J, the hype would've built regardless.

barbelith
08-26-2008, 07:16 PM
So no matter who played Mister J, the hype would've built regardless.

A weak performance would have given The Dark Knight a $250 million ceiling. Everything in that movie revolves around the Joker and it's a role that would have completely fallen apart in less skilled hands. Nobody really talks about Harvey. Nobody at all talks about Batman. The audience is there to see a recently dead rising star give a breakout performance.

Remove the Joker and the movie is no real improvement over Batman Begins. It's a good film, but over-hyped beyond belief. (And seemingly always by its youngest viewers. Go figure! :))

CelticPredator
08-26-2008, 07:55 PM
Yes.....the hype was around THE JOKER. Character, like I said, no matter who played him, people woulda still wanted to see it.

And sorry the movie is just so damn good. Not my fault. Blame Nolan.

barbelith
08-26-2008, 08:17 PM
Yes.....the hype was around THE JOKER. Character, like I said, no matter who played him, people woulda still wanted to see it.

Sure. But you don't get a box office like this without repeat business. A weaker performance would have meant a lower box office. It's a good movie, but without Ledger it's nothing special, and that's one reason there are better candidates for "best superhero movie." In a few years when the hype dies down we'll get a more accurate reappraisal.

bumblebee
08-28-2008, 01:28 PM
Batman Begins.

screamingmetal
08-28-2008, 02:01 PM
Hahahah! No. No no no. Yes, Iron Man was amazing, and a big part of the reason WAS Downey, however, the movie had a great story, with great characters, action was minimal, but still.

The Dark Knight was good period. Regardless WHO played the Joker, it STILL would've been great, because Nolan can direct, and the script was all there. Yes Ledger's Joker was amazing, and yes it did make the movie more popular, but it was because the ^^^^ing JOKER was in the movie. Most comic book fans LOVE the Joker. So no matter who played Mister J, the hype would've built regardless.

Yep, I think the weakest part of Iron Man was the more formulaic story and weak Villain, even though I thought Jeff Bridges performed very well, the character seemed a little too generic, especially when compared to Ledger's Joker.
But overall I like Iron Man a lot more because it felt a bit more exciting, fun, and upbeat.

OSCORP
09-03-2008, 07:19 PM
I'm surprised that IM is ahead of Superman the movie. Well IM was a great flick.

Here's my list.

Superman the movie (nothing beats it for me) (10/10)
IM (8.5/10)
TDK (8.5/10)
Spider-Man 1 (8/10)
Superman 2 (8/10)
X-men 1 (7/10)

Those are my faves, i like others but those are my top choices.

And for the record i thought GR was a damn fun movie. (7/10) Maybe cause i've never read the comic, but i enjoyed it.

Ven
09-03-2008, 09:42 PM
i kinda want to take my vote back.. I voted TDK but want to vote Batman Begins..

The Tuggernaut
09-03-2008, 09:51 PM
Iron Man number 1 :D
TDK number 2 :mad:
(dont get me wrong, TDK was a fantastic film... but Iron Man was just that lttle more fantastic IMO)

OSCORP
12-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Bump cause i can

FLOSI
12-17-2009, 05:50 PM
Superman 2... I don't know if it's the "best" but it's my favorite.

OSCORP
12-17-2009, 05:51 PM
Nothing beats STM for me

FLOSI
12-17-2009, 05:59 PM
Nothing beats STM for me

Love the first one too.... I grab my son and hold him like he's flying while doing my best rendition of the John Williams score.... For me it the first two were the films I loved as a kid, along with Star Wars and Indy.... My brother is about 4 years younger then me so he was into the Batman 1 and 2. I still think it's all about what grabbed your imagination when you were a child.... TDK and Ironman and all the rest are awesome but I don't have that childhood link with them, if that makes sense.

YoNoSe
12-17-2009, 06:01 PM
I can't decide and I can't read through this thread to see what has been griped about already. :lol
Spiderman and Spiderman 2 are about the best adaptation of the spirit of the source material as I think we'll get.
Personally, I love X2. I love Hellboy 2. Like Iron Man a LOT.
I don't think I have the perspective to judge Superman, S2. I'm not particularly big S fan but I loved the movies as a kid.
I guess it's Spiderman series for me. Sam Raimi gets it.
Guess I decided...

MANDO
12-17-2009, 06:02 PM
Sin City, 300, and Watchmen are the most faithful. Iron Man is the best reimagining and has best new costuming with the first Spiderman a close second. Superman is likely to hold the most nostalgia for me personally, although 2 is good as well.



How the hell did Ghostrider make the list? :lol

Bezzerkerr
12-17-2009, 06:35 PM
BATMAN 1989...where the Joker laughs, and Batman doesn't have a cold.

http://blog.newsok.com/nerdage/files/2009/07/keaton-nicholson-batman-1989.jpg


Enjoyed Iron Man and loved Spiderman 1...didn't care for TDK

NASEDO
12-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Batman shouldn't even count because he has no super powers. Spiderman, Superman & Xmen are real superheros. Fireballs, Web Shooting & Flying are alot harder to adapt to film.:rotfl:rotfl

Valfar
12-17-2009, 09:27 PM
Batman Begins is way way better then TDK.

MANDO
12-17-2009, 09:33 PM
No.
That whole "evaporate the the water and release the fear toxin" plot was almost as bad as Magneto thinking he could turn everyone into to Mutants in X1. :yuck

jye4ever
12-17-2009, 09:49 PM
I can't sit thru TDK in one shot, I get bored and the action scenes...well....kinda......stink :dunno

I prefer BB over TDK :dunno

Josette
12-17-2009, 10:29 PM
Mine:

01) Watchmen
02) The Dark Knight
03) V for Vendetta


Those are my top three.

devilof76
12-18-2009, 12:09 AM
Batman Begins.

It captured everything that is great about the character, as well as what is universal to not only the rote points of description, but the atmosphere of Bruce Wayne's persona. That's more intangible, and I'm not going to bother attempting to define it, but as far as I'm concerned, it is the only movie ever that accurately represented Batman. It echoed Year One to a large degree, but I think Legends of the Dark Knight is a title where the similarities are far more abundant.

TDK was an extension of what Begins accomplished, and was a phenomenal film in its own right, but the lack of focus on Batman (which incidentally, is exactly what tends to happen in any comic involving the Joker) made it less of a Batman film. Even though it was far more complex, and far more ambitious, it wasn't as concise. I don't see that as much a sign that Batman was neglected as it was that emphases on other characters were an interference. But the problem character in that regard wasn't the Joker, it was Rachel Dawes. I don't see how the man could ever have been in love with a girl like her, but that could just be me. The Batman I consider to be the greatest superhero ever has much better taste.

hairlesswookiee
12-18-2009, 01:55 AM
Batman Begins.

It captured everything that is great about the character, as well as what is universal to not only the rote points of description, but the atmosphere of Bruce Wayne's persona. That's more intangible, and I'm not going to bother attempting to define it, but as far as I'm concerned, it is the only movie ever that accurately represented Batman. It echoed Year One to a large degree, but I think Legends of the Dark Knight is a title where the similarities are far more abundant.

TDK was an extension of what Begins accomplished, and was a phenomenal film in its own right, but the lack of focus on Batman (which incidentally, is exactly what tends to happen in any comic involving the Joker) made it less of a Batman film. Even though it was far more complex, and far more ambitious, it wasn't as concise. I don't see that as much a sign that Batman was neglected as it was that emphases on other characters were an interference. But the problem character in that regard wasn't the Joker, it was Rachel Dawes. I don't see how the man could ever have been in love with a girl like her, but that could just be me. The Batman I consider to be the greatest superhero ever has much better taste.

^^^ Nice. I still put both together though.

-jay-
12-18-2009, 02:03 AM
TDK for me i love it. :rock

Voorhees27
12-18-2009, 08:39 AM
I can't sit thru TDK in one shot, I get bored and the action scenes...well....kinda......stink :dunno

I prefer BB over TDK :dunno


Batman Begins.

It captured everything that is great about the character, as well as what is universal to not only the rote points of description, but the atmosphere of Bruce Wayne's persona. That's more intangible, and I'm not going to bother attempting to define it, but as far as I'm concerned, it is the only movie ever that accurately represented Batman. It echoed Year One to a large degree, but I think Legends of the Dark Knight is a title where the similarities are far more abundant.

TDK was an extension of what Begins accomplished, and was a phenomenal film in its own right, but the lack of focus on Batman (which incidentally, is exactly what tends to happen in any comic involving the Joker) made it less of a Batman film. Even though it was far more complex, and far more ambitious, it wasn't as concise. I don't see that as much a sign that Batman was neglected as it was that emphases on other characters were an interference. But the problem character in that regard wasn't the Joker, it was Rachel Dawes. I don't see how the man could ever have been in love with a girl like her, but that could just be me. The Batman I consider to be the greatest superhero ever has much better taste.

I still prefer BB over TDK as well. BB is my all-time favorite comic movie and also one of my all-time favorite movies, period.

hoodonit00
12-18-2009, 11:39 AM
IMHO Spider Man 1 and 2 were by far the best so far. Number 2 may have jumped the gun a little on Mary Jane finding out Spidermans secret identity, but I actually enjoyed that she did.

fantasymaker
12-18-2009, 08:51 PM
TDK no doubt .

**16k**
12-20-2009, 03:59 AM
Okay, for me, that's an easy one!

1 Superman the Movie
2 Superman 2
3 Iron Man
4 Spiderman 2
5 Batman Begins

Worst:

1 TDK
2 Batman and Robin
3 Spiderman 3
4 Superman 4
5 Hulk (the first one!)

OSCORP
03-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Bump in light of the other thread.


Still and always will be STM for me.

Darth_Fatso
03-27-2010, 07:26 PM
Catwoman is my favorite superhero movie!

twistedfreak
03-27-2010, 07:28 PM
I loved Spider-Man 1 and 2. 3, well... it left much to be desired.
Spider Man movies gets my vote.

KneelBeforrSmallville
03-27-2010, 09:28 PM
The best of all time?..hmm all tied with Original SUPERMAN, TDK and SPIDERMAN 1

mattman6886
03-27-2010, 09:31 PM
Okay, for me, that's an easy one!

1 Superman the Movie
2 Superman 2
3 Iron Man
4 Spiderman 2
5 Batman Begins

Worst:

1 TDK
2 Batman and Robin
3 Spiderman 3
4 Superman 4
5 Hulk (the first one!)

:rotfl:lol:rotfl

ebor
03-27-2010, 10:21 PM
Greatest American Hero, Katt was awsome!:rotfl

Sweet Rabbit
03-28-2010, 12:30 PM
superman
ironman
watchmen
300

devilof76
03-28-2010, 09:37 PM
Can't believe TDK beat Batman Begins as bad as this. You people have no taste.

intothevoid
03-29-2010, 09:29 AM
TDK was better than BB IMO - but not by much

FLOSI
03-29-2010, 09:31 AM
The fact that the Incredible Hulk has more votes than Superman 2 makes this poll laughable at best....

devilof76
03-29-2010, 11:30 AM
I think I'd put Superman 2 right after Begins. Iron Man third.

Sined
03-29-2010, 11:38 AM
Tim Burton's Batman & Batman Returns.

OSCORP
03-29-2010, 05:21 PM
The fact that the Incredible Hulk has more votes than Superman 2 makes this poll laughable at best....


Hard to argue with that.

Calvin Candie
04-30-2012, 11:52 AM
1. Tdk
2. Watchmen

Darth Caedus
04-30-2012, 11:58 AM
http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1270854683-HolyNecropostingBatman.jpg

Avengers is my new #1 on that last

BuffyGirl
04-30-2012, 12:00 PM
http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1270854683-HolyNecropostingBatman.jpg

Avengers is my new #1 on that last

Yep, it should be put on there...

Eli26
04-30-2012, 03:16 PM
I have a feeling (not down there) that the Avengers flick will become my all-time Joss Whedon flick. He's super duper!

And yeah, this necroposting newbie is awesome! Keep it up! Rile em' up!

EVILFACE
04-30-2012, 03:17 PM
lol at Ghost Rider on the list.

K07
04-30-2012, 05:10 PM
BB, TDK, Spidey 1 & 2, Thor, and Iron Man.

EDIT - Not sure if this is comic book exclusive, but The Incredibles is also amazing.

ExMem-LarjaThwei
04-30-2012, 05:47 PM
Spiderman 1&2, Ironman and maybe First Class...haven't seen Avengers yet.

crows
04-30-2012, 05:50 PM
Check This out
mash up of every hero movie
http://youtu.be/J27JZrsiZJY

The Ringer
04-30-2012, 05:54 PM
Cool video, gey music

steven.giunta
04-30-2012, 05:56 PM
kick a$#!!!!!!!!

Darth Caedus
04-30-2012, 06:45 PM
The Phantom at the 1:00 minute mark...Looks like he's grabbing that guy's crotch :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

crows
04-30-2012, 06:50 PM
I Completely forgot there was a Meteor man movie, I remember I saw it when I was younger, but I completely erased everything about that movie from my memory LOL, I vaguely remember seeing it, but I completely forgot it. haha, if only I could do that now with other movies

carbo-fation
04-30-2012, 07:59 PM
I love TDK but I don't think I could ever put it above Superman the Movie or Superman II>.

Mister D
04-30-2012, 08:15 PM
For most of my life I held Donner's Superman to be the top of the pile. Of course, for most of my life its only competition was its own sequels and the Burton/Shumacher Bat films.

Summer of '08 changed that completely with not one but 3 movies that I think topped it - Iron Man, Dark Knight, and Hellboy 2 (and to be fair, Incredible Hulk was pretty fun, too).

Dark Knight wins it in my book, but Iron Man is not far behind.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
04-30-2012, 08:17 PM
Hellboy 2, though not a conventional superhero, is one of the most fun and enjoyable comic book films ever

Mister D
04-30-2012, 08:18 PM
The fact that the Incredible Hulk has more votes than Superman 2 makes this poll laughable at best....

I kneel before Zod, but otherwise Superman 2 is a very flawed film. Tons of cheese which, at the time (and at that age), weren't as bad as they are now. I remember for a long time S2 was rated higher than the first, but I find that position indefensible now. While I would probably not put Incredible Hulk over S2, it isn't as laughable as you believe.

crows
04-30-2012, 08:47 PM
Hellboy 2, though not a conventional superhero, is one of the most fun and enjoyable comic book films ever

i really wish they did Hellboy 3, Guillermo Del Toro really owns the fans a third movie after ending the second one that way,
i mean, of course he doesnt really own to do anything but I really really really wish they did H3, it would be so sweet

carbo-fation
04-30-2012, 08:49 PM
H3 would be great. I hope Del Toro revisits the series.

OSCORP
04-30-2012, 08:50 PM
These guys know whats up
:)

16k (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=4570), barbelith (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=4312), Batty (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=720), captain sack (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=249), carbo-fation (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=749), Dr.Mirakle32 (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=654), EVILFACE (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=289), Grange Wallis (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=1396), IronFingaz (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=1467), jye4ever (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=4605), N2Darkness (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=122), OSCORP (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=3512), plasmid303 (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=3743), Ryanfromindiana (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=2320), TheObsoleteMan (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=31), xerxes (http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/member.php?u=4273)

carbo-fation
04-30-2012, 08:53 PM
^:lol

:rock:rock:rock

crows
04-30-2012, 10:58 PM
why is the poll closed?

KneelBeforrSmallville
04-30-2012, 11:03 PM
My Top 5 in no order is

Spiderman 1 & 2, TDK, Cap and Batman 89...

I want Avengers and TDKR to be the new champs tho!

devilof76
04-30-2012, 11:06 PM
I think I'd put Superman 2 right after Begins. Iron Man third.

As if I thought Iron Man should be third. Incredible Hulk was much better.

RIDDICK
05-03-2012, 01:10 PM
No stupid polls for me.

* * *

Superman 1978
Batman 1989
Blade 1998
Daredevil 2003
Hellboy 2004
Batman Begins 2005
Superman Returns 2006
Iron Man 2008
Captain America: The First Avenger 2011.

The best.