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View Full Version : More Batman "experts", or how some people just don't get it!



adambadadam
08-04-2008, 04:55 PM
8/4

Ya know, there only so much you can do.

This from Yahoo Entertainment...


"Monday Movie Buzz: Bale's Batman voice too much?
Sunday August 3 1:44 PM ET


Though "The Dark Knight" has been a bona fide cultural event, boasting rave reviews and boffo box office, it hasn't been immune to criticism. Some have quibbled with its political undercurrents, and others have criticized a muddled theme.

But here's the critique most widely held: Why does Batman talk like the offspring of Clint Eastwood and a grizzly bear?

Donning the costume for the second time, Christian Bale has delved deeper into the lower registers. As Bruce Wayne, his voice is as smooth as his finely pressed suits. But once he puts the cape on, the transformation of his vocal chords is just as dramatic as his costume change.


Particularly when his rage boils over, Bale's Batman growls in an almost beastly fashion, reflecting how close he teeters between do-gooder and vengeance-crazed crusader.

"The Dark Knight" hauled in $43.8 million to rank as Hollywood's top movie for the third straight weekend, fending off "The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor" which opened a close second with $42.5 million. It has earned $394.9 million in just 17 days, according to studio estimates Sunday.

Though much of the voice effect is Bale's own doing, under the guidance of director Christopher Nolan and supervising sound editor Richard King, the frequency of his Batman voice was modulated to exaggerate the effect.

Critics and fans have noticed.

"His Batman rasps his lines in a voice that's deeper and hammier than ever," said NPR's David Edelstein.

The New Yorker's David Denby praised the urgency of Bale's Batman, but lamented that he "delivers his lines in a hoarse voice with an unvarying inflection."

Reviewing the film for MSNBC, Alonso Duralde wrote that Bale's Batman in "Batman Begins" "sounded absurdly deep, like a 10-year-old putting on an `adult' voice to make prank phone calls. This time, Bale affects an eerie rasp, somewhat akin to Brenda Vaccaro doing a Miles Davis impression."

Before the similes run too far afield, it's worth considering where the concept of a throaty Batman comes from.

In his portrayal on the `60s "Batman" TV series, Adam West didn't alter his voice between Bruce Wayne and Batman. Decades later when Tim Burton brought "Batman" to the big screen in a much darker incarnation, Michael Keaton's inflection was notably but not considerably different from one to the other.

But it was a lesser-known actor who, a few years after Burton's film, made perhaps the most distinct imprint on Batman's voice. Kevin Conroy, as the voice of the animated Batman in various projects from 1992's "Batman: The Animated Series" right up until this year's "Batman: Gotham Knight," brought a darker, raspier vocalization to Batman.

Conroy has inhabit the role longer than anyone else and though animated voice-over work doesn't have the same cachet as feature film acting, there are quarters where Conroy is viewed as the best Batman of them all certainly superior to Val Kilmer or George Clooney.

The animated series are notable because they drew on the DC Comics of Batman as envisioned by Frank Miller, whose work heavily informs "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight." (Bale and Nolan were unavailable to comment for this story.)

As Batman has gotten darker, his voice has gotten deeper. As some critics suggest, Bale and "The Dark Knight" may have reached a threshold, at least audibly."


As usual, the ^^^^ing critics are now suddenly the experts on Batman?!?

Personally if I heard something cross between Clint Eastwood and a Grizzley bear, I'd crap my pants. Duhh! He's supposed to "sound like a beast"!

I'm glad they give kudo's to Kevin Conroy, but the Animated Series took inspiration from alot more than just Frank Miller. God help us if they start taking inspiration from what he's been doing lately. Jeezus, I wish these people would shut up already and get back to enjoying thier serious pictures and leave comic books movies alone!

Nothing good will come from this.

___

8th wonder
08-04-2008, 05:07 PM
Personally if I heard something cross between Clint Eastwood and a Grizzley bear, I'd crap my pants. Duhh! He's supposed to "sound like a beast"!

Yeah but it doesn't sound tough. It sounds forced and cheesy. Bale just doesn't have a deep voice so he can't really enforce his voice in a good way.

I think the only time i thought Bale's bat-voice sounded reasonably cool is from Batman Begins when he says to Gordon "i brought mine" (when he takes Rachel to the tumbler).

adambadadam
08-04-2008, 05:12 PM
Yeah, I'm sure tough sounds like different things to different people but to compare his voice to Conroys isn't quite fair. How many episodes did that run for and Kevin had that advantage. Over the long haul, Kevin had time to develop the technique. He doesn't sound the same by the end of JLU, or more previously in Gotham Knight, as he did in the beginning of the A.Series. Hell, in a couple of G.Knight episodes, I thought a younger version of Batman (Bale) would've worked better than a seasoned K.Conroy!

Kuzeh
08-04-2008, 05:14 PM
Yeah but it doesn't sound tough. It sounds forced and cheesy. Bale just doesn't have a deep voice so he can't really enforce his voice in a good way.

I think the only time i thought Bale's bat-voice sounded reasonably cool is from Batman Begins when he says to Gordon "i brought mine" (when he takes Rachel to the tumbler).

Exactly, Batman's voice and the whole "Cover-up" B.S. are my biggest gripes with this movie...

CelticPredator
08-04-2008, 05:15 PM
I know why he does the voice, and it makes perfect sense...but I still dont like it.

adambadadam
08-04-2008, 05:15 PM
Bale had me ever since he made me "swear" to him.

Rugby1970
08-04-2008, 05:18 PM
I'm in the minority but it bothered me in BB but I dug it in TDK. Don't know why. Fit the theatrical nature of the Dark Knight.

They also made an effort to make him sound tired, effected and beaten in TDK. Many times he was extra raspy because he's been pummeled, choked or shot.

Hammy, yes, sure, I guess so but I love it. it worked for me...

darthviper107
08-04-2008, 05:22 PM
I thought he made the voice so people wouldn't recognize the voice of Bruce Wayne.

8th wonder
08-04-2008, 05:24 PM
I thought he made the voice so people wouldn't recognize the voice of Bruce Wayne.

True but that doesn't mean it can't sound good.

rabidwolverine21
08-04-2008, 05:28 PM
I thought he made the voice so people wouldn't recognize the voice of Bruce Wayne.

thats the way its been in most batman movies, it was even on the animated series. kevin conry would have a smooth wayne with a deeper more rasp styled batman and i loved it. to this day i still think of his voice as batman. I think it is a bit more recognizable with bale but i still dont really mind it until he is using it in a situation were it seems like the line would be better delivered with the growl toned down

The Mike
08-04-2008, 05:29 PM
http://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32230&page=126 :monkey3

adambadadam
08-04-2008, 05:32 PM
Depending on how old you are, do you ever remember getting so angry at somebody or something that if you did start to scream or yell, your voice couldn't quite keep up with the emotion.

I don't know why, but I keep thinking of Howard Dean and it makes me chuckle.

"I am the Batman.....NNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!"

Anyway, I kind'a like how Bale's voice spills over little. Especially in the interrogation scene it conveys his frustration because he does seem like he's on the edge of losing it and he's going to take somebodys head off.

I mean how would you react when you just found out you got punked and someone was for real going to harm someone very precious to you.

I couldn't be Batman.

I'd be all slobber and teeth.


He's not the hero we need,

he's the hero we deserve...

a silent guardian...

a Dark Knight.


sorry

adambadadam
08-04-2008, 05:38 PM
Thanks Iron Mike. I'm digging that thread, some very poignent thoughts on the Joker as well.

Never considered the "dog" angle and the licking.

This movie gets deeper and deeper.

gdb
08-04-2008, 05:41 PM
If Richard Branson or Donald Trump or any other well known rich playboys dressed up as Batman and opened their mouths to say, "I'm Batman," we'd all say, "No, you're not, you're Donald Trump," and start laughing.

He has to disguise his voice. Long gone are the days of Adam West doing the same voice for Bruce Wayne and Batman.

wofford29
08-04-2008, 05:45 PM
I love the voice.

adambadadam
08-04-2008, 05:47 PM
gdb wouldn't stand for ....."I'm the GOD DAMMN BATMAN!"

Dude, I'm so not laughing at you.

Btw Frank... Y1 is my favorite Bat story (I mean that). AB&R not so much.

RJMacReady16
08-04-2008, 05:59 PM
I love the voice.

Seconded.

Let the whiners whine.

Agent0028
08-04-2008, 06:05 PM
The voice sounds weird, but it doesn't really bother me. I just have to fight my desire to try to imitate it because it hurts my throat. Oh and I sound like an idiot too.

YoNoSe
08-04-2008, 06:33 PM
Even as someone who doesn't love TDK I can spot people latching onto anything just to criticize.
It's funny, as much as I can't get behind it all the way, it's an impossible movie to not appreciate.
On a surface level, yeah it's a silly voice. But it's also very much in tune with the physicality Bale gives Batman. And speaking of, he's really the first actor give ANY physicality to Batman. Batman becomes the 500 lb gorilla in his scenes. There's nothing natural about a guy in a bat suit to the normal people that see him, and he clearly does whatever he can to reinforce that. There's an almost Vorheese-like, force of nature quality.
It's ballsy. And whenever you go out on a limb like that you will get nervous giggles. I'm sure they knew that on set. But there's nothing subtle or smooth about this Batman. He's abrasive and perverse. That's what they're going for, and it works, and the asses are in the seats for it.
So let them giggle.

8th wonder
08-04-2008, 06:41 PM
But there's nothing subtle or smooth about this Batman. He's abrasive and perverse.

I think he is way to slick actually. I don't really see the man-beast he should be. But to be honest the suit doesn't help. The suit is very far from being primal.

YoNoSe
08-04-2008, 06:51 PM
I think he is way to slick actually. I don't really see the man-beast he should be. But to be honest the suit doesn't help. The suit is very far from being primal.

Really? Slick is the last way I would describe him. I do agree the new suit is less in line with that idea, but it didn't distract me.
Mind you, all of my ovbservations are based on one viewing the day after it opened.:D

8th wonder
08-04-2008, 06:55 PM
Really? Slick is the last way I would describe him. I do agree the new suit is less in line with that idea, but it didn't distract me.
Mind you, all of my ovbservations are based on one viewing the day after it opened.:D

Same here.

plasmid303
08-04-2008, 07:07 PM
I like it when he yells or when he's angry. It's intense, riveting, sometimes terrifying.

adambadadam
08-04-2008, 08:53 PM
I would agree that the costume is sleekier, and I appreciate the purpose of that, but "slick" isn't what I'd describe it as. The new costume is sleek like broken, black glass that moves and pummels.

CelticPredator
08-04-2008, 10:39 PM
I just think he needs to tone it down just a little. It sounds like he's out of breath all the time....

The Craw
08-04-2008, 10:41 PM
i love the voice and the new suit. i would never have gone to see the movie if it wasnt for these 2 elements. i swear.

EVILFACE
08-04-2008, 10:42 PM
Odd, $393,751,065 worth of people don't seem to care about the voice.

CelticPredator
08-04-2008, 10:48 PM
I dont care THAT much about it. It doesnt keep me away from the film...im just not a fan. But I can deal.

The Craw
08-04-2008, 10:53 PM
i never noticed anything wrong with the voice until after the film when everyone seemed to have a problem with it. my question is where were they during Batman Begins? his voice was the same in that film. makes me wonder how many batman noobs even bothered to watch the first film.

CelticPredator
08-04-2008, 10:54 PM
I didnt like it in that movie either.

Kratos
08-04-2008, 11:52 PM
Thats the only thing I did not like about TDK Bale's Batman voice it didn't work for me

creecher
08-05-2008, 12:25 AM
I like the deep dark throat as much as the deep dark knight. He dons a persona and the vocalisation of that is incumbent to that persona. I noticed Bale didn't lisp as much, though you could see his tongue working hard to overcome that in a couple of the scenes.

To see that there is such a fuss about this just adds to the fact that there isn't much more to pick on. Everything stacks up in terms of figures and fans against any down play afforded by the critics. Who pays attention to them anyway? We do, because we're talking about it now. If we ever agreed with them wholeheartedly, you would know they weren't doing their job, which is more or less to invoke you to see the film and have your own opinion. The point is they get paid to be opinionated. There are ones where you can respect their opinion and there are one's that you would disrespect with relish. It makes me wonder if they collect Star War figures.

As far as his voice goes, I can roll with it. I found the holes to be the most disconcerting part of the film, but at least it didn't linger to explain them.

carbo-fation
08-05-2008, 03:17 AM
I like the voice, the new suit and Christian Bale as Batman. I think the box office speaks for itself. ;)

Karaduin
08-05-2008, 03:51 AM
I found that certain cinemas have poor sound. Back when Attack of the Clones came out I saw it at a really big West End screen - no probs there as you might expect. I took my niece and nephew to see it a few weeks later, not in the West End but at a smaller, still decent size screen just not as expensive - the sound 'balance' or whatever you call it was really f-ed. At certain moments, usually during big battle scenes I was certain the speakers were straining, occasionally even popping and distorting.

When I saw TDK the other day - this cinema's sound was like when I saw AotC... all over the place - sometimes way to base-y, sometimes you could bearly hear the background score and as for Bale's bat-voice... well I could barely hear what he was saying... all I could hear was a low murmur.

Funnily enough it was the same cinema I saw Begins - which I didnt like at first partly because I couldnt understand what the Bat was saying. Fast forward to DVD release and I bought it to 'give it another try'. In my home environment which doesnt have messed up sound - i grew to love this film. The voice was no longer a problem. The "swear to me" bit with Flass suddenly became one of the coolest scenes of the movie for me. Batman doing his intimidation routine is too cool.

Kuzeh
08-05-2008, 09:02 AM
I didn't like the voice since Batman Begins either...
I love the movie but the voice and as I said the whole "Dent's Coverup" BS, are my only gripes with it...oh and seeing Chase, Starbucks and all of that in a fictional city. :rolleyes:

But anyway, back to the voice, if he has to "disguise" his voice, and with all the money and all the technology, you would think that a "voice-changer" would come in handy, wouldn't you?
I mean, they even sell those at any Halloween stores for like 10 bucks! :D

So no, it doesn't make any sense for him to fake the voice...sorry...

That doesn't mean that the movie sucks, nope, it's an awesome movie, but you have to realize that there's a few inconsistencies, it happens to all movies...

CelticPredator
08-05-2008, 09:27 AM
Ah, but its a fictional city in OUR world....its not Tim Burton's Batman world where every song is written by Prince...

YoNoSe
08-05-2008, 09:37 AM
you would think that a "voice-changer"...

Now that you mention that, I think that would have been a good alternative.

Ktjn
08-05-2008, 09:54 AM
True but that doesn't mean it can't sound good.

Exactly. It was way too grumbly/garbled this time around.

RJMacReady16
08-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Ah, but its a fictional city in OUR world....its not Tim Burton's Batman world where every song is written by Prince...

Zing! :lol

Kuzeh
08-05-2008, 10:41 AM
Ah, but its a fictional city in OUR world....its not Tim Burton's Batman world where every song is written by Prince...

Right....:rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/kuzeh/batmanchase.jpg

BTW, what happened to Batman Begins' Wayne's building?
I assume it's not the same from DK because that one looked pretty bad...

YoNoSe
08-05-2008, 10:52 AM
Ah, but its a fictional city in OUR world....its not Tim Burton's Batman world where every song is written by Prince...

You mean "our world" where third degree burn victims walk around flipping coins and men crush cars with minimal injury thanks to rubber suits?:lol

Oh, and mutilated cross-dressing terrorists in face paint flounce around hospitals unnoticed. Happens all the time. :)

CelticPredator
08-05-2008, 11:18 AM
And some dude the other day cut off someone's head on a bus for no damn reason. Scary clowno cant touch that ^^^^.

barbelith
08-05-2008, 03:09 PM
Everything stacks up in terms of figures and fans against any down play afforded by the critics.

Well to be fair, critics often have a different response to film because they're far more fluent in the medium than the general public. They're watching it differently than the masses and seeing different things. This is one reason why there is such a gulf between popularity and critical acclaim in most types of art. The guy who reads a few books a year and lacks critical faculties is going to think Dan Brown is fine; the guy who reads a million books a year and know how to deconstruct them is probably going to to think Faulkner is better.

As for the box office ... appealing to popularity means we also have to accept that Full House is better than The Wire and Britney Spears is better than Radiohead. Few people are going to do that, and sensibly so. It's worth noting though that The Dark Knight is popular and critically acclaimed. But it's not a perfect movie, and if some critics aren't on their hands and knees with nose firmly twixt cheeks, well, some fanboys need to get out more.

Shai
08-05-2008, 03:17 PM
And some dude the other day cut off someone's head on a bus for no damn reason. Scary clowno cant touch that ^^^^.

This was here in Québec, last week.

Shai
08-05-2008, 03:18 PM
Didnt like ''the voice''

CelticPredator
08-05-2008, 04:20 PM
This was here in Québec, last week.

Yep. ^^^^ed up .

Les Walker
08-05-2008, 06:10 PM
Oh, it was alright. I didn't like it as much as the more moderated BB voice, but it was ok. Conroy IS Batman though. If I hear his voice, I see Batman. Nuff said.
Bale does fine though. I guess I am ok with it.

8th wonder
08-05-2008, 06:27 PM
Ah, but its a fictional city in OUR world....its not Tim Burton's Batman world where every song is written by Prince...

I think if you want to define a batman that is truly Burton you have to go with Batman Returns, not 89 Batman. Batman returns is Burton doing a batman that is truly his. No prince there, just a great song by Siouxsie and the Banshees.


Allot of things in Nolan's movies are not all that realistic, it just pretends to be realistic by being unimaginative. Not to mention that realism is highly overrated.

8th wonder
08-05-2008, 06:34 PM
=YoNoSe;1068110]You mean "our world" where third degree burn victims walk around flipping coins and men crush cars with minimal injury thanks to rubber suits?:lol

And after that the corniest line ever by a woman that was falling to her death 2 seconds before that, no need for trauma. "lets not do that again shall we" said Rachel with a flirting smile. Terrible.

YoNoSe
08-05-2008, 06:51 PM
And after that the corniest line ever by a woman that was falling to her death 2 seconds before that, no need for trauma. "lets not do that again shall we" said Rachel with a flirting smile. Terrible.

I actually thought it was worse when she was looking at Harvey's coin and said, out loud, "Makes his own luck!" I longed for Katie Holmes.

I don't feel like the movie was unimaginative. I feel like they were selective in what they made realistic, and a lot of it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't question the taste of anyone who liked it. I just don't agree when people say this is the definitive Joker, etc. For a lot of people it's not. I think Iprefered Two-Face in the movie because he was less realistic. This Joker is a real terrorist. That's not what I want in my Batman movie.

wofford29
08-05-2008, 06:53 PM
This Joker is a real terrorist. That's not what I want in my Batman movie.

Thank God it's Chirstopher Nolan's Batman movie then.:monkey3

YoNoSe
08-05-2008, 07:13 PM
Thank God it's Chirstopher Nolan's Batman movie then.:monkey3

Absolutely. All that money means he'll have the freedom to make movies I like.

CelticPredator
08-05-2008, 08:51 PM
Joker IS a terrorist.

Shai
08-05-2008, 08:53 PM
the girl who replaced katy holmes whatever her name was very unnatractive.

EVILFACE
08-05-2008, 08:57 PM
Yea, but at least Thetans aren't trying to destroy her!!

Holmes was cute when she was younger. Pretty hot in Pieces of April!!

Murderofcrows71
08-05-2008, 09:06 PM
if he has to "disguise" his voice, and with all the money and all the technology, you would think that a "voice-changer" would come in handy, wouldn't you?
I mean, they even sell those at any Halloween stores for like 10 bucks! :D

.


Actually as stated in the first movie and also in the behind the scenes of the suit on the first DVD, and any of the books on making the films the cowl is supposed to have been created with a voice modulator in it, which lowers and reverbs Wayne's voice to a low growl. Both to disguise his voice and terrify the enemy. If you listen in the films you can hear the modulation when he talks

Eli26
08-05-2008, 11:56 PM
What a tired and old topic. Bale's Batman voice sucked. Nuff' said.

SovereignStudio
08-05-2008, 11:59 PM
This is exactly why I never listen to "critics"! The concept of Bruce Wayne disguising his voice has always been part of the deal. Adam West was the only guy that didn't do it.

I agree: these A-holes need to keep their noses in their pretentious, incoherent "art" films and leave the actual good, watchable movies alone!

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 12:11 AM
Because they hate his voice?

Kuzeh
08-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Actually as stated in the first movie and also in the behind the scenes of the suit on the first DVD, and any of the books on making the films the cowl is supposed to have been created with a voice modulator in it, which lowers and reverbs Wayne's voice to a low growl. Both to disguise his voice and terrify the enemy. If you listen in the films you can hear the modulation when he talks

Sorry dude, but that's BS... you can clearly listen it's just Bale's faking the voice...no modulation whatsoever. If so, then they should get a new sound engineer!
I love the movies, but I couldn't help but chuckle every time I heard Bale's "prank-call" voice :D:D

Dusty
08-06-2008, 12:26 PM
Have to agree with the chucklers. I've seen the movie twice and I still laugh everytime his voice goes 'over the top'. Pulls me right out of the experience.

Like the film a lot, but still enjoyed both Wall-E and Iron Man more. Batman is just a little too bleak and violent for my tastes. TDK would be just 'good' without Heath as the Joker, and deep down we all know that's why it's made so much money. The Joker ROCKS. Too bad we will never know how much it would have made without the death happening... at the midnight show I went to, the theater was packed with girls, which is almost unheard of for a midnight showing of a superhero film... and guess who every single one of them was chattering about? Our society is messed up...

pixletwin
08-06-2008, 12:28 PM
Bat's voice didn't bother me one bit and I would never have even given it a second though if I hadn't read it here.:dunno

ProgMatinee
08-06-2008, 12:44 PM
My wife and I mocked the voice as soon as we left the theater. A great film, but the voice did distract a tad. Its just a bit too over the top.

creecher
08-06-2008, 02:53 PM
Over the top is the premise of this whole film. Augmenting it visually and aurally just adds to the whole theatrical experience.

ProgMatinee
08-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Over the top is the premise of this whole film. Augmenting it visually and aurally just adds to the whole theatrical experience.

Ok. Next film I hope they throw in a few showtunes and add to the "whole theatrical experience."

Agent0028
08-06-2008, 05:34 PM
It worked for Spider-Man 3... :monkey3

Shai
08-06-2008, 05:39 PM
Have to agree with the chucklers. I've seen the movie twice and I still laugh everytime his voice goes 'over the top'. Pulls me right out of the experience.

Like the film a lot, but still enjoyed both Wall-E and Iron Man more. Batman is just a little too bleak and violent for my tastes. TDK would be just 'good' without Heath as the Joker, and deep down we all know that's why it's made so much money. The Joker ROCKS. Too bad we will never know how much it would have made without the death happening... at the midnight show I went to, the theater was packed with girls, which is almost unheard of for a midnight showing of a superhero film... and guess who every single one of them was chattering about? Our society is messed up...

:lecture:lecture:lecture

Sums up pretty much everything I said or thought about this movie.Thanks Dusty. But you made the Dark Knight is the next coming of christ fan boys of this site very sad.....

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 05:47 PM
Uh...it IS the second coming. Its in the bible. Look it up. PG 418

YoNoSe
08-06-2008, 05:59 PM
Ok. Next film I hope they throw in a few showtunes and add to the "whole theatrical experience."

I think Joel Schumacher was about one movie away from that.

carbo-fation
08-06-2008, 06:04 PM
But seriously though, if the worse thing about this movie was Batman's voice for some of you, then I am pretty darn happy. :D

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 09:04 PM
Have to agree with the chucklers. I've seen the movie twice and I still laugh everytime his voice goes 'over the top'. Pulls me right out of the experience.

Like the film a lot, but still enjoyed both Wall-E and Iron Man more. Batman is just a little too bleak and violent for my tastes. TDK would be just 'good' without Heath as the Joker, and deep down we all know that's why it's made so much money. The Joker ROCKS. Too bad we will never know how much it would have made without the death happening... at the midnight show I went to, the theater was packed with girls, which is almost unheard of for a midnight showing of a superhero film... and guess who every single one of them was chattering about? Our society is messed up...


Just curious and completely serious...

what part/(s) did Joker ROCK?!?

I mean his scenes were some of the most violent in the film, or are you refering to Batman's character?

For all the futility and fan-boys out here, I'm just taking the opportunity to research the Venus mind and the rare occasion that many, many Females enjoyed Dark Knight, perhaps as much as Mama Mia!:naughty

wofford29
08-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Something I've never understood, and makes no sense is when people say stuff like "without Heath's performance it would just be okay."

That's like saying "well if you guys didn't score more points than us we would have won." No ^^^^, but we did.

If Iron Man didn't have Robert Downey Jr.'s performance it would suck. No ^^^^, really.

If The Incredible Hulk was written better it wouldn't have sucked. No ^^^^, really.

If The Mummy 3 were never made it would have been a better movie. No ^^^^, really.

DarkArtist81
08-06-2008, 09:16 PM
I would have loved the film just as much if Heath had lived. And the voice never bothered me. Being a fellow Kurgan, I don't normally go against Shai... but, I don't get the TDK negativity. Yeah, there are a lot of blind love fanboys of the film... and it's justified... I just don't get the hate. Any self respecting LONG time Batman fan would love this film. And that is only if you have long loved the character from the comics, not the films, and it also helps if you like the edge Frank Miller brought to it. TDK is damn near my favorite film of all time, I can comfortably say that. To me it ranks right up there with Raiders, Star Wars, Jaws and Halloween at the very peak of my cinematic love.

It has nothing to do with Heath dying, and a LOT more with the fact that they got Batman right and moreover... that they NAILED The Joker's character. Not to mention that it's the best Gordon we have ever had, the best Two Face, and a super hero film that the hero in question DOESN'T save the girl. It's everything I wanted it to be and more, and it has nothing to do with the hype.

Throw rocks at me, crucify me if you will... I will never back down from that belief.

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 09:18 PM
I think all those extra points come from a whole cast of collaboration, not the least of which was Aaron Eckhart. I mean, I knew I would like Christian Bale, Morgan Friedman and Gary Oldman, but Maggie G.(she makes herself seem unattainable even to Bruce. Thats choosey!) and Eric Roberts were suprises. Hell, TDK had ZEUS!!!! WWF reprasent yo!

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 09:21 PM
Oh yeah, all crucifixitions are hereby suspended until further notice.

DarkArtist81
08-06-2008, 09:24 PM
Oh yeah, all crucifixitions are hereby suspended until further notice.

:rotfl:lol:rotfl

wofford29
08-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Being a fellow Kurgan, I don't normally go against Shai... but, I don't get the TDK negativity.

It's the Marvel fanboy in him. It burns him to the soul.

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 09:30 PM
TDK was a great movie...even if The Joker was out...

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 09:32 PM
"If The Mummy 3 were never made it would have been a better movie. No ^^^^, really."

No ^^^^... but tell us how you really feel???:rotfl:lol:rotfl

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 09:32 PM
Mummy 3 is great fun! I want to see it again actually...

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 09:35 PM
Mummy 3 is great fun! I want to see it again actually...

Sorry, didn't care for the first two, but kinda excited for this one. How's Jet Li and Michelle Yeoh???

wofford29
08-06-2008, 09:38 PM
You know how you can tell who the worst actor of all time is? Go to the huge Walmart bin of DVDs that are like 40 movies for a quarter and count the number of times an actors face appears in a film from the pile. By my last count Brenden Fraiser was a good 4 ahead of Steven Segal.

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 09:39 PM
He was pretty terrible in this. I liked him in the other movies.

Yeoh was cool. But she had as much screen time as Jet, which was...not much. Her and Jet's fight is really short. Cool but short.

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 09:40 PM
You know how you can tell who the worst actor of all time is? Go to the huge Walmart bin of DVDs that are like 40 movies for a quarter and count the number of times an actors face appears in a film from the pile. By my last count Brenden Fraiser was a good 4 a head of Steven Segal.

Oh and by that logic, Robert DeNiro is the worst. A ton of his flicks in my pliles. :lol

wofford29
08-06-2008, 09:41 PM
Oh and by that logic, Robert DeNiro is the worst. A ton of his flicks in my pliles. :lol

Is "pliles" spanish for privates?

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 09:43 PM
Perhaps.
Wal-Mart is a strange place.

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 09:45 PM
Man...no mercy from Wofford tonite!!! Have to say agree with regarding "Frasier", if I could throw a rock at his head, I couldn't hit him hard enough. That stupid, goof-ball look he's got...but that's kinda like casting stones from glass houses. That Wal-Mart bin is where I found my copy of "Hudson Hawk"!

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 09:57 PM
I found T-2 in that Wal-Mart bin. I love that stupid thing. 5 bucks for some really great movies.

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 10:00 PM
I think I've been seeing HellBoy Dir.Cut/Spec Ed. for $9.00. Need to break down and buy it before the price gets jacked back up.

CelticPredator
08-06-2008, 10:01 PM
I got it, i've wanted that for a while, but didnt want to pay 40 bucks for it. I hate Wal-Mart..but sometimes....sometimes, they kick butt.

The Josh
08-06-2008, 10:03 PM
Bat's voice didn't bother me one bit and I would never have even given it a second though if I hadn't read it here.:dunno

Same here. I didn't even think about it then and when I read stuff like this I just laugh cause its nothing more than a lame attempt to pull down a great film.

Its hard to say how much this would have made if Heath had lived, but the fact is he isn't and its making money hand over fist. I haven't seen Wall-E but TDK and Iron Man are the two best films I've seen this summer and in a long while honestly.

creecher
08-06-2008, 10:05 PM
Ok. Next film I hope they throw in a few showtunes and add to the "whole theatrical experience."
That's not being over the top. That's being ridiculous. :lol

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 10:14 PM
"Same here. I didn't even think about it then and when I read stuff like this I just laugh cause its nothing more than a lame attempt to pull down a great film."

Interesting theory...

even more interesting, if not for being so frustrating, was the next morning after starting this thread, I was driving to work listening to the morning news/traffic yarn. The local media personalities were doing an entertainment news feature of the same thing but they were totally reading it off of Yahoo. They didn't scoop this site or what I posted, they just mimicked the same, faulty article off the internet.

Pure monkey see, monkey do.

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 10:19 PM
or to put it better:monkey1:monkey1:monkey1

UTtoyfan
08-06-2008, 10:23 PM
I would have loved the film just as much if Heath had lived. And the voice never bothered me. Being a fellow Kurgan, I don't normally go against Shai... but, I don't get the TDK negativity. Yeah, there are a lot of blind love fanboys of the film... and it's justified... I just don't get the hate. Any self respecting LONG time Batman fan would love this film. And that is only if you have long loved the character from the comics, not the films, and it also helps if you like the edge Frank Miller brought to it. TDK is damn near my favorite film of all time, I can comfortably say that. To me it ranks right up there with Raiders, Star Wars, Jaws and Halloween at the very peak of my cinematic love.

It has nothing to do with Heath dying, and a LOT more with the fact that they got Batman right and moreover... that they NAILED The Joker's character. Not to mention that it's the best Gordon we have ever had, the best Two Face, and a super hero film that the hero in question DOESN'T save the girl. It's everything I wanted it to be and more, and it has nothing to do with the hype.

Throw rocks at me, crucify me if you will... I will never back down from that belief.

Josh took the words right out of my mouth. I would be honored to stand by his side at the rock throwing ceremony. :horror:naughty:lol:joy
I love the Batman comics, and Frank Miller's take on the Dark Knight is amazing. I'm re-reading Dark Knight Strikes Again currently since I just finished Watchmen (another great graphic novel by the way).

The Josh
08-06-2008, 10:25 PM
I tend to agree with Josh and I'm no Batman Fanboy.

UTtoyfan
08-06-2008, 10:27 PM
Joker said it best:


"I had a vision, of a world without Batman...And it was so... boring."

:D

adambadadam
08-06-2008, 10:28 PM
Thank you!

You reaffirm my belief, that the "article" in question, is nothing more and nothing less than a puff/fluff peice designed to stir up ^^^^.

Which obviously it has succeeded, because I've spent so much time here:lol

The Craw
08-06-2008, 10:35 PM
i saw BB begins. i enjoyed it. when they announced the sequel i was all like "cool a sequel to this awesome movie? cant wait to see it". i saw the sequel and it was good. it doesnt matter if heath ledger is alive or dead i would have seen the film and enjoyed it the same way. it's kinda sad to me that people think the film was only successful cuz heath died and its even sadder if people only went to see it cuz heath died. it truly is an enjoyable film and it shouldnt just be viewed for heath's sake.

Mesa
08-06-2008, 10:41 PM
What's not to like about the way Batman talks?

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artistrex
08-07-2008, 12:37 AM
well it took the "critics" almost a month to find something to hate about this movie. In truth I personally think that critics are crapping themselves that a comic book movie is moving up the box office record fast and they can't stand the thought that maybe someday Titanic will be knocked off by *gasp* *sob* a summer blockbuster, let alone A comic book movie!

Idioteque
08-07-2008, 01:44 AM
I'm with Josh. Modern masterpiece.

The Craw
08-07-2008, 02:37 AM
titanic blows.

automaton
08-07-2008, 02:39 AM
there is so much symbolism behind the voice... we only see the real Bruce Wayne around those he is closest too (3 people?)... he not only has created the persona of the Bat, but of his public image too (pompous playboy)... how long into his own personal spiral until he starts fooling himself? Bruce is indeed a hero, but as with the Joker and Two Face, not absolutely grounded.

The Craw
08-07-2008, 02:41 AM
titanic swallows.

Shai
08-07-2008, 04:54 AM
It's the Marvel fanboy in him. It burns him to the soul.

Maybe....:lol

barbelith
08-07-2008, 05:13 AM
well it took the "critics" almost a month to find something to hate about this movie. In truth I personally think that critics are crapping themselves that a comic book movie is moving up the box office record fast and they can't stand the thought that maybe someday Titanic will be knocked off by *gasp* *sob* a summer blockbuster, let alone A comic book movie!

Except that critics don't care about box office records, generally slated Titanic and largely blessed The Dark Knight with strong reviews...

Agent0028
08-07-2008, 08:01 AM
I feel justified in saying that this is a great movie without being labeled a fanboy. I was extremely skeptical of the movie at first, didn't think I'd like Joker and generally thought the movie was way overhyped. I'm also not as huge Batman fan, I'm not sure if I've ever seen any of the first four in their entirety, and I just started reading the comics recently. Also my little sister went to see it with me once and really got in to it and this isn't really her type of movie at all. I think the movie just has alot of appeal.

Kuzeh
08-07-2008, 09:45 AM
I think some people are misunderstanding some of the critiques some of us have towards this movie.

I loved the movie! Heck, I am in it as an extra!! So how can I not love it!! :D

But as much as I love it, I think it's not perfect, no movie is, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it or that I won't see it a dozen times. Of course the good things are way more than the bad things...

I'll list the only things that bothers me in no particular order, hopefully hardcore fans, fans and casual fans will understand that it's not hate or trying to bring the movie down or anything like that, just things I don't like about the movie :peace

- About the plot:
This might be my biggest gripe..."The Cover-up"... while I understand perfectly why Batman decided to cover-up Harvey Dent's mess, it's one of those things that usually government officials would do, OK not taking the fall as Batman did, but covering up, because "people can't handle the truth"... but I don't expect that from a Hero that's trying to bring truth and justice to the city.:rolleyes:

Also, I think the whole cell phone radar was such a lame idea that a device to see through walls would've seemed more feasible than using cell phones, I mean, come on!!! :gun

-About Batman's voice:
I think this one is poor judgement since Begins, if he wants to desguise his voice, he could use technology and all those millions of dollars on a voice changer

- About the city:
Product placement...Gotham city is a fictional city... so why do we have to see Starbucks and Chase in every fricking corner... no thanks!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/kuzeh/batmanchase.jpg


Anyway, as I said, nothing major except the cover-up but I did loved the movie, I think it sets the bar pretty high, along with IronMan for future superhero movies, and it's one of those rare sequels that are better than the first one...

UTtoyfan
08-07-2008, 10:43 AM
I think some people are misunderstanding some of the critiques some of us have towards this movie.

I loved the movie! Heck, I am in it as an extra!! So how can I not love it!! :D

But as much as I love it, I think it's not perfect, no movie is, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it or that I won't see it a dozen times. Of course the good things are way more than the bad things...

I'll list the only things that bothers me in no particular order, hopefully hardcore fans, fans and casual fans will understand that it's not hate or trying to bring the movie down or anything like that, just things I don't like about the movie :peace

- About the plot:
This might be my biggest gripe..."The Cover-up"... while I understand perfectly why Batman decided to cover-up Harvey Dent's mess, it's one of those things that usually government officials would do, OK not taking the fall as Batman did, but covering up, because "people can't handle the truth"... but I don't expect that from a Hero that's trying to bring truth and justice to the city.:rolleyes:

Also, I think the whole cell phone radar was such a lame idea that a device to see through walls would've seemed more feasible than using cell phones, I mean, come on!!! :gun

-About Batman's voice:
I think this one is poor judgement since Begins, if he wants to desguise his voice, he could use technology and all those millions of dollars on a voice changer

- About the city:
Product placement...Gotham city is a fictional city... so why do we have to see Starbucks and Chase in every fricking corner... no thanks!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/kuzeh/batmanchase.jpg


Anyway, as I said, nothing major except the cover-up but I did loved the movie, I think it sets the bar pretty high, along with IronMan for future superhero movies, and it's one of those rare sequels that are better than the first one...

Don't forget Harris Bank, which is only located in Chicago I believe? And yes, I totally agree with you on your points. And despite those points, like you, I love the movie! :)

Oh, and that's my card too! hehe

Agent0028
08-07-2008, 02:04 PM
I never even noticed the Chase and Starbucks. I don't see why it matters.

wofford29
08-07-2008, 07:58 PM
I never even noticed the Chase and Starbucks. I don't see why it matters.

Seriously. You would have to be looking hardcore to notice something like that.

CelticPredator
08-07-2008, 10:15 PM
I noticed it in the trailers. But that was BECAUSE I was looking hardcore.

Still, why cant there be a Starbucks in Gotham? Im sure Batman has his own "Special"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RqxHQOG7w

DarkArtist81
08-07-2008, 11:03 PM
Product placement is unavoidable in these days, and when you are filming cityscapes... it's hard to avoid without digital manipulation. I didn't notice...

RJMacReady16
08-08-2008, 12:26 AM
I didn't notice either.

But even if you did, it all comes down to---Burton's Gotham or Nolan's?

So far Nolan's is far more enjoyable.

CelticPredator
08-08-2008, 12:29 AM
I wouldnt mind living in Nolan's Gotham. ^^^^ Tim Burtons though, looking at that place would probably give me asbestos.

Zoolander
08-08-2008, 12:42 AM
I loved Burton's Gotham but for some reason I always associate it with Christmas time.

CelticPredator
08-08-2008, 12:43 AM
Oh I love it too...I just wouldnt live there....

and thats probably because Returns was set in Christmas time...

Zoolander
08-08-2008, 12:54 AM
Oh I love it too...I just wouldnt live there....

I would :lol always something to see! just don't go into the sewer, church, parade, a high office building, an art gallery or a rich dudes party!

CelticPredator
08-08-2008, 01:04 AM
Or anywhere where theres a clown giving away 12 mil....:lol

Dr.Mirakle32
08-08-2008, 01:08 AM
Oh I love it too...I just wouldnt live there....



That's the idea. Gotham ain't supposed to be a great place to live!

CelticPredator
08-08-2008, 01:43 AM
No, Gotham CAN be a nice place to live....but the crime would put a lot of people off....its just Burton's Gotham is just disgusting and vile. Steam everywhere, green goo leaking all over the place....blah.

Zoolander
08-08-2008, 01:50 AM
if gotham was intended to be a good place to live then it would not need a freak dressed as a bat to police it!

UTtoyfan
08-08-2008, 06:37 AM
Or anywhere where theres a clown giving away 12 mil....:lol

That was the scariest part for me when I was younger watching the 1989 Batman. All the people running around grabbing the money and inhaling Smilex gas. Yay!

fett1
08-08-2008, 06:45 AM
Bale had me ever since he made me "swear" to him.

Well said adambadadam....................................... . I couldnt agree more.. Bale plays the ultimate true too comic book representation of the vengeance hungry orphin who simply disguises his voice so not to be perhaps recognised as Wayne...................................as he is so widely known by so many in Gotham as both Batman or Wayne....

Cheers to you for raising this thread,.........:clap:clap:clap

Fett1

Agent0028
08-08-2008, 07:54 AM
So, I was just thinking, if people can't recognize Clark Kent as Superman because of the glasses, then why would Batman need to change his voice? :lol

YoNoSe
08-08-2008, 07:58 AM
So, I was just thinking, if people can't recognize Clark Kent as Superman because of the glasses, then why would Batman need to change his voice? :lol

Because Batman can't give the "amnesia kiss.":rotfl

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Because Batman can't give the "amnesia kiss.":rotfl

WIN!:rotfl

Lord help me if I ever start to over analyze these things. I watch these films to have a good time. I read comic books to relax. Can you imagine what Star Trek fans go through?:pow :banghead :lecture

YoNoSe
08-08-2008, 10:59 AM
WIN!:rotfl

Lord help me if I ever start to over analyze these things. I watch these films to have a good time. I read comic books to relax. Can you imagine what Star Trek fans go through?:pow :banghead :lecture

A Star Trek fan recently got all huffy with me because I had the nerve to ask whether JJ Abrams new movie would be more of a prequel, or a total reboot. They seemed to be mocking my ignorance, but never actually answered my question.:rolleyes:

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Also, I don't think I would put Nolan's or Burton's Batman over each other. Both are timeless, but completely different animals. Like your favorite monthly book, creative teams constantly change. I just happen to really like the last go round.

I've got nothing to ^^^^^ about. As far as comic-book francises go, I think Batman fans have it good. The last 20 years have seen Frank Miller, both Burton movies, the Animated Series/K.Conroy, Leob/Sale/Lee, Bat'anime, and the Nolan'verse. Let's not forget a scadazzle of cool toys.

By comparison, Superman started strong, but never really "returned" and both Spider-Man and X-Men have sputtered out before they really got started. Hellboy and Iron-Man, as good as they are, are still a wait and see kinda thing.

Over the long haul, I believe Batman has strong future in front of it because of the quality of whats come before.

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 11:13 AM
A Star Trek fan recently got all huffy with me because I had the nerve to ask whether JJ Abrams new movie would be more of a prequel, or a total reboot. They seemed to be mocking my ignorance, but never actually answered my question.:rolleyes:

Lashing out is always a sign of self-hatred!

I'll still go see the next Star Trek movie though:lol

YoNoSe
08-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Lashing out is always a sign of self-hatred!

I'll still go see the next Star Trek movie though:lol

Me too! That's why I was asking. :confused:

Dusty
08-08-2008, 11:50 AM
I would have loved the film just as much if Heath had lived. And the voice never bothered me. Being a fellow Kurgan, I don't normally go against Shai... but, I don't get the TDK negativity. Yeah, there are a lot of blind love fanboys of the film... and it's justified... I just don't get the hate. Any self respecting LONG time Batman fan would love this film. And that is only if you have long loved the character from the comics, not the films, and it also helps if you like the edge Frank Miller brought to it. TDK is damn near my favorite film of all time, I can comfortably say that. To me it ranks right up there with Raiders, Star Wars, Jaws and Halloween at the very peak of my cinematic love.

It has nothing to do with Heath dying, and a LOT more with the fact that they got Batman right and moreover... that they NAILED The Joker's character. Not to mention that it's the best Gordon we have ever had, the best Two Face, and a super hero film that the hero in question DOESN'T save the girl. It's everything I wanted it to be and more, and it has nothing to do with the hype.

Throw rocks at me, crucify me if you will... I will never back down from that belief.

I don't think I or anyone else ever said that the movie is "better because Heath died". The common thought - which I 100% agree with - is that BOX OFFICE is higher because of the death and hype surrounding it. (Box office has nothing to do with quality, as we all know.) It also helps that it's a very well-put-together film. Soooo, you combine all the Batman fans who were gonna see it multiple times no matter what, together with the gossipy "I want to see Heath in his final role" types (unfortunately for my sex, mostly women), mix it with a great film, and bingo - box office gold!


Just curious and completely serious...

what part/(s) did Joker ROCK?!?

I mean his scenes were some of the most violent in the film, or are you refering to Batman's character?

For all the futility and fan-boys out here, I'm just taking the opportunity to research the Venus mind and the rare occasion that many, many Females enjoyed Dark Knight, perhaps as much as Mama Mia!

To put it simply, Batman is not my favorite of superheroes. He's way too serious - pun intended :lol I prefer the Batman of the first 2 Burton films. I stand by my believe that The Joker is by far the best part of TDK. Yeah he's super violent, but pretty much the only good laughs and 'OMFG, did you see that?!' moments come from his erratic and incredible behavior. He's so morbid you just can't look away... and yet, in some weird way, you kinda feel bad for him too. THAT'S a great character.

Travis is the biggest Batman fan you'll ever meet (he wants the middle name of our kid to be 'Gotham' for goodness sake!), and can go on and on with the best of you about why Batman rocks, physically and psychologically. But even he admits that his LEAST favorite part - of both TDK and BB - is the Batman character... well, second behind the ridiculous addition of Rachel Dawes that is :lol Batman is just kinda weak in these films, when compared with the comics and more recent graphic novels. You care much more about the bad guys. Which I kinda like because the bad guys are just so awesome! Batman is actually defined, moreso than most other superheroes I think, by his villains - at least in the films. Perhaps because Batman himself is so close to being a villain - he just is a couple steps away. I think that's what makes him so appealing to many people too. Just not me.

Either way, I still feel that both BB and TDK are slightly over-rated. Not that they aren't great films... just that they aren't the second-coming of film-making ;) WALL-E is by far the best film of the summer for me, and I will be very very disappointed if it's not up for Best Picture. Although I do wholeheartedly agree that Heath deserves a nod for Best Actor (and not because he died).

As for Gotham as a city, I'm pretty sure they were just using New York, no? Didn't they even refer to streets from New York, adding in a few 'made up' places like Arkham? And just like NYC, Gotham is not all bad, but the media (and Batman) tend to focus on the worst. Maybe that's why Batman's not my cup of tea, and never has been - I tend to focus on the positive :confused:

Don't get me wrong, the movie is great. I will probably not see it again anytime soon though - twice is plenty for now. When the third comes out, I'll have a Batman marathon, but until then, I've had my fill of The Dark Knight.

CelticPredator
08-08-2008, 11:52 AM
Also, I don't think I would put Nolan's or Burton's Batman over each other. Both are timeless, but completely different animals. Like your favorite monthly book, creative teams constantly change. I just happen to really like the last go round.

.

The perfect answer. I agree 1000000%. In fact, I just might go watch Batman right now....ceyah!

The Josh
08-08-2008, 12:30 PM
I don't think I or anyone else ever said that the movie is "better because Heath died". The common thought - which I 100% agree with - is that BOX OFFICE is higher because of the death and hype surrounding it. (Box office has nothing to do with quality, as we all know.) It also helps that it's a very well-put-together film. Soooo, you combine all the Batman fans who were gonna see it multiple times no matter what, together with the gossipy "I want to see Heath in his final role" types (unfortunately for my sex, mostly women), mix it with a great film, and bingo - box office gold!

I'm sure the BO is higher cause of his death but I'm not sure its getting the bounce that some may suggest. This film is very well put together in all aspects. Like you Batman isn't my #1 so for me to go and see it and go back is a big deal. Then you toss in those others you mentioned and you're correct BOG.

I will disagree on another thing that I do think the BO does suggest that a film is fairly well put together.


To put it simply, Batman is not my favorite of superheroes. He's way too serious - pun intended :lol I prefer the Batman of the first 2 Burton films. I stand by my believe that The Joker is by far the best part of TDK. Yeah he's super violent, but pretty much the only good laughs and 'OMFG, did you see that?!' moments come from his erratic and incredible behavior. He's so morbid you just can't look away... and yet, in some weird way, you kinda feel bad for him too. THAT'S a great character.

Like I said he isn't my top either that goes to Wolverine. :rock I also agree that The Joker is the best part of TDK but its a two fold reason as to why. Heath does some of the best acting I've seen pulling this off but its also helped by how well Bale does pulling off Batman. I agree with you though for the reasons The Joker rocks. I took my sister to see it and countless times we looked at each other like did he seriously just do that. :lol


But even he admits that his LEAST favorite part - of both TDK and BB - is the Batman character... well, second behind the ridiculous addition of Rachel Dawes that is :lol Batman is just kinda weak in these films, when compared with the comics and more recent graphic novels. You care much more about the bad guys. Which I kinda like because the bad guys are just so awesome! Batman is actually defined, moreso than most other superheroes I think, by his villains - at least in the films. Perhaps because Batman himself is so close to being a villain - he just is a couple steps away. I think that's what makes him so appealing to many people too. Just not me.

The thing I like about Batman in these films compared to the others is they make him even more human. That close as you said to being bad guy. Yes, he's a "superhero" but he is just one wrong move away from going into the abyss. That to me is why this Batman is better than the others and helps me care for a character that isn't my fave. I cared much more for Batman in BB than Liam Neeson character. I kept rooting for both The Joker and Batman in TDK though as I wanted to see more back and forth. So I personally cared for both equally but I admit a sick sense of I wanted to see the next really wrong thing The Joker would do. :lol Rachel Dawes was a weak character overall but she was better in TDK but they killed her off which is a good thing really. :lol



Either way, I still feel that both BB and TDK are slightly over-rated. Not that they aren't great films... just that they aren't the second-coming of film-making ;) WALL-E is by far the best film of the summer for me, and I will be very very disappointed if it's not up for Best Picture. Although I do wholeheartedly agree that Heath deserves a nod for Best Actor (and not because he died).

I agree on BB. Its a good film but its not the best film ever by any stretch but I have to TDK is one of the better films I've seen in a while. Haven't seen Wall-E but for me its Iron Man and TDK as the two best with Indy Third, Hellboy 2, and The Mummy rapping things up. Heath though should be nominated as he pulled off one heck of a job.

Hope you don't mind the MQ Dusty. :duff

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 08:18 PM
I guess the reason Batman does it for me, as far as a quality character is concerned, is just as the movie implies...

difficult choices, the hard choices...

It's probably easier to give into the rage and the zero responsibility, but here you have someone that takes a tragedy (as tragedy is common in everyone's life) and strives to make that into something positive. It's not just lemonade from lemons, he drives himself to his ultimate potential.

This is a favorite theme of mine and Batman/Bruce, not being a "perfect" person by any means, is a great study in this journey. He has his flaws, but that doesn't stop him from pressing on.

The Joker to me is awesome, but doesn't quite rustle me the same way because his one trick is he's cccrrraaazzzyy! Crazy in the way we can almost relate to, but crazy nonetheless. Remember, we're all sheep! With little back story, you get a sense that life played him the wrong set of cards. That is, if we're to believe the ever "evolving" story about how he got his scars. Nice props' to "Mad Love" BTW!!! He's almost Batman's mirror extreme. In fact TDK is filled with duality themes of what do you do when you get screwed. How do you handle it??? Batman has his way, Joker has his and Harvey was tragically, somewhere inbetween.

I think we fall in love the villian for great reasons, but perhaps I lean in a minority that believes in the selflessness of a hero that endeavors to become something more/better than where they started out.


That and I'm pretty sure it was Chicago and Tokyo that the first unit filmed.

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 08:31 PM
....or in much shorter terms and in a less rambling way, I think the "human element" , that Josh refers to, makes it more appealing than just duking it out with your arch nemesis.

I'm all gooey inside:o

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 08:35 PM
and now I notice I'm officially 3 posts past a "Freakazoid"!!!!

PAR'TAY

DarkArtist81
08-08-2008, 08:47 PM
I guess the reason Batman does it for me, as far as a quality character is concerned, is just as the movie implies...

difficult choices, the hard choices...

It's probably easier to give into the rage and the zero responsibility, but here you have someone that takes a tragedy (as tragedy is common in everyone's life) and strives to make that into something positive. It's not just lemonade from lemons, he drives himself to his ultimate potential.

This is a favorite theme of mine and Batman/Bruce, not being a "perfect" person by any means, is a great study in this journey. He has his flaws, but that doesn't stop him from pressing on.

The Joker to me is awesome, but doesn't quite rustle me the same way because his one trick is he's cccrrraaazzzyy! Crazy in the way we can almost relate to, but crazy nonetheless. Remember, we're all sheep! With little back story, you get a sense that life played him the wrong set of cards. That is, if we're to believe the ever "evolving" story about how he got his scars. Nice props' to "Mad Love" BTW!!! He's almost Batman's mirror extreme. In fact TDK is filled with duality themes of what do you do when you get screwed. How do you handle it??? Batman has his way, Joker has his and Harvey was tragically, somewhere inbetween.

I think we fall in love the villian for great reasons, but perhaps I lean in a minority that believes in the selflessness of a hero that endeavors to become something more/better than where they started out.


That and I'm pretty sure it was Chicago and Tokyo that the first unit filmed.

You hit the same points I was going to make. Batman is my favorite superhero by far, and most of that is because of the personal connection I made to him in my youth. When my Mother died I became introverted and a bit twisted. I attempted suicide, I raged out at my Father and my friends... further isolating myself. I got thrown out of class and I even stopped drawing because it reminded me too much of my Mother... who was the artist that started me down the path.

But it was in the comics that I found salvation, a bit of hope in the darkness of my despair. Batman's story appealed to me greatly, taking tragedy and making it work in your favor. Not blaming the world like the Joker or blaming others like Harvey did, but rather doing your best to do the right thing... that really hit home for me. Batman gave me hope for myself and it pulled me out of the poisonous destiny I was no doubt headed towards.

This film, to me, takes the theme of Batman a bit further. It pits three people who have all been screwed over by someone against each other, only their principals are different. And in that, I saw myself. Batman was the man I strive to be, Joker was the man I could have been and Harvey is more like me when I briefly dropped into darkness again (ironically after losing part of my face in surgery and control of the right side of my face afterwards). So the writing of this film again hit home, I guess that is why I love it so much.

And Dusty, I respect your opinion and I understand where you and Travis are coming from. I guess my take on it is kinda skewed by my own personal connection to Batman and the villains of this particular tale. :duff

adambadadam
08-08-2008, 09:02 PM
You hit the same points I was going to make. Batman is my favorite superhero by far, and most of that is because of the personal connection I made to him in my youth. When my Mother died I became introverted and a bit twisted. I attempted suicide, I raged out at my Father and my friends... further isolating myself. I got thrown out of class and I even stopped drawing because it reminded me too much of my Mother... who was the artist that started me down the path.

But it was in the comics that I found salvation, a bit of hope in the darkness of my despair. Batman's story appealed to me greatly, taking tragedy and making it work in your favor. Not blaming the world like the Joker or blaming others like Harvey did, but rather doing your best to do the right thing... that really hit home for me. Batman gave me hope for myself and it pulled me out of the poisonous destiny I was no doubt headed towards.

This film, to me, takes the theme of Batman a bit further. It pits three people who have all been screwed over by someone against each other, only their principals are different. And in that, I saw myself. Batman was the man I strive to be, Joker was the man I could have been and Harvey is more like me when I briefly dropped into darkness again (ironically after losing part of my face in surgery and control of the right side of my face afterwards). So the writing of this film again hit home, I guess that is why I love it so much.

And Dusty, I respect your opinion and I understand where you and Travis are coming from. I guess my take on it is kinda skewed by my own personal connection to Batman and the villains of this particular tale. :duff

WIN :blackbat