View Full Version : Paypal, funding w/ CC...scam...how get $ back...hypothetical
01-05-2005, 09:24 AM
Ok. My lingo may sound funny, but basically I'm trying to determine how this would work and if anyone has actually done this. I haven't had this scenario happen yet, but just trying to figure out how best to handle something like this.
Buy an item with Paypal funded by credit card.
Seller doesn't ship.
Now...do you have to go through your credit card to try and get your $$$ back? If so, does the credit card just reverse the charge and Paypal takes the $ from your Paypal balance or gives you a negative balance? So in effect you've gained nothing? I thought I heard this somewhere, so if you use Paypal...even with a credit card...there is a chance you might end up with zilch?
Anyone have any experience with this?
01-05-2005, 10:26 AM
No exp yet like that, but a nice scarey thought for the new year. Thanks J!
lol, Just playing you bring up a good point.
I have switched over to using The Paypal Buyer Credit, pretty just a CC for use with Paypal only. One of the perks is it is all kinda in house so I am hoping if ever I should have a promblem ~ it's a PP CC so it's just one set of phone calls
But heres:thwak :ent You don't have to worry about it
01-05-2005, 03:39 PM
You want to read some bad news about Paypal and horror stories???
To sum up though:
To enumerate the complaints:
1. According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. Is this legal? We don't know. But it's how Paypal operates. See my credit card waiver page for more information.
2. Their customer service is horrible. They used to hide their telephone number, (intentionally - by their own admission) and only provided support via "form" emails:
"As for the customer service, Sollitto said they intentionally make the phone number very difficult to find in order to save costs."
If you have a problem, you are at their mercy! (And you will eventually have a problem.) The only reason their number can be found at all is because they had to by law (EFTA Electronic Funds Transaction Act). Or you can click on our FAQs page. Just scroll down a bit, and you'll find their phone numbers, plus their toll free numbers as well, plus a huge list of unpublished PayPal phone numbers.
3. Their terms of service are not completely disclosed upon signup and some key "conditions" are not disclosed. No place do they openly tell potential members that their money is 100% at risk. That PayPal can, will, and has in the past, completely cleaned out customers' accounts, (including your checking or savings account) with no appeals process available. No place do they tell you that PayPal can close your account for any reason what-so-ever, or no reason, and then you have to wait 180 days to get your money. Think that'll never happen? Think again. That's what everyone thinks till it happens to them.
4. If PayPal feels your actions are questionable, PayPal is the investigator, judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant. They also refuse to provide you with the details of their investigation and withhold documents they relied upon to make their decisions. Your only contact will be an email that says:
Thank you for contacting PayPal. We apologize for the delay in respondingto your service request.
After review, the decision has been made to keep your account locked. This decision cannot be appealed.
If you have any further questions, please reply to this email.
That will be the end of it as far as PayPal is concerned. You can email back, but you'll just get more of the same. Oh yea, and you'll have to wait 180 days to get your money.
5. If you are a bona fide, up-standing individual with hundreds of successful transactions, but someone pays you with a stolen credit card, your account (by PayPal's own admission) is immediately flagged as being "criminal behavior" and any money in that account is confiscated. If a customer "disputes" the charge, same thing happens. (See email above.)
6. Paypal's fees for NON-credit card funding are the same as for credit cards! This is the single biggest rippoff on their site. We understand Paypal charging a fee when you fund your account with a credit card. After all, they are being charged by Visa/Mastercard, etc. And we understand there is a lot of fraud with credit card funding. However, most of the money sent within the Paypal system no longer comes from credit card funding. However, money spent from PayPal account to PayPal account is subject to the exact same fees credit card purchases are! This money has been in the system for years and is "clean." That is, there are no fees at all to Paypal, and there is almost no fraud at all with this money, but Paypal charges the SAME fees to transactions with NON-credit card funds! Thus every transaction makes PayPal money, but it's nothing more than an entry in a computer database on their system. No money has actually moved, and there are no costs to Paypal. They are just skimming the gravy
01-05-2005, 03:52 PM
For the telephone numbers of Paypal to make complaints, etc.
01-05-2005, 04:34 PM
Dear god.... I have always hated the fee's but...whew
when I first started selling on evilbay ~ Someone bought a bass pedal off me for something like $40.00 offered tracking, ins blah they didn't take it...so they paid pp, I rushed sent it out the next day and 2 days later they had filed a claim againts me and b/c I could not provide tracking #er's I was left swinging until they recived it 2 days later and withdrew the claim. I had about $600 off the auction I had been holding in there, it was crazy I never felt so helpless and p*ssed at the same time
01-05-2005, 07:41 PM
I had an unusual transaction (high amount) and they flagged my account, froze the funds and forced me to prove I sent the item, even though I had no way of knowing if Paypal would ever release the funds to me. I was the criminal just because I got paid a large amount in one transaction. It was very scary, especially considering the sum involved.
Paypal does well and truly suck!
01-05-2005, 10:46 PM
So, everyone talks about making sure to fund purchases through Paypal with a credit card. What advantage does this give you?
So is this true or not?
If you dispute the claim and the credit card approves you just get the money back on the credit card, but then Paypal still wants their money since the credit card has taken it away from them and subtracts the amount from any balance you may have at that time or gives you a negative balance and suspends your account...is this correct?
I'm just wondering why everyone says to pay with your credit card through Paypal. Or does the dispute with the credit card just get 'refunded' to your credit card and Paypal is never issued a chargeback(or whatever you call it), so nothing happens to your Paypal account.
I always thought if you disputed and the credit card approved...they would try to issue a chargeback (or whatever it's called) against where the charge initially came from...in this case your Paypal account.
01-05-2005, 11:23 PM
I haven't had to use it yet, but I have a seperate bank account for paypal. Thus if I paid for something with a credit card, disputed and was refunded by the CC company; Paypal wouldn't be able to clean out my bank account to reimburse itself from a charge back. not sure if it will work, but I feel better doing it this way.
01-06-2005, 05:27 AM
I did this not too long ago. It was for a part for my car. $88 and change. Didn't receive item (not through an auction), no answers to emails, even sent a snail mail to his address I got from somebody else that got screwed, and nothing. Called my credit card company, gave all the details. She was amazed with how much detail I had. Keep track of all correspondence until you receive the item and determine there are no issues. Anyways, they credited back my card, but told me that if the seller disputes the claim there could be issues. They were going to then try to get the money back from him. I took that to mean his bank account, or possibly his Paypal account. I never heard anything else about it, so I assume he didn't dispute. Happy ending.
I always pay with a credit card through Paypal, mostly because I don't have the cash for the item and I'm a bad person and carry a balance, although I have some money in my Paypal account now because I just sold some things. I think you have a better chance of getting your money back from your credit card company than from Paypal, just from what I've heard from other people. As long as you don't do it a lot, I would imagine you 'd not have any problems.
01-06-2005, 05:42 AM
Let me get this right. You funded the purchase through Paypal with your credit card. No item. Disputed it and the credit card just gave you your money back? Did your Paypal account get debited or anything? I was always under the impression that the credit card would try to get the money back from the transactions originatation point...in this case your Paypal account. I hope if I ever need to do this that things work out this well also.
01-06-2005, 09:05 AM
Yes that's right. They did not debit my Paypal account. At the time I don't think there was anything in it anyways though. They did tell me that they may end up putting the charge back on if the seller disputed the claim and the case came out in his favor, but I never heard anything else about it again. Lucky for me I guess.
I would think that most credit card companies have some form of buyer protection to protect you from a bad purchase. I think mine will go up to 90 days, which is a lot better than Paypal's 30 day policy. That's a big part of why I use my credit card for these types of purchases.
01-06-2005, 09:28 AM
Ok. I guess it'll all depend, but I'm just hoping to avoid the Paypal account getting debited because I'll still be losing the money or Paypal would lock my account. I guess it must be some type of write of for CC companies. Thanks for the info.
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