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Ultimate Weapon
05-16-2008, 06:30 PM
I've held back on this statement for a long time - ever since Episode III was released in fact. So here it is:

I really didn't like the Episode III clonetroopers as much as the Episode II clonetroopers.

There, I said it. I understand the whole thing that Lucas was trying to do in bridging the designs of the prequel trilogy with the original trilogy. I understand the progression and the change. I also understand that he wanted it to seem that once the Empire took over everything simply hit a standstill as far as design and production goes. I get that too.

When it comes down to it I think the change was pushed too far between EPII and EPIII. So in EPIII we've got Biker Scouts, Snowtroopers and essentially a dozen slightly different stormtroopers. And then for another twenty years everything stops, except that all color variants and individualized markings disappear from all armor as evidenced by the OT. If the EPII Clones had been allowed to exist in EPIII, I don't think anyone would not have been able to make the leap in logic that these guys would eventually become the modern era stormtroopers. It also would have created a stronger visual connection between EPII and EPIII. AOTC isn't my favorite prequel movie, but the clone design was awesome.

I'm not trying to further complaints about the prequels, I just think the EPII clones got shafted and I would have liked to see them in EPIII as well. I think it would have been more feasible to believe that in the twenty years between EPIII and EPIV that the clones would have evolved into stormtroopers, lost the markings and developed more specialized gear; snowtroopers, biker scouts, etc.

So anyone else out there prefer the EPII style? I really can't wait for Sideshow to announce an EPII Clone - giant blaster rifle and all.

Shai
05-16-2008, 06:33 PM
:google:google:google

FlyAndFight
05-16-2008, 06:46 PM
Thread rated...

Oh wait! I can't! :monkey2

Ultimate Weapon
05-16-2008, 06:53 PM
That bad, huh?
:o

FlyAndFight
05-16-2008, 06:57 PM
Just buggin' ya... ;)

Cmdr Gree
05-16-2008, 06:58 PM
The AOTC Clones are my favourite as well.
Better and more innovative design. I do still like all the variations of the ROTS Clones, and their meaner look goes better with their turn at Order 66.

vader70450
05-16-2008, 07:04 PM
prequels?.what?..there were prequels? :emperor

OSCORP
05-16-2008, 07:06 PM
1. i like the ep2 clones more as well.
2. they're movies.


:huh

PosterBoyKelly
05-16-2008, 07:07 PM
Nothing beats Stormtroopers and their awkward ways BUT I do prefer II to III. The III Clones looked like retarded Stormtroopers, and I get that they were kinda halfsy's of the 2, but I, like the Sith, deal in absolutes. No half bull crap. :emperor

Coorectghosting
05-16-2008, 08:58 PM
It would be weird to go straight from the Mandalorian flavored helmet design to the vastly different demented skull look.

But maybe most clones should have still had the Phase 1 design in Ep III. Their commanders and squad leaders would be Phase 2. That would have worked

I wonder if that Snowtrooper Commander or whatever he was that was on the AT-AT with Veers was the last Imperial trooper that had any degree of customization. It's kinda weird. I mean he shouldn't be the only one. But then if there were others we just didn't see was there some rule that Commanders can only have so much flair? Apparently the Emperor gave in slightly to this military tradition of having the right to customization if you're a commander. and then only for your cold weather gear? wtf

minivader
05-17-2008, 03:46 AM
in terms of looks alone, i prefer ep2's clones than ep3 as well. overall i think there are so many holes in the prequels that its not unusual to find things just doesn't hook up with what was created before.

BuddyGus
05-17-2008, 03:59 AM
I definetly liked the episode II trooper better, but i guess the quick advancements to the armor were easy for me to buy off on. Spending time in the military has shown me that clothing and equipment advance extremely fast during times of war. Unlike times of normal police actions were you just get by with what ya got.

Puay
05-17-2008, 04:04 AM
Isn't the armor on the new General Kenobi figure exactly that wore by the Episode II Clonetroopers. All SSC need is to sculpt the helmet and the blaster and we will have the trooper.

Khev
05-17-2008, 04:43 AM
I wonder if that Snowtrooper Commander or whatever he was that was on the AT-AT with Veers was the last Imperial trooper that had any degree of customization.

How was he customized? Looked like normal Snowtrooper gear to me.

Blackhole
05-17-2008, 04:57 AM
Uhhh....I thought only the helmet was different as far as looks go...

Apparently Ep III armour is more comfortable...

BuddyGus
05-17-2008, 05:03 AM
If I remember right, the only difference on the trooper in the AT-AT is that he had rank bars on his chest plate.

DarkArtist81
05-17-2008, 05:07 AM
I definetly liked the episode II trooper better, but i guess the quick advancements to the armor were easy for me to buy off on. Spending time in the military has shown me that clothing and equipment advance extremely fast during times of war. Unlike times of normal police actions were you just get by with what ya got.

Same here... I liked both designs. And being ex military, I understood the change. With uniforms, it doesn't matter if the design isn't pleasing to the eye. If the military high command wants the upgrade, they will do so. It's just like the digital camo that came out a few years ago. Many people didn't like it, but it still happened.

Coorectghosting
05-17-2008, 09:30 AM
The one I was referring to not only had a different helmet but also he wore standard Stormtrooper forearm armor, repositioned shoulder bells like AT-AT drivers, no kneepads, AT-AT driver boots, side holster with Han Solo type blaster, and no backpack. and i think AT-AT driver gloves with a comm unit on the left glove

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3478/sn5yc3.th.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sn5yc3.jpg)
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8328/sn6lx2.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sn6lx2.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5751/sn7yv0.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sn7yv0.jpg)

BuddyGus
05-17-2008, 09:40 AM
Yowza! Guess I overlooked a few things. Well, gives me a reason to watch the OT again. :naughty

Coorectghosting
05-17-2008, 09:43 AM
You can only see the upper half of him in the movie. and those backstage photos are missing two shiny metal discs on the side of his helmet. had those in the movie

Khev
05-17-2008, 10:08 AM
The one I was referring to not only had a different helmet but also he wore standard Stormtrooper forearm armor, repositioned shoulder bells like AT-AT drivers, no kneepads, AT-AT driver boots, side holster with Han Solo type blaster, and no backpack. and i think AT-AT driver gloves with a comm unit on the left glove

Interesting. You learn something new everyday. But he wasn't the only OT Trooper with customization. The Sandtroopers had different colored pauldrons apparently based on rank.

Coorectghosting
05-17-2008, 11:23 AM
Yeah and some minor differences in armor. I think the Sandtroopers were actually just an elite squad and not specifically designed for desert worlds. I could see them being dropped on a jungle world or whatever.

But other than that you don't see any one unique Stormtrooper amongst a crowd of them. Nor for the Biker Scouts. It's a funny little quirk that there's only one guy left with an altered outfit and he probably doesn't even wear it that often since it's only his cold weather gear. maybe he has an altered Stormtrooper outfit too for other times. it's like he did some favor for the Emperor and now he's allowed some flair

shocktrooper_au
05-17-2008, 04:47 PM
Not to mention the Tie pilots also had different markings on the helmets
The thing I found wrong with Ep2 was the build up of the army the troops where all made in secret....
Did nobody notice all those battle ships, spacecraft and walkers being built? WTF
But any way I can buy the upgrade in design it was war, changes needed to be made, why so little change after Ep3 to Ep4 ? Maybe it was because the Empire went from all out war to a police state where redesign/upgrade wasn't required (and only militarily active troops could mod armour)..
Heck the Biker scouts rode bikes that the Jedi's had 20yrs before them

BuddyGus
05-20-2008, 11:11 AM
If SSC makes an Ep II clone I am so getting two so one can become an ARC trooper. The coolest of the EP II designs.

Mooncat
05-20-2008, 11:46 AM
Hypothosis :

and unless Lucas has said that the majority of stormtroopers in OT were remnance of Clones then it might stand

What if in the PT because they were clones, were encouraged to try and excel within the ranks ? hence the differentiations ?

In the OT maybe the stormies were populated with differing species within the armour and differentiation was promoted less ??

OK SITHLORD
05-20-2008, 12:58 PM
50/50 maybe

Ultimate Weapon
05-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Didn't the clones (with the exception of Boba) have an excelerated growth rate? I think they aged at twice the rate of a normal person, or was it more? If so then it would stand to reason that in twenty years, by the time ANH rolls around, very few clones would be left. Twenty years would put them at 40, and if you figure they had to be about 18 or so by the time they were full fledged clone troopers to beginw ith, that makes any clones still kicking 76 years old by normal standards.

Maybe the uniformity of the stormtroopers also denotes the uniformity of the Empire, as the individualism displayed by the Clonetroopers of the Grand Republic army was no longer necessary.

hairlesswookiee
05-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Same here... I liked both designs. And being ex military, I understood the change. With uniforms, it doesn't matter if the design isn't pleasing to the eye. If the military high command wants the upgrade, they will do so. It's just like the digital camo that came out a few years ago. Many people didn't like it, but it still happened.

TRUTH!!! i remember the fiasco back in 2002 when the Army adopted the black beret for all troops. The Rangers were seriously pissed off as that was their trademark up to that point. Oh well, they have the Tan beret now.... my brother is trying to get his commander to endorse his paperwork to go to Ranger school. i hope he gets it...thats something i wish i would've done back in my youth.

Eukalyptus
05-20-2008, 04:23 PM
Twenty years would put them at 40, and if you figure they had to be about 18 or so by the time they were full fledged clone troopers to beginw ith, that makes any clones still kicking 76 years old by normal standards.
The first clones were about 8 to 9 years old at the time of the Clone Wars, many of them were 5 years old, still appearing as children to a Jedi's senses. That puts them around 50 for ANH, 56 for Empire and 58 for Jedi.

Coorectghosting
05-20-2008, 04:54 PM
I can't see the Empire abandoning the clone technology for their armies. They probably found a new guy to clone from along with volunteers.

There weren't any Stormtroopers with a Jango accent. didn't the clones have that accent?

OK SITHLORD
05-20-2008, 05:11 PM
I can't see the Empire abandoning the clone technology for their armies. They probably found a new guy to clone from along with volunteers.

There weren't any Stormtroopers with a Jango accent. didn't the clones have that accent?

Just a theory but the troops regardless of kinds ,they were different sizes and heights right

Coorectghosting
05-20-2008, 05:33 PM
Yes definitely in ANH. i don't seem to remember any height differences among them in ESB and ROTJ.

I think maybe after the Rebellion's first major victory in blowing up the Death Star there was a major reduction in volunteers joining the Empire.

BuddyGus
05-22-2008, 02:35 AM
I don't think the empire used the clone program as much after the war. Seems like they began forced recruitment from planets to fill the ranks.

Blackhole
05-22-2008, 04:57 AM
In 11 BBY, the cloners of Kamino rebelled against the Galactic Empire by using their cloning technologies to launch a war against the Empire. The Empire retaliated with a massive assault on Tipoca City. Boba Fett, with his extensive knowledge of the complex, led the 501st Legion into the corridors of the cloning complex to disable the cloning technology. As the remaining resistance attempted to flee, two of their LAAT/i evacuation transports were shot out of the air.

This uprising provoked Palpatine, who had now made himself Emperor, to decide that an army of genetically identical clones presented too many possibilities of turning against him, just as they had done to the Jedi. Thus, it was through this radical reform that the Fett clones would gradually become overshadowed under a pool of clones from different genetic templates and many more birth-born recruits. Although the Jango Fett template would still certainly be used to produce more clone stormtroopers, the Fett clones would rapidly become lost under the number of recruits, conscripts, and different genetic template-based clones. For all of their loyalty to the Republic/Empire and their unrivaled fighting skills, the Fett clones were "rewarded with the chance" to fight alongside "inferior" and far less skilled soldiers. None of the Fett clones, especially those belonging to the "Fett-pure" 501st would ever truly grow used to fighting alongside the non-Fett stormtroopers that they dubbed as the "new guys".

Ultimately, the cloning program that was used to produce almost 50 percent of the stormtrooper ranks was finally ended with the defeat of the Galactic Empire via the Battle of Endor. After Palpatine and Vader's death, clones became increasingly rare and obsolete as the remnants of the Empire turned to birth-born recruits, both Human and non-Human alike.

So there...they did still use clones, but the Fett template became rarer, until it was barely used at all...

Oh, and by the time of the Legacy comics, about 137ABY, aliens were allowed to be stormtroopers, and women were allowed into the 501st.

Eukalyptus
05-22-2008, 07:23 AM
In 11 BBY, the cloners of Kamino rebelled against the Galactic Empire by using their cloning technologies to launch a war against the Empire. The Empire retaliated with a massive assault on Tipoca City. Boba Fett, with his extensive knowledge of the complex, led the 501st Legion into the corridors of the cloning complex to disable the cloning technology. As the remaining resistance attempted to flee, two of their LAAT/i evacuation transports were shot out of the air.
BF2 is not canon, even for EU standards.

Captain Faramir
05-22-2008, 09:48 AM
Blackhole, what's your source for all of that information?

Blackhole
05-22-2008, 02:45 PM
Wookieepedia...all classed under the canon laws...

Anything non-canon wouldn't be in that quote, or would have been marked...

Hey, I don't make the rules...

Eukalyptus
05-23-2008, 06:04 AM
In 11 BBY, the cloners of Kamino rebelled against the Galactic Empire by using their cloning technologies to launch a war against the Empire. The Empire retaliated with a massive assault on Tipoca City. Boba Fett, with his extensive knowledge of the complex, led the 501st Legion into the corridors of the cloning complex to disable the cloning technology. As the remaining resistance attempted to flee, two of their LAAT/i evacuation transports were shot out of the air.

This uprising provoked Palpatine, who had now made himself Emperor, to decide that an army of genetically identical clones presented too many possibilities of turning against him, just as they had done to the Jedi. Thus, it was through this radical reform that the Fett clones would gradually become overshadowed under a pool of clones from different genetic templates and many more birth-born recruits. Although the Jango Fett template would still certainly be used to produce more clone stormtroopers, the Fett clones would rapidly become lost under the number of recruits, conscripts, and different genetic template-based clones. For all of their loyalty to the Republic/Empire and their unrivaled fighting skills, the Fett clones were "rewarded with the chance" to fight alongside "inferior" and far less skilled soldiers. None of the Fett clones, especially those belonging to the "Fett-pure" 501st would ever truly grow used to fighting alongside the non-Fett stormtroopers that they dubbed as the "new guys".

This is taken from the Battlefront II game. BF2 is not canon, its not even considered part of the EU. The 501st was not on every vital mission in SW history, its just an element of the game to give you something linear.

Blackhole
05-23-2008, 06:24 AM
That mission is canon according to wookieepedia...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Kamino_%28Imperial_Era%29

Mentioned in Bloodlines and Sacrifice...

That makes it canon according to the EU...

Eukalyptus
05-23-2008, 09:56 AM
That mission is canon according to wookieepedia...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Kamino_%28Imperial_Era%29

Mentioned in Bloodlines and Sacrifice...

That makes it canon according to the EU...
Accepted - for this mission. Those are Traviss' books aren't they?

Blackhole
05-23-2008, 10:00 AM
Methinks...

And you're right, not everything is canon...but it does make for some great gameplay...

Darthrazz
05-23-2008, 10:09 AM
After seeing ROTS, I kind of wish that Lucas could add some sort of camo to the stormtroopers on Endor, when he finally releases the Ultimate Star Wars collection.

Coorectghosting
05-23-2008, 10:46 AM
No no no... it wasn't like camo was a widespread thing in the Clone Army. Like some had the orange markings, some had the blue, and some were camouflaged. The Empire was all about a new galactic order and there was barely any room for individuality.

Blackhole
05-23-2008, 11:20 AM
Nothing says no fear like trudging into battle in stark all white armour...

After the Battle of Endor, there were more camo troopers...but still not that many...

And for my own tastes, the best color variation of the stormtroopers is BLACK...