Jedi, cool warriors for peace, or just an easy target?

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chewblacca

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I just got through watching the clone wars cartoon, and was wondering how the Jedi were so easy to kill in episode two by the droids at the end, and by the clones in episode three, but Mace Windu took out a whole army by himself during a sandstorm in the cartoon?
 
I just got through watching the clone wars cartoon, and was wondering how the Jedi were so easy to kill in episode two by the droids at the end, and by the clones in episode three, but Mace Windu took out a whole army by himself during a sandstorm in the cartoon?

I believe the official Lucasfilm stance on the whole Mace vs the Droid Army is that it wasn't to be taken literally.
 
I just got through watching the clone wars cartoon, and was wondering how the Jedi were so easy to kill in episode two by the droids at the end, and by the clones in episode three, but Mace Windu took out a whole army by himself during a sandstorm in the cartoon?

I love the CW cartoons but this is usually the one scene I skip over :monkey1
 
I love the title of this thread. "Peace Warriors." Someone needs to make a movie with that title. The Peace Warriors could be led by Will Farrell...or Jack Black. :)
 
I believe the official Lucasfilm stance on the whole Mace vs the Droid Army is that it wasn't to be taken literally.

WOW... I actually agree with you!!! :monkey1:lol

I think it's the point of view from the Kid on the hill.
 
Well, don't forget how powerful they made Jedis to be in Force Unleashed! As I stated somewhere before, I fear the day they make Jedi flying around like Superman!
 
TFU and the (first) CW cartoon are clearly stylized and one has to assume that if you want them to fit in with the rest of the universe, you have to treat them almost as if they're "tall tales" or exaggerated versions of actual events (e.g. "Mace Windu? Oh he was seven feet tall and snorted fire...I never saw him myself you understand, but I once spoke to a spacer who saw him in action and...")

In fact, I seem to recall that either the ROTS novelization or Labyrinth of Evil referenced the Mace scene and strongly implied that the details of the event had been exaggerated through retelling.
 
because Samuel L. Jackson wont let any Mo'^^^^er stand in his way. nuff said. end of discussion. you can find a mod to lock this thread now.
 
because Samuel L. Jackson wont let any Mo'^^^^er stand in his way. nuff said. end of discussion. you can find a mod to lock this thread now.

Sam Jackson will just unlock it. He can do that. He's *that* badassed.

I want him to force choke someone when he's playing Nick Fury in the Avengers movie. Then I want him to turn to the camera and say, "IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! I'M SAM F'N JACKSON!" Then he'd hold his hand up and force choke the audience. And we'd thank him for it. He's *that* badassed.
 
Sam Jackson will just unlock it. He can do that. He's *that* badassed.

I want him to force choke someone when he's playing Nick Fury in the Avengers movie. Then I want him to turn to the camera and say, "IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! I'M SAM F'N JACKSON!" Then he'd hold his hand up and force choke the audience. And we'd thank him for it. He's *that* badassed.

:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock
 
and here we are... I like Mace Windu as a character, but I dislike him when he devolves into Sam Jackson. Mace is about keeping the Jedi Order under control, not being a bad MFer. I think people need to reign in Sam Jackson's leash a little.
I find it embarassing that there's 2 stand out black characters in Star Wars, and they are reduced to stereotypes of Blacksploitation by the fans. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade here, but think about it, please.

As for the greater topic, I see the Clone Wars as a fun cartoon, not as canon (which is a whole other sack of snakes [not on a plane, please ;)]). If you want to see the impressive skills of Mace in action, check out the book Labyrinth of Evil, which ties II and III together in a more cinematic and semi-realistic way as opposed to the flashy, ADD inspired cartoons.

Also, were they easy targets... I think two things are at play here. One, the Jedi hubris. These mystical warriors have been unopposed for a long ass time, and suddenly there's Sith and droids coming out of the woodwork. They never saw it coming because it never occurred to them to look, or that the Sith might actually be around. Second, much like how gunpowder spelled the end of the Samurai, blasters spelled the end of the lightsaber. To get this, you need to let the KOTOR go a little. Guns always beat swords, no matter how fast you are. Now, if the Jedi carried both blasters and sabers, they would have stood a chance. But there were just too many droids, and Palpy was sending them to the far corners of the galaxy to thin them out, wear them down. It was perfect.
 
Correct.

Lightsabers > Blasters in a smaller setting.

Blasters > Lightsabers in the middle of a battlefield.

The Jedi really should not have been the generals of the Republic. Nor should they have been on the battlefield. Advisors? Yes.

Jedi would have done better in smaller skirmishes, with a small squad of supporting clones. Wearing robes, and swinging a glowing blade just shouts 'SHOOT ME' to the enemy.

Palpatine was a genius. Playing both sides of the battle, and managing to thin the Jedi ranks to ineffectiveness.
 
and here we are... I like Mace Windu as a character, but I dislike him when he devolves into Sam Jackson. Mace is about keeping the Jedi Order under control, not being a bad MFer.

And how is that kind of authority supposed to be effective in the hands of a lesser power?

I find it embarassing that there's 2 stand out black characters in Star Wars, and they are reduced to stereotypes of Blacksploitation by the fans. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade here, but think about it, please.

Don't presume to be finding skeletons in closets you've never opened. Racism is not as reliant upon 'unconscious' sanction as professionals in the social sciences would like to think, and I for one resent the insinuation.

What's more, the elements of black culture that provide grist for stereotypical humor are also the virtues that gave depth to characters who could as easily have developed in the greater universe, as they could in Harlem, Detroit or South Philly. It's to Lucas' infinite credit that he never cashed in on those stereotypes by creating those characters. He also deserves credit for having elevated those strengths into the purview of an epic drama.

If you want to see the impressive skills of Mace in action, check out the book Labyrinth of Evil, which ties II and III together in a more cinematic and semi-realistic way as opposed to the flashy, ADD inspired cartoons.

Shatterpoint also. And there's a difference between catering to a short attention span and conveying great significance in highly stylized vignettes, shorn of all non-essential information.

As for the rest, swords can't block bullets, the jedi had a clone army providing firepower, and their Achille's heel was less hubris than it was a lack of knowledge regarding what they were up against. They knew the sith were behind it, but none of them had first hand experience with the darkside. In every case save Anakin, the jedi flaw was naivete.
 
DEVILOF76? I know you from the RS forums... How's it going?

Point 1: I'm confused by your statement abour lesser powers. I'm saying he seemed like a character and then became the very recognizeable actor in brown robes instead of the other way around.

Point 2: SW stereotypes
I know they aren't running around in films and books eating fried chicken and crap, but the fan response is getting close to that. I see too many pimp Landos, Pimp Landos with Colt 45, not to mention afro'd pimp Windus out there. WHY ARE THEY PIMPS? It's not that funny to me, and to several black SW fans I've heard from on this topic. Hahaha, I know that sounds like the old " some of my best friends are _____" cliche.

Point 3: Yeah, the Jedi were just naiive. I'll have to put Shatterpoint on my list, esp since I'm a big fan of Heart of Darkness.
 
DEVILOF76? I know you from the RS forums... How's it going?
Going fine. Good to see you here.

Point 1: I'm confused by your statement abour lesser powers. I'm saying he seemed like a character and then became the very recognizeable actor in brown robes instead of the other way around.

It takes a BMF to be an effective voice of reason. But I don't think he crossed the line.

Point 2: SW stereotypes
I know they aren't running around in films and books eating fried chicken and crap, but the fan response is getting close to that. I see too many pimp Landos, Pimp Landos with Colt 45, not to mention afro'd pimp Windus out there. WHY ARE THEY PIMPS? It's not that funny to me, and to several black SW fans I've heard from on this topic.

I know what you mean. It's just a broad brush to paint with, especially with paint that's so hard to get out.

And Shatterpoint rocks. Not exactly Conrad, but literary creds aren't all that makes a story great.
 
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Books don't fix a movie for me.

They do for me! I love how the authors get to fill in all the blanks that Lucas left. I've never read so much in my life as I have when the Clone Wars books started coming out.
 
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