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Darth Waller
01-13-2008, 10:36 AM
Just a heads-up that Fox's new Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles is premiering tonight. I've got my HD DVR set to record this. Anyone else going to be watching?

From Fox.com
At the end of "Terminator 2: Judgment Day," Sarah vanquished the Terminator sent from the future to kill her teenage son, John. Sarah and John now find themselves alone in a very dangerous, complicated world. Fugitives from the law, they are confronted with the reality that still more enemies from the future, and the present, could attack at any moment.

TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES reveals what happens when SARAH (Lena Headey) stops running and goes on the offensive against an ever-evolving technological enemy bent on destroying her life, and perhaps the world. Her son, 15-year-old JOHN CONNOR (Thomas Dekker), knows that he may be the future savior of mankind, but is not yet ready to take on the mantle of leadership that he's told is his destiny. John finds himself inextricably drawn to CAMERON (Summer Glau), an enigmatic and otherworldly student at his high school, who soon proves to be much more than his confidante - she assumes the role of Sarah and John's fearless protector. On their trail are not only threats from the future, but an intelligent and tough FBI agent, JAMES ELLISON (Richard T.Jones), who soon becomes a powerful ally.

TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES represents an exciting reinvention of the "Terminator" franchise, in which the strong and intrepid Sarah discovers that protecting her son and stopping the rise of the machines is more difficult than she had ever imagined.

galactiboy
01-13-2008, 10:39 AM
I plan on watching it, but have very low expectations. Also, on one of the commercials I saw the Endoskeleton looked really cheaply done... kind of a bad CGI. I was hoping it was a WIP kind of thing, but hard to tell.

Also, I think there is a languishing thread on this show in the Aliens and Robots section.

Darth Waller
01-13-2008, 11:07 AM
Also, I think there is a languishing thread on this show in the Aliens and Robots section.

I searched but I couldn't find one. Part of the problem with being posting MIA for the last 8 months. :lol

BadMoon
01-13-2008, 11:15 AM
I plan on watching it, but have very low expectations. Also, on one of the commercials I saw the Endoskeleton looked really cheaply done... kind of a bad CGI. I was hoping it was a WIP kind of thing, but hard to tell.

Also, I think there is a languishing thread on this show in the Aliens and Robots section.

Fear not Galactiboy. Entertainment weekly gave this a great review. I am looking forward to it. To bad FX is not HD in my area yet. :rolleyes:

EVILFACE
01-13-2008, 11:16 AM
Will watch with low expectations as well. This show screws up what continuity there was between T2 and T3.

Vader AL
01-13-2008, 11:20 AM
thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten!

Eli26
01-13-2008, 11:21 AM
Will watch with low expectations as well. This show screws up what continuity there was between T2 and T3.

Just seperate the movies from the show. Heck, when it's all said and done, this show will be cancelled and become a long after thought of what may even end up becoming forgettable.

Or simply don't watch it. I don't watch TV and get by quite well.

IrishJedi
01-13-2008, 11:23 AM
Terminators? Check.

Summer Glau Hotness? Check.

Queen Golga from "300" as Sarah Conner? Check.

Zach from "Heroes" as John Conner? Check.

How can I not watch it?

galactiboy
01-13-2008, 11:23 AM
I imagine Eli is right...

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 12:02 PM
Will watch with low expectations as well. This show screws up what continuity there was between T2 and T3.

Hell, that's a good thing imo. The less connection with T3 the better. I'll be watching it as if T3 never existed.

MaulFan
01-13-2008, 12:07 PM
Just seperate the movies from the show. Heck, when it's all said and done, this show will be cancelled and become a long after thought of what may even end up becoming forgettable.

Or simply don't watch it. I don't watch TV and get by quite well.

To that, I add this fitting quote from Family Guy.

Peter: Well unfortuantely Lois, there's just no more room on the schedule. We just gotta accept the fact that FOX has to make room for terrific shows like Dark Angel, Titus, Undeclared, Action, That 80's Show, Wonder Falls, Fast Lane, Andy Richter Controls The Universe, Skin, Girl's Club, Cracking Up, The Pitts, Firefly, Get Real, Freaky Links, Wanda At Large, Costello, The Lone Gunman, A Minute with Stan Hooper, Normal Ohio, Pasadena, Harsh Realm, Keen Eddy, The Street, American Embassy, Cedric The Entertainer, The Tick, Louie, And Greg The Bunny....

Lois: Is there no hope?

Peter: Well I suppose if ALL those shows go down the tubes we might have a shot.

Voorhees27
01-13-2008, 01:29 PM
Can anyone tell me what time tonight it starts? I'm looking forward to this show, I HATE T.V. but hopefully this show will get me glued to the T.V. like the old days.

Maybe thats not a good thing though...........:confused:

Eli26
01-13-2008, 01:35 PM
Yes, sadly the execs at FOX screw up their scheduling.. Putting FireFly on at Friday nights when nobody watches TV...

Taking Dark Angel off of Tuesday nights where it averaged around 12 million viewers to Friday night which saw a huge decline in ratings. Moving Futurama around on Sundays, sometimes not showing it due to a NFL game. How was the audience supposed to know when it was on?

FOX hires on some incredible talent, in writers, actors, and directors... but man, and sign on some great shows. However, none of them seem to survive except for the odd show like 24 and Prison Break. btw How many episodes can you make for a show called Prison Break? Geez...

I don't care if this show is good or not, knowing FOX, it has signed its death warrant long before it even aired. That's why I won't get into this series, because just as you get into it, it's toodles.

The Craw
01-13-2008, 01:36 PM
Hell, that's a good thing imo. The less connection with T3 the better. I'll be watching it as if T3 never existed.what he said. T3 was ****ing awful. ill be checking this out as well but im sure it will be canceled after 4 episodes. then they will sell the dvd with the remaining 5 episodes on it. sigh. thats the fox network for you. and it looks like 7pm central time here voorhees.

Voorhees27
01-13-2008, 01:40 PM
what he said. T3 was ****ing awful. ill be checking this out as well but im sure it will be canceled after 4 episodes. then they will sell the dvd with the remaining 5 episodes on it. sigh. thats the fox network for you. and it looks like 7pm central time here voorhees.

Thanks dude.........

Karma
01-13-2008, 01:57 PM
I remember an interview I read & they said that they made the series as if the 3rd film didn't exist and is a continuation from the 2nd film

The Craw
01-13-2008, 01:59 PM
I remember an interview I read & they said that they made the series as if the 3rd film didn't exist and is a continuation from the 2nd filmi read that too. i also read that they have the first 3 seasons or so planned out. that would be great if the series survives. its nice when they have a series planned out from the beginning. less shark jumping that way.

Karma
01-13-2008, 02:02 PM
i read that too. i also read that they have the first 3 seasons or so planned out. that would be great if the series survives. its nice when they have a series planned out from the beginning. less shark jumping that way.

unlike lost where IMO @ the beginning they were just making it up as they go along

EVILFACE
01-13-2008, 06:28 PM
Isn't very good so far. Sarah murdered Dyson?? He chose his own fate. The chick terminator doesn't move like one. Gun in the leg just so we can see robot thigh? Recliner that block bullets? Ugggg

MaulFan
01-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Sarah murders Dyson according to this show? Man, is Fox trying to ruin a good thing, what ****ing idiots.

Mr. Fusion
01-13-2008, 06:40 PM
Sarah murders Dyson according to this show? Man, is Fox trying to ruin a good thing, what ****ing idiots.

No, the FBI agent said that Sarah murdered Dyson. That's naturally what they would think. The SWAT guys pretty much offed Dyson, but I doubt they would have told anyone after they found out who he was.:lol

IrishJedi
01-13-2008, 06:46 PM
MaulFan, you got ahead of yourself there.

Don't look now, but so far I'd say this is making a better sequel (story-wise anyway) to T2 than T3 was. :google

Darth Madden
01-13-2008, 06:52 PM
I got it on dvr since i gotta watch Amazing Race.

IrishJedi
01-13-2008, 07:00 PM
Summer Glau nekkid! (sorda) :rock

bagelsncheesey
01-13-2008, 07:03 PM
I thought the show was really good, i'll definitely keep watching it. My wife also liked it, so that's a plus :D

EVILFACE
01-13-2008, 07:03 PM
T1 is one of my top 5 fav movies. T2 is high up there as well. T3 wasn't great, but a fun ride. This TV was awful up to the very ending. Ending was a little better, at least I'll watch the next one.

Since when did terminators gain this massive amounts of strength? Turn over a bus. Rip open a bank vault door? Even Arnold's version never showed this :lol

Vader AL
01-13-2008, 07:04 PM
i really enjoyed it. the only thing i worry about is that each episode will have the same make-up....first part dialogue, next part Terminator shows up, last part they run.

pretty good show so far. some people from this board went into it expecting it to be bad and are blinded by the imperfections they saw and refuse to see anything else. newsflash: t.v. show versions of a movie are never as good...or very rarely. doesn't mean they can't be good in their own right.

Prison Break then this show on Mondays? I know where I'll be, in front of the tube....errr, LCD.

Cocoboloboy
01-13-2008, 07:05 PM
Yeah, their strength is a little over the top. I don't much care for who they chose to play Sarah but overall I liked it.

vader70450
01-13-2008, 07:08 PM
it was ok...i liked to way it picked up after 2...you got to admit a lot better than Bionic Woman...that show sucks...gives us something to watch on Mondays until Heroes is back on

Darth Caedus
01-13-2008, 07:10 PM
I saw the first couple of episodes in around September and they weren't awful, but not great either. Hoping that they re-edited them or reshot some scenes.

IrishJedi
01-13-2008, 07:18 PM
Yeah, their strength is a little over the top. I don't much care for who they chose to play Sarah but overall I liked it.

I like her! She played the queen in "300". Cougars rule! :rock

Cocoboloboy
01-13-2008, 07:21 PM
I like her! She played the queen in "300". Cougars rule! :rock

I thought she looked familar. She just doesn't look tough enough to me.

NASEDO
01-13-2008, 07:46 PM
I thought she looked familar. She just doesn't look tough enough to me.

Same here, I thought the same about her looks.

Darth Loki
01-13-2008, 08:00 PM
Not bad so far. Good enough to keep me for the first few episodes anyway.

BadMoon
01-13-2008, 08:04 PM
Not bad so far. Good enough to keep me for the first few episodes anyway.

I agree. Not great but it has me interested to see where they take it.

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 08:17 PM
I thought it was pretty good, if not more of the same. I'll keep watching.


I thought she looked familar. She just doesn't look tough enough to me.

Yeah, I also thought Lena Headey lacked the toughness of Sarah. Not to mention she's skinny as a rail. In that opening scene she looked like she'd break in two if a strong wind came up.

drbrad1975
01-13-2008, 08:21 PM
I will be tuning in tomorrow night again. Here is what I think so far. The best things about it is well....it is a Terminator series. The bad, well lets start with the title character. Sarah Connor was horribly miscast. Sarah was 26 when she gave birth to John so John should be only 7 when she is 33. John Connor is this series appears to be about 16. Lena Headey doesn't even remotely have the screen presence of Linda Hamilton. I think Lena is a hot girl, but she just isn't right for the role. The same for Summer Glau. Her movements aren't right, and she doesn't have the presence for the role. Great to see her in a new role though. Hopefully, the scripts are good enough to carry the series.

IrishJedi
01-13-2008, 08:21 PM
Eh. I guess I just don't have to have my Sarah Conner be butchy.

BadMoon
01-13-2008, 08:23 PM
I will be tuning in tomorrow night again. Here is what I think so far. The best things about it is well....it is a Terminator series. The bad, well lets start with the title character. Sarah Connor was horribly miscast. Sarah was 26 when she gave birth to John so John should be only 7 when she is 33. John Connor is this series appears to be able 16. Lena Headey doesn't even remotely have the screen presence of Linda Hamilton. I think Lena is a hot girl, but she just isn't right for the role. The same for Summer Glau. Her movements aren't right, and she doesn't have the presence for the role. Great to see her in a new role though. Hopefully, the scripts are good enough to carry the series.

I agree with most of what you said. However, keep in mind that Summer Glau is playing a new model terminator. One that even appears to show emotion. I think maybe that's why she is different.

drbrad1975
01-13-2008, 08:26 PM
I agree with most of what you said. However, keep in mind that Summer Glau is playing a new model terminator. One that even appears to show emotion. I think maybe that's why she is different.

I think you are right about that. Because when John asked her what model number was she, she didn't give him the number. I just hope that this series can get it going.

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 08:27 PM
I liked Summer Glau, she's good at giving off a weird vibe. Besides, how many time can we watch the same old stone faced Terminators? The "reprogrammed and sent back to protect you" storyline is already old hat as it is.

BadMoon
01-13-2008, 08:30 PM
I think you are right about that. Because when John asked her what model number was she, she didn't give him the number. I just hope that this series can get it going.

Me too! :cool:

Darth Waller
01-13-2008, 08:33 PM
It wasn't too bad, so I'll tune in for more. I just hope it doesn't turn into the Terminator-of-the-week show.

And how did he know where Sarah lived in New Mexico after he knocked her out? :confused:

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 08:36 PM
It wasn't too bad, so I'll tune in for more. I just hope it doesn't turn into the Terminator-of-the-week show.

I can't imagine it turning into anything else.

Which begs the question, if Skynet has the ability to keep sending back Terminators with such frequency, why doesn't it just send back a whole squad of them one after the other and attack in force?

BadMoon
01-13-2008, 08:40 PM
I can't imagine it turning into anything else.

Which begs the question, if Skynet has the ability to keep sending back Terminators with such frequency, why doesn't it just send back a whole squad of them one after the other and attack in force?

Because it knows the only person looking to take down skynet is Sarah. If they unleash a whole army it would only prove she is telling the truth therefore skynet would never get created.

drbrad1975
01-13-2008, 08:42 PM
It wasn't too bad, so I'll tune in for more. I just hope it doesn't turn into the Terminator-of-the-week show.

And how did he know where Sarah lived in New Mexico after he knocked her out? :confused:

Driver's License? Car Registration? Mail? You can probably make up an explanation for that.

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 08:43 PM
Because it knows the only person looking to take down skynet is Sarah. If they unleash a whole army it would only prove she is telling the truth therefore skynet would never get created.

It doesn't have to be a whole army. 15 or 20 should be more than enough. Although I'm sure the humans in the future would just capture 15 or 20 of them, reprogram them and send them to protect John and Sarah, so we're back to square one.

Darth Waller
01-13-2008, 08:44 PM
Driver's License? Car Registration? Mail? You can probably make up an explanation for that.

I don't think she'd have any of that if she's on the run.

BadMoon
01-13-2008, 08:44 PM
It doesn't have to be a whole army. 15 or 20 should be more than enough. Although I'm sure the humans in the future would just capture 15 or 20 of them, reprogram them and send them to protect John and Sarah, so we're back to square one.

Yeah I stopped trying to figure out the whole terminator world. I just take it for what it is. I find that if I think too hard I always find holes. Then after a while a solution to that hole. Then yet another hole in that solution. Time travel is a *****. :lol

Darth Madden
01-13-2008, 08:48 PM
Yeah I stopped trying to figure out the whole terminator world. I just take it for what it is. I find that if I think too hard I always find holes. Then after a while a solution to that hole. Then yet another hole in that solution. Time travel is a *****. :lol


Yeah, its the same as Star Wars reality... don't try to figure it out just go along for the ride.

drbrad1975
01-13-2008, 08:50 PM
I don't think she'd have any of that if she's on the run.

She would have to have something. She has power? A power bill, maybe? I doubt it would be in her name, but she probably has something.

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 08:50 PM
Yeah I stopped trying to figure out the whole terminator world. I just take it for what it is. I find that if I think too hard I always find holes. Then after a while a solution to that hole. Then yet another hole in that solution. Time travel is a *****. :lol

Yeah, I've watched enough Star Trek to know it's pointless trying to reconcile a plot containing time travel.

chewblacca
01-13-2008, 08:54 PM
Why is a terminator impersonating a teacher? Why is a robot (she never said she was a terminator) impersonating a student? Why is Sarah a brunette? Why is the dialogue so wooden? I never got the terminator feel from the whole thing. Did Cameron have any input in this thing? I don't know if I'll be watching any more of these.

Vader AL
01-13-2008, 08:55 PM
She would have to have something. She has power? A power bill, maybe? I doubt it would be in her name, but she probably has something.

wouldn't john have to register his home address at his school? the terminator could wirelessly link into it and see it. sounds good to me.

i do wonder why they didn't totally change their names but then again, i don't have to rationalize it because, well the fact there is time travel tells me not to. :)

KitFisto
01-13-2008, 09:02 PM
I thought it was decent. I'll keep watching.

Grange Wallis
01-13-2008, 09:04 PM
Why is a terminator impersonating a teacher? Why is a robot (she never said she was a terminator) impersonating a student? Why is Sarah a brunette? Why is the dialogue so wooden? I never got the terminator feel from the whole thing. Did Cameron have any input in this thing? I don't know if I'll be watching any more of these.

Why? You ask why? Why does the phone always ring when you're in the bathtub?

King Darkness
01-13-2008, 09:05 PM
It was ok, at best.

Some really lame crap in it though, like the chair stopping bullets:monkey4

And people traveling back in time to build future weapons and a freakin time machines:confused: That was f'n stupid. What in 1963 did the "engineer" use to build this future crap?!?!?!? LAME!!!!!

Too many holes and inconsistencies to really enjoy it IMO.

On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a 3.

Cocoboloboy
01-13-2008, 09:08 PM
I forgot about the bullet proof chair. My wife and I just looked at each other when that happened.

KitFisto
01-13-2008, 09:11 PM
The Cops said there was kevlar in the chair when they were looking in the house after sarah and John were gone. Sarah must have have thought bullet proofing the chair was a good idea.:lol

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 09:15 PM
And people traveling back in time to build future weapons and a freakin time machines:confused: That was f'n stupid. What in 1963 did the "engineer" use to build this future crap?!?!?!? LAME!!!!!


Why didn't John send this guy back to 1984 so he could build Kyle Reese a kickass laser gun and keep his dad from getting killed by Arnold?

Answer: time travel makes no sense.

Vader AL
01-13-2008, 09:23 PM
i think she was too low for the bullets to hit her when she was behind the chair, not the fact the chair blocked them...not sure. no matter, i think we need a "I enjoyed the show and understand a show about timetravelling robots doesn't have to be perfect and do not care to nitpick everything" thread.

Darth Waller
01-13-2008, 09:25 PM
i think she was too low for the bullets to hit her when she was behind the chair, not the fact the chair blocked them...not sure. no matter, i think we need a "I enjoyed the show and understand a show about timetravelling robots doesn't have to be perfect and do not care to nitpick everything" thread.

Hey, start your own thread. Kidding!

I think anything new on something with a huge fanbase is going to be hard to swallow at first. It was interesting enough to get me to watch again. Luckily that'll be tomorrow already.

Ven
01-13-2008, 09:25 PM
it's not too bad, I kinda like it.

Ven
01-13-2008, 09:33 PM
That Thomas Dekker is no Christian Bale though.

galactiboy
01-13-2008, 09:56 PM
Honestly not a bad show, especially for primetime fare. I enjoyed and will continue to watch. Some stuff was cheesey, but still better than T3.

TheObsoleteMan
01-13-2008, 09:58 PM
Some stuff was cheesey, but still better than T3.

I cringed at "Class dismissed" but that was still a far sight better than "Talk to da hand!"

Darth Caedus
01-13-2008, 10:03 PM
I cringed at "Class dismissed" but that was still a far sight better than "Talk to da hand!"

I liked talk to the hand :lol:lol Man, if I were naked around the hot terminator and sarah connor, oh man, the ***** would hit the fan. Shouldn't this be moved to the Other Discussion?

galactiboy
01-13-2008, 10:14 PM
I cringed at "Class dismissed" but that was still a far sight better than "Talk to da hand!"

Yeah, I guess one liners are just part of a Terminators programming :rolleyes:

And whats funny is the oringal "I'll be back" was a really a simple statement first, and later became an iconic one-liner.

Jair
01-13-2008, 10:33 PM
From what I remember of the Rough Cut Pilot they showed at SDDC, they made a few changes, seemed the pacing was off and I could have sworn they had a different actor playing Sarah's boyfriend the first time around.

Was ok show though, I was more excited watching it at SDDC, probably since they had the cast, director and producer there afterwards to answer questions. I'll continue to watch it, not a whole lotta stuff on TV these days as it is, just wish FOX came in HD here in Alaska.


Evan

DarkArtist81
01-13-2008, 10:52 PM
It was ok, at best.

Some really lame crap in it though, like the chair stopping bullets:monkey4

And people traveling back in time to build future weapons and a freakin time machines:confused: That was f'n stupid. What in 1963 did the "engineer" use to build this future crap?!?!?!? LAME!!!!!

Too many holes and inconsistencies to really enjoy it IMO.

On a scale of 1 to 10 I give it a 3.

Same feeling here... T3 wasn't that great, but at least it ended right. This show just cheapens the whole series, IMO. And not just for the reasons stated above...

First off, WHY in the Hell would Sarah put John in school?? And why under John Reese? That is just begging for trouble. Sarah was always smarter than that, she would have at least home schooled John. If not still training him for his future role, just in case... Just seems out of character for her.

And a Terminator posing as a sub teacher, taking roll call? Just seems a bit too convoluted and a rush job way of putting the Terminator in the mix.

Also, John regressing?? At the end of T2 he was a bit more comfortable in his role and a tougher kid. Now he is whiny and doesn't want to be what he is?? WTF?

I'll probably watch the next episode to see if it's not completely ruined, but from the way it looks... it will be.

King Darkness
01-13-2008, 10:55 PM
Same feeling here... T3 wasn't that great, but at least it ended right. This show just cheapens the whole series, IMO. And not just for the reasons stated above...

First off, WHY in the Hell would Sarah put John in school?? And why under John Reese? That is just begging for trouble.

And a Terminator posing as a sub teacher, taking roll call? Just seems a bit too convoluted.

Also, John regressing?? At the end of T2 he was a bit more comfortable in his role and a tougher kid. Now he is whiny and doesn't want to be what he is?? WTF?

I'll probably watch the next episode to see if it's not completely ruined, but from the way it looks... it will be.


:lecture :lecture :lecture

Yup, what he said.

Vader AL
01-13-2008, 10:56 PM
what about the time travel equipment they left in the bank and the destroyed terminator...maybe they should have destroyed that.

EVILFACE
01-13-2008, 11:17 PM
Yea, the John Reese was lame. The time travel machine is even worse. They just stand in the middle of the street for everyone to stare at em all naked??? Show is just a mess.

Cameron's eyes have prolly rolled back in his head several times.

pjam
01-13-2008, 11:31 PM
Weak and Pedestrian at best for me. Nothing original about it, worst of all I didn't like Lena Headey as Sarah. And her accent crept out in a few scenes. Bugged me....

Kid playing John was fine I thought, even looked a bit like Biehn and Summer was okay, casting wise but the whole thing was kind of lame and derivitive to a fault. The story elements didn't work for me either. Whenever there was action, we see something/replay we already saw years ago...

It's a bit of a shame as I know the Writer/EP. We were next door neighbors and buddies and even Richard T Johnson lived across the street from us on Rosewood, this small quiet street in L.A. so it is kind of a Homie thing for me.

I was hoping for some kickass storytelling. But it felt like just a cheap ass knockoff to me. And I had continuity problems.

I hope the Series catches a wave of better written episodes as this was just the Pilot. We'll see...

bidge1000
01-13-2008, 11:38 PM
Yea, the John Reese was lame. The time travel machine is even worse. They just stand in the middle of the street for everyone to stare at em all naked??? Show is just a mess.

Cameron's eyes have prolly rolled back in his head several times.

Enjoyed this show for what it was. It showed us nothing new in that Terminator chases the Connors, "Come with me if you want to Live" and lot's of "I'm not a messiah".
However, this episode was fun and contained as much action as an episode of 24 - so far, I really liked the time machine bit. Agree with some problems, female Terminator doesn't move or act like one etc, but I'll give it another view tomorrow.
PS,
Terminator 3 Kicked all kinds of ass, it's getting a real rough ride from the members of the Academy on these boards!

D

Wor-Gar
01-13-2008, 11:40 PM
Pretty much agree with what's been said here, at least on this one page I read. :) Not counting the opinion directly above me.

However, I have to add, I thought Summer Glau was really weak as well. Nice to look at, but ridiculous as a Terminator.

All the other gripes apply as well; Substitute-Term, Reese as cover, bank with secret weapon and time machine -- how many people did they send back nude to build a bank?

All in all, just as bad as the Bionic Woman. And it got a good review too. I was expecting more.

gdb
01-14-2008, 12:35 AM
Well, I liked T3. The action scenes did not work at all for me, but I really liked the sci-fi, time travel fate/destiny thing it had going. Those were the elements I really liked about the original Terminator. T2? It was just an extremely well made 80's action film (okay it came out in '91 but it felt like an extremely well made 80's action film to me).

So while I have no idea where they can go with the story from here -- it felt like the start to a mini-series not an ongoing series -- I dug it. It's exploitive, it embraces the cheap gags ("class dismissed" anyone?) and it's aimed at an audience that doesn't get hung up with logical causality, but the same can be said of Heroes. And as far as that comparison goes, I liked it so much better than season 2 of Heroes.

That's not to say I don't have some gripes. First and foremost, who cleaned up the gun and time travel equipment in 1999? That had better get cleared up and in a hurry. Second, the series seems far removed from the tone and established storytelling devices of the R rated film franchise. So much so that it kind of felt like a comic book series of an R rated film. Which, actually, I'm okay with, but I don't know that a lot of other fans will.

chewblacca
01-14-2008, 08:11 AM
Can't you see that Summer is a possible romantic interest for John? Like in part two where it was speculated at that of all the men out there the perfect father might be a terminator. I still can't beleive fox tried to pass off a terminator as a school teacher, that was funny.

geto10
01-14-2008, 08:20 AM
Same feeling here... T3 wasn't that great, but at least it ended right. This show just cheapens the whole series, IMO. And not just for the reasons stated above...

First off, WHY in the Hell would Sarah put John in school?? And why under John Reese? That is just begging for trouble. Sarah was always smarter than that, she would have at least home schooled John. If not still training him for his future role, just in case... Just seems out of character for her.

And a Terminator posing as a sub teacher, taking roll call? Just seems a bit too convoluted and a rush job way of putting the Terminator in the mix.

Also, John regressing?? At the end of T2 he was a bit more comfortable in his role and a tougher kid. Now he is whiny and doesn't want to be what he is?? WTF?


I'll probably watch the next episode to see if it's not completely ruined, but from the way it looks... it will be.

What he said! :cool:

Darth Caedus
01-14-2008, 08:54 AM
Pretty much agree with what's been said here, at least on this one page I read. :) Not counting the opinion directly above me.

However, I have to add, I thought Summer Glau was really weak as well. Nice to look at, but ridiculous as a Terminator.

All the other gripes apply as well; Substitute-Term, Reese as cover, bank with secret weapon and time machine -- how many people did they send back nude to build a bank?

All in all, just as bad as the Bionic Woman. And it got a good review too. I was expecting more.


Come on now, can't compare this show to the pure crap that is the Bionic Women. At least Terminator has some saving graces, while Bionic has none. Anyway, I saw nothing wrong with the show, I can ignore little plot holes, like what about the technology in the bank, etc. I hope the show owns up to its potential and john connor stops acting like the cheerleader from heroes (i don't want this, blah blah blah)

EVILFACE
01-14-2008, 10:34 AM
Come on now, can't compare this show to the pure crap that is the Bionic Women. At least Terminator has some saving graces, while Bionic has none. Anyway, I saw nothing wrong with the show, I can ignore little plot holes, like what about the technology in the bank, etc. I hope the show owns up to its potential and john connor stops acting like the cheerleader from heroes (i don't want this, blah blah blah)

They both are inferior to their original couterparts.

But . . . .

Michelle Ryan > Summer Glau

Darth Waller
01-14-2008, 10:36 AM
They both are inferior to their original couterparts.

But . . . .

Michelle Ryan > Summer Glau

I agree! :monkey1

shockwave
01-14-2008, 12:14 PM
Do all robotics have to always tilt they head to the side :monkey5. :lol

Batty
01-14-2008, 12:20 PM
It killed an hour for me. It wasn't terrible and it wasn't great. It's definitely one of those shows you can't think too much about.

Loved the bullet-proof chair!

Lord Aykroyd
01-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Some really lame crap in it though, like the chair stopping bullets:monkey4


Did you hear the cop say - "the chair had Kevlar in it?"

My only major complaint was that Sarah was weak and way more passive compared to the movies...

Les Walker
01-14-2008, 12:27 PM
Decent enough show. Yeah, the chair stands out, and Sarah was too wimpy, but otherwise, ok. I enjoyed it anyway.

Wor-Gar
01-14-2008, 12:31 PM
Pretty weak when one of the high points is a chair with kevlar in it.

Batty
01-14-2008, 12:34 PM
Pretty weak when one of the high points is a chair with kevlar in it.

:lol

That and seeing Summer Glau partially naked.

The Mike
01-14-2008, 12:55 PM
I haven't watched it yet since I was watching The Amazing Race but its interesting to see so many mixed reviews. I'll be watching this afternoon after work and that'll decide whether or not I follow tonights episode.

Fritz
01-14-2008, 01:00 PM
I hardly watch network television so I was hoping this was a series I would be interested in. I didn't mind it. It by no means blew my socks off but since I don't like to think too much about stuff that doesn't need thinking about, the inconsistencies don't bother me. I just like to sit back, watch and enjoy without asking 'why'. With regards to casting, I'm more than good with Lena Heady and Summer Glau.

The ill Jedi
01-14-2008, 02:16 PM
I enjoyed it.

What do you guys expect for a network show? :dunno

BadMoon
01-14-2008, 02:17 PM
I enjoyed it.

What do you guys expect for a network show? :dunno

Exactly what I watched last night. I was pleased. :cool:

The ill Jedi
01-14-2008, 02:18 PM
Exactly what I watched last night. I was pleased. :cool:
I do not mind watching HOT ASS Lena Headley and Summer Glau for an hour!! :drool

The Craw
01-14-2008, 04:19 PM
i thought it was alright. nothing spectacular but it was a pilot for crying out loud. i think the series has potential. just got to get a few more episodes out that set up the theme of what the series is gonna be like.

Eli26
01-14-2008, 04:45 PM
i thought it was alright. nothing spectacular but it was a pilot for crying out loud. i think the series has potential. just got to get a few more episodes out that set up the theme of what the series is gonna be like.

We just have a lot of prudes on here. I keeid I keeid. I haven't seen the show so I can't comment either way. Most likely I won't see it either.

TV and me don't mix.

DouglasMcc
01-14-2008, 05:55 PM
I also enjoyed it. I noticed a few plot holes, but some of you guys aren't thinking this all the way through:

"First and foremost, who cleaned up the gun and time travel equipment in 1999? That had better get cleared up and in a hurry."

Well, there are 2 options here: Remember in T2 when Arnold appeared next to the semi as he materialized? The entire side of the metal and steel truck was vaporized. That was the lightning/ heat shield from one time traveler. Considering the added mass of 2 more travelers, seems to me the entire vault ... and especially the gun that Sarah was holding, were vaporized in the time portal creation. Or, the designer of the vaults could have built in a self-destruct feature activated on use of the time travel device. I personally believe it's the first option.

"My only major complaint was that Sarah was weak and way more passive compared to the movies."
"First off, WHY in the Hell would Sarah put John in school?? And why under John Reese? That is just begging for trouble. Sarah was always smarter than that, she would have at least home schooled John. If not still training him for his future role, just in case... Just seems out of character for her."
"Also, John regressing?? At the end of T2 he was a bit more comfortable in his role and a tougher kid. Now he is whiny and doesn't want to be what he is?? WTF?"

I will hit these all together. We have seen exactly 42 minutes of this "new" Sarah. Who's to say she is going to be more passive than the movie version? In all honesty, the only weakness I could see compared to the movies could probably be linked to the process of turning an R rated movie into a PG-13 prime time show. She stayed true to the movie archetype - strong female willing to do anything - even die - to save her son.

As for John going to school, what did you expect her to do? Lock him in his room for 20 years? This argument gets into the causality of the time travel paradox. Let's ignore the most obvious - Reese being John's father. We will have to assume that most of what made John a leader came from his mother. But, how does knowing the future affect the way you live and grow? If you knew that you were going to die tomorrow because your office building was going to blow up, would you still go to work? But, let's not look at something that life changing. Take football. If you knew from the first day of training camp that your team was going to lose in the first round of the playoffs, would you even bother turning on the TV that season? Well, how does knowing you are suppose to be a messiah affect your grow and development? I would imagine it would add a pressure that was missing the first time you developed into that person? But, that's probably too much thought on the matter. The plain and simple fact of the school situation is that John was going to school because John WANTED to. Sarah even admitted as such in the pilot to Cameron - "We can't keep running ... or I am going to lose him." I didn't take from that she was afraid of him being killed, at least not completely. It seemed to me she was afraid of him abandoning her and his future due to the stress and hardship. So, it would make sense that she would allow John to have something akin to a regular teenage life ... well guarded of course. As for the supposed regression of John, A.) he's still a kid at this point, and B.) he's been on the run for 8 years by this point. I would imagine this, along with the knowledge paradox I mentioned before could dampen one's view on life. Plus, T3 had an adult John still wary of his future so what's the big deal?

As a side note, the Terminators in T1 and T2 kill bystanders rather flippantly. How are they to know that one of them isn't going to either take part in some part of Cyberdyne or have a child that contributed? It's like the step on a bug in the prehistoric era and erase mankind joke from Simpsons THOH episode.

"I cringed at "Class dismissed" but that was still a far sight better than "Talk to da hand!"
Well, as much as I love T2, "Hasta La Vista Baby" is WAY more cheesy than "class dismissed."

As for the fact that Summer isn't playing Cameron like the stereotypical Terminator, I don't think that's bad acting ... I think it's intended. It's obvious she is an infiltration cyborg ... smaller, less conspicuous. But, as John noted, she different from the rest of the Terminators. From what I have read, that's going to be a major future plot point. I admit, I am waiting for John to have the Star Trek Data conversation with her, "um ... so, are you FULLY functional?"

Don't get me wrong, there were a few things that irritated me. I don't see how they can reconnect this story to T3. That wouldn't be so bad if there were not going to be any more movies set after T3 - I could rationalize that some other variable was changed and that future was altered. But, if Terminator SCC survives and becomes a hit, the next movie trilogy set during the wars isn't going to make much sense.

There's also the silliness of the gun inside the terminator's thigh. That was the only part about that bit I didn't like. It wasn't a futuristic gun, so it's not like he had to bury it in his flesh to bring it back. So, why go to that elaborate means of hiding it? If he was trying to avoid a metal detector ... something tells me that endoskeleton would make more of a ping than a handgun. But, I can live with it because the characters are working for me.

A lot of you guys would make good Fox execs here ... that show didn't grab me after the first episode, lets cancel it just like Firefly ... anyone know another lame idea for a reality show? :lol

The Craw
01-14-2008, 06:05 PM
my question is, did that futuristic gun or plasma ray doohicky totally disentigrate that terminator or just blow him into parts? what if they use these parts for cyberdyne research? kinda careless considering what they went through in T2 to stop cyberdyne. plus, why wouldnt john be in school? they arent suppossed to be hiding from terminators anymore, just the law. they assumed judgment day didnt happen since aug. 29 1997 came and went without incident and they just want to lead normal lives. or somewhat normal lives as the case may be.

DouglasMcc
01-14-2008, 06:07 PM
my question is, did that futuristic gun or plasma ray doohicky totally disentigrate that terminator or just blow him into parts? what if they use these parts for cyberdyne research? kinda careless considering what they went through in T2 to stop cyberdyne. plus, why wouldnt john be in school? they arent suppossed to be hiding from terminators anymore, just the law. they assumed judgment day didnt happen since aug. 29 1997 came and went without incident and they just want to lead normal lives. or somewhat normal lives as the case may be.

Once again, I have a feeling the field generated by the time bubble would have destroyed the robot .. IF he's dead. The preview for tonight's episode showed an endoskeleton, so maybe he's been hanging around in hiding for 8 years.

DouglasMcc
01-14-2008, 06:13 PM
"Fox’s “Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles” apparently scored the highest-rated scripted broadcast debut in three years and the season's biggest debut in any format, besting even the muscular launch of “American Gladiators” earlier this month.

CBS’ “Comanche Moon” premiere racked up the largest audience for any movie on any network in more than two years, according to TV Week."

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35277

I love this for 2 reasons:

1.) It means this show has a chance. Fox would be stupid to drop it unless the ratings plummet.
2.) It shows the networks that they can't outlast the strike with reality dregs. Give the writers what they deserve ... and us scripted entertainment, or watch your advertisers flee like John and Sarah ... :D

The Craw
01-14-2008, 06:18 PM
"Fox’s “Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles” apparently scored the highest-rated scripted broadcast debut in three years and the season's biggest debut in any format, besting even the muscular launch of “American Gladiators” earlier this month.

CBS’ “Comanche Moon” premiere racked up the largest audience for any movie on any network in more than two years, according to TV Week."

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35277

I love this for 2 reasons:

1.) It means this show has a chance. Fox would be stupid to drop it unless the ratings plummet.
2.) It shows the networks that they can't outlast the strike with reality dregs. Give the writers what they deserve ... and us scripted entertainment, or watch your advertisers flee like John and Sarah ... :Dwe'll have to see how many returning viewers it will have tonight though. i watched camanche moon as well. very nice.:D

gdb
01-14-2008, 06:22 PM
Alright, if the time bubble cleaned up the gun, Terminator and time machine, I can buy that. I would have liked the characters to have shown some concern and talk it through, but I can buy that reasoning.

About the gun gag, I loved it being hidden in the thigh, but it was a punchline without a setup. There was no need for it. And if it's going to be metal hidden in flesh, why not make it a future gun that's gone through the time bubble? The scene felt like a compromise of people in a room that can't see the big picture. Like it was supposed to be a future gun and then for some reason, they decided it couldn't be the future gun so someone observed, "We don't need the thigh gag anymore," and someone else said, "No I like the thigh gag. Keep it."

Wor-Gar
01-14-2008, 06:34 PM
Not sure why there's so much talk about the thigh gun gag.

Isn't it clear from the first Terminator movie that only flesh can make it through the time portal? They even say that. However, metal covered in flesh can be transported, otherwise we'd never have the T1 go through. Therefore, he had to hide the gun in his thigh to jump.

The fact that it was an "old gun" probably has more to do with budget than logic.

The Craw
01-14-2008, 06:40 PM
i think he put the gun in his thigh months ago and the flesh healed over it. he probably put it there so he can blend into society without carrying a concealed weapon under his clothes or what not which would seem kinda suspicious for a teacher.

SOLIDSNAKE
01-14-2008, 07:28 PM
wow watching second episode right now !!


WOW ENDO SKELLETON !!

SOLIDSNAKE
01-14-2008, 07:36 PM
well I think the show is ok. Its no T2 but HEY! lets face it is television.
I am suprised is actually produced by Mario Kazar and C2 pictures(people resposible for all the Terminator movies).

Hey atleast we get to see some endoskelletons in action !!
I dont dig the chick terminator as the protector.

Darth Caedus
01-14-2008, 07:50 PM
Thigh gun thingy reminded me of robocop, but I liked it. Hope the second episode is as good as the first; looking forward to it

SOLIDSNAKE
01-14-2008, 08:34 PM
the second episode has ended and I have to say this show is getting more interesting.
The next episode will show a endoskelleton walking arround a hospital killing people.
Now !! thats what I talking about !!
not saying is Amazing but entertaning !!
This might actually be better the T3.
looking forward to next weeks episode

Darth Madden
01-14-2008, 08:45 PM
I just watched the 1st episode and it wasn't too bad. The girl doesn't seem like a terminator at all and I'm not sure if thats good or bad. There were some werid/dumb points (that everyone has mentioned) but I am excited to see #2 tonight.

Wor-Gar
01-14-2008, 08:48 PM
This show will need more than just Endos stalking around in each episode. I'm hoping for an array of different killer cyborgs and machines as the show evolves.

tomandshell
01-14-2008, 08:53 PM
I thought it was funny that the Terminator was so focused on his mission that when John escaped out the window, he stopped chasing him so he could turn back to the class and deliver a bad joke while his prey was running away.

:D

I also didn't buy that he would allow Sarah to live after getting his hands around her throat and making that phone call to John. That isn't how they have behaved in the films.

Vader AL
01-14-2008, 09:02 PM
I thought it was funny that the Terminator was so focused on his mission that when John escaped out the window, he stopped chasing him so he could turn back to the class and deliver a bad joke while his prey was running away.

:D

I also didn't buy that he would allow Sarah to live after getting his hands around her throat and making that phone call to John. That isn't how they have behaved in the films.

i think they all have learned from the past terminators and reason things out more, like on the show tonight when the terminator reasoned to flee. that's my rationalization on it. :D

Darth Waller
01-14-2008, 09:40 PM
I just got finished watching the second episode and it was an improvement over the pilot. It still had a few goofy moments (like the headless endo busting out of the trash heap because his head was nearby).

I really liked how the episode ended. I believe they've added a dramatic element to Sarah that makes her even more interesting.

galactiboy
01-14-2008, 09:51 PM
2nd episode and still decent... not the greatest show ever but certainly watchable. I liked how the head made it to the future... but confused as to why no one noticed the rest of the endoskeleton, but again as long as you don't think about it the show is enjoyable.

Buttmunch
01-14-2008, 10:45 PM
I watched the pilot episode tonight, but not the second one yet. I thought it was decent. Not Lost or 24 good/addictive, but definately watchable. I don't know if this has been brought up, but I kinda like how they are avoiding T3 all together. To me it makes T3 better. The whole Terminator universe is about changing the future, by the TV series taking palce, they stop/alterted/delayed the events in T3. Its like T3 is now a "what could have been" film. So I think that is actually an interesting twist.

But one thing I always wondered, why don't they just keep sending the Terminators back to when Sarah as pregnant or even when she was a child? Seems like after the first Terminator was destroyed would have been a good time to send a second one back to finish the weakened Sarah off. :rolleyes:

Darth Caedus
01-14-2008, 10:53 PM
I watched the pilot episode tonight, but not the second one yet. I thought it was decent. Not Lost or 24 good/addictive, but definately watchable. I don't know if this has been brought up, but I kinda like how they are avoiding T3 all together. To me it makes T3 better. The whole Terminator universe is about changing the future, by the TV series taking palce, they stop/alterted/delayed the events in T3. Its like T3 is now a "what could have been" film. So I think that is actually an interesting twist.

But one thing I always wondered, why don't they just keep sending the Terminators back to when Sarah as pregnant or even when she was a child? Seems like after the first Terminator was destroyed would have been a good time to send a second one back to finish the weakened Sarah off. :rolleyes:

I was thinking that maybe there are a limited amount of times you can send something back, which they could probably explain; or something like that. That's the paradoxes with time travel shows, usually always plot holes that could be found if you really look for them. I for one loved T3, which I know a lot of people didn't. I liked how in the second episode, the terminator brought them in the future to avoid her dying of cancer (which did happen in T3).

I really hope as well that a different terminator isn't stalking them everyweek. that would get repitively old extremely fast. have different types of killing machines after them, or maybe some episodes none at all.

Wor-Gar
01-14-2008, 11:03 PM
Episode 2 was better.

Gotta love Chet. Nice build up to a threat there.

pjam
01-14-2008, 11:05 PM
Much better tonight.

SOLIDSNAKE
01-14-2008, 11:26 PM
I thought it was funny that the Terminator was so focused on his mission that when John escaped out the window, he stopped chasing him so he could turn back to the class and deliver a bad joke while his prey was running away.

:D

I also didn't buy that he would allow Sarah to live after getting his hands around her throat and making that phone call to John. That isn't how they have behaved in the films.

good points!

SOLIDSNAKE
01-14-2008, 11:30 PM
Episode 2 was better.

Gotta love Chet. Nice build up to a threat there.

yeaaa LOL chet !

I cant wait to see next weeks episode. ENDO grabing the doctor looked cool !

galactiboy
01-14-2008, 11:37 PM
The Chet Endo was smart hanging around the homeless... maybe that way no one would notice how stinky his rotting flesh mask will get :o

gdb
01-15-2008, 04:05 AM
This episode was fun! With all the retooling the network's done, perhaps it can be thought of as pilot 2.0 and will be indicative of things to come.

So it's not going to win any awards but it was a blast for a sci-fi show. A fun guilty pleasure show like Heroes' first season.

And is Dixon married to Penny from LOST now?

And I JUST placed the actor playing Dixon! He was Tina Fey's horrible boyfriend on 30 Rock.

DouglasMcc
01-15-2008, 05:07 AM
I was thinking that maybe there are a limited amount of times you can send something back, which they could probably explain; or something like that. That's the paradoxes with time travel shows, usually always plot holes that could be found if you really look for them. I for one loved T3, which I know a lot of people didn't. I liked how in the second episode, the terminator brought them in the future to avoid her dying of cancer (which did happen in T3).

I really hope as well that a different terminator isn't stalking them every week. that would get repetitively old extremely fast. have different types of killing machines after them, or maybe some episodes none at all.

I could see the limit to the number of time travels to a specific period. But, I always assumed it was simple computer logic - i.e. if one approach doesn't work, try another. I mean think about it, how logical is it to try the same thing over and over if the first attempt is a failure? Plus, Skynet isn't around in the T1 80's. The endo is damaged beyond repair, so the only one who knows how those events played out would be Sarah. So, all Skynet knows is that it's attempt to kill her during pregnancy failed, and that's if Skynet remembers at all ... since going back changed the future anyway. So, I could see a computer rationalizing that sending another valuable asset to attack her at the same time as a previous failure would be a waste of resources.

Also, one of my friends mentioned last night that the new movies and TV show are being produced by the same people. So, maybe the movies are going to ignore T3, which could have been wiped out by the change in history of them jumping ahead 8 years. Or, even cooler, imagine them ending season 2 with Judgement Day happening and the first new movie starting 10 or 20 years in the future of that time line? Then the movies could deal with the future of the war, and the show could detail the beginning. Not sure if they could do it justice on a TV budget, but it would be an interesting concept. But knowing that they are doing Future War movie sequels does kinda hurt the show ... it means they are doomed to failure if the 2 are connected.

lcummins
01-15-2008, 10:23 AM
I was thinking that maybe there are a limited amount of times you can send something back...


I could see the limit to the number of time travels to a specific period. But, I always assumed it was simple computer logic - i.e. if one approach doesn't work, try another. I mean think about it, how logical is it to try the same thing over and over if the first attempt is a failure...

According to the original movie, they couldn't send anyone else back...


...it had no choice. The defensive grid was smashed. We'd taken the mainframes... We'd won. Taking out Connor then would make no difference. Skynet had to wipe out his entire existence. We captured the lab complex. Found the...whatever it was called...the time-displacement equipment. The Terminator had already gone through. They sent two of us to intercept, then zeroed the whole place. Sumner didn't make it.

Boba Fett
01-15-2008, 10:29 AM
The show is fun to watch if you turn your brain off and just be entertained for an hour. :rolleyes:

Fritz
01-15-2008, 10:44 AM
I enjoyed the second episode as well as the first and am looking forward to next week. Also, I agree with Boba Fett.

Things I liked from the second episode:

- Boobie trapped safe knocking out Cameron and Sarah throwing her out the window
- Any fight scenes with Summer Glau because it reminds me of Firefly/Serenity
- Cameron shooting the fake id guy when Sarah didn't
- Summer Glau in a short skirt.

IrishJedi
01-15-2008, 10:46 AM
I enjoyed the second episode as well as the first and am looking forward to next week. Also, I agree with Boba Fett.

Things I liked from the second episode:

- Boobie trapped safe knocking out Cameron and Sarah throwing her out the window
- Any fight scenes with Summer Glau because it reminds me of Firefly/Serenity
- Cameron shooting the fake id guy when Sarah didn't
- Summer Glau in a short skirt.

:lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture

The Chaver
01-15-2008, 11:23 AM
I caught the second episode last night.I thought it was pretty good,but the guys playing the evil terminators need to go back to terminator acting school.:lol

I still haven't caught on to what's going on yet,due to me not seeing the first episode.I'll catch it later guess.

Fubeca
01-15-2008, 12:09 PM
Pleasantly suprised! I liked it a lot. I was hoping it was good but anticipated it being cheese. My wife even laughed at the premise, but after watching it for a few minutes she said, hey keep this I want to watch the whole thing later...:rolleyes:

Batty
01-15-2008, 12:31 PM
I enjoyed the second episode more than the first. I think the further away we get from the movies the more we can enjoy this for what it is.

Chet was great! And I like how Sarah threw Summer (does she have an actual name on the show?) out the window.

And how many days was John cooped-up in the house? I think he only mentioned it 3 or 4 times. :monkey1

DouglasMcc
01-15-2008, 02:13 PM
According to the original movie, they couldn't send anyone else back...

Ah, Terminator paradoxes LOL. That rationale only worked in T1 since both Skynet and the Resistance sent back soldiers in T2. However, since they had altered the future no matter what by informing Sarah of her own future, it makes sense that Skynet time pad was (re)built at an alternate time in a changed future.

But, someone else I talked with had a decent explanation for that. I would imagine the only reason Skynet knew when John was born, where, and his mother was from hospital computer records from the original timeline. I doubt John the rebel leader was running around telling everyone his childhood info. As soon as Sarah takes care of T1, she heads to Mexico. Since she is still wanted at that point for questioning in the Police HQ massacre, I doubt she had John in a hospital. So, no records of John's birth, no location, so Skynet cannot verify where or when to send a Terminator for his birth. However, Skynet could analyze his age and guess a appropriate time to attack him as a child from field reconnaissance of him during the Wars. This sets up T2 and explains both why they didn't send multiple Terminators in T1 and why they didn't attack her again when the first one failed.

The Craw
01-15-2008, 04:54 PM
i always assumed that skynet, in its last moments before defeat, decided the only way to survive was to change the past. therefore it dispatched various terminators, all at the same time, throughout the timeline to destroy john conner. so it wasn't a "i sent that one and he obviously failed so ill send this one next. no that didnt work. how about this one." senario.

DouglasMcc
01-15-2008, 06:42 PM
i always assumed that skynet, in its last moments before defeat, decided the only way to survive was to change the past. therefore it dispatched various terminators, all at the same time, throughout the timeline to destroy john conner. so it wasn't a "i sent that one and he obviously failed so ill send this one next. no that didnt work. how about this one." senario.

See, that might work from the computer's side. However, that raises a few problems: Why send the weaker of the Terminators to kill him in the womb? Why not send the 1000 or the T-X since you could erase all of his influence. But, it definitely couldn't work from the humans side. The time machine was destroyed after Reese went through it. That's set in canon. But, even if we assume Reese was lying, or didn't know the truth (God, I hope SCC doesn't go down a route like that) and others went from that timeline, once again, why wouldn't they send one of the Arnie Terminators to protect him in the womb? It also doesn't work, because the T-850 in part 3 says that he is the one who kills John before being captured and reprogrammed.

My take is that the whole thing is an infinite loop. Skynet and the Resistance each send a soldier into the past in T1. Skynet cannot kill John, but enough is altered to change the future, thus destroying the timeline Reese came from. In the new timeline, Skynet once again has the idea to kill John in the past. This time, it doesn't have any knowledge of John's birth or location so it sends a Terminator to an approximate time when it does have a computer record of John (i.e. when his mother is hospitalized and he is inserted into the foster home - there would have been government files detailing this - Skynet was a government project so would probably be able to access this info). Good Terminator and T-1000 change enough of the past to restart this loop leading to T-3 and then the series, et al.

DouglasMcc
01-15-2008, 06:48 PM
Finally had time to watch last nights episode on DVDR and it cleared up most of my minor problems. Sarah still has cancer, so T-3 is still viable in the mythos. Sure, the series might have erased it from the future, but at least they are acknowledging it existed.

There was no Terminator parts to ruin the timeline (won't ruin this part for those who haven't seen it, but that is answered) and the time machine and bank were apparently destroyed when they jumped - the reason the FBI would assume Sarah and John were killed in the "heist".

Plus, Cameron is every bit as dangerous and vicious as a Terminator should be. I was skeptical when it was first announced. But, I could see myself watching this on a consistent basis.

Now, here's hoping they coordinate the new movies with the series and keep our Terminator Mythos connected (no Highlander break please ...)

The Craw
01-15-2008, 06:48 PM
remember on austin powers when he was thinking about time travel too much and he went crosseyed? i think that just happened to me.:lol

The Craw
01-15-2008, 06:52 PM
Plus, Cameron is every bit as dangerous and vicious as a Terminator should be. I was skeptical when it was first announced. But, I could see myself watching this on a consistent basis. i loved when cameron was leaning on the car trying to be all bad-ass. i will keep watching this as well. it has potential for great charactor development which is one of the main things i look for in movies and tv.

Wor-Gar
01-15-2008, 07:45 PM
See, that might work from the computer's side. However, that raises a few problems: Why send the weaker of the Terminators to kill him in the womb? Why not send the 1000 or the T-X since you could erase all of his influence. But, it definitely couldn't work from the humans side. The time machine was destroyed after Reese went through it. That's set in canon. But, even if we assume Reese was lying, or didn't know the truth (God, I hope SCC doesn't go down a route like that) and others went from that timeline, once again, why wouldn't they send one of the Arnie Terminators to protect him in the womb? It also doesn't work, because the T-850 in part 3 says that he is the one who kills John before being captured and reprogrammed.

My take is that the whole thing is an infinite loop. Skynet and the Resistance each send a soldier into the past in T1. Skynet cannot kill John, but enough is altered to change the future, thus destroying the timeline Reese came from. In the new timeline, Skynet once again has the idea to kill John in the past. This time, it doesn't have any knowledge of John's birth or location so it sends a Terminator to an approximate time when it does have a computer record of John (i.e. when his mother is hospitalized and he is inserted into the foster home - there would have been government files detailing this - Skynet was a government project so would probably be able to access this info). Good Terminator and T-1000 change enough of the past to restart this loop leading to T-3 and then the series, et al.

Nice thinking.

But I'm guessing it's a simpler answer: SkyNet can't KILL Sarah because she is ultimately responsible for it's creation/AI awareness. Somehow. I don't know how yet. Neither do we. But that simple answer could stave off all suggestions of killing her in earlier times.

She's somehow, ironically, necessary for Judgement Day to occur.

That would explain why the new Term didn't kill her in the first episode. Of course, you also have to accept that the first Terminator movie (in Arnold's failure to kill Sarah) changed things enough that killing Sarah is no longer an option. It might have to do with the fact that she's pursuing Miles Dyson's work.

Darth Madden
01-15-2008, 07:58 PM
I just saw #2 and it was good, I think I'm going to keep watching. But why did the bad terminator run from Cameron or not recognize her model #? Something is going to be very fishy about her.

Vader AL
01-15-2008, 07:59 PM
Nice thinking.

But I'm guessing it's a simpler answer: SkyNet can't KILL Sarah because she is ultimately responsible for it's creation/AI awareness. Somehow. I don't know how yet. Neither do we. But that simple answer could stave off all suggestions of killing her in earlier times.

She's somehow, ironically, necessary for Judgement Day to occur.

That would explain why the new Term didn't kill her in the first episode. Of course, you also have to accept that the first Terminator movie (in Arnold's failure to kill Sarah) changed things enough that killing Sarah is no longer an option. It might have to do with the fact that she's pursuing Miles Dyson's work.

great theory! i'm buying what you're selling.

DouglasMcc
01-15-2008, 10:17 PM
Nice thinking.

But I'm guessing it's a simpler answer: SkyNet can't KILL Sarah because she is ultimately responsible for it's creation/AI awareness. Somehow. I don't know how yet. Neither do we. But that simple answer could stave off all suggestions of killing her in earlier times.

She's somehow, ironically, necessary for Judgement Day to occur.

That would explain why the new Term didn't kill her in the first episode. Of course, you also have to accept that the first Terminator movie (in Arnold's failure to kill Sarah) changed things enough that killing Sarah is no longer an option. It might have to do with the fact that she's pursuing Miles Dyson's work.

I admit that your idea has merit. However, that's not how I took the events in Episode 1. To me, at least, he was leaving her alive for strategical purposes. When she tries to shoot herself in the head, he stops her and says, "Killing yourself is the best option. With you alive, I can use you against him." Skynet, and the Terminator by proxy, know John Conner has a strong connection to his mother. So, I believe the Terminator left Sarah alive as a back-up strategy in case John didn't show up at the house, or got away from the trap there. Plus, when they are driving away from Dyson's house, he shoots Sara. Sure, it was random, and she might not have been his target. However, would a computer shoot haphazardly with no guarantee of which target it is going to hit, if one of those targets is central to it's creation? It wouldn't be logical.

There's also the fact that Judgment Day (the new,new,new one :lol) is in 2007 according to Cameron. If Sarah had already helped Judgement Day happen in 1999, the Terminator would have no problem with killing her. If she did after 1999, Skynet would already be gone - i.e. they skipped 2000 - 2006, so Sara couldn't have done anything then. She originally died on December 4, 2005 from Cancer, so it's not like she would have done anything in 2007 to create Skynet.

Beren
01-15-2008, 10:31 PM
I will be tuning in tomorrow night again. Here is what I think so far. The best things about it is well....it is a Terminator series. The bad, well lets start with the title character. Sarah Connor was horribly miscast. Sarah was 26 when she gave birth to John so John should be only 7 when she is 33. John Connor is this series appears to be about 16. Lena Headey doesn't even remotely have the screen presence of Linda Hamilton. I think Lena is a hot girl, but she just isn't right for the role. The same for Summer Glau. Her movements aren't right, and she doesn't have the presence for the role. Great to see her in a new role though. Hopefully, the scripts are good enough to carry the series.

ummm, I remember reading the script years ago and she is supposed to be 19 yrs old when she meets Kyle Reese, so she prob gave birth at age 20.

Is SC supposed to be 33 in this show? I didn't watch all of it, it looked cheap in passing and I had to roll my eyes at the little things they stole and just got plain wrong. James Cameron is SUCH a good writer, he makes characters consistent. All the one-liners given by the T-800 had a logical basis but this Teacher-Terminator saying "class is over" or whatever, the writers didn't understand or care about that stuff. And having the Teacher-Terminator end up with the EXACT same type of headwound like Arnie at the end of T2 was unbelievably lame.

I will watch a few eps but will expect it to degenerate into a Terminator showing up every week. Snore!!

Beren

Wor-Gar
01-15-2008, 10:41 PM
There's also the fact that Judgment Day (the new,new,new one :lol) is in 2007 according to Cameron. If Sarah had already helped Judgement Day happen in 1999, the Terminator would have no problem with killing her. If she did after 1999, Skynet would already be gone - i.e. they skipped 2000 - 2006, so Sara couldn't have done anything then. She originally died on December 4, 2005 from Cancer, so it's not like she would have done anything in 2007 to create Skynet.

This whole Judgement Day does get a little convoluted to say the least. :lol

I guess my theory applies to future writing not yet done. Maybe the T's could have killed Sarah before this last jump -- but now with everything in 2007, maybe they actually need her now. Maybe she's the one who "pushes the red button" sort of thing.

I'm sure if the show goes the distance, this idea -- this inevitable threat to everything Sarah is fighting against -- will come to the writers. It's a great tragic future for Sarah to come to realize: that she initiates Judgement Day...and there's nothing she can do to change that. Although she will no doubt spend many episodes trying.

The inevitability of the event, and her struggle against it -- much like John's struggle against becoming the supreme leader -- is great drama!

DouglasMcc
01-15-2008, 11:17 PM
ummm, I remember reading the script years ago and she is supposed to be 19 yrs old when she meets Kyle Reese, so she prob gave birth at age 20.

"Is SC supposed to be 33 in this show? I didn't watch all of it, it looked cheap in passing and I had to roll my eyes at the little things they stole and just got plain wrong. James Cameron is SUCH a good writer, he makes characters consistent. All the one-liners given by the T-800 had a logical basis but this Teacher-Terminator saying "class is over" or whatever, the writers didn't understand or care about that stuff. And having the Teacher-Terminator end up with the EXACT same type of headwound like Arnie at the end of T2 was unbelievably lame."

Beren

In all honesty, how can you comment on the writing in the show when you didn't bother to watch it? I found the writing in both episodes to be witty and entertaining. I will give you that the Terminator saying "Class Dismissed" was cheesy, but that's what the general public expects from a lineage of "I'll be back" and "Hasta La Vista Baby". It wasn't so horrible that it ruined the show. As for the facial head wounds, they weren't exactly like Arnie. Same idea, but not a complete ripoff. In T2, Arnold was left with most of his face at the end because A.) it was Arnold they were paying the big bucks to film and B.) it emphasized the humanization of the T-800 during the movie. In the series, it was used for one purpose and one purpose only - cost cutting. It way cheaper special effects wise to do minor facial scraps than it is to do chunks missing, etc. that would require blue screen work. The facial damage was very good so, I don't see a problem.

This isn't aimed at Beren per say, but most of the people *****ing are complaining about homages to the source material (head tilt, Come with me if you want to live, facial damage, etc.) DOH! It's Terminator people. The mom and pop action fans want and expect that stuff. Hell, I consider myself a Terminator fanatic and even I got a kick out of it. Television shows HAVE to grab the general audience. Without them, they die a quick death (Firefly anyone) no matter the quality.

shockwave
01-16-2008, 06:00 AM
In all honesty, how can you comment on the writing in the show when you didn't bother to watch it? I found the writing in both episodes to be witty and entertaining. I will give you that the Terminator saying "Class Dismissed" was cheesy, but that's what the general public expects from a lineage of "I'll be back" and "Hasta La Vista Baby". It wasn't so horrible that it ruined the show. As for the facial head wounds, they weren't exactly like Arnie. Same idea, but not a complete ripoff. In T2, Arnold was left with most of his face at the end because A.) it was Arnold they were paying the big bucks to film and B.) it emphasized the humanization of the T-800 during the movie. In the series, it was used for one purpose and one purpose only - cost cutting. It way cheaper special effects wise to do minor facial scraps than it is to do chunks missing, etc. that would require blue screen work. The facial damage was very good so, I don't see a problem.

This isn't aimed at Beren per say, but most of the people *****ing are complaining about homages to the source material (head tilt, Come with me if you want to live, facial damage, etc.) DOH! It's Terminator people. The mom and pop action fans want and expect that stuff. Hell, I consider myself a Terminator fanatic and even I got a kick out of it. Television shows HAVE to grab the general audience. Without them, they die a quick death (Firefly anyone) no matter the quality.


I wasn't complaining...:D Well maybe I shouldn't be too hard, robots are people too..:rotfl

pjam
01-17-2008, 12:13 AM
This whole Judgement Day does get a little convoluted to say the least. :lol

I guess my theory applies to future writing not yet done. Maybe the T's could have killed Sarah before this last jump -- but now with everything in 2007, maybe they actually need her now. Maybe she's the one who "pushes the red button" sort of thing.

I'm sure if the show goes the distance, this idea -- this inevitable threat to everything Sarah is fighting against -- will come to the writers. It's a great tragic future for Sarah to come to realize: that she initiates Judgement Day...and there's nothing she can do to change that. Although she will no doubt spend many episodes trying.

The inevitability of the event, and her struggle against it -- much like John's struggle against becoming the supreme leader -- is great drama!



That's a very intriguing take WG. I like it a lot and it does help explain why the T didn't off Sarah in the Pilot although I'm not sure that was his programmed order. But, your insight and points are valid and yes, it completely allows for a plausible story thread to evolve. :D

I just hope Josh F (EP) doesn't steal it without crediting you properly if it hasn't been thought out. :D

9 Eps were written and are in the can so we'll see how this Sarah can't be killed device plays out... let's face it, it has to be addressed sooner or later.

King Darkness
01-17-2008, 01:51 AM
I just got the through with the second episode and I think I am gonna move along and forget this series. I just couldnt enjoy it, I tried, really hard, but I just cant suspend my severe dislike of the writing.

Its bad in just about every way IMO.

lerath666
01-17-2008, 02:55 AM
probobly gonna go like smallville season 1. every episode has a new kryptonite powered villain ( read, new terminator). and will get very silly, very fast. the will realise the mistake in time for season two, fix it, and improve dramaticly.

Eli26
01-17-2008, 03:25 AM
probobly gonna go like smallville season 1. every episode has a new kryptonite powered villain ( read, new terminator). and will get very silly, very fast. the will realise the mistake in time for season two, fix it, and improve dramaticly.

That is if there is a season 2. Seeing as this is a sci-fi show on FOX, you can pretty much kiss that thought goodbye. This isn't the early 90's.

DouglasMcc
01-17-2008, 04:00 AM
That is if there is a season 2. Seeing as this is a sci-fi show on FOX, you can pretty much kiss that thought goodbye. This isn't the early 90's.


You have a point under normal circumstances. However, not during a strike-crippled season. Combine the lack of new shows, the amazing numbers for the first 2 episodes, plus no end to the strike in sight and this show will easily make it through the remaining filmed 7 episodes and get picked up next season.

galactiboy
01-21-2008, 08:13 PM
Tonights episode was pretty weak... nothing really seemed to happen and what did wasn't all that great.

Also, whats with the crummy looking Endos? Not sure exactly whats off, but they looks really fake... which is funny since they were able to look great in a movie thats over 20 years old :o

DouglasMcc
01-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Tonights episode was pretty weak... nothing really seemed to happen and what did wasn't all that great.

Also, whats with the crummy looking Endos? Not sure exactly whats off, but they looks really fake... which is funny since they were able to look great in a movie thats over 20 years old :o

No offense to Galactiboy, but I can foresee this ever week that Sarah and company are shooting it out with the Terminators. Complaint after complaint. What's wrong with character development. What's wrong with watching Cameron learn to be "human". I found this episode every better than the first 2, because it actually fleshed out (yeah, that's a pun ... couldn't resist) all 3 characters, who, outside of the films, were rather thin. They can't be fighting endo/terminators every week. And, I am totally sold on this show. Which is ironic, seeing as I was one of the first to assume the worst when it was announced.

As for why the Endos look different, A.) we have no idea what model they are ... could be earlier than the 800 models, and B.) this is a TV show - it probably has a 800,000 an episode budget. T2 had a 102 million dollar budget in 1991 ... which with inflation would be pushing close to 200 in today's market. Sure, technology has come a long way, but it's still a huge gap in funding. If you are expecting blockbuster movie F/X, might as well stop watching now, 'cause you are only going to be disappointed over and over. I thought they did a pretty good job considering their were 7 in the episode.

galactiboy
01-21-2008, 08:56 PM
Nothing wrong with character development, but I guess I didn't see much of it here. I enjoyed the first two episodes, but this one felt more like a bad melodrama than the previous episodes. And I mean the terminator is almost too silly to be interesting in some of the stuff she did in the episode today. Like she said before they went into school she was able to fool John, but now she's incredibly awkward all of the sudden? In some ways it almost feels like she is just playing the River character again, but w/o a better show behind it.

You're probably right about budget being an issue with the Endos, but you'd think that if there was one thing visually that ties the series into the films (the Endo) they would have them look a little better.

I'm still hopeful for the show, but I really did not find this one very good on a lot of different levels, not just the action side.

TheObsoleteMan
01-21-2008, 10:30 PM
I agree with galactiboy, boring episode tonight except for the Chet stuff. That bathtub scene was freaky! :horror

I'm liking Lena Headey's Sarah Connor less with each new episode. She just comes off way too soft.

IrishJedi
01-21-2008, 11:31 PM
For this show's sake, it had better start picking up some steam in the next week or two.

DouglasMcc
01-22-2008, 12:59 AM
For this show's sake, it had better start picking up some steam in the next week or two.

Really? Because the first 2 episodes had the highest viewer ratings of any new show this year. And, with the lack of competition, I am willing to bet it pulled in just as many millions last night. Still not sure what everyone is expecting, but SCC has exceeded my expectations so far. Everything seems to connect to the films, and both the drama and action are working. But to each his own. Thank God, unlike Firefly, Wonderfalls, etc. the Nielson families finally like something I do too ... :chew

Wor-Gar
01-22-2008, 01:09 AM
Still on the fence with this show. None of the principle characters really work yet.

But Chet rocks. Even if his whole blood-in-a-tub science seems a bit silly. Kinda reminds me of an Easy-Bake solution.

Sarah needs to hook up with these resistance guys quick so she can start having some missions or some story with a definitive goal.

bwayne
01-22-2008, 04:55 AM
Really? Because the first 2 episodes had the highest viewer ratings of any new show this year. And, with the lack of competition, I am willing to bet it pulled in just as many millions last night. Still not sure what everyone is expecting, but SCC has exceeded my expectations so far. Everything seems to connect to the films, and both the drama and action are working. But to each his own. Thank God, unlike Firefly, Wonderfalls, etc. the Nielson families finally like something I do too ... :chew

That is true, but the only thing wrong about that argument is that there is nothing else on TV due to the stike.

gdb
01-22-2008, 05:12 PM
I thought it started pretty weak and I thought the graffiti was... odd and the whole C story with the suicide girl seemed lazy. I don't know if that was art design or weak writing. But it picked up and got pretty fun. I really like the new 12 MONKEYS take on it.

I realize it's going to take awhile for the show to outgrow making every episode a morality play about whether murdering to prevent the future is OK, I just hope they get there soon. Alternatively, perhaps the show would work best on F/X or Spike where they could curse and show gore, violence and their heroes doing less than heroic things each week.

It was good seeing the program who explained the concept of love to Neo as the doctor.

galactiboy
01-22-2008, 05:17 PM
I'm hoping there is some deeper point to the suicide story than just some girl boinking her teacher. And honestly I had a hard time figuring out what the paintings were supposed to be until the last one.

gdb
01-22-2008, 05:29 PM
I didn't quite get that. I just got that it was a nebulous acting out thing. I suppose the teacher was her art teacher then. With 2 episodes in, it's hard to tell what the rhythm of the show is gonna be but if the suicide thing turns out to be more than a one episode C story with the suicide girl acting like a freak-of-the-week then that'll redeem it.

p!tu
01-23-2008, 12:26 AM
What i dont get is WHY! are they using crapy CG work for the terminators when a real one would do and would look 10times better then that horrible CG ones. ****! buy the Sideshow 1:1 and use that!

Dark_Spidey
01-23-2008, 07:37 AM
What i dont get is WHY! are they using crapy CG work for the terminators when a real one would do and would look 10times better then that horrible CG ones. ****! buy the Sideshow 1:1 and use that!

I couldn't agree more. Nothing looks crappier than a CGI Endo:monkey4:monkey4

p!tu
01-23-2008, 07:38 AM
I couldn't agree more. Nothing looks crappier than a CGI Endo:monkey4:monkey4

:rock:rock:rock:rock Thank you! and why the **** is a terminator looking to get Plastic Surgery!??? Just go kill the ****ing kid!!!! Jesus!!! what is this Nip/Tuck The Terminator Edition!

Darth Madden
01-23-2008, 07:42 AM
I'm hoping there is some deeper point to the suicide story than just some girl boinking her teacher. And honestly I had a hard time figuring out what the paintings were supposed to be until the last one.

Is that what that was all about? I couldn't figure it out at all.

The Craw
01-23-2008, 06:40 PM
does anyone else feel that sarah conner is going to bring on judgment day herself by interacting with these people from week to week? what if she inspires this andy fellow to build a better turk now that she burnt up his first one? maybe they should have just laid low.

p!tu
01-23-2008, 06:42 PM
does anyone else feel that sarah conner is going to bring on judgment day herself by interacting with these people from week to week? what if she inspires this andy fellow to build a better turk now that she burnt up his first one? maybe they should have just laid low.

Maybe they're shouldn't be a series at all!:cool:

bagelsncheesey
01-23-2008, 06:45 PM
Maybe they're shouldn't be a series at all!:cool:

Come on man, it's really not that bad of a series. Let's remember that this is TV, not the MOVIES.

... Papi.

p!tu
01-23-2008, 06:47 PM
Come on man, it's really not that bad of a series. Let's remember that this is TV, not the MOVIES.

... Papi.

I fill you Papi! but some stuff just isn't meant to be on TV. But to each his own! Juts think if Predator had a TV show:monkey4:monkey4:monkey4

The Craw
01-23-2008, 06:49 PM
Maybe they're shouldn't be a series at all!:cool:well i kinda like it so far. seems like they can get some good stories out of it. they also leave a lot of mystery like who created skynet and how this cameron "bot" was created. the other terminators dont even recognize her model and she didnt right out and explain herself to john in the first ep. leaves room for surprises in future episodes.
everyone is dismissing this series because it starts out slow but id rather have it start out slow and get better than to have it start out strong and then fizzle out like so many other shows out there. plus the CGI effects are the best you're gonna get from a tv show. its not like the are collecting money from ticket sales. plus they say the show is one of the most expensive to make right now.

gdb
01-23-2008, 06:50 PM
does anyone else feel that sarah conner is going to bring on judgment day herself by interacting with these people from week to week? what if she inspires this andy fellow to build a better turk now that she burnt up his first one? maybe they should have just laid low.

If she doesn't, I'm not sure there's much of a show.

gdb
01-23-2008, 06:53 PM
I fill you Papi! but some stuff just isn't meant to be on TV. But to each his own! Juts think if Predator had a TV show:monkey4:monkey4:monkey4

Could it really be worse than either AvP movie? :cool:

The Craw
01-23-2008, 06:56 PM
If she doesn't, I'm not sure there's much of a show.im not saying she shouldnt interact with people. im just wondering if when the smoke clears she will have created what she vowed to prevent. ironic at best.

gdb
01-23-2008, 07:03 PM
I didn't mean to be flip. I agree with you. But I think they're doing it on purpose. Drama needs conflict and the best conflict has irony.

The Craw
01-23-2008, 07:07 PM
I didn't mean to be flip. I agree with you. But I think they're doing it on purpose. Drama needs conflict and the best conflict has irony.that's why im hoping for some plot twists in the near future. im all for drama and charactors over heavy action. but you need some action too. it is terminator after all.

PS. does anyone remember what cameron said about those door paintings. she said it was a reimagining of "something". anybody remember cuz i missed what she said.

bagelsncheesey
01-23-2008, 07:17 PM
Could it really be worse than either AvP movie? :cool:

Yes, because both movies kicked ass. :rolleyes::cool:

galactiboy
01-23-2008, 07:27 PM
:rock:rock:rock:rock Thank you! and why the **** is a terminator looking to get Plastic Surgery!??? Just go kill the ****ing kid!!!! Jesus!!! what is this Nip/Tuck The Terminator Edition!

Yeah, I feel the same way... he looked a hell of a lot creepier in the homeless guy get-up and mask, and super creepy with chet's rotting face.

SolidLiquidFox
01-23-2008, 10:23 PM
I think it would be interesting if Cameron knows that Sarah Connor was the one to cause Judgment Day and she was sent by Cyberdyne to make sure it happens. She was ordered to take them to 2007 and plant the seeds for what needs to happen. Basically, Cameron is the prototype to what the Terminatrix model is (hence the blue eyes flashing instead of the red). Why else send a girl? Easy: to make it easier for both John and Sarah to trust her.

Her whole story about John Connor sending her from the future is bull*****. That's the only thing that can make this show interesting later on because, as is, it really is reaching into our Terminator nostalgia to make us like it. So once that is revealed you introduce a new "hero" Terminator protector that geeks can identify more with. Most likely a male and no-nonsense kinda guy full of one liners.

gdb
01-24-2008, 01:28 AM
I think it would be interesting if Cameron knows that Sarah Connor was the one to cause Judgment Day and she was sent by Cyberdyne to make sure it happens. She was ordered to take them to 2007 and plant the seeds for what needs to happen.

Now that would be very interesting!

There's something going on with her.

King Darkness
01-24-2008, 01:44 AM
I have chosen to pass on this show all together. I gave it one last chance and it does nothing but annoy me.

Bye Bye Sarah Connor Craptacular-Chronicles :wave

gdb
01-24-2008, 02:46 AM
PS. does anyone remember what cameron said about those door paintings. she said it was a reimagining of "something". anybody remember cuz i missed what she said.

She said, "Appears to be a reimagining of a Trompe-l’œil fresco."

I love closed captioning and TiVo.

DouglasMcc
01-24-2008, 04:18 AM
I have chosen to pass on this show all together. I gave it one last chance and it does nothing but annoy me.

Bye Bye Sarah Connor Craptacular-Chronicles :wave

But, don't forget to stop by every few days and update us ... :rolleyes:

DouglasMcc
01-24-2008, 04:26 AM
:rock:rock:rock:rock Thank you! and why the **** is a terminator looking to get Plastic Surgery!??? Just go kill the ****ing kid!!!! Jesus!!! what is this Nip/Tuck The Terminator Edition!

Wow. When people hate something, they really start to reach for complaints. Terminators were designed as tactical units, not blunt assault weapons. How much real world access would that Terminator have to hunt John in his homeless outfit - smelling of rotting Chet flesh? It makes sense that the robot would seek to replace that disguise if it was possible. If Sarah had gotten away in the first film after the tanker explosion, how long would the Endoskeleton have made it before we called in the Army and National Guard to blow him away? Arnie-Terminator would have tried the same thing in that situation. Hell, why did the Chet Endo bother to dress in the homless outfit to begin with ... oh yeah, because robots roaming the streets tend to draw attention.

My only problem with the whole sub-plot was the scientist going along with it, without questioning/ realizing he was going to die afterwards. But, I can write that off as him getting caught up in the revelation the endoskeleton had brought him about his life's work.

King Darkness
01-24-2008, 06:25 AM
I believe Douglas owns some stock in this show:lol

You have definitely taken up the role of SCC superfan:lol

Oh and just an update, I still think the show is weak and suffers from really poor writing.


Will be back with an update in a few days :wave

p!tu
01-24-2008, 07:39 AM
Wow. When people hate something, they really start to reach for complaints. Terminators were designed as tactical units, not blunt assault weapons. How much real world access would that Terminator have to hunt John in his homeless outfit - smelling of rotting Chet flesh? It makes sense that the robot would seek to replace that disguise if it was possible. If Sarah had gotten away in the first film after the tanker explosion, how long would the Endoskeleton have made it before we called in the Army and National Guard to blow him away? Arnie-Terminator would have tried the same thing in that situation. Hell, why did the Chet Endo bother to dress in the homless outfit to begin with ... oh yeah, because robots roaming the streets tend to draw attention.

My only problem with the whole sub-plot was the scientist going along with it, without questioning/ realizing he was going to die afterwards. But, I can write that off as him getting caught up in the revelation the endoskeleton had brought him about his life's work.

Well i just think its a really gay tactic. He is wasting a lot of freaking time with is Nip/Tuck crap. Just find them and kill them. Oh but then we already know John is not going to die. So whats the point of the show....$$$$$

Darth Madden
01-24-2008, 07:40 AM
I think it would be interesting if Cameron knows that Sarah Connor was the one to cause Judgment Day and she was sent by Cyberdyne to make sure it happens. She was ordered to take them to 2007 and plant the seeds for what needs to happen. Basically, Cameron is the prototype to what the Terminatrix model is (hence the blue eyes flashing instead of the red). Why else send a girl? Easy: to make it easier for both John and Sarah to trust her.

Her whole story about John Connor sending her from the future is bull*****. That's the only thing that can make this show interesting later on because, as is, it really is reaching into our Terminator nostalgia to make us like it. So once that is revealed you introduce a new "hero" Terminator protector that geeks can identify more with. Most likely a male and no-nonsense kinda guy full of one liners.


Thats a very interesting idea. I could see something like that being the case.

SolidLiquidFox
01-24-2008, 08:10 AM
Thats a very interesting idea. I could see something like that being the case.

Another hint: why would she not take orders from John Connor? In T2 we establish that John Connor is John Connor no matter what timeline he is from. The command would be to "obey John Connor". That should be consistent in all the movies.

Also, why would the resistance have an "unknown" terminator? I can accept them reprograming existing terminators, but actually redesigning terminator or improving them?

Darth Waller
01-24-2008, 08:22 AM
I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to continue with this show. The whole bathtub re-skin thing was a little over the top, even for a sci-fi show.

Darth Madden
01-24-2008, 08:35 AM
Another hint: why would she not take orders from John Connor? In T2 we establish that John Connor is John Connor no matter what timeline he is from. The command would be to "obey John Connor". That should be consistent in all the movies.

Also, why would the resistance have an "unknown" terminator? I can accept them reprograming existing terminators, but actually redesigning terminator or improving them?

Yeah I agree. The part that got it for me is when the other Terminator didn't recognize her and then ran away... Terminators don't run away. Then when she threw in the "I don't take orders from THIS John" I knew something was fishy about her.

Blackhole
01-24-2008, 08:54 AM
I FINALLY get to see what the fuss is about...

Lousy TV show delays...

Michael Crawford
01-24-2008, 09:24 AM
I haven't gotten a chance to watch the third episode yet, and I haven't kept up with this whole thread so forgive me if I repeat something that's already a dead issue:

- what the Hell was up with the Terminator head coming through the time jump with them? That can't happen. Didn't make sense. And you're telling me that the Terminator's body, which I suspect would have raised a few eyebrows, just ended up in a garbage dump?

- I really like Cameron, and I think she's the most interesting aspect of the show. I like that she told Sarah that she only takes orders from future John, and I do think she was sent back by John, not Cyberdyne. While it's an interesting idea tha Cyberdyne sent her, clearly the other Terminator was there to wipe out the resistance fighters. I'm assuming that not keeping Sarah alive (her dying from cancer) is part of why Cyberdyne ends up still coming into existence, and why Cameron said the answer to stopping them required them jumping to 2007. It also appears as though Cameron is very capable of creative lying, and I'd bet she was lying about the CAT scan ability.

- BTW, the Terminator 'running' makes complete sense. He's not there to destroy Cameron, he's there to kill John. It's key that he did NOT know what she was. We're assuming that Cameron is like T2 Arnie - a Cyberdyne Terminator adjusted by John. What if the resistance has survived long enough in the future to do more than that...what if Cameron is their own creation, built from Cyberdyne technology but with their own new parts, programming and developments? Like I said, who, what and how Cameron fits in to all this is the most interesting aspect of the show.

- The action is great. We haven't had a good ass kicking action show on TV for quite some time now, and this one has some great stuff.

- I'm not loving Sarah at this point. She's way too whiney, still way too 'why me?'. When she kicked the cops ass in the police car in the first episode, that was the T2 Sarah. When she waivered on killing the guy and Cameron had to do it for her, that was T1 Sarah. Bring back T2 Sarah please.

- Some of the plot stuff is ridiculous. John going back to Sarah's ex's house was stupid and useless. It's a heavy handed plot device to keep the guy in the show, but it made no sense.

- I'm hoping they go somewhere useful with the FBI agent.

So yea, I have some serious groans when watching, but I'm interested enough to keep it up for a few more weeks. Besides, what am I going to watch - Moment of Truth?

DouglasMcc
01-24-2008, 03:39 PM
I haven't gotten a chance to watch the third episode yet, and I haven't kept up with this whole thread so forgive me if I repeat something that's already a dead issue:

- what the Hell was up with the Terminator head coming through the time jump with them? That can't happen. Didn't make sense. And you're telling me that the Terminator's body, which I suspect would have raised a few eyebrows, just ended up in a garbage dump?

I discussed this with a friend also. Here's my theory. The Terminator was still covered in flesh when the time jump started. Sarah fired the gun right as they were jumping. So, it's technically possible that the head was still cover in flesh as they jumped and the time shift was already over by the time the flesh was singed away. The better way to have shown that would have been a severed head coming through, but I doubt that would have gotten past the censors. As for the body lying in a dump, how is that so hard to believe? It's implied the jump caused an explosion/ structural damage to the bank. So, if the endoskeleton was just lying there among a huge heap of twisted metal, it's possible it would get bulldozered out and dropped into a landfill. Maybe not as probable, but since when have movies or TV been bastions of probability? :google


- I really like Cameron, and I think she's the most interesting aspect of the show. I like that she told Sarah that she only takes orders from future John, and I do think she was sent back by John, not Cyberdyne. While it's an interesting idea tha Cyberdyne sent her, clearly the other Terminator was there to wipe out the resistance fighters. I'm assuming that not keeping Sarah alive (her dying from cancer) is part of why Cyberdyne ends up still coming into existence, and why Cameron said the answer to stopping them required them jumping to 2007. It also appears as though Cameron is very capable of creative lying, and I'd bet she was lying about the CAT scan ability.

I agree with this 100%. And, I am willing to accept that my opinion may be clouded by "Tam Vision". But, I enjoy it and that's all that matters.



- BTW, the Terminator 'running' makes complete sense. He's not there to destroy Cameron, he's there to kill John. It's key that he did NOT know what she was. We're assuming that Cameron is like T2 Arnie - a Cyberdyne Terminator adjusted by John. What if the resistance has survived long enough in the future to do more than that...what if Cameron is their own creation, built from Cyberdyne technology but with their own new parts, programming and developments? Like I said, who, what and how Cameron fits in to all this is the most interesting aspect of the show.

- The action is great. We haven't had a good ass kicking action show on TV for quite some time now, and this one has some great stuff.

Actually, that Terminator had no idea that John was in the future. Cameron tells them that that unit was sent to track and kill the rebel soldiers who were sent to 2007 by John. But, I also agree that it made sense to run. If he was one of a 100 units on a battlefield, running wouldn't make sense. But, he wasn't. We know of 2, but I don't think the 2007 Terminator realizes that "Chet" is there with him. So, it would make more sense to retreat and reassess the situation rather than taking a chance being defeated by an opponent it knew was capable of winning - i.e. another cyborg.



- I'm not loving Sarah at this point. She's way too whiney, still way too 'why me?'. When she kicked the cops ass in the police car in the first episode, that was the T2 Sarah. When she waivered on killing the guy and Cameron had to do it for her, that was T1 Sarah. Bring back T2 Sarah please.

- Some of the plot stuff is ridiculous. John going back to Sarah's ex's house was stupid and useless. It's a heavy handed plot device to keep the guy in the show, but it made no sense.

- I'm hoping they go somewhere useful with the FBI agent.

So yea, I have some serious groans when watching, but I'm interested enough to keep it up for a few more weeks. Besides, what am I going to watch - Moment of Truth?

I actually like some of the nuances they have introduced with this Sarah - i.e. the fact that she is willing to kill the makers of the atomic bomb in her dreams, but struggles with killing in real life. Sure, she was a soldier in T2, but she had been kept inside an asylum and separated from John for most of his life. Something tells me that the time they spent together between T2 and the series helped bring her back from the edge. Hell, we saw that in T2 when she couldn't bring herself to kill Dyson. Just because she's willing to do anything to save John, doesn't mean she has to become some kind of heartless killing machine - i.e. she doesn't have to become like her enemy to defeat it. As for John going back to the ex's house, I didn't find that ridiculous. Sure, it was a bad strategical move. He put himself in danger. But, it was implied in the pilot that John was starting to look to him as a father figure - he picked out the engagement ring himself. Why is it so hard to believe that a teenager, who tend to be ruled more by emotion than logic, would seek out a loved one after a life altering moment like the time jump.

Darklord Dave
01-24-2008, 06:56 PM
I have to admit that I like the show more than most of you. There are some holes, but things that are SO glaring, such as the metal head being able to come through time, that they just have to explain them eventually.

I also like Cameron a lot - although she was human enough to fool John at first and now she's all robogirl. But I guess she doesn't have to act in front of John and Sarah, so that could be explained. I think that they'll reveal that she's from a further point in the future than the other terminators and that's why they don't recognize her model. That could explain how she can act more human too.

But no matter how many wrong turns they take - this show will still be better than the Bionic Woman. :cool:

The Craw
01-24-2008, 07:05 PM
I think it would be interesting if Cameron knows that Sarah Connor was the one to cause Judgment Day and she was sent by Cyberdyne to make sure it happens. She was ordered to take them to 2007 and plant the seeds for what needs to happen. Basically, Cameron is the prototype to what the Terminatrix model is (hence the blue eyes flashing instead of the red). Why else send a girl? Easy: to make it easier for both John and Sarah to trust her.

Her whole story about John Connor sending her from the future is bull*****. That's the only thing that can make this show interesting later on because, as is, it really is reaching into our Terminator nostalgia to make us like it. So once that is revealed you introduce a new "hero" Terminator protector that geeks can identify more with. Most likely a male and no-nonsense kinda guy full of one liners.however, she seems to know things about john like when she told Sarah that John said she was the best fighter he knew. the best. and that thing about reading the wizard of oz in spanish. those dont seem like things she'd be programmed with, they seem like something she was told. almost like she was a battle companion with the john of the future for a long time.

gdb
01-24-2008, 07:20 PM
I believe Douglas owns some stock in this show:lol

You have definitely taken up the role of SCC superfan:lol

Oh and just an update, I still think the show is weak and suffers from really poor writing.


Will be back with an update in a few days :wave

For someone who has so draped themselves in The Highlander, you sure seem surprisingly critical of weak storytelling and poor writing. :monkey3

The Craw
01-24-2008, 07:23 PM
douglas im on your side. ill be superfan #2.:lol

The Craw
01-24-2008, 07:24 PM
For someone who has so draped themselves in The Highlander, you sure seem surprisingly critical of weak storytelling and poor writing. :monkey3Uh Oh. now you've done it. *jumps for cover under desk*:lol

ChrisfromSideshow
01-24-2008, 07:24 PM
I'm a fan of the show too - yea - there is a bit of cheese and story problems, but its entertainment! :) And its Terminator!

TheObsoleteMan
01-24-2008, 07:28 PM
I hadn't even thought about the metal head time travelling. Guess that shows how much I have my brain turned off during the show.

The Craw
01-24-2008, 07:30 PM
I hadn't even thought about the metal head time travelling. Guess that shows how much I have my brain turned off during the show.i try not to think too hard about stuff like that. my head hurts.:lol you cant have fool proof time traveling in any movie or show so i just try to take what they give me.

gdb
01-24-2008, 07:32 PM
I think Terminator 2 and 3 showed that all metal terminators can time travel so I don't think the flesh rule is as hard and fast as it was in the first movie.

p!tu
01-24-2008, 07:37 PM
I think Terminator 2 and 3 showed that all metal terminators can time travel so I don't think the flesh rule is as hard and fast as it was in the first movie.

what exactly are you talking about?

Michael Crawford
01-24-2008, 07:38 PM
I think Terminator 2 and 3 showed that all metal terminators can time travel so I don't think the flesh rule is as hard and fast as it was in the first movie.

Huh? When did that happen? I certainly don't remember it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

gdb
01-24-2008, 07:42 PM
Didn't Robert Patrick come through just as "living metal" or something? And wasn't the chic in T3 the same deal? (I don't think she was clothed in flesh... but it's been awhile.)

Edit: maybe my earlier post should have read "all-metal."

Vader AL
01-24-2008, 07:45 PM
it's a good, fun show. unless you over analyze it and it's easy to bring it down but i still enjoy it and well...what else is on t.v.? bionic woman, deal or no deal, american idol, the apprentice....o.k. i have to stop now, i'm making myself sick.

i can't wait for the SW t.v. show to come out.....there will be riots in the street with the nitpicking on that one!

The Craw
01-24-2008, 07:46 PM
i just figured that the head wasnt in the activated time stream. the head got blown off and sailed into the already activated time field and probably overloaded the reverse negative power flux capacitor node. i just hate it when that happens.:lol

gdb
01-24-2008, 07:47 PM
i just figured that the head wasnt in the activated time stream. the head got blown off and sailed into the already activated time field and probably overloaded the reverse negative power flux capacitor node. i just hate it when that happens.:lol

Ah, yes! It seems so simple now... :lol:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl

TheObsoleteMan
01-24-2008, 07:55 PM
i just figured that the head wasnt in the activated time stream. the head got blown off and sailed into the already activated time field and probably overloaded the reverse negative power flux capacitor node. i just hate it when that happens.:lol

Yeah, it must've inverted the polarity and emitted a positronic tachyon burst which... damn, that's all the Star Trek technobabble I can remember.

The Craw
01-24-2008, 07:59 PM
Yeah, it must've inverted the polarity and emitted a positronic tachyon burst which... damn, that's all the Star Trek technobabble I can remember.plus if you look over cameron's shoulder you can see she didn't isolate the postive power flux coupling. that could have been a factor.

Michael Crawford
01-24-2008, 08:03 PM
or the writing just sucks. :D

When there's a key element of a fantasy universe that they base huge amounts of the show on (like even having the gun buried in the Termnators thigh so he can be sure of having it), and then throw it out for dramatic effect...yea, I don't think that's over analyzing.

But some folks liked Bionic Woman, so there's really no accounting for taste. :lol

The show isn't terrible, but it certainly isn't all that and a bag of chips. Thank God Chuck was back on tonight.

Darth Madden
01-24-2008, 09:02 PM
i can't wait for the SW t.v. show to come out.....there will be riots in the street with the nitpicking on that one!

OMG, I think I am going to avoid these boards after that first episode... its going to get ripped to shreads.

gdb
01-24-2008, 09:54 PM
or the writing just sucks. :D

When there's a key element of a fantasy universe that they base huge amounts of the show on (like even having the gun buried in the Termnators thigh so he can be sure of having it), and then throw it out for dramatic effect...yea, I don't think that's over analyzing.

But some folks liked Bionic Woman, so there's really no accounting for taste. :lol

The show isn't terrible, but it certainly isn't all that and a bag of chips. Thank God Chuck was back on tonight.

Wow. What's next for you, gonna burst into an Italian restaurant and try to convince people that pasta doesn't taste as nearly as good as they think it does?

And you're wrong to assume that just because a movie over 20 years old made a big deal about time travel rules that a show geared for modern audiences isn't allowed to take some liberties without the writing sucking. A big rule of dramatic literature is that drama trumps logical causality. Just ask the shark that blew up at the end of Jaws.

I'm not so sure that the Sarah Connor Chronicles is in the same universe as the movies -- just as Smallville isn't in the same universe as Superman Returns and Blade The Series wasn't in the same universe as Blade the movies (or TV's MASH vs. the movie or Alice vs. Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore). We can only hold the show accountable to the rules presented in the show and I don't remember specific time travel rules given yet. (And don't throw out that the Terminator had a gun in his thigh in the pilot. We don't know what that was about. Plus, that was the pilot. Kramer had a dog in the pilot of Seinfeld. You don't hear people getting too concerned with the dog disappearing.)

And I assure you, while they're welcome to watch, this show is not aimed at the over 40 crowd who were old enough to see the R rated movie in 1984. Frankly, Hollywood doesn't care what their opinions of the show are.

SOLIDSNAKE
01-24-2008, 10:59 PM
guys i missed mondays episode !

where on the net can I watch it

I cant watch it on FOX.COM because I live in canada

Any suggestions ?

Michael Crawford
01-25-2008, 06:43 AM
Wow. What's next for you, gonna burst into an Italian restaurant and try to convince people that pasta doesn't taste as nearly as good as they think it does?

And you're wrong to assume that just because a movie over 20 years old made a big deal about time travel rules that a show geared for modern audiences isn't allowed to take some liberties without the writing sucking. A big rule of dramatic literature is that drama trumps logical causality. Just ask the shark that blew up at the end of Jaws.

I'm not so sure that the Sarah Connor Chronicles is in the same universe as the movies -- just as Smallville isn't in the same universe as Superman Returns and Blade The Series wasn't in the same universe as Blade the movies (or TV's MASH vs. the movie or Alice vs. Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore). We can only hold the show accountable to the rules presented in the show and I don't remember specific time travel rules given yet. (And don't throw out that the Terminator had a gun in his thigh in the pilot. We don't know what that was about. Plus, that was the pilot. Kramer had a dog in the pilot of Seinfeld. You don't hear people getting too concerned with the dog disappearing.)

And I assure you, while they're welcome to watch, this show is not aimed at the over 40 crowd who were old enough to see the R rated movie in 1984. Frankly, Hollywood doesn't care what their opinions of the show are.

This isn't about a movie 20 years ago - it's about this show. On this show they went for the idea of the Terminator carrying a gun buried in his hip. They're clothes can't travel with them. They EVEN SAY IT IN THE SHOW. John asks Cameron about the weapon/time machine in the bank, because he knows they can't bring the equipment back and she says the scientist had to go back and build it out of parts they could find. How much clearer does it have to be? And then they decide for 'effect' to break the rule they've set without any explanation by having the head come through. That's called bad writing. I certainly hope you're not implying that people under 40 can't tell the difference between bad writing and good.

I'm not telling people in an Italian restaurant that pasta is bad - I'm telling them that the pasta at Big Boy's isn't as good as the pasta at Bucci De Beppo. That doesn't mean I don't ever have the spaghetti at Big Boy's - I already said I'd be watching Sarah to see if they manage to get their legs - but if I can have my choice, I'm eating the stuff that tastes better. If I had to choose between watching Sarah and a show like Lost, Heroes or The Office, there'd be no contest.

gdb
01-25-2008, 05:32 PM
This isn't about a movie 20 years ago - it's about this show. On this show they went for the idea of the Terminator carrying a gun buried in his hip. They're clothes can't travel with them. They EVEN SAY IT IN THE SHOW. John asks Cameron about the weapon/time machine in the bank, because he knows they can't bring the equipment back and she says the scientist had to go back and build it out of parts they could find. How much clearer does it have to be? And then they decide for 'effect' to break the rule they've set without any explanation by having the head come through. That's called bad writing. I certainly hope you're not implying that people under 40 can't tell the difference between bad writing and good.

I'm not telling people in an Italian restaurant that pasta is bad - I'm telling them that the pasta at Big Boy's isn't as good as the pasta at Bucci De Beppo. That doesn't mean I don't ever have the spaghetti at Big Boy's - I already said I'd be watching Sarah to see if they manage to get their legs - but if I can have my choice, I'm eating the stuff that tastes better. If I had to choose between watching Sarah and a show like Lost, Heroes or The Office, there'd be no contest.

Why would I be implying that people under 40 can't tell the difference between bad writing and good? I think you've missed my points entirely. Maybe you should read my post again.

And you know what, some people think Bucci De Beppo is crap. Do you want them bursting in the middle of your dinner, telling you how you should be at La Dolce Vita? Not every show is Lost or the Office. And Heroes, quite frankly, now that's a show that's not "all that and a bag of chips." That show has been written around in circles. I'm not saying it's crap, but it's not something I would hold up as an example of good writing.

Film and TV are tailor made for their audiences and when it comes to the Sarah Connor Chronicles, you ain't it. You think that because you had a big problem with it, that the audience it was made for will. It's ignorant and arrogant to think they're going to react the same way you did.

I don't know why you feel the need to quibble over the head. The head is not clothes or equipment. All-metal Terminators go through in the movies. The head was "alive" at the time. It could have been covered in gore and flesh when it entered the bubble that burned off before it was spit out. In fact, just to throw it out -- the head, as written, might have been covered in gore but the f/x or the censors couldn't do it. Yet it's the writing that's bad?

Why does the head come through the bubble? Because it's good TV. They didn't open the show with that image by mistake.

The Craw
01-25-2008, 05:55 PM
i like my theory on the head and im sticking to it.:lol

galactiboy
01-25-2008, 06:11 PM
Hey, maybe time travel laws can make mistakes... I bet time travel got written up for his boss on that one:lol

DouglasMcc
01-27-2008, 09:11 PM
This isn't about a movie 20 years ago - it's about this show. On this show they went for the idea of the Terminator carrying a gun buried in his hip. They're clothes can't travel with them. They EVEN SAY IT IN THE SHOW. John asks Cameron about the weapon/time machine in the bank, because he knows they can't bring the equipment back and she says the scientist had to go back and build it out of parts they could find. How much clearer does it have to be? And then they decide for 'effect' to break the rule they've set without any explanation by having the head come through. That's called bad writing. I certainly hope you're not implying that people under 40 can't tell the difference between bad writing and good.


Once again, I think someone else brought up an interesting point. Robert Patrick wasn't flesh. He wasn't covered in flesh. He was completely made out of liquid metal. So, doesn't that throw the rule that was set up in T1 out the window?

I will still stick with my theory which got completely ignored. The terminator was still fully skinned when the rift opened. Sarah shot right as the time vortex engulfed them. So, why is it so hard to accept that the head entered the rift with flesh around it, but the flames, etc. singed it all away by the time they entered 2007? It's no more improbable than the physics of T1 or T2. Hell, if it was the movies, they would probably have shown the head decapitated and covered in burned flesh. But, that wouldn't have gotten by TV censors. I respect your opinion, Micheal. But, to call something bad writing that can be easily explained is unfair. It may be bad writing to you, but I have found the first 3 eps. very well written.

TheObsoleteMan
01-27-2008, 09:19 PM
Once again, I think someone else brought up an interesting point. Robert Patrick wasn't flesh. He wasn't covered in flesh. He was completely made out of liquid metal. So, doesn't that throw the rule that was set up in T1 out the window?

I recall Robert Patrick being naked when he came through, so one assumes that he must be able to turn into living flesh if he was naked instead of being metal or already having clothing formed on him.

gdb
01-27-2008, 09:27 PM
Watching the scene again, I think you're right, DouglasMcc. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the scene was conceived as using a flaming severed head but for budget, artistic or censorship reasons became the skull. Regardless, the end result of a skull bouncing out of the time bubble and heading for the screen is a great way to open a show and it is in thanks to a writer.

DouglasMcc
01-27-2008, 10:39 PM
I recall Robert Patrick being naked when he came through, so one assumes that he must be able to turn into living flesh if he was naked instead of being metal or already having clothing formed on him.

So, we are okay with physic that say metal can turn into flesh, and vice versa. But, we flip out at the possibility that a skull's flesh was singed away during time trip? ok ....

Wor-Gar
01-27-2008, 10:52 PM
I recall Robert Patrick being naked when he came through, so one assumes that he must be able to turn into living flesh if he was naked instead of being metal or already having clothing formed on him.

T-1000 was liquid metal. It appeared as flesh and clothing but was metal -- remember the bullet holes that reformed? And the fact he could wallk through bars? So it's a good point that the T-1000 went thru time without a flesh covering. I guess 'liquid' metal breaks the rule.

Screwy rule not to be able to send metal back anyway. Guess it sounded realistic at the time (1984). You'd think metal would be the easiest thing to send back.

jedibear
01-27-2008, 11:01 PM
The gun in the Terminator's leg...was covered by flesh wasn't it? Didn't he have to slice his leg open to get to it? That's what I inferred from the scene...
And the flying skull...couldn't it have had flesh on it that burned away during the "jump" that was whacked out when Sarah shot into it? It looked like the weapon shot and the "jump" both ripped the terminator apart there. It all worked for me...

I'm liking this show. I think the leads are good (especially Ms. Headly...a rare combination of sexiness, intelligence and sensitivity that works...she pulls off the quiet scenes and looks good totin' a gun) and the writing is fine. These first three episodes blow away two-thirds of "Heroes" soph season...it's a well-produced show that I hope gets a full chance to get it's story going...

I'm just sorry it's not on this week...I've read in the trades that it's dropping rapidly in the ratings. Hopefully Fox will take the tact that they have nothing else on but Prison Break & mostly Idol-style crap and somebody might be there that remembers it took another show they got nine seasons out of a while to catch on too...

galactiboy
01-27-2008, 11:11 PM
Seems re-running just the first hour episode is a pretty bad move 3 weeks into the series. Kinda f's up any momentum it might have had. I could see replaying on a different night, but not having a new episode?!? May be the beginning of the end for another Fox SciFi series :monkey2

DouglasMcc
01-28-2008, 02:31 AM
Seems re-running just the first hour episode is a pretty bad move 3 weeks into the series. Kinda f's up any momentum it might have had. I could see replaying on a different night, but not having a new episode?!? May be the beginning of the end for another Fox SciFi series :monkey2


Let's say it all together now ... STRIKE = NO NEW TV = NEW SARAH CONNER CHRONICLES = SHOW MAKES IT TO AT LEAST SEASON 2.

So, stop doom and gloomin'. Fox, try as they will, can't fubar this one ... well, at least until season 2.

gdb
01-28-2008, 03:49 AM
Seems re-running just the first hour episode is a pretty bad move 3 weeks into the series. Kinda f's up any momentum it might have had. I could see replaying on a different night, but not having a new episode?!? May be the beginning of the end for another Fox SciFi series :monkey2

I think we can blame this one on W. The State of the Union Address is screwing up the schedule tonight, not Fox. But with Fox's history, I can understand the jump to blame them.

Michael Crawford
01-28-2008, 06:48 AM
The T-1000 took on the physical properties of anything he faked - not just the look, but the actual properties. If you touched his skin, it didn't feel like steel. That's how they got around it.

I can buy that the head was covered in flesh to start and some how seared off during the trip (although I'm not sure how anything generating that much heat wouldn't hurt the three of them at the same time), even if that does make no sense with what we know about the possibility of time travel. Albert would be rolling his eyes at that particular concept, but this is a FOX show, and not a particularly well written one at that :D

While everyone seems bent on convincing me that the goofy head and body turning up the way they did is somehow important, it's the handling of Sarah that will determine if I stick it out with the show past a couple more episodes. Soap opera Sarah isn't much to my liking. Thankfully, Cameron is still very interesting. The funny thing is that many regular viewers have commented that they want her dumped.

I'm still so lukewarm on this show that I haven't watched the third episode. Since George W will be telling us how terrific the economy is tonight, I'm glad I have something else to watch.

Darth Waller
01-28-2008, 09:43 AM
I'm still so lukewarm on this show that I haven't watched the third episode. Since George W will be telling us how terrific the economy is tonight, I'm glad I have something else to watch.

:lol :lol :lol

galactiboy
01-28-2008, 10:10 AM
I think we can blame this one on W. The State of the Union Address is screwing up the schedule tonight, not Fox. But with Fox's history, I can understand the jump to blame them.

Ah, good point... I hadn't thought about that.

And Douglas, seriously... you don't need to be such an ardent defender of the show :lol, I do plan to still watch it :rolleyes:

Darth Waller
01-28-2008, 12:17 PM
Hold onto your butts. This show may be taking a turn for the worse.


Fox has released a description of "Queen's Gambit," the Monday, Feb. 11 episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Here's how Fox describes the episode:

"Brian Austin Green joins the cast. When Sarah's friend Andy submits his computer into a chess competition, she revaluates his computer's capabilities and worries where it could all lead. During the chess match, Sarah comes face-to-face with a stranger whose history is closely tied to hers.

Meanwhile at school, Cameron gets called into grief counseling and John makes a new friend in shop class. Agent Ellison discovers remnants from a Terminator battle."

galactiboy
01-28-2008, 12:55 PM
Brian Austin Green :monkey4:monkey4

And I thought she destoyed the chess computer?!? Maybe it was more fire resistant than we thought... or he had a kevlar chair in front of it :lol

Darth Waller
01-28-2008, 01:07 PM
And I thought she destoyed the chess computer?!? Maybe it was more fire resistant than we thought... or he had a kevlar chair in front of it :lol

:rotfl:lol:rotfl

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's...

http://www.misdirections.com/images/SUPERCHAIR-FULL.jpg

TheObsoleteMan
01-28-2008, 03:43 PM
T-1000 was liquid metal. It appeared as flesh and clothing but was metal -- remember the bullet holes that reformed? And the fact he could wallk through bars? So it's a good point that the T-1000 went thru time without a flesh covering. I guess 'liquid' metal breaks the rule.


If the living flesh rule doesn't apply, why come through naked? There's no reason for him to be naked unless he has to morph into flesh to be able to time travel. Not that any of this really matters to me though, all of it requires a huge suspension of disbelief.

gdb
01-28-2008, 04:59 PM
If the living flesh rule doesn't apply, why come through naked? There's no reason for him to be naked unless he has to morph into flesh to be able to time travel. Not that any of this really matters to me though, all of it requires a huge suspension of disbelief.

This is a point that has bugged me ever since I saw T2. The reason the T-X came through naked was we were supposed to think that he's the good guy all throughout the first 25 minutes. It was supposed to be this big twist when Arnold tells Sarah, "Come with me if you want to live." But the whole ad campaign was focused on selling Arnold as the good guy so the drama that was set up was lost.

Had it been written with the mindset that we'd walk into the theatre knowing that Arnold gets to be the good guy in this one, I think it would have been written differently. Surgically implanting the T-X in a live cow or something maybe.

TheObsoleteMan
01-28-2008, 07:03 PM
I just rewatched the first episode, and it's really striking how much more natural Cameron is. They should've kept her that way instead of turning her into Data.

tomandshell
01-28-2008, 07:09 PM
This is a point that has bugged me ever since I saw T2. The reason the T-X came through naked was we were supposed to think that he's the good guy all throughout the first 25 minutes. It was supposed to be this big twist when Arnold tells Sarah, "Come with me if you want to live." But the whole ad campaign was focused on selling Arnold as the good guy so the drama that was set up was lost.


What was really fun was that my wife had never seen either of the Terminator movies, and as soon as I found that out, we watched the first two on video. She had no idea that Arnold was the good guy in the second one, and it was a lot of fun to see her experience it unspoiled.

TheObsoleteMan
01-28-2008, 07:19 PM
This is a point that has bugged me ever since I saw T2. The reason the T-X came through naked was we were supposed to think that he's the good guy all throughout the first 25 minutes. It was supposed to be this big twist when Arnold tells Sarah, "Come with me if you want to live." But the whole ad campaign was focused on selling Arnold as the good guy so the drama that was set up was lost.

Yeah, I remember seeing it for the first time and clearly realizing that I was supposed to think that Robert Patrick was the good guy, but like you said, the marketing made it obvious ahead of time that Arnie was going to be the hero. I can't imagine what possessed them to ruin what would've been the best twist since Vader being Luke's dad.

galactiboy
01-28-2008, 08:11 PM
I never knew they were planning on him looking like the good guy... man, that really would have made the first viewing so much better. Dumb studios and their ad campaigns :rolleyes:

KitFisto
01-28-2008, 08:25 PM
Was tonight just a repeat? I forgot it was on. :monkey2. I hope it was just a repeat so I didn't miss anything.

Fritz
01-28-2008, 08:39 PM
Was tonight just a repeat? I forgot it was on. :monkey2. I hope it was just a repeat so I didn't miss anything.

Yeah, it was a repeat of the first episode. :cuss

Fritz
01-28-2008, 08:41 PM
...When Sarah's friend Andy submits his computer into a chess competition...

WTF!?!? What was the fire for? :huh Lemme guess, the room was protected against fire, earthquake, hail, fire and brimstone. :rolleyes:

Darth Caedus
01-28-2008, 08:55 PM
WTF!?!? What was the fire for? :huh Lemme guess, the room was protected against fire, earthquake, hail, fire and brimstone. :rolleyes:

I think it was to destroy the computer or kill the guy. which is retarded, because the guy could just make another one

King Darkness
01-28-2008, 09:03 PM
Man, that episode was like watching the first one all over again:monkey4

This show blows:cool:

gdb
01-28-2008, 09:15 PM
Yeah, I remember seeing it for the first time and clearly realizing that I was supposed to think that Robert Patrick was the good guy, but like you said, the marketing made it obvious ahead of time that Arnie was going to be the hero. I can't imagine what possessed them to ruin what would've been the best twist since Vader being Luke's dad.

It put butts in the seats but at the price of the storytelling. I had a teacher at UCLA who was adamant that movies should be written keeping in mind that any clever twists like that will be used in the ad campaign or spoiled by word of mouth so make sure the story doesn't fall flat when it happens. Cameron, of course, didn't go to film school.


What was really fun was that my wife had never seen either of the Terminator movies, and as soon as I found that out, we watched the first two on video. She had no idea that Arnold was the good guy in the second one, and it was a lot of fun to see her experience it unspoiled.

I've often wondered how people would react to it. I wanted to try that with my girlfriend but she had seen the commercials so much that when we saw the first 15 minutes of the first film on TV, she thought Arnold was also the good guy in that movie as well. :lol

p!tu
01-29-2008, 07:04 AM
Man, that episode was like watching the first one all over again:monkey4

This show blows:cool:

:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl:rotfl it does blow!

Fritz
02-06-2008, 09:11 PM
Wow, has this series lost everyone's interest this fast? It's been more than two days and no one's talked about the last episode (#4). :monkey2

p!tu
02-06-2008, 09:13 PM
cause its

DO DO!!!!! as in pupy as in ****!

KitFisto
02-06-2008, 09:14 PM
Wow, has this series lost everyone's interest this fast? It's been more than two days and no one's talked about the last episode (#4). :monkey2

I am still watching. I like it so far. It's not "great" yet, but it's solid enough to keep me watching. There are very few network show I actually watch, but this is one of them.

Wor-Gar
02-06-2008, 09:18 PM
Wow, has this series lost everyone's interest this fast?

Pretty much. Although I do like the new Terminator, Carter. He's much better at "acting" like a Terminator than 'Chet'.

Fritz
02-06-2008, 09:18 PM
Foe some reason Lena Headey as Sarah Conner gets hotter to me each episode. Toss in Summer Glau and to me that's a winner. Who cares about writing and character development? :lol

pjam
02-06-2008, 09:20 PM
I almost can't watch it anymore. Ep 2 was good but 1 of out 4 don't cut it.

I also can't buy Lena as Sarah, I tried but I think Sarah was miscast.

She just bugs the hell out of me now.

I do think the kid and Summer are fine, but the writing is meh, storywise.

TheObsoleteMan
02-06-2008, 09:31 PM
I lost interest about halfway through this last episode and changed the channel.