View Full Version : Could the KOTD have defeated...

08-01-2005, 11:10 PM
the Morgul Lord...?


08-02-2005, 12:47 AM
I think it would come down to the ringwraiths' infamous "black breath" vs. the offluence from the grave of thousands who likewise never flossed.

Call it a toss-up.

08-02-2005, 02:28 AM
in a flatulence competition i think kotd would have it, the green ones are the worst

08-02-2005, 03:10 AM
I guess the question is would the KOTD still be considered "a man" even though he is in ghost form? Is so, neither one would be able to kill the other.

Then they could combine forces and try to take over middle earth. :lol

08-02-2005, 05:24 AM
If the ML could get beat by a girl, I'd say the KotD would kick his ass...


Nemo Nint
08-02-2005, 07:05 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Then they could combine forces and try to take over middle earth.<hr></blockquote>

hahaha that's awesome! <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif" />

I think the King of the Dead could have defeated the Morgul Lord. Then again, he never fought at Minas Tirith, none of the army of the dead did. They fought at the harbour against the corsairs, and that was it (as far as I remember). But I'm thinking the king of the dead was pretty much impervious to swords, just like the cursed pirates on the Black Pearl. All except that one guy who was blasted appart by a grenade.

And yet the army of the dead.. at least in the movie, were made to be intangible. So really... slashy slashy! AAAArrrr... *down falls the Morgul Lord*

08-02-2005, 08:43 AM
I think the key here is that the KotD is "dead" while the ML is "undead". I'd call it a stalemate except that the ML appears to have some other-worldly powers (when he destroyed Gandalf's staff, for example.) and the KotD is basically, just dead. Not sure. Tough call.

By the way, wouldn't a simple Legolas arrow shot right into the helm cavity have taken out the Morgul Lord? Leg's not a man but an elf, so that would have followed the guideline of "no man can kill me". Heck, even Gimli and one of his throwin' axes could have done the job.

08-02-2005, 09:23 AM
Stalemate - just like Jesus and Santa Claus...

08-02-2005, 10:26 AM
Bad comparision, dstephan.

Jesus, the King of Kings wins every time, my brother.

08-02-2005, 10:33 AM
I think I saw this question answered somewhere in the arda encyclopedia. The Morgul lord was probably the greatest black magic wizard (Sauron is better of course) in all middle earth. The power if the KOTD strived from a curse. And every magic spell could be broken if you take your time and precaution. /opinion Is hard to imagine the KOTD attacking the Morgul Lord in the present form under the Dark Lord banner. If the Dark Lord managed to take hold of the ring, things would have been easier for as the power of the Lord grew so the power of those close to him.

08-02-2005, 10:46 AM
Wow... i am utterly shocked at my fellow boardmembers lack of knowledge on this subject. Firstly, the ML is the only one who is suseptible to death.... the KOTD is already dead and therefore... can't not be made deader...

The ML is still tricky though, because he is almost impossible to kill. The KOTD certainly couldn't have killed him, so the simple answer to your questions, it would be a draw.

The long answer and explanation regarding the Morgal Lords mortality is confusing and detailed... but basically goes something like this.

The ML is basically immune to death save for the stab of a specific Elvish blade. The blade was made century's ago and the legend was that "No man could kill him."

So when Galadriel gave to Merry the Elvish dagger, she was setting him up to take out the ML. So when the ML is bearing down on Eowyn and Merry comes up from behind... it is really HE who allows for the ML to be killed... because had Eowyn just stabbed him with her Rohan sword.. it would not have mattered.. but seeing as how he had already been made suseptible, Eowyn was able to complete the fortold and kill him.

Ok, can I have my geek card now?

08-02-2005, 11:21 AM
Good topic!

I like your explanation L4P,I honestly did not know that about the Elven Blade, :thud cool ! (great 777th post btw,congrats!:clap )

To be honest not knowing the Books/Films as well as some of you I would not be able able to hazard a guess, but It would be a kick a$$ fight !

:toast :gimli

08-02-2005, 11:23 AM
thanks Shell!

I am sure there are those who can explain it better than i did.. but that is the gist!

08-02-2005, 12:31 PM
Good explanation. As long as I don't have to try and kill either one I'm happy.

The Dwimmerlaik
08-02-2005, 01:51 PM
I dont think so , first why they ill gonna fight?? and second THE KOTD take no importance of the ML and the black breath of the ML is really good.

08-02-2005, 02:21 PM
Gee, L4P, you have no clue what you're talking about.

Are you sure you're not an American?

08-02-2005, 02:27 PM
Umm, i live in America... but aparantly I am stupid. Please, enlighten me....

08-02-2005, 02:34 PM
here is something that may explain it a little clearer... i do hope this pleases Naugladur... :rolleyes

How was Eowyn able to kill the Witch-king?
This is a biggie that people come up with different theories on. First is that she was able to do it because she was a woman, not a man, since the Witch-king is obviously convinced that no man can kill him (this is made extra confusing with her response "I am no man"). The Witch-king's source of that information was a prediction by an elf called Glorfindel, who said that he would not be killed by a man (which of course, he wasn't). So it wasn't that she was able to kill him in a way in which a man would have been unable -- it's just that she fulfilled a prophecy.

There's also contention about the role of Merry in this whole thing. Merry (we think, although I've heard different opinions on this as well) stabbed the Witch-king in the leg with a Westernesse blade (the one Aragorn gave him on Weathertop in the first film), which was forged specifically to fight against the Witch-king (I believe before he actually became the Witch-king). Tolkien doesn't specify, but the theory is that this is a special blade that somehow rends the essence, or the fabric, if you will (not the clothing, but rather the force that holds him together) of the Witch-king, which is what makes Eowyn ultimately able to kill him with her plain old Rohirric blade. There are multiple camps on this, as neither of them are men: some people think that Merry (a hobbit) was actually the person who killed the Witch-king. Others think that it was all Eowyn (a woman). I personally am of the thought that it was both, and one could not have done it without the other. In my opinion, this is the theory that is the most supported by the information from Tolkien.

It should be noted that this is a contentious point, since there have been people who have said that Merry was not actually given a Westernesse blade on Weathertop in the film, and also that the contingencies that allowed Merry to get his blade back after being kidnapped and disarmed by the orcs in the book was not present in the film, so that Merry was armed only with a plain old Rohirric blade given to him by Eowyn. It's possible that, to simplify, the director decided to do away with the Westernesse angle altogether. Merry distracted him, and Eowyn dealt the death blow

Bodie The Cursed
08-02-2005, 02:58 PM

08-02-2005, 03:13 PM
KOTD could not defeat the Witch-king, who would have used his magic to blow his spirit away.

Agree that Merry and Eowyn destroyed Wiki together. Hobbitses are not men either, so it is part of the prophecy also.

08-02-2005, 04:01 PM
Why was something so indestructible, so heavily armoured?:p

08-02-2005, 05:02 PM
Ha! Good point Gaz! And one that never entered my head! My only guess would be to appear menacing....

As if the dark robes wrapped around an invisible blackness wasn't intimidating enough...

08-02-2005, 11:31 PM
L4P - you're so close, and I assume from your references only being from the movies that you haven't read the books?

Anyway - Tolkien makes this quite clear, in the books, after the Witchking is dead.

Basicaly, it is the sword from Barrowdowns that Merry took with him - Pippin & Sam also had swords from the Barrowdowns - that were made by the men of Westernese during their long battle with the Witchking of Angmar.

These swords had been created specifically to break the Witchking's spell and make him vulnerable to attack.

So basically, when Merry stabbed the ML in the leg with this blade, his spell was broken and became vulnerable to the attack from Eowyn.

Could the KotD have done as Eowyn? I see no reason why not, especially if he had a trusty hobbit (or anyother type of creature) stabbing the ML with such a blade.

Could the ML have killed the KotD? Nope, as the KotD is Dead.


08-02-2005, 11:35 PM
Why was something so indestructible, so heavily armoured?

Too look cool in the movie? :rolleyes :p

08-03-2005, 06:04 AM
Why was something so indestructible, so heavily armoured?
Maybe he had an inferiority complex? Trying to compensate for something? :lol

08-03-2005, 06:22 AM
Am I missing something here? I thought the LOTD and Morgul Lord were both fictitious characters.

08-03-2005, 07:04 AM
"no living man" How bout dead ones? KOTD hands down!!!

08-03-2005, 07:42 AM
"no living man" How bout dead ones? KOTD hands down!!!

If that's true, than any ghost from the KoD 's army could have killed the Wiki, and that makes the mighty Wiki sounds a little pathetic.

08-03-2005, 07:46 AM
The power of the army of the dead comes from fear. Theywere able to defeat the human Corsairs by fear, not the sword. The movie shows KOTD trying to strike Aragorn, but that never took place in the book.
The Witch King would have no fear of the dead, since that is essentially what he is.

08-03-2005, 10:06 AM
I bet they would have sat down for a game of cards, a beer and a laugh.

Morgul Lord:"You should have seen the look on the old man's face when I 'sploded his staff!"

KOTD:"By the way, have you ever noticed that that little friend of his looks like the kid from the movie the sixth sense when he's scared?"

08-03-2005, 10:34 AM
Thanks Gozum!!

I knew somebody would know the intricate details... I have actually read the books, but just once and I guess that didn't stick. I need to go back and re-read them. But I got the basics! :rock

08-03-2005, 11:35 AM
(ml would have painted his mace shield maiden red).