PDA

View Full Version : Hot Toys Predator 2 - (battle damaged version) full spec



wookster
12-17-2007, 03:16 AM
You even get the breathing mask, medi kit and an alien skull..too cool, now I'm gonna have to get 2 Pred 2's..damn you Hot Toys, in a good way.


Hot Toys – MMS45 - Predator 2 - 14 inches Predator model kit (battle damaged version)
================================================== =======================

This battle damaged Predator, approximately stands 35 cm tall with more than 22 points of articulation and amazing detail, features bloody face, armory and cut off arm, as well as:

l Interchangeable left arms
l Interchangeable mouth / teeth
l Medical kit with individual small tools inside
l Oxygen mask
l Alien skull head accessory

{Release date: Q1-2008}

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/01-4.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/02-4.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/03-4.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/04-3.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/05-3.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/06-3.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/07-3.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/08-2.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/09-3.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/10-4.jpg

wookster
12-17-2007, 03:17 AM
More pics-

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/11-2.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/12-3.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/13-2.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/14-2.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/15-2.jpg

TOE
12-17-2007, 03:32 AM
so i guess you are getting 2 type of heads? Open and closed?

edit: nevermind, it says interchangeable mouth and teeth

lerath666
12-17-2007, 04:02 AM
SWEET! SOOOO happy i missed the first one now. hope these gp up for preorder this week! :rock+-

Jamal
12-17-2007, 04:07 AM
Friggen sick, i knew they would include the face mask

creecher
12-17-2007, 04:17 AM
"interchangeable mouth and teeth"

I'd like to see how these are changed. I heard the AvP-R Pred had articulated mandibles. Is this what I am looking at? Or is a section of the face a separate part?

Has this one got his Shuriken? What does his 'oxygen' mask attach to?

Looks like the version to have.

Jamal
12-17-2007, 04:26 AM
If im correct its the same as the Kotobukiya Predator 2 Vinyl Snap Kit, you just remove the mouth area and replace it with the other mouth he comes with. They both just basically snap in and out

Ill be ordering this sucka!

I reckon HT are gonna variant the P1 also, one masked version and one battle version to represent his strip down for the final battle with Arnold

Siona
12-17-2007, 04:42 AM
Nice, I was right (for a part)

I don't know if I want him ...

MaulFan
12-17-2007, 04:44 AM
"interchangeable mouth and teeth"

I'd like to see how these are changed. I heard the AvP-R Pred had articulated mandibles. Is this what I am looking at? Or is a section of the face a separate part?

The PredAlien has articulated mandibles. If you look closely at the mandible area on this Predator, you can see a seam where the mandibles can come away and be changed out. I love that HT is always working to better good products.

Jamal
12-17-2007, 04:45 AM
"interchangeable mouth and teeth"

I'd like to see how these are changed. I heard the AvP-R Pred had articulated mandibles. Is this what I am looking at? Or is a section of the face a separate part?

Has this one got his Shuriken? What does his 'oxygen' mask attach to?

Looks like the version to have.

I dont think hes got any projectiles dude, all he had in the movie was the spear tip, smart disc and the explosive shot that he sent into Harrigan's chest armor from his gauntlet

Grange Wallis
12-17-2007, 04:45 AM
Oh so happy I missed the first version now! Just brought a loose Bio Helmet from eBay so I have the full figure's accessories plus more!!!


Golden!

I'm still waiting on a Dancing Predator Darklord Dave!
:chew:chew:chew:chew:chew:chew

Jamal
12-17-2007, 04:46 AM
Yeah if you didnt get the first one this is definantly a sign to get this one lol

leatherneck
12-17-2007, 04:48 AM
If you look closely at the Predator 2 that is out now you can see that the mouth area was designed to be removable. There is a seam around the mouth, at least on mine there is. It is hard to see and blends in pretty well, but it is there.

Siona
12-17-2007, 04:50 AM
One thing "bad", no additional shuriken with blood :/

Jamal
12-17-2007, 04:51 AM
But he didnt have a Shuriken in the movie so why would they add one..

lerath666
12-17-2007, 05:24 AM
they mean his disc I beleive...

Siona
12-17-2007, 05:24 AM
Because he still have the plasma gun :D, don't know just like that, to change with the regular ;).

Or make Harrigan with it :chew

Oh yes, I mean disc/shuriken, sorry

agent_85
12-17-2007, 05:41 AM
OOOOOO....cheeky Hot Toys, let everyone buy the 1st Jack Sparrow and 1st Predator 2 Hunter and then release the updated (vastly superior) versions, nasty money-grabbers they are! It's good to see that they have taken into consideration all the little things fans wanted like the medi-kit and so on. So am I right in assuming the only thing missing on this version is the bio helmet?

drunk_leprechaun
12-17-2007, 05:54 AM
oookkay looks like ill be getting this for sure

Stendec
12-17-2007, 06:04 AM
As far as the P1 is concerned, HT could easily include everything needed to vary the figures look in one issue. If they'd include interchangable/posable mandibles or a second "screaming" head, a "final battle" variant wouldn't be needed in my opinion. Still, they are a business and are looking to milk their licenses for all they are worth :rolleyes:

gdb
12-17-2007, 06:30 AM
Oh my god!!

That's an embarassement of riches. Seriously, if I could buy these figures from Wal-Mart, I would. That way, if a vastly superior version was announced within 90 days I could return it.

gdb
12-17-2007, 06:31 AM
You even get the breathing mask, medi kit and an alien skull..too cool, now I'm gonna have to get 2 Pred 2's..damn you Hot Toys, in a good way.


Hot Toys – MMS45 - Predator 2 - 14 inches Predator model kit (battle damaged version)
================================================== =======================

This battle damaged Predator, approximately stands 35 cm tall with more than 22 points of articulation and amazing detail, features bloody face, armory and cut off arm, as well as:

l Interchangeable left arms
l Interchangeable mouth / teeth
l Medical kit with individual small tools inside
l Oxygen mask
l Alien skull head accessory

{Release date: Q1-2008}

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/retskoow/10-4.jpg


Hey Wookster, you don't list the spear, disk, or full helmet. I see the spear and disk pictured. Should we assume we get the spear and disk but not the helmet? And as always, thanks for the pics!

ragacin
12-17-2007, 07:21 AM
Ya Know...
It is a superior figure as far as all the little details, but I am glad that I have the first version, because I never did care for the blood splattered versions of stuff. And even though the arm is swappable, he still has green $#!t all over him :).
The thing is that it is very upsetting that HT is doing all these "redos" of the figures. I could understand when they redid Superman and would not be suprised if they redid some of the AVP guys or Batman, since those were early MMS efforts. But to have a figure redone as soon as it comes out essentially, I just don't like it. I have only enjoyed looking at my Pred 2 for about a month only to find that the new and improved version is coming that makes the one I "thought was best", look like a second stringer. Same way with Jack Sparrow. The smiling version is obviously the way to go, as it is more Jack's character. Fortunately I didn't buy version 1 until I found out about version 2.

wookster
12-17-2007, 07:25 AM
Hey Wookster, you don't list the spear, disk, or full helmet. I see the spear and disk pictured. Should we assume we get the spear and disk but not the helmet? And as always, thanks for the pics!

I would imagine so, strange that they don't list the spear and disc in the spec HT are usualy pretty hot on that sort of thing. I think people would be mighty peeved if after seeing the pics they didn't get the weapons. No mask though, but I guess they've got to make the first release desirable for some reason.
That Alien skull is sooo freakin cool, I'd get just for that, never mind the interchangeable mandibles!

FeatheredSerpent
12-17-2007, 07:34 AM
I read that the mask that you see in the pics only comes with the sse version, so you can have the mask if you buy that version of the figure...

Looks awesome by the way. I can only afford 2 predators and I have the AVP requiem predator preordered and wanted to buy the elder predator 2. Now this. Any thoughts on which 2 I should get?? :confused: :D

Reinhardt
12-17-2007, 08:03 AM
i think the elder predator 2 is more impressive, but it all depends on what is more important to you. P2 is definitely more iconic.

as much as i love this version, i have the first version and love it. i am upset that Hot Toys keeps milking us, but thankfully i haven't taken a sip yet.


I read that the mask that you see in the pics only comes with the sse version, so you can have the mask if you buy that version of the figure...

Looks awesome by the way. I can only afford 2 predators and I have the AVP requiem predator preordered and wanted to buy the elder predator 2. Now this. Any thoughts on which 2 I should get?? :confused: :D

The ill Jedi
12-17-2007, 08:14 AM
Oookay, after seeing these pics and that Alien skull, I think I might have to get this bastard after all. I thought it was kinda pointless at first, but those accessories are AWESOME!! :rock

abake
12-17-2007, 09:45 AM
This one is also making me rethink my decision not to get the P2 pred (Elder's on pre-order)...
The accessories are just too nice!

DouglasMcc
12-17-2007, 11:15 AM
Okay, this takes me back to Sideshow's Newsletter hint:

Keep a close lookout for the next dynamic model kit from Hot Toys, the Battle Damaged Predator from 'Predator 2'! This very detailed kit will be available in limited edition at SideshowCollectibles.com, plus a special version will be available only from Sideshow that includes an exclusive accessory - a removable Predator mask! Don't want to miss your chance to have this outstanding figure? Watch our upcoming newsletters for Pre-Ordering information and more details!

I doubt that A.) Hot Toys would list the oxygen mask on it's main page if it only came with the SSC version and B.) that SSC would call the oxygen mask a Predator mask. So, I think it's reasonable to assume (well, unless the newsletter person FUBARed this) that the SSC version will come with the mask from the V1 version. Since all of the versions come with closed mandibles to exchange out, the mask would work on this one. If that's the case, I am SO going to finally spend over 100 dollars on a HT figure not named Jack .... LOL.

Kuzeh
12-17-2007, 11:20 AM
It would be awesome if Sideshow has the Oxygen and Pred mask on their version!!

bagelsncheesey
12-17-2007, 12:04 PM
Oookay, after seeing these pics and that Alien skull, I think I might have to get this bastard after all. I thought it was kinda pointless at first, but those accessories are AWESOME!! :rock

Hell yeah man! No question about it :rock

Can't wait. The additional mouth sculpt, mask, skull, everything. Totally worth it.

Rob
12-17-2007, 12:20 PM
Eh, to be honest, it doesn't look like much.

I'll probably pick up the head, Alien skull and medi-kit on ebay sometime.

But I do agree with ragacin. I'd much rather have the one that isn't all bloodied up.

IrishJedi
12-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Damn it... gonna have to get this one, too.

The Mike
12-17-2007, 12:32 PM
Still on the fence about this one....I like the screaming pose and bloodied up variant but I'm already stretched really thin in Q1 so....this might really be just bad timing.....

Maybe we'll get an AvP Pred with hybrid chestburster coming out.....:lol

Sachiel
12-17-2007, 03:02 PM
They should have given the original an interchangeable open mouth sculpt. I hope they do with Predator 1.

Bardoon
12-17-2007, 03:39 PM
This has now become an official MUST-HAVE! :rock :rock :rock

Captain Faramir
12-17-2007, 03:44 PM
Looks like he got on some Jedi's bad side. Nice! :cool:

uscmhicks
12-17-2007, 03:52 PM
I posted this guy up over at the hunters lair and all the p2 fans are drooling over him so its all good for me and them we have to get em all lol.
It does look great though

Praetorian380
12-17-2007, 04:05 PM
Im sold!!
I cant wait!! I wanted to get him even before all of this information was released. Now it just makes him a MUST HAVE!!

This one is gonna rock!!

tigerfeet
12-17-2007, 04:39 PM
Item is now available on ebay...... with the good abc-express store :-) boy i've spent alot with them.

IronFingaz
12-17-2007, 06:45 PM
Those are some awsome accessory's:rock I'm getting one:D

Jamal
12-17-2007, 11:33 PM
Item is now available on ebay...... with the good abc-express store :-) boy i've spent alot with them.

Jesus ive bought too much

EDIT - Actually i dont know if this can be justified in my opinion after thinking about it

Blackhole
12-18-2007, 10:04 AM
That figure is pretty sweet...

I just wish he came with his helmet too...

I dig that rustic bronze look...

And for some reason I like the mask look more than the unmasked look...

I do like the unmasked look though...

I wish this was still one figure with ALL that stuff...

usmcchet9296
12-18-2007, 10:43 AM
I love my P2 but after seeing this I almost wish i didnt get it but that being said I think Im gonna pass on this one
Id rather spend my money on AVPr and P1 figures

Reinhardt
12-18-2007, 11:06 AM
That figure is pretty sweet...

I just wish he came with his helmet too...

I dig that rustic bronze look...

And for some reason I like the mask look more than the unmasked look...

I do like the unmasked look though...

I wish this was still one figure with ALL that stuff...

i agree completely. it's pretty convenient to release specs on this AFTER P2 is sold out.

Praetorian380
12-18-2007, 11:19 AM
EDIT - Actually i dont know if this can be justified in my opinion after thinking about it

whatever do you mean?

Jamal
12-18-2007, 11:46 AM
I dont know, but i ordered anyway :monkey2

Rob
12-18-2007, 12:26 PM
I love my P2 but after seeing this I almost wish i didnt get it but that being said I think Im gonna pass on this one
Id rather spend my money on AVPr and P1 figures

You shouldn't. The problem with this particular P2 Pred is that it will only work for the scenes after he was injured by Harrigan.

Me, I'd rather have mine in tip top, kicking ass, shape(Like the regular version).

But I do want some of the accessories(Just the Alien Skull, open mandibles and medi-comp), though I wish they didn't bloody up his mouth.

Blackhole
12-18-2007, 01:15 PM
Looks like us who want the best of both will have to buy both...

Annoyed...But it still is a cool figure :D

gdb
12-18-2007, 04:34 PM
That figure is pretty sweet...

I just wish he came with his helmet too...

I dig that rustic bronze look...

And for some reason I like the mask look more than the unmasked look...

I do like the unmasked look though...

I wish this was still one figure with ALL that stuff...

Well, the newsletter says...

Keep a close lookout for the next dynamic model kit from Hot Toys, the Battle Damaged Predator from 'Predator 2'! This very detailed kit will be available in limited edition at SideshowCollectibles.com, plus a special version will be available only from Sideshow that includes an exclusive accessory - a removable Predator mask! Don't want to miss your chance to have this outstanding figure? Watch our upcoming newsletters for Pre-Ordering information and more details!

Since the Battle Damaged Predator that is being solicited from the Hot Toys website and sites like ABC Express all have the breathing mask, what mask is the newsletter talking about unless it's his normal old mask? Although text on the Sideshow site that came from Hot Toys promised masks before when masks weren't coming -- Predator 2 Elder, I'm looking at you.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 04:39 PM
Why would we want a mask though for a figure whos drawing point is its new head design with the howling sculpt?

IMO if you want a mask go buy the original. I think this particular figure is for people who want to display it maskless

gdb
12-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Why wouldn't we want a mask that gave us more display options? Why wouldn't we want one figure that did it all?

Jamal
12-18-2007, 04:44 PM
Id love a figure that did it all but Hot Toys loves the money so they present us with the options i listed above.

I didnt experience any pleasure having to buy this one also believe me

gdb
12-18-2007, 04:47 PM
Yeah, I feel like a dodged a bullet the size of my head in not getting the first version of this guy. The only time I felt more thankful for missing out was when I missed the original Scar through a weird set of circumstances only to find the opportunity to get the Ani-Com Scar.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 04:50 PM
That version of Scar is awesome but when you display him next to an Elder it kinda looses the leetness, just because of the fact its the same headsculpt with different paint.

I think HT have defined their Preds since the AVP ones, they've released the market is massive for them and have notched up the production quality. P2 & P2 Elder are such good examples next to AVP releases

Rob
12-18-2007, 04:56 PM
IMO if you want a mask go buy the original. I think this particular figure is for people who want to display it masklessOr an excuse for more cash.

IMHO, the first version is much better. I like that he's not bloodied up(Which, no offense to HTs, doesn't look very good) and more in kickass mode. You could easily get the new head and mandibles separately now that the boys on ebay are splitting up the figures. Which is exactly what I'm going to do, along with the Alien Skull and Medi-Comp, adding some cool accessories to an already perfect figure.

Off topic; Is it me, or is Scar's helmet alittle too pitted? In the movie it was a lot smoother. Celtic's mask is still the coolest AVP mask, though.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Your right, i was thinking of doing that too but im not keen on changing it every so often id like to leave it alone :monkey5

Les Walker
12-18-2007, 04:59 PM
I want this!!!! :monkey2
I am just trying to justify it with all the unbought AVPR stuff too!

Maybe I will get it anyway. I can always count on Jamal's enthusiams to make me want to get one anyway. :D

gdb
12-18-2007, 05:00 PM
They do share a family resemeblance. :lol Besides, that's what his helmet is for.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2108/pc110067al3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3990/pc120015rk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2853/pc120024gb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:01 PM
I am Les Walkers inspiration :P

Im glad i gave the AVP-R Alien a miss now

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:02 PM
Im one of the people who think the AVP Elder is one of Hot Toys best!

Rob
12-18-2007, 05:07 PM
I'm just glad Hot Toys made their Pred bodies look like the ones from the originals and not the oversized, steroid, football player Pred bodies Anderson made them.

Rob
12-18-2007, 05:08 PM
EDIT: Double post.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:09 PM
The paint app on the Predator 2 body was awsome, im kind of disappointed the P2 Elder wasnt as good

Rob
12-18-2007, 05:10 PM
Eh, the P2 one is alright, though it's not that accurate to the body in the movie.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:13 PM
Yeah, the app is great considering its quality but considering movie accuracy not really

Praetorian380
12-18-2007, 05:14 PM
I'm just glad Hot Toys made their Pred bodies look like the ones from the originals and not the oversized, steroid, football player Pred bodies Anderson made them.

I second that - I hated the way the preds looked in AVP -

Over sized, too bulky, too short, too many exaggerated weapons, dreds were waaay too long, and the way they moved just seemed off to me - Oh! and the part where they hit their chest to show that they were proud, what was that crap!!

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:16 PM
The suit is only as good as the man who tries to bring it to life and lets face it these dudes aint no Kevin Peter Hall.

Praetorian380
12-18-2007, 05:22 PM
The suit is only as good as the man who tries to bring it to life and lets face it these dudes aint no Kevin Peter Hall.

I definitely agree with that

Rob
12-18-2007, 05:30 PM
The suit is only as good as the man who tries to bring it to life and lets face it these dudes aint no Kevin Peter Hall.

True, though considering how bulky it was(Ian Whyte, the guy who's playing the Predator in AVP-R and the original AVP, complained about that) and Anderson's direction, I wouldn't judge Ian's performance in AVP1, though IMHO, he's certainly improved, seeing his Wolf Predator in action.

gdb
12-18-2007, 05:32 PM
Maybe having a less constricting suit will help his performance.

Rob
12-18-2007, 05:35 PM
I second that - I hated the way the preds looked in AVP -

Over sized, too bulky, too short, too many exaggerated weapons, dreds were waaay too long, and the way they moved just seemed off to me - Oh! and the part where they hit their chest to show that they were proud, what was that crap!!

Agreed. I especially hated the facial design;
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/1719823823_3788db33a5.jpg

So fake looking, and the skin, forehead, eyes, chin and mandibles look horrible! According to Anderson, they did that because they wanted Scar to look more 'human' and 'relatable'. Seriously, WTF?!

Anderson really casturated the Preds, man:monkey2...

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:38 PM
I also totally agree with you about the suit, the P1 suit was MASSIVE if you watch the special features of P1 youll be amazed by it. Imagine how much bigger and hotter the AVP suit must be. Also i agree with Predator expressions in AVP as being TOTAL CRAP. They didnt look nearly as vicious at P2 and P1

gdb
12-18-2007, 05:57 PM
Anderson really casturated the Preds, man:monkey2...

Castrating a guy whose face already looks like a woman's va-jay-jay is just uncalled for.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 05:59 PM
LOL, ever seen one with teeth?

gdb
12-18-2007, 06:03 PM
LOL, ever seen one with teeth?


You just made me shudder....

Jamal
12-18-2007, 06:07 PM
You my man have a dirty mind :P

Bardoon
12-18-2007, 07:24 PM
And not to mention that bad rubber material they used on his mandibles...it's like someone pulling your lip and then it just hangs that way.

I hope the AvP:R Predator (or Predators) look more realistic like the Pred1 and Pred2 did.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 07:36 PM
I also totally agree with you about the suit, the P1 suit was MASSIVE if you watch the special features of P1 youll be amazed by it. Imagine how much bigger and hotter the AVP suit must be. Also i agree with Predator expressions in AVP as being TOTAL CRAP. They didnt look nearly as vicious at P2 and P1

Okay, I know I seem to get into this argument on a daily basis, but all that design had a purpose. The Predators in AVP were Initiates. They were there for their Rite of Passage/ first big hunt. While they are "alien" by their very nature, I would imagine they still share similaries to other bi-pedal races, such as humans. Think of them as teenagers trying to prove themselves. Of course they are going to be cocky (I actually thought the chest bump/slap thing illustrated that well). The pyramid was suppose to be a controlled environment. They really didn't fear going in there ... until the humans screwed it up by hitting the "start" button before they reached their cannons. The film did a good job of punishing the predators for their arrogance (I still love the "Yeah, I am badass ... now let me pose here, even though the place is crawling with these f'kers" and the resounding chest stab from above by the alien). So, yeah, what many of you see as weaknesses I see as character development. Besides, I am sure it takes a few hunts before they learn the lessons of P1, P2, and presumably Wolf ... it takes more than an arsenal to take down aliens ... you have to be a warrior born.

Don't get me wrong, I still cringe at some of the pacing problems (i.e. the accelerated alien birth cycle, the haphazard movement patterns of the pyramid, etc). However, I remember reading an interview with Anderson a while back where he explained how the studio had gutted a lot of his intended continuity with the budget cut and PG-13 mandate. I won't go into it all, but here's an example - Anderson had planned to shoot a scene with the alien queen activator to show the viewer that the machine artificially sped up the growth cycle of the Aliens to create a better testing environment. But FOX cut the budget and refused to push back the release, so he had to go with what he had. All in all, Anderson gets crucified for AvP, when it really wasn't all his fault. I agree it wasn't up to the standards of it's fore bearers. However, I don't feel it was Anderson's fault.

screamingmetal
12-18-2007, 07:38 PM
And not to mention that bad rubber material they used on his mandibles...it's like someone pulling your lip and then it just hangs that way.

I hope the AvP:R Predator (or Predators) look more realistic like the Pred1 and Pred2 did.
That and the mandibles springing open so fast and wide made it look ridiculous.
I heard they used a different type of material for the Pred face, I think silicone this time instead of urethane rubber.

Back on topic, I'm still pissed at HT. Why couldn't they have given us that switchable mandible thing for the first P2 release, or every other Pred release for the matter? That would've made me content with the first version at least.

Jamal
12-18-2007, 07:42 PM
Okay, I know I seem to get into this argument on a daily basis, but all that design had a purpose. The Predators in AVP were Initiates. They were there for their Rite of Passage/ first big hunt. While they are "alien" by their very nature, I would imagine they still share similaries to other bi-pedal races, such as humans. Think of them as teenagers trying to prove themselves. Of course they are going to be cocky (I actually thought the chest bump/slap thing illustrated that well). The pyramid was suppose to be a controlled environment. They really didn't fear going in there ... until the humans screwed it up by hitting the "start" button before they reached their cannons. The film did a good job of punishing the predators for their arrogance (I still love the "Yeah, I am badass ... now let me pose here, even though the place is crawling with these f'kers" and the resounding chest stab from above by the alien). So, yeah, what many of you see as weaknesses I see as character development. Besides, I am sure it takes a few hunts before they learn the lessons of P1, P2, and presumably Wolf ... it takes more than an arsenal to take down aliens ... you have to be a warrior born.

Don't get me wrong, I still cringe at some of the pacing problems (i.e. the accelerated alien birth cycle, the haphazard movement patterns of the pyramid, etc). However, I remember reading an interview with Anderson a while back where he explained how the studio had gutted a lot of his intended continuity with the budget cut and PG-13 mandate. I won't go into it all, but here's an example - Anderson had planned to shoot a scene with the alien queen activator to show the viewer that the machine artificially sped up the growth cycle of the Aliens to create a better testing environment. But FOX cut the budget and refused to push back the release, so he had to go with what he had. All in all, Anderson gets crucified for AvP, when it really wasn't all his fault. I agree it wasn't up to the standards of it's fore bearers. However, I don't feel it was Anderson's fault.

Having read all this i think Paul Anderson begs to differ about his Predators experience in hunting, he states himself on the special features disc that "my Predators are older and wiser than that of P1 and P2, those 2 Predators were let loose on earth like children to play with human prey whereas my Predators were more seasoned hunters going after the Alien prey in the pyramid" i **** you not he said this on the special edition disc. Its not a quote but thats what he said in a nutshell

Bardoon
12-18-2007, 07:51 PM
Having read all this i think Paul Anderson begs to differ about his Predators experience in hunting, he states himself on the special features disc that "my Predators are older and wiser than that of P1 and P2, those 2 Predators were let loose on earth like children to play with human prey whereas my Predators were more seasoned hunters going after the Alien prey in the pyramid" i **** you not he said this on the special edition disc. Its not a quote but thats what he said in a nutshell

Wow...then Anderson is really a flippin' moron to say one thing in an interview and then have his film say completely the opposite.

I remember reading all the stuff prior to AvP about how the Predators were "young, unblooded" hunters. The whole Predator caste system, the blooded,unblooded,bad blood,etc. status system was something brought up by the Predator novels and comic books.

Anyways, anyone think Sideshow will have the battle-damage Predator 2 for pre-order this week?

Jamal
12-18-2007, 07:54 PM
Im gonna go through the disc again and see how he said it exactly and post it up

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 08:00 PM
Having read all this i think Paul Anderson begs to differ about his Predators experience in hunting, he states himself on the special features disc that "my Predators are older and wiser than that of P1 and P2, those 2 Predators were let loose on earth like children to play with human prey whereas my Predators were more seasoned hunters going after the Alien prey in the pyramid" i **** you not he said this on the special edition disc. Its not a quote but thats what he said in a nutshell

I will take your word on that part. After I found out how little gore/R material was being added into the "non-rated" version, I skipped that double dip. And, if that's true, then either A.) Anderson is trying to rationalize/ i.e. sell what he put on the screen or B.) well, not really a B, unless he's delusional. Because, I can't see an experienced Predator running around with all those toys. Hell, all the Elders they have shown us were minimally armed. If those Predators were that experienced and well trained, A.) why would they need to come to some offworld theme park hunt for kicks and B.) why would they need 4 foot swords in addition to their wrist blades? A true warrior (and I would imagine this, no matter the species) wins and, in that, is challenged by the hunt... not running around with the Terminator's armory strapped to his body. Plus, the flash back to the Predator in ancient times standing on top of the Pyramid makes no sense with that interpretation. But, I digress. I interpret it in my way. And, since no one ever says, "yes, these are elite predators" in the film, I will continue to believe what I see.

However, I still say that FOX ruined that movie, not Anderson.

screamingmetal
12-18-2007, 08:03 PM
Wow...then Anderson is really a flippin' moron to say one thing in an interview and then have his film say completely the opposite.

I remember reading all the stuff prior to AvP about how the Predators were "young, unblooded" hunters. The whole Predator caste system, the blooded,unblooded,bad blood,etc. status system was something brought up by the Predator novels and comic books.

Anyways, anyone think Sideshow will have the battle-damage Predator 2 for pre-order this week?

Yep, that's usually the way it goes, Sideshow releases a teaser image of a figure one week, and has the preorder the week following. Look for it in Thursday night's newsletter.

Praetorian380
12-18-2007, 08:17 PM
I will take your word on that part. After I found out how little gore/R material was being added into the "non-rated" version, I skipped that double dip. And, if that's true, then either A.) Anderson is trying to rationalize/ i.e. sell what he put on the screen or B.) well, not really a B, unless he's delusional. Because, I can't see an experienced Predator running around with all those toys. Hell, all the Elders they have shown us were minimally armed. If those Predators were that experienced and well trained, A.) why would they need to come to some offworld theme park hunt for kicks and B.) why would they need 4 foot swords in addition to their wrist blades? A true warrior (and I would imagine this, no matter the species) wins and, in that, is challenged by the hunt... not running around with the Terminator's armory strapped to his body. Plus, the flash back to the Predator in ancient times standing on top of the Pyramid makes no sense with that interpretation. But, I digress. I interpret it in my way. And, since no one ever says, "yes, these are elite predators" in the film, I will continue to believe what I see.

However, I still say that FOX ruined that movie, not Anderson.

Anderson ruined the movie - he wrote it and directed it - the script sucked - the story sucked, the casting sucked (except for Lance Henrickson who was killed off mind you), the acting sucked (except for Lance Henrickson), the timeline of events sucked, the cinematography sucked, and the creature concepts sucked. I hated that movie and that is hard for me to deal with because I am such a HUGE HUGE Predator/Alien fan. I had such high hopes for the series going in a new direction but unfortunately FOX went with a director who had done crap movies in the past and he continued that trend with AVP. I could sit here all day go off on all of the problems, minute by minute throughout the entire film, but I dont want to waist my breath.....and I do believe that it was a combined effort by FOX and Anderson screwing up this movie. FOX for hiring Anderson to script and direct and Anderson because he is just not a very good film maker.


Heres hoping the Strause brothers can rejuvenate these characters and give them the respect that they deserve and earned since the day they graced the minds of all sci fi fans long ago. I hope and pray that AVP2 is what it should be. A badass movie!!!

gdb
12-18-2007, 08:25 PM
Back on topic, I'm still pissed at HT. Why couldn't they have given us that switchable mandible thing for the first P2 release, or every other Pred release for the matter? That would've made me content with the first version at least.

I agree. Ideally I'd like them to have released one Predator with all the bells and whistles but no blood. Then an exclusive with green blood on his face and chest.

screamingmetal
12-18-2007, 08:43 PM
I agree. Ideally I'd like them to have released one Predator with all the bells and whistles but no blood. Then an exclusive with green blood on his face and chest.

I'm starting to think that the Battle Damaged P2 Sideshow exclusive version might have all the bells and whistles including the regular mask. It may still have the blood paint but I could live with that. I'd doubt Hot Toys would've released an alternative version with just blood painted on. Perhaps have him come with the missing arm and alien skull would've been enough.
I did notice that the BD Pred 2 doesn't come with King Willie's skull and spine. But truthfully, I'd rather have the Alien skull, especially since HT screwed up and made the spinal column and sacrum grossly underscaled. Besides, it's actually easy and cheap to find a replacment skull and spinal column in 1:6 scale.

Rob
12-18-2007, 09:09 PM
Actually, the skull/spine was Jerry Lambert's(Bill Paxton). ;)

As for Anderson's comment on the earlier Predators; he's a dumbass. He's also lied about how long the fight scenes were in interviews before the movie came out. Here's hoping a Predator comes to Earth and hunts him down for being a stupid, lying idiot.:lol

Besides, he's breaking continuity with AVP anyway, so I wouldn't take his word for granted.

@Praetorian380: Agreed! But I put blame on both Dumbass Anderson and 20th Century ******s since they've been screwing the Alien Franchise since A3, so it wouldn't surprise me they sabotaged AVP aswell.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 09:22 PM
Anderson ruined the movie - he wrote it and directed it - the script sucked - the story sucked, the casting sucked (except for Lance Henrickson who was killed off mind you), the acting sucked (except for Lance Henrickson), the timeline of events sucked, the cinematography sucked, and the creature concepts sucked. I hated that movie and that is hard for me to deal with because I am such a HUGE HUGE Predator/Alien fan. I had such high hopes for the series going in a new direction but unfortunately FOX went with a director who had done crap movies in the past and he continued that trend with AVP. I could sit here all day go off on all of the problems, minute by minute throughout the entire film, but I dont want to waist my breath.....and I do believe that it was a combined effort by FOX and Anderson screwing up this movie. FOX for hiring Anderson to script and direct and Anderson because he is just not a very good film maker.

Okay, please don't take this as a personal attack. It's aimed at a whole subset of people. Best way not to ramble is to hit it point by point:

1.)Anderson ruined the movie - he wrote it and directed it - the script sucked - the story sucked

Well, from all the information that has been released, can we all agree on 2 key factors - 1.) the studio forced Anderson to turn his R-rated movie into a PG-13 at the last minute and 2.) the studio cut his budget by around 33% at the end (in fact, from what I have read, the explosion at the end cost him 40% of the entire budget he finished with - when the script was in the planning, he had plenty more cash to play around with). So, you are going to blame the man despite all these factors? He wrote it, sure. But the suits CHANGED it over half way into the film. He directed it, but the SUITS forced him to cut massive amounts of R-rated material, then wouldn't give me any cash to fix the holes that left. But, no, it's his fault. Sorry, I don't agree with you, and I don't see the logic in that statement. Yes, I will agree the story had plot holes and problems. But, since that was a compromised version of his story, script, and directing, I don't get the logic in blaming him. Oh, I get your hate, but hate is never logical. He is the big name on front of something you thinks hurts a property you love, so you attack him. I get that.

2.) the casting sucked (except for Lance Henrickson who was killed off mind you), the acting sucked (except for Lance Henrickson), the timeline of events sucked, the cinematography sucked, and the creature concepts sucked. I hated that movie and that is hard for me to deal with because I am such a HUGE HUGE Predator/Alien fan.

I actually liked the cast. My only problem was the ever-present Hollywood need to fill scientists/ intellectual roles with models and GAP commercial refugees. However, I didn't have a problem with the acting. But, I know stuff like acting is a personal taste thing, so I will not argue with you there. I also agree the timeline sucked, but once again, that was due to the last minute changes and shift to a PG-13 film. The only point I will argue is the cinematography. Anderson used the same guy he used on the original RE and I think he brought a dynamic style to both films.

I really feel like most people who blindly hate this film do so out of some imaginary, self-inflicted sense of personal attack. Anderson and FOX did this to ME dammit. To quote the Star Wars PT haters, "Anderson rapped my childhood ... *sob* ". I too admit that the film wasn't anywhere near the original films. But it wasn't a horrible film. It was just average. But, that seems to be the personal insult to the haters. It wasn't suppose to be average. It was suppose to be amazing ... some fanboy wetdream. Same thing happened to Freddy vs. Jason. It was an entertaining film. However, it took so long to get out, and people's expectations were so high, it never had a chance.

However, I welcome any explanation and discussion of all you "suck" points. Maybe then you sentiment would make more sense to me.

P.S.

He's also lied about how long the fight scenes were in interviews before the movie came out.

The fights were the most cut elements of the purge to PG-13 - cutting down on the graphic violence. That's why they felt so clipped/jumpy. But that's Anderson's fault, since he should have know when he scripted them that FOX would force a PG-13 on him ... right :rolleyes:

AdamBombOi
12-18-2007, 09:31 PM
I'm not trying to start anything, but I had to put in my two cents about AvP.

Yes, Anderson did not do a great job.

Yes, things could have been better.

Yes, he could have used the Machiko/planet Ryushi story to make long time fans happy.

Yes, PG-13 ratings suck.

Yes, Fox sucked for not having him do a better job.

Yes the Predators were too big.

But, he did give nods to the comics.

It is possible that like our own world, that their race differs in size, coloring, and customs.

The crap he spewed on bonus scene's weren't in the actual movie, and really mean nothing.

The blooding and marking hadn't been established when Predator 1 came out. If Stephen Hopkins had looked over the comics that were released ONE year before Predator 2 came out, he could have included some marking on the creatures to make them appear 'older' and more 'experienced' and that'd have taken care of this crap now. Instead, he followed the comics Hopkins SHOULD have when he made his movie and included the blooding of Scar, and Scar blooding Lex, just like in the original comics Broken Tusk blooded Machiko.

But it's whatever, and no one can go back in time and change anything. I still watch, and LET myself enjoy AvP because aside from being into punk, it's the only thing I've continuously had an interest it. All I'm saying is, take his movie with a grain of salt, it's really REALLY not as bad as people make it out to be.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 09:39 PM
I'm not trying to start anything, but I had to put in my two cents about AvP.

Yes, Anderson did not do a great job.

Yes, things could have been better.

Yes, he could have used the Machiko/planet Ryushi story to make long time fans happy.

Yes, PG-13 ratings suck.

Yes, Fox sucked for not having him do a better job.

Yes the Predators were too big.

But, he did give nods to the comics.

It is possible that like our own world, that their race differs in size, coloring, and customs.

The crap he spewed on bonus scene's weren't in the actual movie, and really mean nothing.

The blooding and marking hadn't been established when Predator 1 came out. If Stephen Hopkins had looked over the comics that were released ONE year before Predator 2 came out, he could have included some marking on the creatures to make them appear 'older' and more 'experienced' and that'd have taken care of this crap now. Instead, he followed the comics Hopkins SHOULD have when he made his movie and included the blooding of Scar, and Scar blooding Lex, just like in the original comics Broken Tusk blooded Machiko.

But it's whatever, and no one can go back in time and change anything. I still watch, and LET myself enjoy AvP because aside from being into punk, it's the only thing I've continuously had an interest it. All I'm saying is, take his movie with a grain of salt, it's really REALLY not as bad as people make it out to be.

Well said. My opinion, exactly ... and it didn't take you 20 minutes to type. DOH! Word conservation is a wonderful thing ... when will I learn :D

Rob
12-18-2007, 09:40 PM
The fights were the most cut elements of the purge to PG-13 - cutting down on the graphic violence. That's why they felt so clipped/jumpy. But that's Anderson's fault, since he should have know when he scripted them that FOX would force a PG-13 on him ... right :rolleyes:Uh, yes it is. He surveyed the final editing process himself, the interview was taken 1 day before the movie was released, he shouldve told the truth that they weren't 8 minutes long(Celtic's battle wasn't even 4 minutes, and that including the ridiculous part where the Alien who impales Chopper, with an even more ridiculously long tail).

Second, it was ALWAYS PG-13. Even before he filmed it. He even admits he wrote the script with PG-13 in mind after told him they wanted it PG-13.

So yes, it partly is his and Fox's fault.

TOE
12-18-2007, 09:43 PM
I liked AvP.

I don't think the Preds were too big at all. It would be boring to have all Preds to look alike.

In addition, I think the changes he, Anderson, made on the weapons were creative. It's been a while since the previous Predator movie so maybe the Predator race upgraded their technology.

I'm looking forward in ordering this Pred and also the new AvP2

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 09:58 PM
Uh, yes it is. He surveyed the final editing process himself, the interview was taken 1 day before the movie was released, he shouldve told the truth that they weren't 8 minutes long(Celtic's battle wasn't even 4 minutes, and that including the ridiculous part where the Alien who impales Chopper, with an even more ridiculously long tail).

Second, it was ALWAYS PG-13. Even before he filmed it. He even admits he wrote the script with PG-13 in mind after told him they wanted it PG-13.

So yes, it partly is his and Fox's fault.

Not sure which interview you are talking about, so I don't feel comfortable arguing that point. However, I am going to have to call you on Shenanigans on that "always PG-13" talk. Provide me one link or piece of evidence that proves that. Because, if you look at Anderson's previous Sci-Fi/ Horror films (Event Horizon and RE), it's obvious the man loves his blood and gore. Same BS popped up right around the time Live Free or Die Hard was announced as a PG-13. "No, it was always intended as a PG-13 film." Sure, that's why the uncut film is so wonderfully bloody and profane. Don't believe the hype Rob.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 10:01 PM
I liked AvP.

I don't think the Preds were too big at all. It would be boring to have all Preds to look alike.

In addition, I think the changes he, Anderson, made on the weapons were creative. It's been a while since the previous Predator movie so maybe the Predator race upgraded their technology.

I'm looking forward in ordering this Pred and also the new AvP2


Okay, this is the part that always confused me. Was AVP set before or after P1 and P2? I always assumed it was before.

TOE
12-18-2007, 10:04 PM
Okay, this is the part that always confused me. Was AVP set before or after P1 and P2? I always assumed it was before.

I would assume after P1 and P2 because the technology that the humans were utilizing were far more advance compared to what the humans were using for P1 and P2.

screamingmetal
12-18-2007, 10:06 PM
Anderson was the one that contributed that Chariots of the Gods B.S. to the Pred and Alien universe. Just for that he deserves a good swift kick in the nuts sufficient enough to sterilize him.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 10:09 PM
I would assume after P1 and P2 because the technology that the humans were utilizing were far more advance compared to what the humans were using for P1 and P2.

Yes, but there wasn't that much tech at all in P1 (it was the jungle after all) and the environment for P2 was a rundown city inhabited by drug-dealers and a rundown police force. Can't really compare that to the resources of a billionaire. However, it could have happened after. I guess there's no way to tell for sure.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 10:15 PM
Anderson was the one that contributed that Chariots of the Gods B.S. to the Pred and Alien universe. Just for that he deserves a good swift kick in the nuts sufficient enough to sterilize him.

Personal Quote from Anderson on IMDB: "If you work with a subject matter beloved by a hardcore fan base, then there's going to be a huge amount of discussion of what you've got wrong or right. In some ways you can never please overly obsessive fans, it's just impossible."

Woah, he knows us better than we think ... lol :D

Say what you want about the man and his directing. But any man who gets to bang Milla on a daily basis deserves our respect ... :monkey3

Rob
12-18-2007, 10:27 PM
Not sure which interview you are talking about, so I don't feel comfortable arguing that point. However, I am going to have to call you on Shenanigans on that "always PG-13" talk. Provide me one link or piece of evidence that proves that. Because, if you look at Anderson's previous Sci-Fi/ Horror films (Event Horizon and RE), it's obvious the man loves his blood and gore. Same BS popped up right around the time Live Free or Die Hard was announced as a PG-13. "No, it was always intended as a PG-13 film." Sure, that's why the uncut film is so wonderfully bloody and profane. Don't believe the hype Rob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3hedznQnA
"There was never a different cut of the movie, other than the cut we released, and I think a lot of the reports are fake and made up. I think with a movie like this there's always going to be huge amount of kind of like, fan speculation." -Paul Anderson from link above

First of all, if their was an R-rated cut, he wouldve said so, and chances are, it wouldve been released by now, instead of us getting them same old crap with some useless extra scenes and fake looking CGI blood.

DouglasMcc
12-18-2007, 11:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3hedznQnA
"There was never a different cut of the movie, other than the cut we released, and I think a lot of the reports are fake and made up. I think with a movie like this there's always going to be huge amount of kind of like, fan speculation." -Paul Anderson from link above

First of all, if their was an R-rated cut, he wouldve said so, and chances are, it wouldve been released by now, instead of us getting them same old crap with some useless extra scenes and fake looking CGI blood.

I am sure you will just toss my opinion into the "conspiracy" bin, but look at that copyright date at the end - 2004. That was a fluff piece distributed by FOX themselves to SALE the movie (and eventual DVD). So, knowing that his next job is going to be based upon this films performance at the box office/ DVD sales, do you really think the man is going to come out and say, "yeah, they butchered my film, forced a PG-13 down my throat, but um ... please go see my film." It may be dishonest, but he's not sitting there trying to be your friend. He's trying to sell you a movie.

Examples: Night after Transformers is announced as HD-DVD only - Micheal Bay posts to his site, "This is crap. It should be available to all HD sources. I am seriously thinking of dropping out of the sequel because of this stupid move." Next day, presumably after Dreamworks lawyers called and yelled at him: "HD-DVD is a great format, perhaps I was hasty before. I would love to direct a sequel."

On Ain't It Cool News, after learning the film was being cut to get a PG-13, Willis' responses concerning the change were obviously angry and defiant. A few days later? "Well, the cuts really don't affect the action that much, blah, blah, blah."

Why all these reversals? Because Box Office/ DVD sales are still king in Hollywood.

I remember all the pre-release materials before the film was released. I followed it intently from the day it was announce to opening day when I was standing in line. And there is NO F'KING way the things I read and the script elements that got out there were PG-13 focused. Believe me or not, I know how I feel.

P.S. Technically, he was telling the truth. People claimed FOX edited the film without his permission. Well, if FOX came in and made him make the changes, then there would only be one cut of the film. If he was never given the money to complete those graphic scenes at the end, then there wouldn't be an R-rated cut to release (unless FOX ponied up the cash to complete the FX, and AVP wasn't a big enough success to warrant that).

I know this belief is based upon hearsay and speculation. I am willing to admit that. But, if you look at his decidedly R-rated Horror films done before AVP, and you look at the descriptions and pre-filming script/ designs released during production, it's obvious this wasn't always a PG-13 film.

P.S.S. So, you are angry at him and call him a liar when he claims the fights are 8 minutes long in another interview. Yet, you trust him emphatically when he states something that lends credence to your theory in a FOX fluff piece. No offense, but that's a little hypocritical.

Rob
12-18-2007, 11:11 PM
No offense, but I trust the director's word(Not on the fight scenes part, but on the movie cut itself) on the cut of the movie than your conspiracy theory . Second, so what if the interview was back in '04? You have no credibility making the claim that Fox made him say this or that besides, as Anderson himself put it, 'fan speculation'.

Second, I trust him on the cut of movie because IT'S THE ONLY CUT THAT'S BEEN RELEASED MULTIPLE TIMES! If their was an R-Rated cut, then believe you me, we would have seen it. Instead, we're stuck with the piece of crap that is the final and ONLY cut. Second of all, it doesn't mean a damn thing that the films he made before AVP were filled with gore. Fox is very, and I mean VERY controlling of their movies. Hell, back when Dave Fincher was directing Alien3, he couldn't take a crap without the studio or producers bothering him about something or another. It doesn't surprise me that they would have him make a PG-13 movie for the sake of attracting a wider audience which means more $$$.

And yes, as I said before, I partly blame Fox for making AVP PG-13 and most of the other things that have happened.

I respect your views, Doug, but in this case, all you got is some speculation and not enough proof, whereas I have already cited a specific example. And since Anderson has not spoken out and then been silenced into submission like Michael Bay and Bruce Willis, I assume he was telling the truth.

AdamBombOi
12-18-2007, 11:16 PM
I would assume after P1 and P2 because the technology that the humans were utilizing were far more advance compared to what the humans were using for P1 and P2.

P1 was set in 1987
P2 was set in 1997

AvP was set in 2004
And AvP:R is supposed to be set right after AvP, still in 2004.

creecher
12-18-2007, 11:32 PM
I like your style DouglasMcC. Your dialogue is clear and succinct. It has been really enjoyable reading your posts. The rebuttles also.

I am no buff. I liked the AvP film for what it was, a piece of entertainment. I was entertained. I could follow the story line and I enjoyed the visuals. I know that their is an opinion that the film sucked, but it doesn't wash with me. I liked it. I'm bored by the behind the scenes to and fro about direction, Fox and shift of rating, what the suit was made out of and who was in that suit. I don't wish to buy into any of that. Real blood or CGI blood, is all blood to me. Sure I reckon they could have turned it up a notch, but what about the younguns? I don't have a clue about the Pred comics either, but being comics, sounds to me that they are directed at the young. So why not a Pred/Alien film that they could go along and see. They are the Hot Toys collectors of tomorrow. It's all turned out okay hasn't it? We're getting the R rated AvP-R aren't we? What's the problem?

I know I said I was bored, but thanks for cluing me in to the backdrop to all this. In any event we got some kickass figures out of it.

Rob
12-18-2007, 11:44 PM
@Creecher: What about the kids? Both Alien and Predator are adult-oriented franchises, the last thing you do is market it to a younger crowd. Hell, they tried that with Robocop 3 and look what happened.

No offense, but it's like taking Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees and putting them in a Barny the Dinosaur movie. Would you market them to a younger crowd? Hell no! So why market both Aliens and Predators to kids, when both have been shown to do violent acts just like Krueger and Voorhees?:confused:

That and the characters were unrelatable and rather forgettable, whereas both franchises gave us character we liked, could relate to and care about.

AdamBombOi
12-18-2007, 11:45 PM
I don't have a clue about the Pred comics either, but being comics, sounds to me that they are directed at the young.


No no no no no! I got into them at a young age because a friend of mine's father was a comic collector and I happened to see them one day at his house with a crappy babysitter while his parents were out, and my interest really sparked.

I was lucky to have parents that wouldn't try to sugar coat things for me, I was allowed to buy them. Lucky too, because some of these comics contain nudity, cursing, and very violent imagery; people getting decapitated, ripped in half, blown apart... some of them are down right BRUTAL.

If Fox decided to do anything else with the Predator franchise, I would LOVE a CG Animated direct to DVD movie, if anyone has ever seen scenes from the video game Concrete Jungle, they're breath taking. (Note: search for the cut scenes on youtube, they are there too).

creecher
12-18-2007, 11:56 PM
I guess kids don't know about sex either, or drink booze. These are just films for entertainment. I was watching horror films when I was 7 or 8, and I loved them. I'm not talking little preppies and cartoon dinosaurs. Admittedly when I was young rampant gore wasn't prevalent. When I was young there weren't DvD's either, and what kid isn't going to watch an R rated DvD when the parents are out. You may be able to restrict some from entering the theatre, but get real. Hollywood is going to market to whomever they think will relinquish the most bucks, regardless of those who might wish for continuity etc etc. If they think kids are a market for these kind of villains, that they wouldn't create an uproar from parents, they would. I never heard there was a mass ruckus caused by AvP being directed at a younger audience before.

AdamBombOi
12-19-2007, 12:03 AM
I guess kids don't know about sex either, or drink booze. These are just films for entertainment. I was watching horror films when I was 7 or 8, and I loved them. I'm not talking little preppies and cartoon dinosaurs. Admittedly when I was young rampant gore wasn't prevalent. When I was young there weren't DvD's either, and what kid isn't going to watch an R rated DvD when the parents are out. You may be able to restrict some from entering the theatre, but get real. Hollywood is going to market to whomever they think will relinquish the most bucks, regardless of those who might wish for continuity etc etc. If they think kids are a market for these kind of villains, that they would create an uproar from parents, they would. I never heard there was a mass ruckus caused by AvP being directed at a younger audience before.

Brother, I help raise my four year old niece because she needs a father figure in her life - my brother ain't there for her except when it's convenient. You can bet I don't let her watch R rated movies, hell Underdog scared her for Christ sake.

Unlike the majority of crappy parents in this country, my parents were great in raising me, and my family has been great in dealing with my niece as well. AvP in the early years was targeted at an ADULT audience, hell, both Predator and Aliens were directed at adults, because lord knows I've never seen these films on Nickelodeon. Teens, yeah, I can see them watching it. But you said kids.

If you gonna allow your kids to read stuff with this in them:
http://i5.tinypic.com/878aadt.jpg

Than more power to you, just do your duty as an adult and a parental figure and explain to them what is right and wrong. America is already desensitized enough with sex and violence, and as near and dear to my heart as the Predator franchise is, I'd burn everything I own bearing that name on it if they started trying to make their target audience children.

...and I don't consider Predators to be villains, I see them as anti-heroes, you know they're big and mean and kill people... but they have a culture behind it, it's what they know, they have honor codes, they only hunt what is worthy.

creecher
12-19-2007, 12:17 AM
The fact is they aren't targeting pre-teens, so the point is mute. Violence is a part of life. De-sensitising, sensitising, burning, it's all a little over reactive. What needs to be taught is the correct place for these things. I wouldn't be too surprised to find that children wouldn't know the steak they eat comes from the behind the scenes butchering of a cow. Can't tell them that. Oh no.

I'm sorry that I derailed the thread somewhat. Ignore me and go on about the Battle damaged Predator. I'm wanting to get this version. I love innovative figures. Maybe I should wait for the P1. Hoping they'll use the swappable mouth on that one as well.

I think yet another variant, the Sideshow version having the mask, has killed it for me, shipping from the states being what it is, unless I can score one from ebay, I'm going to wait for the P1.

DouglasMcc
12-19-2007, 12:45 AM
@Creecher: What about the kids? Both Alien and Predator are adult-oriented franchises, the last thing you do is market it to a younger crowd. Hell, they tried that with Robocop 3 and look what happened.

No offense, but it's like taking Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees and putting them in a Barny the Dinosaur movie. Would you market them to a younger crowd? Hell no! So why market both Aliens and Predators to kids, when both have been shown to do violent acts just like Krueger and Voorhees?:confused:

That and the characters were unrelatable and rather forgettable, whereas both franchises gave us character we liked, could relate to and care about.

Actually, Kenner and FOX were marketing Aliens and Predators to kids in the late 80's/early 90's - even back when the films were rated R. "Go ahead little Johnny, play with Lt. Ripley ... NO! You can't watch daddies VHS of Aliens!"

But, lets be honest here ... the invention of the PG-13 rating was an offshoot of this marketing blitz. The studios wanted to be able to market a film to both children and adults, to maximize profits. Unfortunately, very few people, outside of the comedy genre have managed to merge the 2 well.

http://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/Toys/AliensFigures.html

gdb
12-19-2007, 01:16 AM
But, lets be honest here ... the invention of the PG-13 rating was an offshoot of this marketing blitz. The studios wanted to be able to market a film to both children and adults, to maximize profits. Unfortunately, very few people, outside of the comedy genre have managed to merge the 2 well.

http://www.toyarchive.com/Aliens/Toys/AliensFigures.html

Actually, if I remember correctly, PG-13 came out of the controversy from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. The powers that be decided that while the film was not an R, pulling out a still beating human heart was not something every 9 year-old would want to see. So for films like Revenge of the Sith and Batman Begins, we have PG-13.

Jamal
12-19-2007, 01:23 AM
I love how this has turned out, Debates and Rebuttles at a mature rate with clear concise dialogue i love it!! this doesnt happen on many forums trust me.
Im gonna try and find his quote about the Preds, i cant remember if it was the directors commentary or the making of but im gonna scan them and find it

EDIT - Ive heard him quote once now " Predators are dropped on earth as teenagers to prove themselves as worthy hunters"

BINGO!!! 1 Hour into the directors commentary "The Predators hunting Danny Glover and Arnie are not even teenagers, they are like little children being allowed to go play on earth because clealry its easier to kill Danny or Arnie than it is to kill an Alien only when youve killed enough humans and gathered enough skulls you can step up and take part in this hunting ritual and take your hunting to the next level

OH MY GOD IS THIS GUY SMOKING FRIGGEN CRACK??? I KNEW I HEARD IT, because of his twisted logic about teenagers and hunting rituals blah blah hes saying that the earlier Preds were younger than his goof ball Predators, how could he make this statement when the whole teenage thing is just a concoction

OK another contradiction "Charles W. Bishop is the Bill Gates of the AVP World, its like Microsoft building robots of bill gates in the future and AVP is set 150 years before the other Alien movies" "Because Weyland in Aliens and Alien3 was an andrioid.How can this be when Bishop dies in AVP and was clearly human in Alien 3 with what is seen as red blood flowing from his wound in the Assembly cut of Alien3 he clearly yells "IM NOT A DRIOD"and Lance has stated already that he was indeed human in Alien3 previously.


"We've made the Creatures look better than ever before" LOL...

drunk_leprechaun
12-19-2007, 02:40 AM
I've was going to preordering this .. but after giving it some thought last night I'm going to pass, as much as I want that headsculpt:monkey2. I'm hoping we get some of the lost hunters ( boar preds especially:monkey5) . Knowing hot toys , im sure theyll make complete use of the predator lisences.

Jamal
12-19-2007, 02:41 AM
For the guys in the discussion please read my post

Rob
12-19-2007, 03:54 AM
About the first two Predators;

To Anderson; "The Predators hunting Danny Glover and Arnie are not even teenagers, they are like little children being allowed to go play on earth because clealry its easier to kill Danny or Arnie than it is to kill an Alien only when youve killed enough humans and gathered enough skulls you can step up and take part in this hunting ritual and take your hunting to the next level

One problem, genius; the Alien skull belonged to the main Pred in the second film! Again, contradicting continuity. And the one in P1 was confirmed to be an older Predator LONG before your crap movie came out. Again, contradicting continuity.

"We've made the creatures look better than ever before"

Really? Then why do I see the turd-esque Resurrection Aliens running around instead of Giger's masterpiece? Why do I see Predators looking like oversized football players, with long, girly-man dreadlocks, fake looking banana-finger hands and faces that look like ****? Why do I see ridiculously long wristblades, big, clunky arm blades and oversized plasmacasters or crappy combi-sticks that look like they break if you even look at them wrong? Seems like you opted ol' 'bigger is better' adage, which in this case, sure as hell doesn't work, and didn't put forth any creativity whatsoever(Besides the Predator masks).

"Because Weyland in Aliens and Alien3 was an android."
*Sigh* Contradicting continuity yet again? Tell me, were you born a dumbass or did you just turn into one? First of all, yes, Bishop in ALIENS was an Android, BUT, the Bishop at the end of Alien3 was confirmed human LONG before your crappy excuse of a movie came out. Henrikson himself confirms it in the BTS on the 2nd Disc and the movie itself even shows he's not an android(IE; Red blood, where as androids have some sort of white liquid, and him shouting "I'm not a droid!" aswell as him being in pain after having his ear almost torn off, whereas an android, wouldn't feel pain).

Jamal
12-19-2007, 04:07 AM
I hope you like that info i had to sit through the god awful making for 30 mins and i had to listen to Anderson for 1 ****ing hour also through the directors commentary to dig that up man lol, ill never get the hour and a half back..

darren1228
12-19-2007, 04:22 AM
Note to future directors of the AvP franchise: There is no rule stating that you must connect the storyline of all three franchises. Please keep them separate for our and your own sake. :D

Stendec
12-19-2007, 05:47 AM
I love how this has turned out, Debates and Rebuttles at a mature rate with clear concise dialogue i love it!! this doesnt happen on many forums trust me.
Im gonna try and find his quote about the Preds, i cant remember if it was the directors commentary or the making of but im gonna scan them and find it

EDIT - Ive heard him quote once now " Predators are dropped on earth as teenagers to prove themselves as worthy hunters"

BINGO!!! 1 Hour into the directors commentary "The Predators hunting Danny Glover and Arnie are not even teenagers, they are like little children being allowed to go play on earth because clealry its easier to kill Danny or Arnie than it is to kill an Alien only when youve killed enough humans and gathered enough skulls you can step up and take part in this hunting ritual and take your hunting to the next level

OH MY GOD IS THIS GUY SMOKING FRIGGEN CRACK??? I KNEW I HEARD IT, because of his twisted logic about teenagers and hunting rituals blah blah hes saying that the earlier Preds were younger than his goof ball Predators, how could he make this statement when the whole teenage thing is just a concoction

OK another contradiction "Charles W. Bishop is the Bill Gates of the AVP World, its like Microsoft building robots of bill gates in the future and AVP is set 150 years before the other Alien movies" "Because Weyland in Aliens and Alien3 was an andrioid.How can this be when Bishop dies in AVP and was clearly human in Alien 3 with what is seen as red blood flowing from his wound in the Assembly cut of Alien3 he clearly yells "IM NOT A DRIOD"and Lance has stated already that he was indeed human in Alien3 previously.


"We've made the Creatures look better than ever before" LOL...

Nice excerpts there Jamal. Yeah, AVP failed on so many levels it beggers belief. It was a neat idea to introduce the Company as it would have existed in its formative years in the 21st Century. However, the Charles Bishop Weyland character and having Henrikson potray him was a terrible mistake. I thought Henrikson would have realised this and cared enough about Bishop and the franchise to refuse. I guess he just saw it as another gig, but the guy has bills to pay I guess.

Jamal
12-19-2007, 06:12 AM
The guy is one big HACK man he really thinks like AVP is something special man, sittng through his commentary was EXCITING

IrishJedi
12-19-2007, 06:17 AM
Say what you want about the man and his directing. But any man who gets to bang Milla on a daily basis deserves our respect ... :monkey3

Speak for yourself. IMHO, she's not terribly attractive. Plus, she has the body of a 12 year old boy... and personally that does nothing for me.

:monkey1

That said, Anderson is a total and complete hack and it takes guts sticking up for him, so I commend you on that. :duff

wookster
12-19-2007, 06:21 AM
Speak for yourself. IMHO, she's not terribly attractive. Plus, she has the body of a 12 year old boy... and personally that does nothing for me.

:monkey1

That said, Anderson is a total and complete hack and it takes guts sticking up for him, so I commend you on that. :duff

12 year old boy?
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2007/10/16-22/milla_preggo.jpg

IrishJedi
12-19-2007, 06:38 AM
Okay, so now she has the body of a 12 year old boy with a bean bag pillow stuffed in his shirt. :monkey3

Blackhole
12-19-2007, 07:18 AM
Maybe it's a chestburster waiting to emerge...

I like the armoured preds...

Though I did see one poster with specs on both Aliens and Predators...

According to that, Aliens are 6 foot 6 inches tall...

And Preds are a whole foot taller than that...

And the Predalien is meant to be about 9 foot from estimates...

AND THAT QUEEN...

ragacin
12-19-2007, 07:26 AM
Anderson was the one that contributed that Chariots of the Gods B.S. to the Pred and Alien universe. Just for that he deserves a good swift kick in the nuts sufficient enough to sterilize him.

Do you mean the "Preds brought us Technology" part, or the "Antartica has the lost civilization" part? If the latter, it is not BS. Not provable yet, but there has been a lot of academic work and theorizing about Antartica being positioned differently and having a lost civilization akin to Atlantis. There is evidence of another lost civilization in Asia also.

But if you mean the former, yes, BS. That sort of implication really demeans what we have accomplished as humans by ourselves.

I liked AVP for what it was and that is the way we as the audience have to take films. We have to judge by what IS presented, not what we WANTED the film to be. If we all got the film we wanted, I think there would be hundreds of versions of the AVP film, running the gamut from Preds carrying teddy bears to a bloodfest that would make Manson blush. That goes with ANY film series. Hell MY version of the SW prequels would have been hella different than what we got. But then again, George didn't ask me :). As to the Bishop in Alien3, not necessarily a contradiction. Perhaps the AVP Weyland had children? And the A3 was his decendant? I am reaching I know...

As far as the BD P2, I will get one and part him out, keeping the bits I want :)

abake
12-19-2007, 08:46 AM
Speak for yourself. IMHO, she's not terribly attractive. Plus, she has the body of a 12 year old boy... and personally that does nothing for me.

:monkey1

That said, Anderson is a total and complete hack and it takes guts sticking up for him, so I commend you on that. :duff

Dude, if that's what 12 year old boys look like, I've just found out I'm a pervert! :rotfl:rotfl

Here ya go Milla fans!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla-jovovich-preg.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla3.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla-jovovich-0602-020.jpg
:D

wookster
12-19-2007, 09:54 AM
Dude, if that's what 12 year old boys look like, I've just found out I'm a pervert! :rotfl:rotfl

Here ya go Milla fans!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla-jovovich-preg.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla3.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla-jovovich-0602-020.jpg
:D
It's Millatime at the bar!

IrishJedi
12-19-2007, 10:08 AM
Meh. She's needs boobs, curves and a new face then we'll talk.

(Just my 2 cents. Don't shoot me, Milla fans :monkey3)

metaphorge
12-19-2007, 11:01 AM
Oookay, after seeing these pics and that Alien skull, I think I might have to get this bastard after all. I thought it was kinda pointless at first, but those accessories are AWESOME!! :rock
Same boat. Drat drat drat.

IrishJedi
12-19-2007, 11:53 AM
Same boat. Drat drat drat.

Me too. I will order this one for sure. :rock

Jamal
12-19-2007, 01:40 PM
Too skinny for me fellas

PROWL
12-19-2007, 01:45 PM
[QUOTE=ragacin;664698]Do you mean the "Preds brought us Technology" part, or the "Antartica has the lost civilization" part? If the latter, it is not BS. Not provable yet, but there has been a lot of academic work and theorizing about Antartica being positioned differently and having a lost civilization akin to Atlantis. There is evidence of another lost civilization in Asia also.

But if you mean the former, yes, BS. That sort of implication really demeans what we have accomplished as humans by ourselves.

QUOTE]

I'm gessing from your confusen that that you haven't heared of Chariots of the Gods before, but yes it puts forth the theory that an alien civlization infuenced on human kind.

the idea has become a main stay in Sci-fi.

Beast wars, stargate, Halo are key examples of Chariots of the Gods infuence.

BadMoon
12-19-2007, 01:52 PM
Dude, if that's what 12 year old boys look like, I've just found out I'm a pervert! :rotfl:rotfl

Here ya go Milla fans!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla-jovovich-preg.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla3.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s178/abake_2007/varios/milla-jovovich-0602-020.jpg
:D


She needs a couple dozen cheese burgers IMO. :lol

Bardoon
12-19-2007, 03:08 PM
Meh. She's needs boobs, curves and a new face then we'll talk.

(Just my 2 cents. Don't shoot me, Milla fans :monkey3)

Well...because of her pregnancy she probably has some tig ol' bitties now! :chew

DouglasMcc
12-19-2007, 03:17 PM
I hope you like that info i had to sit through the god awful making for 30 mins and i had to listen to Anderson for 1 ****ing hour also through the directors commentary to dig that up man lol, ill never get the hour and a half back..

Okay, I will freely admit that those responses completely invalidate other things he has said in the past. Not sure why he would flip-flop so much, but I will take your word on the commentary.
However, I really don't care what he said. I won't let his flip-flopping affect the way I interpret the films. No where does it say in P1 or P2 that those guys were "kids" running around. No where in AVP does it state those Preds are "elites"/older. So, I say ignore his comments. The logic of the comics caste system works with the film, even if he doesn't agree with it.

Like I said, AVP is not a great film. However, it is an enjoyable, if average film. I am hoping for greatness with AVPR, but we will have to see what we get.

abake
12-19-2007, 03:37 PM
Meh. She's needs boobs, curves and a new face then we'll talk.

(Just my 2 cents. Don't shoot me, Milla fans :monkey3)

Irish, at least we'll never have an argument over our women! :lol

lerath666
12-19-2007, 06:10 PM
I generaly like women who are a bit more filled out, but Milla is an exception. donno why, But she is hot. My fiencee also agre on that :monkey5

AdamBombOi
12-19-2007, 08:26 PM
***** Face here, he just doesn't like women who hang with dworfs. Time to get with the big man, not 7 little ones.

http://i10.tinypic.com/866v6yp.jpg

BadMoon
12-19-2007, 08:34 PM
No ass no boobs no service comes to mind. :lol :monkey3

Karma
12-19-2007, 09:32 PM
OK, your single and she propositions you, sorry but your lying your ass off if you say no to a piece of that tail :D:monkey5

Rob
12-19-2007, 09:44 PM
Eh, the first and thrid pictures of her are good, though she look way too skinny in the second picture.

usmcchet9296
12-19-2007, 09:55 PM
Id do Mila in a heart beat
but then again Im a perv :monkey5

Jamal
12-19-2007, 11:05 PM
Okay, I will freely admit that those responses completely invalidate other things he has said in the past. Not sure why he would flip-flop so much, but I will take your word on the commentary.
However, I really don't care what he said. I won't let his flip-flopping affect the way I interpret the films. No where does it say in P1 or P2 that those guys were "kids" running around. No where in AVP does it state those Preds are "elites"/older. So, I say ignore his comments. The logic of the comics caste system works with the film, even if he doesn't agree with it.

Like I said, AVP is not a great film. However, it is an enjoyable, if average film. I am hoping for greatness with AVPR, but we will have to see what we get.

I didnt go through the info to counter act what you said, i just wanted to show you all that he really does talk **** lol. No doubt AVPR will be better man

Blackhole
12-20-2007, 05:05 AM
Hey, Jamal...I just noticed the change in your sig...

Kickass line you got there...

As for Milla, give me her in that dress from Resident Evil...with those boots...

:drool:drool:drool

Jamal
12-20-2007, 05:22 AM
Lol thanks man, some dude from another forum stole my Green Predator sig i made and hes using it, im not happy to say the least

Stendec
12-20-2007, 06:01 AM
Id advise you incorporate your username into any signature you make, that should take care of the theft problem. Nice work on those sigs too, they look great.

ragacin
12-20-2007, 08:53 AM
Okay, I will freely admit that those responses completely invalidate other things he has said in the past. Not sure why he would flip-flop so much, but I will take your word on the commentary.
However, I really don't care what he said. I won't let his flip-flopping affect the way I interpret the films. No where does it say in P1 or P2 that those guys were "kids" running around. No where in AVP does it state those Preds are "elites"/older. So, I say ignore his comments. The logic of the comics caste system works with the film, even if he doesn't agree with it.

Like I said, AVP is not a great film. However, it is an enjoyable, if average film. I am hoping for greatness with AVPR, but we will have to see what we get.

In the "uncut" version Alexa says directly that the Preds are teenagers. One could assume that since part of the ritual was to get their plasma casters, that the P1 and P2 Preds are older, since they already have the guns.

AdamBombOi
12-20-2007, 09:35 AM
In the "uncut" version Alexa says directly that the Preds are teenagers. One could assume that since part of the ritual was to get their plasma casters, that the P1 and P2 Preds are older, since they already have the guns.

You could assume that, but I don't believe that to be the case.

The plasma casters they went for in AvP I think were strictly part of that hunt. It seemed like they were supposed to go to that room, get their guns, and as the last one is taken, it triggers the eggs to begin in the sacrificial chamber, and the process to begin.

I'd think since the guns were there in the beginning, if the hunt had gone right, they'd have left them there for the next group 100 years later.

Though, you could be onto something, like that they'd have to survive to earn their own gun. Who knows? I still feel like because of his weaponry, and his somewhat grizzled look, that the predator in P2 was the oldest thus far.

DouglasMcc
12-20-2007, 10:54 AM
You could assume that, but I don't believe that to be the case.

The plasma casters they went for in AvP I think were strictly part of that hunt. It seemed like they were supposed to go to that room, get their guns, and as the last one is taken, it triggers the eggs to begin in the sacrificial chamber, and the process to begin.

I'd think since the guns were there in the beginning, if the hunt had gone right, they'd have left them there for the next group 100 years later.

Though, you could be onto something, like that they'd have to survive to earn their own gun. Who knows? I still feel like because of his weaponry, and his somewhat grizzled look, that the predator in P2 was the oldest thus far.


True, most of our comments on the movies are speculation based on comic lore and other materials. But, I actually like that. I think too many directors and writers of Sci-Fi and Horror now-a-days feel the need to explain EVERYTHING in a film. A good artist creates something, then lets the patron interpret the art for themselves. That's what I love about the earlier Alien and Predator films (yeah, I know some wouldn't call those films art, but they are to me). The creature was just there and the hero had to deal with it .. no extrapolation or flashback to some earlier time. Because lets face it - everything in life doesn't always get explained to us. Life is about reacting to stimuli ... understanding the stimuli is secondary.
All this got me to thinking ... the DVD age has really hurt this aspect of movies. We used to get a movie and that was about it with VHS. Maybe a few deleted scenes but nothing else. Now that we get all these featurettes and commentaries, we are inundated in information. And, far too many directors on the commentaries want to tell us how to feel about or interpret the movie. Don't get me wrong, I love DVD features. It's just they are a double-edged sword.

I also always assumed they were there (teenagers) to earn their "manhood" which was symbolized by the guns. True, they may have put them back and received proper plasma cannons later. However, the test was to put them in the middle of hell and see if they could fight their way out with the guns - almost trophies in themselves. This aspect is very reminiscent of earlier man before he became sedentary and other later war-based societies (Spartans, etc.)

Blackhole
12-20-2007, 01:44 PM
There really hasn't been enough backstory to assume anything...

We need some comics explaining the backstory to this stuff...

Not some flashback in the middle of the film that ruined the whole concept of everything...

I do like the ancient predator though...there are two different figs of him...which one is the film accurate one? The asia one or the other one?

My Lord
12-20-2007, 01:52 PM
I do like the ancient predator though...there are two different figs of him...which one is the film accurate one? The asia one or the other one?

The Asia Exclusive is the more screen accurate one. Also if you want to get real picky, he does not come with a thermal detonator gauntlet.

screamingmetal
12-20-2007, 03:05 PM
Do you mean the "Preds brought us Technology" part, or the "Antartica has the lost civilization" part? If the latter, it is not BS. Not provable yet, but there has been a lot of academic work and theorizing about Antartica being positioned differently and having a lost civilization akin to Atlantis. There is evidence of another lost civilization in Asia also.

But if you mean the former, yes, BS. That sort of implication really demeans what we have accomplished as humans by ourselves.

I liked AVP for what it was and that is the way we as the audience have to take films. We have to judge by what IS presented, not what we WANTED the film to be. If we all got the film we wanted, I think there would be hundreds of versions of the AVP film, running the gamut from Preds carrying teddy bears to a bloodfest that would make Manson blush. That goes with ANY film series. Hell MY version of the SW prequels would have been hella different than what we got. But then again, George didn't ask me :). As to the Bishop in Alien3, not necessarily a contradiction. Perhaps the AVP Weyland had children? And the A3 was his decendant? I am reaching I know...

As far as the BD P2, I will get one and part him out, keeping the bits I want :)

The Chariots of the Gods thing is the theory that aliens came down and assisted man in building early societies and creating religions. More specifically building or giving the knowledge to build the pyramids in Egypt, Cambodia, and Central and South America.
It's just an over used Sci-Fi concept that is completely unoriginal. I could tolerate it in Stargate but I don't want hack Science Fiction mixed into my favorite Predator or Alien universes. And I dislike the concept mostly because it does diminish human achievement and is based on very little scientific evidence.

Bardoon
12-20-2007, 07:37 PM
BOTH Battle-Damage Preds are up for pre-order.

The regular edition and the Sideshow Exclusive edition which feature the regular bio-mask with a chunk cut out of it!!!

ORDERED BOTH! :rock

REGULAR:
https://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=63381

SIDESHOW EXCLUSIVE:
https://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=63382&source=upsell

lerath666
12-20-2007, 07:42 PM
I m only gonn get the exclusive. ordered it, ready to go :rock

King Darkness
12-20-2007, 07:44 PM
The Sideshow exclusive still comes with the breathing mask right? It doesnt have a full listing of what the SS exc. comes with. I assume it will come with everything the regular does?

Rob
12-20-2007, 08:03 PM
That 'battle-damaged' mask isn't accurate. In the movie, the mask doesn't get scratched or dented, not even when Harrigan hit's it with bullets from his M16.

Thanks, but I'll stick with my regular P2 Predator.

galactiboy
12-20-2007, 08:03 PM
Love the damaged mask... very cool accessory! Still, I'm just gonna stick with the first version.

Jamal
12-20-2007, 08:18 PM
Breathing Apparatus > Bio Helmet anyday!

The head sculpt and arm etc is why im after it, itll look sweet with his bloodied arm and holding the breathing apparatus in the other hand

Buttmunch
12-20-2007, 08:24 PM
The exclusive should be identical to the regular, just that it comes with the additional mask like any other Sideshow exclusive right? Too steep for my blood, but Severed anythings are always cool. :D

bagelsncheesey
12-20-2007, 08:24 PM
The battle damaged mask is just an exclusive accessory, who cares if it's movie accurate or not. It's something fun.

And yes, the Exc. comes with everything that the regular does.

The Mike
12-20-2007, 08:33 PM
The mask itself will be peacemeal'd out on eBay once its released....really no hair off a collector's head. I wanted to add this to my collection but with the 3 PF onslaught of tonight's newsletter I passed. I'll just look forward to Wolf

Jamal
12-20-2007, 09:10 PM
Its good for people like me who only collect Alien/Pred stuff

gdb
12-20-2007, 09:32 PM
I'm so confused...

SIDESHOW EXCLUSIVE EDITION
The Sideshow Exclusive version of the Battle Damaged Predator 2 model kit includes an additional accessory - a battle damaged Predator mask!

Hot Toys' series of Alien and Predator figures continues with the announcement of the fully poseable 14-inch tall figure of the battle damaged Predator scarred by the warfare in Predator 2.

The Battle Damaged Predator Movie Masterpiece figure includes:

Highly detailed body armor
Real fabric body net
Bone trophies
Full arsenal of weaponry
Interchangeable open/closed teeth
Interchangeable original/battle damaged left arm
Interchangeable sets of hands
Removable medical kit with individual small tools inside
Display base with Predator film logo
Sideshow Exclusive: battle damaged Predator mask!

But if it's additional, then why aren't the breathing mask and alien skull not listed? But then again, why aren't they listed in the regular Battle Damaged Predator 2 (even though they are pictured -- and why aren't they pictured on the Exlusive edition?)? Adding to the confusing, I'm used to Sideshow Regular editions not offered until the Exclusive editions (which offer additional accessories) have sold out... :confused::confused::confused:

Jamal
12-20-2007, 09:56 PM
It probably has everything and has the mask also.

gdb
12-20-2007, 10:02 PM
It probably has everything and has the mask also.

I hope so. That would be cool! I've pre-ordered both but I'm only keeping one and the breathing mask takes priority.

Karma
12-20-2007, 10:05 PM
I'm so confused...

SIDESHOW EXCLUSIVE EDITION
The Sideshow Exclusive version of the Battle Damaged Predator 2 model kit includes an additional accessory - a battle damaged Predator mask!

Hot Toys' series of Alien and Predator figures continues with the announcement of the fully poseable 14-inch tall figure of the battle damaged Predator scarred by the warfare in Predator 2.

The Battle Damaged Predator Movie Masterpiece figure includes:

Highly detailed body armor
Real fabric body net
Bone trophies
Full arsenal of weaponry
Interchangeable open/closed teeth
Interchangeable original/battle damaged left arm
Interchangeable sets of hands
Removable medical kit with individual small tools inside
Display base with Predator film logo
Sideshow Exclusive: battle damaged Predator mask!

But if it's additional, then why aren't the breathing mask and alien skull not listed? But then again, why aren't they listed in the regular Battle Damaged Predator 2 (even though they are pictured -- and why aren't they pictured on the Exlusive edition?)? Adding to the confusing, I'm used to Sideshow Regular editions not offered until the Exclusive editions (which offer additional accessories) have sold out... :confused::confused::confused:

alien skull is listed :lol

Jamal
12-20-2007, 10:23 PM
I hope so. That would be cool! I've pre-ordered both but I'm only keeping one and the breathing mask takes priority.
Breathing mask kills a battle damaged mask anyday

Grange Wallis
12-20-2007, 11:02 PM
I'm so confused...

SIDESHOW EXCLUSIVE EDITION
The Sideshow Exclusive version of the Battle Damaged Predator 2 model kit includes an additional accessory - a battle damaged Predator mask!

Hot Toys' series of Alien and Predator figures continues with the announcement of the fully poseable 14-inch tall figure of the battle damaged Predator scarred by the warfare in Predator 2.

The Battle Damaged Predator Movie Masterpiece figure includes:

Highly detailed body armor
Real fabric body net
Bone trophies (Alien Bone Trophy falls in here?)
Full arsenal of weaponry (Breathing Mask might fall in here?)
Interchangeable open/closed teeth
Interchangeable original/battle damaged left arm
Interchangeable sets of hands
Removable medical kit with individual small tools inside
Display base with Predator film logo
Sideshow Exclusive: battle damaged Predator mask!

But if it's additional, then why aren't the breathing mask and alien skull not listed? But then again, why aren't they listed in the regular Battle Damaged Predator 2 (even though they are pictured -- and why aren't they pictured on the Exlusive edition?)? Adding to the confusing, I'm used to Sideshow Regular editions not offered until the Exclusive editions (which offer additional accessories) have sold out... :confused::confused::confused:

I think that the one with the damaged Bio, as everything the other one does, PLUS the Damaged Bio.

I ordered the one with the Battle damaged Bio, anyway. I also brought a loose undamaged Bio Helm from the V1 figure, off eBay. So I have the full figure with full accessories on the way! Woot!

Sat on the fence with the first release, only got the Elder. So I'm happy with this development! :D

gdb
12-20-2007, 11:29 PM
I hope so. I might have paniced. I'm just so used to seeing Hot Toys withhold something only to give it in a different release.

Got me a loose bio helmet off eBay, too. Woot, indeed! We are set!

Jamal
12-20-2007, 11:43 PM
Your cheering now, this bad boy is gonna look awesome with the Elder

Praetorian380
12-21-2007, 01:47 AM
I ordered both just in case one of them has something that the other does not - I will end up keeping whichever one has the most accessories and canceling the other - I just wish the details that SSC put up were more clear, maybe they will change them and update it so that it is clearer for us.

But I concur, the breathing mask definitely takes priority over the damaged mask.

This figure is gonna be great!

TOE
12-21-2007, 03:53 AM
I m only gonn get the exclusive. ordered it, ready to go :rock



(read between the lines) :cool:

IrishJedi
12-21-2007, 06:38 AM
Ordered.

:rock :rock :rock

screamingmetal
12-21-2007, 07:29 AM
I think that the one with the damaged Bio, as everything the other one does, PLUS the Damaged Bio.

I ordered the one with the Battle damaged Bio, anyway. I also brought a loose undamaged Bio Helm from the V1 figure, off eBay. So I have the full figure with full accessories on the way! Woot!

Sat on the fence with the first release, only got the Elder. So I'm happy with this development! :D

You'll be missing one thing, the Jerry Lambert skull and spine trophy that the first one had. Though you could make a good substitute fairly cheap with the Bones Book and Skeleton set. In fact, I'm nearly 100% certain that Hot Toys copied the skull from the set with a little modification to make it a single piece. Too bad they didn't do that with the spine part of it.

Sabres21768
12-21-2007, 09:26 AM
Here's the thing I think we need to pay attention to...

They're both the same price. I don't think SS is going to give us a battle damaged helmet PLUS everything that was included with the original battle damaged version for the exact same price. That damaged helmet is taking the place of something.

DouglasMcc
12-21-2007, 11:21 AM
Here's the thing I think we need to pay attention to...

They're both the same price. I don't think SS is going to give us a battle damaged helmet PLUS everything that was included with the original battle damaged version for the exact same price. That damaged helmet is taking the place of something.

Not to be rude, but that exactly what 99% of Sideshow exclusives DO, they give us something extra for free as an incentive to order through them. The only time I can remember Sideshow charging extra for the exclusive version was with the Mynock with Bespin Han (and that was 5 bucks).

As for the skeleton, it's hanging on the back of both reg. and exc. Battle-Damaged Pred. so I feel safe in believing it's included.

icruise
12-21-2007, 11:55 AM
Precisely. That's what Sideshow exclusives are. They have an extra item that you get in addition to the normal things you get, and their entire purpose is to entice people into ordering directly from Sideshow, rather than from a dealer at a discount. Now, I don't think we've ever seen a Hot Toys item have an exclusive like this (correct me if I'm wrong) so it's possible that they're going to be doing it in a different way, but it seems very unlikely.

Blackhole
12-21-2007, 12:00 PM
I have GOT to get that exclusive version...that helmet is just too cool...:cool:

DouglasMcc
12-21-2007, 12:30 PM
Anyone on the fence better decide quick. Sideshow has already posted their cute little "quantities left" icon which means there are about 70 left out of the original 500. I must admit, with the time of the season and the cost of the figure, I didn't expect them to sell them this quickly.

P.S. For the ones concerned about whether the Battle-Damaged Mask is replacing the breathing mask, this is what Sideshow lists (quoted verbatim):

The Sideshow Exclusive version of the Battle Damaged Predator 2 model kit includes an additional accessory - a battle damaged Predator mask!

If it was replacing an item, it would say alternative item. Sure, it's possible that's a misprint, but I doubt it.

Jamal
12-21-2007, 02:39 PM
Like i said, the normal battle damaged version is more than sufficient
this is all just marketing hype

icruise
12-21-2007, 03:10 PM
Like i said, the normal battle damaged version is more than sufficient
this is all just marketing hype

Maybe, but if you're buying from Sideshow you're paying the same price for both anyway, so why not choose the option with more accessories?

Jamal
12-21-2007, 03:15 PM
You can do that

Predator 2 - Released
Predator 2 Battle Damaged - Pending
Predator 2 Battle Damaged Exclusive - Pending

I think 1 Variant of a figure is enough imo.

Sniper33
12-21-2007, 05:01 PM
Put down my Preorder for the Exclusive version of this figure. Been wanting to get the reg Pred 2 for awhile but now that this is coming out Ill just wait. But now Im worried about the RPD Leon, Spook Zombie, Shaun of the Dead/Ed, and Swat Zombie.....so much money

Bardoon
12-21-2007, 05:02 PM
I like the interchangeable mouths/mandibles!!! Hopefully they hold rather well, that's really a good idea instead of different heads. I might have a reason to leave my Predator unmasked then! :lol

DouglasMcc
12-21-2007, 05:19 PM
You can do that

Predator 2 - Released
Predator 2 Battle Damaged - Pending
Predator 2 Battle Damaged Exclusive - Pending

I think 1 Variant of a figure is enough imo.

I don't see the BD Predator 2 as two separate figures. I mean, are the Jedi Luke and Jedi Luke with exc. barge blaster considered 2 different figures? No. So, technically, they have released a single variant. The broken mask is just an extra item in the first 500 sold to SSC. I am not going to argue that HT stuff is too pricey some of the times. And, the prices went up AFTER they joined with Sideshow and started selling more in the US. However, I can't fault them for doing a variant. They could pump out another couple of thousand of the regular Preds, and risk alienating their fans (you know, the "edition size" fodder). Why? Just release a variant to help those who don't want to pay 2nd market pricing. I would imagine the 500 battle damaged masks for SSC is just a way to thank them for their business partnership. Either way, I don't get the anger.

Jamal
12-21-2007, 05:36 PM
Its not anger, its just an opinion like i said i dont care for the battle damaged mask and the normal variant suits me fine :)

Grange Wallis
12-21-2007, 11:30 PM
You'll be missing one thing, the Jerry Lambert skull and spine trophy that the first one had. Though you could make a good substitute fairly cheap with the Bones Book and Skeleton set. In fact, I'm nearly 100% certain that Hot Toys copied the skull from the set with a little modification to make it a single piece. Too bad they didn't do that with the spine part of it.

This figure has Jerry Lambert skull and spine trophy... You can see the the tail of the spine in this picture, it's strapped to his back!
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/63381_press02-001.jpg

Jamal
12-22-2007, 12:59 AM
Yeah it must come with it if it's in the promo pic.

Sabres21768
12-22-2007, 03:49 AM
So, essentially, this is a better version of the original release. Since it comes with everything the original came with PLUS extra stuff. It even has a better face sculpt. :rotfl

I'm glad I didn't get the first one now. I'm not missing out on this one, that's for sure.

Dark_Spidey
12-22-2007, 03:54 AM
Even if I do have the first one, I'll be getting the BD version for sure! Looks way to awesome not to buy it!

Jamal
12-22-2007, 03:58 AM
Yep, i caved in and ordered this sucka. Having them both will look cool side by side

Blackhole
12-22-2007, 12:13 PM
So many accessories...is there anything he loses from the original version?

screamingmetal
12-22-2007, 12:23 PM
This figure has Jerry Lambert skull and spine trophy... You can see the the tail of the spine in this picture, it's strapped to his back!
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/63381_press02-001.jpg
you're right, it does. That just pisses me off even more about the P2 Pred situation. :mad:

Mudshark
12-22-2007, 01:31 PM
Yep, i caved in and ordered this sucka. Having them both will look cool side by side
:lol:rotfl:lol:rotfl:lol

Oh, they got you so good, man. But you've got plenty of company, bro! I caved and ordered the exclusive from Sideshow. If he's got all the stuff the regular one does plus the busted up mask to boot, for the same price, then why the hell not. What I really want is that medkit, the respirator mask, and of course that wicked alien skull!!!

Jamal
12-22-2007, 06:31 PM
Yeah the head sculpt, respirator and skull is what makes it cool for me

Bardoon
12-23-2007, 01:16 PM
So what's the final story here? Does the Sideshow Exclusive come with BOTH the helmet AND the respirator? Or not?

icruise
12-23-2007, 01:56 PM
So what's the final story here? Does the Sideshow Exclusive come with BOTH the helmet AND the respirator? Or not?

I don't think we have a definitive answer, but that is what the evidence points to.

Jamal
12-23-2007, 05:17 PM
Ive seen other discussions that say you get the mask but no respirator but that makes no sense

Mudshark
12-24-2007, 01:51 AM
Sheeeee-it! This is the exact same question I was asking pages ago... and it seems we're still no closer to a definite answer. I went ahead and ordered the exclusive from SSC based on the assumption that ALL the stuff is included with it, even though the product blurb didn't specifically mention it, nor did the photos show it. "I'm so CONFUSED...my brain hurts!" :lol

Anyway, I sure hope to hell it does come with everything, cause I'd much rather have the respirator mask than the cracked bio-mask, if it turns out to be a one-or-the-other choice! Perhaps it is time to ask Sideshow directly and see if they know what the deal is...
:taz :taz :taz

TOE
12-24-2007, 02:18 AM
So what's the final story here? Does the Sideshow Exclusive come with BOTH the helmet AND the respirator? Or not?

the exclusive has everything the regular has + the exclusive mask

Mudshark
12-24-2007, 02:45 AM
Sure hope it turns out to be true. If only there were some pics of the actual figure in its packaging with all the pieces in their trays, that would be very helpful right about now!

TOE
12-24-2007, 03:31 AM
from Sideshow description:

The Sideshow Exclusive version of the Battle Damaged Predator 2 model kit includes an additional accessory - a battle damaged Predator mask!



I don't know what everyone else thinks but to me the word additional usually means everything plus something else.

gdb
12-24-2007, 04:25 AM
It also says Hot Toys. That usually means buyer be ware. I'm with Mudshark. There's something lost in translation in the items' descriptions. While I would like to hang my hopes on the use of the word additional, I'd rather hang them on additional reassurances.

Jamal
12-24-2007, 07:15 AM
Well they rooted us on the first version of the P2 imo lol

Blackhole
12-24-2007, 10:38 AM
I know it would make people angry, but it would be so awesome if this pred came with everything the first P2 had...

And the extras...that would be amazingly fantabulistic...

Jamal
12-24-2007, 11:53 AM
Id be very disapointed if the Sideshow Ex. didnt have all the items plus the helmet

Mudshark
12-24-2007, 12:20 PM
When all is said and done I suppose the present uncertainty about what we're getting will be soon forgotten, but it would just feel a lot better knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we'll be getting the whole enchilada, and not the shaft!

TOE
12-24-2007, 12:24 PM
99.999% of the time, an exclusive version always comes with what the regular has plus an extra.

Mudshark
12-24-2007, 12:35 PM
That's true. Maybe we ought to just let it go. We'll no doubt hear something pretty soon if there are any differences we should know about, anyway.
:horse

My Lord
12-24-2007, 01:02 PM
I'm not too worried about it. I'm in the camp that thinks the Exclusive will come with everything + bio mask.

The example that comes to mind is Hot Toys Robocop v.1, and Robocop v.2. Sideshow had both available at one time, and both where identical in every way, except SSC had listed the v.2 as a "SSC Exclusive with Gunarm."

Jamal
12-24-2007, 01:02 PM
^^ pretty true!

P.
03-09-2017, 01:50 AM
please move this thread to the "action figures" section. people look for it there and cannot find.