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pjam
10-22-2007, 03:08 PM
Well, WB finally came to their senses and decided to go with new Writer's as some of us (including yours truly) predicted and hoped for...


Here's to a fresh take on our Hero... :duff

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117974449.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

Cocoboloboy
10-22-2007, 03:27 PM
Interesting. So does that mean we won't see Supes on the big screen for a couple more years?:monkey2

The ill Jedi
10-22-2007, 03:28 PM
NICE! :rock

But will he finally fight an actual Super Villain this time?

:D That's a joke from the, 'I'm a Marvel, I'm a DC' YouTube vids. :lol

Batty
10-22-2007, 03:33 PM
Good news. I just hope it doesn't take forever to find writers.

Kabukiman
10-22-2007, 03:56 PM
If they're going the "do-over" route, I wish they drop the entire movie mythos completely and start mining the comics for material.

Wouldn't it make sense to adapt the greatest selling comic books series of all time? Doomsday/Funeral/Supermen/Return could easily produce them 2-3 very profitable movies. If they go this route (which they won't) I just hope that the Superman in the hospital part of Returns doesn't dilute the dramatic impact of his death.

Yes, I know it's been done as a 80 minute cartoon. What I'm looking for is the 3 movie epic that this story deserves.

Darklord Dave
10-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Ah, another 8 years of development hell. Like how the article has it both ways, saying that industry chatter has it they want a reboot with WB saying it's a sequel to the Singer film. Nothing about Singer definitely directing though.

Personally I'd like a reboot, but I don't want to wait another 8 years. They tried developing Death of... and weren't able to do it.

IronFingaz
10-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Sounds good but i thought they were already working on the next movie. Didnt they say not too long ago, that they were looking for a 2009 release?

figuremasterles
10-22-2007, 05:19 PM
God, not again!
Just settle and make one already! I am tired of the development on this property. I thought we could go anywhere next go round. Enough establishment.
I guess not. Restart yet again. And again. ...:monkey4

(Just no more Lex Luthor!)

hairlesswookiee
10-22-2007, 06:11 PM
lol.... thats right!!! i absolutely hated superman returns and now this is happening. "Reasons mentioned were the introduction of Superman's son with Lois Lane" LOL im glad im not the only person who thought that was the most retarded thing ever. didn't anyone ever watch mallrats???

McHavyck
10-22-2007, 06:31 PM
NICE! :rock

But will he finally fight an actual Super Villain this time?

:D That's a joke from the, 'I'm a Marvel, I'm a DC' YouTube vids. :lol

How %^&$ sweet would it be if they did Doomsday?

Grange Wallis
10-22-2007, 06:37 PM
I personally would love to see Superman: Birthright done as a movie... You see Clark in Africa in his pre-superman do-goer days, you see Lex as a Millionaire, Clark is just a strong-quite type, but has Journalistic chops, Jonathan is alive... You see krypton, you see Superman struggling with his duel identities and a massive and epic battle at the end with the fake Kryptonians lex deploys to ruin Superman reputation!

I'd love to see the death and the return of Superman, it'd have to be a 2 parter I think... People (the General Public) would hate the 2nd movie if it was 3 parts due to the lack of the title character...

gdb
10-22-2007, 06:46 PM
This is the first fallout from the Justice League movie, then? I would think a reboot would be the last resort. I think a sequel that marginalized Returns is more what the studio brass is looking for -- and would please the most people in the long run.

Okay, now I'm on board with an idea I think I read Pjam throw out in a different thread awhile ago. Let Donner do the next one.

Bardoon
10-22-2007, 06:49 PM
I think they can continue with Superman Returns storyline....

Just off the kid or something. Make Lex Luthor more like he is in the comics than an evil real estate agent and of course....UP the action with a super-villain capable of standing toe-to-toe with Supes....like Braniac or someone.

The Mike
10-22-2007, 08:36 PM
Let's clear some of this up. Singer is still attached to the film, the reps from WB are still stating its set for 2009, the writers have gone elsewhere but Brandon Routh is still attached and has actually signed a three picture deal similar to Bale's that had a "crossover clause" that will most likely never be used. That is what I could gather from various sites, people are obviously excited about this possibly new move for the Man of Steel. Here is the latest:


Mark Millar to Pitch Superman Sequel
Source: Mark Millar October 22, 2007


With the news that Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris are not returning to write the Superman Returns sequel, Mark Millar wants to pitch Warner Bros. his vision of the franchise. He says on his official boards:

It's 8.58am right now, my guys at CAA get into the office in about seven hours and my call will be waiting for them to talk about this. I want to revamp Superman like Hillary wants thin ankles. Revamping this franchise is what I as given fingers for and so, invited or not, I'm putting my plan together now. I've been asked to work on half a dozen screenplays lately, but this is the only one I have ever truly wanted.

As most here know, I have literally hundreds of pages of notes and sketches just waiting for this opportunity. This would be my dream gig and, as a fan, I know exactly what this project needs to work. This has to be Superman for the 21st Century, keeping everything we adore, but starting from scratch and making the kids love it as much as the 30-somethings. I would honestly write this thing for free.

Anyway, my treatment is being polished as we type. Wish me luck. I want to do that Superman movie we all want to see.



For those who do not know Mark Millar wanted to show tons of Krypton and even had a loose script written for the hell of it at the time Superman Returns was in production. He also claimed to know for sure that Jim Cavizel was going to be cast. His story though had merit using Brainiac a lot to show visions of old including Jor-El and Lara even including sequences of destruction around Krypton. He said that with modern technology that they should have definitely gone this route.

I'm interested to see if WB will allow him to do it. For those who don't know Millar wrote the Marvel crossover Civil War and wrote Superman: Red Son, an Elseworlds tale involving a what if Superman landed in Communist Russia instead of Kansas.

pjam
10-22-2007, 08:50 PM
That Millar dude sounds like Kevin Smith... :lol

They're all coming out of the woodwork now.

Gdb, I actually mentioned this should be written by an A-lister like Steve Zaillian, and wouldn't it be great if Donner directed it.

The Mike
10-22-2007, 08:53 PM
Lol, the only difference is that Kevin Smith wanted to turn it into a Alien vs. Alien flick with Jay and Silent Bob interning at the Daily Planet. I actually would trust Millar to write a Superman film but he would definitely undertone it with something, usually a political message but at least he believes in keeping Supes in his standard suit and Lex as a human.

pjam
10-22-2007, 08:56 PM
It's not likely anyone who publicly campaigns for the gig would be chosen to write it by the Studio. I know how WB works, having worked for them, and they don't like to work that way.

The Mike
10-22-2007, 08:59 PM
Probably right although Millar is usually just happy to get his name floating around.....I think it'd be a great idea though to get a Comic writer to reform something they've done into a great film. Mark Waid's Birthright would be an excellent segway into a new Superman mythos still keeping intact the fans of Superman and the fans of Smallville. Routh could definitely pull of this role although a lot of what makes it great will be cut because another Superman film can't be done without a major villain and a lot of action.

gdb
10-22-2007, 09:11 PM
That Millar dude sounds like Kevin Smith... :lol

They're all coming out of the woodwork now.

Gdb, I actually mentioned this should be written by an A-lister like Steve Zaillian, and wouldn't it be great if Donner directed it.

Ah, that was it! But with Singer's pet writers off the film and the way he's proven to be so Lackadaisy toward the sequel I don't know if he's long for the project.

pjam
10-22-2007, 10:03 PM
Ah, that was it! But with Singer's pet writers off the film and the way he's proven to be so Lackadaisy toward the sequel I don't know if he's long for the project.


Hope not, rape me once, shame on you...

and WB knows they got raped.

The Mike
10-30-2007, 10:06 PM
October 29, 2007: Superman and Justice League Movie Updates
MovieWeb.com caught up with Kevin Spacey to ask him about the sequel to "Superman Returns".

Kevin Spacey: There are no developments right now. I know as much as the rest of the world knows.
So there are no plans to go into production?

Kevin Spacey: Not that I knows of. I'm signed to do it, but I don't know anything about the storyline or the shooting schedule at this point.

Darth Caedus
10-30-2007, 10:40 PM
I've met Mike Dougherty about 5 or 6 times and he is a good friend of one of my good friends, but I like SR; even though there wasn't enough action. Anything with Supes, that isn't Superman IV, I love. If I hear anything I'll post it here, but Variety seems to have actually gotten it right.

OSCORP
10-31-2007, 03:39 PM
It'll happen and it'll be good.

OSCORP
03-12-2008, 12:07 PM
12 March 2008Singer Talks Superman Returns Sequel
Exclusive: Director confirms development http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/150x180/7972.jpg http://www.empireonline.com/images/point.gif
http://www.empireonline.com/images/point.gif Earlier today, IESB (http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4497&Itemid=99) reported that there was a strong rumour that Bryan Singer was working on a sequel to Superman Returns and that Transformers' Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman would be writing the script. Well, we've spoken to Singer and, though we have no news on whether the Orci/Kurtzman story is true, he's confirmed that work's under way on the film that some said would never happen because the first was perceived as a flop.

"That movie made $400 million!" Singer says incredulously. "I don’t know what constitutes under-performing these days...Look, I can understand, I suppose, what some people mean. Perhaps some people went in with the expectation of it being like an X-Men film, and Superman is a tougher character than that. Especially bringing him back. It really goes back to the fact that you can only please some of the people some of the time. But, yes, I’m just getting back with writers after the strike. We’re just in the development phase. I’m starting to develop a sequel...with the intention of directing it."

Singer knows that there was some negative reaction to the fact that the first film focused more on story at the expense of action and is looking to redress that next time.

“The first one was a romantic film (http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22165#) and a nostalgic film,” he says. “I’ll be the first person to own up to that without making any apologies for it. I knew it was going to be that from the outset. And now that the characters are established, there’s really an opportunity to up the threat levels...Clearly there’ll be a body count [laughs]. From frame one, it will be unrelenting terror! All those teenage girls who found the movie and mooned over James Marsden or Brandon? Well, I’m going to wake them up!” He may be joking about the unrelenting terror.

We have to say, we actually enjoyed a huge amount about Superman Returns. Brandon Routh made a terrific Superman and Clark Kent and Singer clearly cared about the characters. It was light on action, so it would be great to see a sequel in which we get to actually experience what Supes can really do.

What do you think? Do you want to see Superman return again?

The Mike
03-12-2008, 12:11 PM
Do you want to see Superman return again?

Without a doubt. I'm dying to see Big Blue back on the Big Screen. I'm just hoping it won't take until 2015 to get it. While SR wasn't the blockbuster people were hoping I actually liked it (then again I liked Lee's Hulk as well)....I say Singer has seen the way people have perceived SR and I think it'd take a real narocistic bastard to ignore it and return to business as usual....he's not McG so I have little to no fear. I will admit though I'd love to see other directors take on the mantle as well....

OSCORP
03-12-2008, 12:14 PM
hopefully by 2010

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 12:31 PM
I was hoping for a reboot too, or a Smallville continuation. But hopefully Brainiac and Zod kill the kid in the first frame and the movie follows from there...

NASEDO
03-12-2008, 12:36 PM
I don't want to see a new Superman Movie, not by Singer, he ruined the last one. I been a big Superman Geek for a long time, and Superman Returns was aweful. So for now its just Smallville.

Entropy
03-12-2008, 12:39 PM
I was hoping for a reboot too. But hopefully Brainiac and Zod kill the kid in the first frame and the movie follows from there...

:lecture. I couldn't agree more. If it hadn't been for the superbrat and Lex's stupid land making plan I would've enjoyed the movie. The sequel can only be better right? :rolleyes:

Darth Caedus
03-12-2008, 12:47 PM
I for one, enjoyed Superman Returns quite a lot. Sure it didn't have the action the X-Men movies had, but that's not what's interesting for the Character IMO. What's interesting for the character is how he interacts with "humans". Sure, he's an alien from another planet, but he was raised a human. Where you have this super-industrictible body, but the emotions and feelings of a human; that can create great stories. He can take over the world if he wants, but he doesn't because he wants to help earth; that's a character. I hope Singer doesn't forget that and just for mindless violence (even though that's awesome too; just not for a Superman film)

PLUS: anything with John Williams' score is awesome.

nash
03-12-2008, 12:50 PM
Me and Darth Caedus are probably the few people that loved Returns. I love everything about that movie. It was so much more of just an "x-men" movie...:monkey4. The cinematography of the airplane scene blew me away like nothing else. Watching that ++++ in Imax is AMAZING. not to mention the awesome score and underlying feel of the movie.

We need The Man of Steel ASAP!

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 12:51 PM
I liked Routh's thoughtful Superman and even in a reboot I'd like to see him in the role. And personally I didn't have a problem with the more character based focus of SR.

But I hated that they maintained the Donner mythos instead of bringing it up to date as has been done about 3 times in the comics (since the '80s) and also on Smallville.

nash
03-12-2008, 12:52 PM
I for one, enjoyed Superman Returns quite a lot. Sure it didn't have the action the X-Men movies had, but that's not what's interesting for the Character IMO. What's interesting for the character is how he interacts with "humans". Sure, he's an alien from another planet, but he was raised a human. Where you have this super-industrictible body, but the emotions and feelings of a human; that can create great stories. He can take over the world if he wants, but he doesn't because he wants to help earth; that's a character. I hope Singer doesn't forget that and just for mindless violence (even though that's awesome too; just not for a Superman film)

PLUS: anything with John Williams' score is awesome.

Well said dude

nash
03-12-2008, 12:53 PM
I liked Routh's thoughtful Superman and even in a reboot I'd like to see him in the role. And personally I didn't have a problem with the more character based focus of SR.

But I hated that they maintained the Donner mythos instead of bringing it up to date as has been done about 3 times in the comics (since the '80s) and also on Smallville.

It's been so long since we've had a superman movie, he probably did that to snag the old timers in with some nostalgia.

OSCORP
03-12-2008, 01:19 PM
I liked returns as well.(glad homage to Donner was in there)Just too slow on the action for me,(what action there was was cool)which don't look to be a problem in the sequel.Nothing will beat Superman the movie IMO but i can't wait for the next one!

Darth Caedus
03-12-2008, 01:32 PM
I liked returns as well.(glad homage to Donner was in there)Just too slow on the action for me,(what action there was was cool)which don't look to be a problem in the sequel.Nothing will beat Superman the movie IMO but i can't wait for the next one!

I like it very much, but the pre-crisis Supes had a little too much power. Reversing time around and the amnesia kiss..................

Darth Loki
03-12-2008, 01:35 PM
Me and Darth Caedus are probably the few people that loved Returns. I love everything about that movie. It was so much more of just an "x-men" movie...:monkey4. The cinematography of the airplane scene blew me away like nothing else. Watching that ++++ in Imax is AMAZING. not to mention the awesome score and underlying feel of the movie.

We need The Man of Steel ASAP!


:clap:clap:clap

Agree with everything you said.

The Mike
03-12-2008, 01:38 PM
I don't want to see a new Superman Movie, not by Singer, he ruined the last one. I been a big Superman Geek for a long time, and Superman Returns was aweful. So for now its just Smallville.

This is kind of a strange statement as most die hard Superman fans have grown to absolutely hate Smallville as they have warped and bastardized the mythos completely in recent times. It started out great and kind of took its own feel on how it should be done in modern times....I have even grown a bit wary of how Smallville has taken a lot of liberties with heroes and origins, etc.

Although I will say Routh is definitely this generation's Superman, keep him in the role no matter what.

carbo-fation
03-12-2008, 01:44 PM
I guess I am also one of the few who loved Superman Returns. I thought it was a perfect way to bring Superman back onto the big screen instead of an action-packed, mindless movie. After reading the interview, it seems Singer got the message from the dissatisfied fans and he's obviously planning on making the sequel more action oriented. I do hope that the new villain will be someone not previously seen in the other four movies such as Brainac, Doomsday or Darkseid.

Edit: I hope no one will ever attempt to make Smallville into a big screen movie. That show ruined Superman.:monkey4:emperor

Darth Caedus
03-12-2008, 01:47 PM
Hope they don't subsitute quality for action like X-Men 3 did...that was just an abomination...

Darth Loki
03-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Hope they don't subsitute quality for action like X-Men 3 did...that was just an abomination...

X-3 wasn't nearly as good as the first two but it was no where near an abomination. Still a very enjoyable movie. But there were certainly things I would've done differently.

carbo-fation
03-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Hope they don't subsitute quality for action like X-Men 3 did...that was just an abomination...

:lecture:lecture

X3 was the biggest let down of any comic book movie for me. :monkey4

The Mike
03-12-2008, 02:11 PM
Spider-Man 3 falls into that category much easier than X3.....

OSCORP
03-12-2008, 02:58 PM
That show ruined Superman.:monkey4:emperor

Not for me i don't watch it and it don't exist to me simple.

Supes on the big screen all the way.

drjedisith
03-12-2008, 03:13 PM
loved superman returns minus all the lex scenes. and x 3 ruled!

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Smallville is a much more complex and complete characterization of Clark than we've seen before. Sure there are true dog episodes, but the mythology ones are always the best.

The Superman story is fiction, so different authors can reimagine it anyway they see fit. There are so many reinterpretations in Smallville that I like much more than the "canon".

All of these things are smarter and more interesting on Smallville than in the movie or comics:
-Clark and Lex as friends first
-Red kryptonite
-Phantom Zone
-Bizzaro
-Zod possesses Lex
-Zor-el as a rival for Lara and hater of Jor-El
-the Kents were chosen by Jor-El

I could probably make a list of things I don't like, such as every Kryptonian and their brother (literally) have been to Earth. But the positives far outweigh the negatives for me.

pixletwin
03-12-2008, 03:27 PM
Me and Darth Caedus are probably the few people that loved Returns. I love everything about that movie. It was so much more of just an "x-men" movie...:monkey4. The cinematography of the airplane scene blew me away like nothing else. Watching that ++++ in Imax is AMAZING. not to mention the awesome score and underlying feel of the movie.

We need The Man of Steel ASAP!

I loved it and I loved Routh as Supes. I hope they do another one and the sooner the better.

Kabukiman
03-12-2008, 03:33 PM
The only thing I didn't like about Returns was that I found Lois to be a bit unlikable, but other than that, it rocked hard. Who needs non-stop action in a film with so much emotion?

Routh was perfect. I hope he reprises the role.

TheObsoleteMan
03-12-2008, 03:37 PM
Smallville is a much more complex and complete characterization of Clark than we've seen before.

The thing I hate about Smallville Clark is that he's so directionless. He's well past the point that he should've realized his destiny and gotten the hell off of that farm. I know they have to keep him there to keep dragging the show along, but in doing so, they make him look clueless about what to do with his life. There's people suffering all over the world that he could be helping, staying in Smallville and hanging out at the farm makes it seem like he doesn't give a damn unless it affects him directly. It's hard for me to imagine him becoming Superman at this point.

DarthNeil
03-12-2008, 03:40 PM
They should go get Kevin Smith's script... Brainiac with Luther... Doomsday... Eliminate the stupid R2 like robot (Brainiac's sidekick there only for comedic effect) and they'd have both a good action/superhero movie and one that had some good dialogue...

Just a thought...

OSCORP
03-12-2008, 03:41 PM
They should go get Kevin Smith's script

:pow:lightnin:pow

The farther away he is the better.

King Darkness
03-12-2008, 03:41 PM
So we can expect the next Superman movie in 2018:banghead

F'n Hell!!

TheObsoleteMan
03-12-2008, 03:43 PM
They should go get Kevin Smith's script... Brainiac with Luther... Doomsday... Eliminate the stupid R2 like robot (Brainiac's sidekick there only for comedic effect) and they'd have both a good action/superhero movie and one that had some good dialogue...

Just a thought...

Sounds good, as long as we get Brainiac wrasslin' polar bears and a giant spider.

The Mike
03-12-2008, 03:47 PM
All of these things are smarter and more interesting on Smallville than in the movie or comics:
-Clark and Lex as friends first
-Red kryptonite
-Phantom Zone
-Bizzaro
-Zod possesses Lex
-Zor-el as a rival for Lara and hater of Jor-El
-the Kents were chosen by Jor-El

I could probably make a list of things I don't like, such as every Kryptonian and their brother (literally) have been to Earth. But the positives far outweigh the negatives for me.

Here are the things that negates all of that for me.


Lois Knew Clark before Metropolis
Clark has been walking around Smallville sans Glasses



Attaching Lois to Smallville is the second worst ++++ing idea I've ever seen occur, it totally destroys the chemistry and play that they gain once he hits Metropolis, making that occur in Smallville does NOT make it better.

Second? Where the ++++ are his ++++ing glasses?!?!? So I'm supposed to believe that eventually when he is walking around Metropolis in Superman garb everyone will suddenly forget what he looked like? What about yearbooks, press clippings or more importantly Lex and Lois?!?!?!? What the ++++! They couldn't slap a pair on Welling from the beginning and just make it work? Jesus ++++ing Christ! Dumbest ++++ing ++++ I've ever seen and completely makes Smallville instantly removed from canon because then the writers of Smallville would have to eliminate all the Superman history and change how Superman gets around to avoid the ID or what? Some magical spell that makes everyone forget? No, that's the dumb ++++ they pull with Spidey.

++++!!!

DarthNeil
03-12-2008, 04:50 PM
Sounds good, as long as we get Brainiac wrasslin' polar bears and a giant spider.

Agreed.:rotfl

Mithrandier
03-12-2008, 04:58 PM
Who is this "Man of Steel"???

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 05:10 PM
Here are the things that negates all of that for me.


Lois Knew Clark before Metropolis
Clark has been walking around Smallville sans Glasses



Attaching Lois to Smallville is the second worst ++++ing idea I've ever seen occur, it totally destroys the chemistry and play that they gain once he hits Metropolis, making that occur in Smallville does NOT make it better.

Second? Where the ++++ are his ++++ing glasses?!?!? So I'm supposed to believe that eventually when he is walking around Metropolis in Superman garb everyone will suddenly forget what he looked like? What about yearbooks, press clippings or more importantly Lex and Lois?!?!?!? What the ++++! They couldn't slap a pair on Welling from the beginning and just make it work? Jesus ++++ing Christ! Dumbest ++++ing ++++ I've ever seen and completely makes Smallville instantly removed from canon because then the writers of Smallville would have to eliminate all the Superman history and change how Superman gets around to avoid the ID or what? Some magical spell that makes everyone forget? No, that's the dumb ++++ they pull with Spidey.

++++!!!

I have to say that emphatically disagree with both those reasons.

They may eventually have to come up with some explanation about how and why people don't recognize him later. It shouldn't be difficult to do - whether it's super hypnosis or something smarter - that's the magic of a fantasy character - you can just make it up! But there's absolutely no reason for him to be wearing glasses as Clark - he's not hiding his identity and he certainly doesn't need them to improve his eyesight.

I think the character of Lois has been the best thing to happen to that show. Not just because Durance is so much fun to watch, but her and Clark's relationship as antagonistic brother and sister types makes the life-partners that they later become more believable for me. A relationship that has a firm basis in other things besides romance has a greater chance of surviving. It's also fun to see Lois fall for every super hero and villain that passes through Smallville.

nash
03-12-2008, 05:28 PM
Here are the things that negates all of that for me.

Lois Knew Clark before Metropolis
Clark has been walking around Smallville sans Glasses

Attaching Lois to Smallville is the second worst ++++ing idea I've ever seen occur, it totally destroys the chemistry and play that they gain once he hits Metropolis, making that occur in Smallville does NOT make it better.

Second? Where the ++++ are his ++++ing glasses?!?!? So I'm supposed to believe that eventually when he is walking around Metropolis in Superman garb everyone will suddenly forget what he looked like? What about yearbooks, press clippings or more importantly Lex and Lois?!?!?!? What the ++++! They couldn't slap a pair on Welling from the beginning and just make it work? Jesus ++++ing Christ! Dumbest ++++ing ++++ I've ever seen and completely makes Smallville instantly removed from canon because then the writers of Smallville would have to eliminate all the Superman history and change how Superman gets around to avoid the ID or what? Some magical spell that makes everyone forget? No, that's the dumb ++++ they pull with Spidey.

++++!!!

lol mike, i feel your passion bro. but i never assume that smallville and the movies go hand in hand. I take one for what it is and the other for what it is. I enjoy smalliville just because it gives us an ongoing story of superman's early years, not because it's cannon.

The Mike
03-12-2008, 05:36 PM
They may eventually have to come up with some explanation about how and why people don't recognize him later. It shouldn't be difficult to do - whether it's super hypnosis or something smarter - that's the magic of a fantasy character - you can just make it up! But there's absolutely no reason for him to be wearing glasses as Clark - he's not hiding his identity and he certainly doesn't need them to improve his eyesight.

Here's the funny thing Dave, the writers of the show said "No flights, No tights" because it would ruin the reality and make it too campy. Saying that he is a fantasy character so they can introduce Zatanna and have her snap her fingers wiping out memories is completely retarded. It ruins the original idea of the show and makes a lot of what is been considered acceptable because it was rooted in realism as much as possible a wasted amount of investment. The only reason for him to be wearing glasses???? Easy, the Kents knew they need to protect their son, the deep blue of his eyes was in the original tales a giveaway because they didn't look human, they put thick rimmed glasses on him with thick glass not to improve his vision but stop the light from showing off the deep blue in his eyes...it was part of the reasoning to disguise who he was, this is also why he would slouch and comb is hair a certain way to allow him to assimilate as much as possible. You have to remember that its not a Clark and Superman duality but Kal-El at all times playing Clark in a desperate need to fit in amongst the people of Earth. From the get go Smallville ruined pieces of this but even more so when the Kents only half ass stop him from exposing himself and with Clark being so out and about amongst Smallvillites. Clark was typical shown as timid being afraid of being caught, exposed and taken and while the Welling portrayal didn't flush that way it really wasn't thought out well enough IMHO with making a connection with existing Superman mythos it seems like they were content in just rewriting it. The hypnosis idea was what was occurring in the 1970s being emitted from his actual glasses, was dumb then is no less dumb now.


I think the character of Lois has been the best thing to happen to that show. Not just because Durance is so much fun to watch, but her and Clark's relationship as antagonistic brother and sister types makes the life-partners that they later become more believable for me. A relationship that has a firm basis in other things besides romance has a greater chance of surviving. It's also fun to see Lois fall for every super hero and villain that passes through Smallville.

It destroys the Love Triangle plain and simple. Lois has no respect for Clark because of his act and this is a tough situation for Clark because he has to keep up the fasade. Lois and Clark shouldn't have a brother/sister relationship IMHO, she gains respect for him over time because Clark never down plays his Journalist roles but he gets to really experience his love as himself.....its a benefit to the fact that Lois loves him not his secret identity.

NASEDO
03-12-2008, 05:56 PM
You dont like Smallville because of the glasses, thats crazy, and I do see Smallville different from the movies, you gotta take smallville for what it is, not a 250 million dollar budget movie. The movie which lets Lex out of jail becuase Superman wasn't around to be a witness, the stupid child, Lois again, the stupid kid, etc., what was good about it, the effects, they better be for that price. The Story sucked, and it dont have to be action or violence, just a good story. I'll get back to this, I'm on the run right now.

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Here's the funny thing Dave, the writers of the show said "No flights, No tights" because it would ruin the reality and make it too campy. Saying that he is a fantasy character so they can introduce Zatanna and have her snap her fingers wiping out memories is completely retarded. It ruins the original idea of the show and makes a lot of what is been considered acceptable because it was rooted in realism as much as possible a wasted amount of investment. The only reason for him to be wearing glasses???? Easy, the Kents knew they need to protect their son, the deep blue of his eyes was in the original tales a giveaway because they didn't look human, they put thick rimmed glasses on him with thick glass not to improve his vision but stop the light from showing off the deep blue in his eyes...it was part of the reasoning to disguise who he was, this is also why he would slouch and comb is hair a certain way to allow him to assimilate as much as possible. You have to remember that its not a Clark and Superman duality but Kal-El at all times playing Clark in a desperate need to fit in amongst the people of Earth. From the get go Smallville ruined pieces of this but even more so when the Kents only half ass stop him from exposing himself and with Clark being so out and about amongst Smallvillites. Clark was typical shown as timid being afraid of being caught, exposed and taken and while the Welling portrayal didn't flush that way it really wasn't thought out well enough IMHO with making a connection with existing Superman mythos it seems like they were content in just rewriting it. The hypnosis idea was what was occurring in the 1970s being emitted from his actual glasses, was dumb then is no less dumb now.

Ah, you see I absolutely hate that interpretation of Clark. That's one of the reasons I was disappointed with SR and All-Star Superman. Clark is the the real personality - and Superman is the act. The Byrne '80s reboot was the perfect way to handle it, IMHO.




It destroys the Love Triangle plain and simple. Lois has no respect for Clark because of his act and this is a tough situation for Clark because he has to keep up the fasade. Lois and Clark shouldn't have a brother/sister relationship IMHO, she gains respect for him over time because Clark never down plays his Journalist roles but he gets to really experience his love as himself.....its a benefit to the fact that Lois loves him not his secret identity.

But the way the comics and SR portray the relationship is that Lois loved Superman first and couldn't give Clark the time of day. It reinforces how shallow she is. I don't think there should be a triangle - it makes Clark a schizophrenic and makes Lois look stupid. She should fall for Clark as himself and recognize that Superman is just a job he goes to. Perhaps I was too influenced by Lois & Clark - but they based the characterizations on the Byrne reboot and I totally bought into that.

The Mike
03-12-2008, 08:36 PM
What you have to realize is that Clark is a fascade. No question about it. Clark Kent is the farmboy from Smallville, Kansas. No matter how many fans want it to be so or how many writers want it to be so, Kal-El is from Krypton. He is an Alien. He is NOT Clark Kent. In his mind, the persona is something that was created in order to hide in plain sight. Clark Kent is what he feels he has to be to be considered human. Superman is who he is. Superman is just another name for Kal-El but the way he thinks and feels, act and is....there is no difference. Clark is a cover, pure and simple. No matter what the writers do to him, no matter what the changes are done via film, television or any other media you cannot make him a dual character like Batman, you cannot give him the Clark persona as real and say that Superman is the act. Its not the nature of the creation. He is an alien from a far away planet sent to Earth by this father to save humanity from itself.....that is all he ever was, all he ever is and all he ever will be. The rest is just fancy and sometimes convoluted window dressing.

As for Lois, you are reading the character incorrectly. Her falling in love with Superman isn't about shallowness its about meeting that one person who makes you go against the grain. The one person who effects you in such away that you act uncharacteristically. Lois is tough as nails and never gave Clark the time of day because he wasn't up to her caliber, he wasn't in her same league and she knew it. Superman made her act in a way that was so confusing she actually allowed herself to be smitten. Its about the chemistry there. Clark isn't schizophrenic just that talented of an actor and I think in a way he sees what Lois wants and know to act to opposite to keep his closest ally but also the closest one to reveal him because he fears to further her career she would in an instant at bay.

What you have to understand is Kal-El wants to be Clark and is more comfortable in that zone....he wants Lois to love Clark because that who he WANTS to be......he is constantly dealing with the fact that its not who he is. That is the key to understanding the character....a God who wants to be mortal.

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 09:06 PM
What you have to realize is that Clark is a fascade. No question about it. Clark Kent is the farmboy from Smallville, Kansas. No matter how many fans want it to be so or how many writers want it to be so, Kal-El is from Krypton. He is an Alien. He is NOT Clark Kent. In his mind, the persona is something that was created in order to hide in plain sight. Clark Kent is what he feels he has to be to be considered human. Superman is who he is. Superman is just another name for Kal-El but the way he thinks and feels, act and is....there is no difference. Clark is a cover, pure and simple. No matter what the writers do to him, no matter what the changes are done via film, television or any other media you cannot make him a dual character like Batman, you cannot give him the Clark persona as real and say that Superman is the act. Its not the nature of the creation. He is an alien from a far away planet sent to Earth by this father to save humanity from itself.....that is all he ever was, all he ever is and all he ever will be. The rest is just fancy and sometimes convoluted window dressing.

As for Lois, you are reading the character incorrectly. Her falling in love with Superman isn't about shallowness its about meeting that one person who makes you go against the grain. The one person who effects you in such away that you act uncharacteristically. Lois is tough as nails and never gave Clark the time of day because he wasn't up to her caliber, he wasn't in her same league and she knew it. Superman made her act in a way that was so confusing she actually allowed herself to be smitten. Its about the chemistry there. Clark isn't schizophrenic just that talented of an actor and I think in a way he sees what Lois wants and know to act to opposite to keep his closest ally but also the closest one to reveal him because he fears to further her career she would in an instant at bay.

What you have to understand is Kal-El wants to be Clark and is more comfortable in that zone....he wants Lois to love Clark because that who he WANTS to be......he is constantly dealing with the fact that its not who he is. That is the key to understanding the character....a God who wants to be mortal.


Ah, you're getting at the appeal of the character but missing it completely. Kal-El is a god from another world, but he was brought up with human values, in a human home and with the love of and for humans. No matter where he is from (nature), it is how he was raised that are the greatest influences on his personality (nurture). That's what's appealing about Smallville and the Byrne reboot - they recognize that this is far more logical for this displaced alien to identify with humans rather than to think of himself as Kryptonian who is somehow above and apart from humans. That is why Superman yearns to be human, to fit in better with the people he loves. But this is also why he can't NOT be Superman - his upbringing forces him to realize that because he CAN help, he MUST.

Obviously we have very different views of the character, and your view carried Superman through 50 years of comics and the movie that we all love from the '80s. But I feel that my view is more realistic and makes the character more contemporary and thus more appealing to modern audiences. Obviously Bryan Singer doesn't agree, but the Smallville creators do. And since they've had to sustain the character through 176 hours of story, rather than just 2, they went for the more complex version.

nash
03-12-2008, 09:09 PM
I love superman :chew

The Mike
03-12-2008, 09:12 PM
See I see the nurture role is the reason that he accepts his Legacy not the reason for it. He is a Kryptonian that lives amongst men but its the nurture that makes him want to be human because he wishes that he could just be Clark but its also this nurture that makes him realize that he HAS TO BE Superman, its his higher calling. Its that nurture that stops him from easily ruling the Earth with his powers because he cares for humanity maybe more than the humans do in his universe and that makes him more humane but also more alien than anything....

I think Smallville started out on this path just extending his angst and making the struggle to realize his Legacy that much more capitvating instead of just a blip on his history but they have gone severely left and not brought it to its natural conclusion making the show appear more campy.

I love this character and the films from the 70s and 80s were great but still didn't capture the character as I read it. Nothing has in reality....to me Smallville and SR both didn't take advantages of the source materials already proven and written and just update them but instead felt the self indulgent need to rewrite them for the simple purpose to do so.

OSCORP
03-12-2008, 09:12 PM
I love superman :chew

Yeah same....damn this turned into a nerdfest fast.

The Mike
03-12-2008, 09:17 PM
If loving Superman and having some really interesting and engaging conversation about the Man of Steel is nerdy then hand me my glasses. :rock

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Yea, people are always saying how complex the Marvel characters are - but Superman and Batman are really the two most ++++ed-up dudes in comics.

Entropy
03-12-2008, 10:00 PM
I think both of you agree that Kal-El wants to be Clark.

This is how I tend to view it.
Superman, a god that wants to be human.
Batman, a human that wants to be a god.
and Spiderman in between with one foot in each of those worlds.

Bruce Wayne is who he is by birth, Batman is really who he is. Superman/Kal-El is again who he is by birth, Clark is who he really is. I think though that Clark's identities are more integrated than Batman's, though the Lois triangle makes it a bit more complex for him. At the end of the day Batman doesn't really care about love and having a relationship.

I think the 'Kill Bill' Clark Kent is Superman's commentary on the human race concept is an interesting take on the character but I prefer the emphasizing of his "humanity" trumping his godliness rather than godliness trumping humanity, nurture vs nature as Dave pointed out.

The struggle between what you want to be and what you are is what makes these characters interesting and so similar, two sides of the same coin.

Darth Caedus
03-12-2008, 10:04 PM
Yea, people are always saying how complex the Marvel characters are - but Superman and Batman are really the two most ++++ed-up dudes in comics.

:lecture :lecture Hell yea, batman is one messed up dude (which batman begins didn't really show, but that's another thread) and superman is quite the emotional roller coaster.

I can see the points that Kal-El is a god from krypton and clark is the disguise. he is ALWAYS Kal-El, but he puts on clark to assimilate with humans.

BUT, I can also see the points that SUPERMAN is Kal-El, and Clark is the Kent's son from Smallville, Kansas. he is BOTH Kal-El and Clark because he was a kryptonian raised on Earthly values and morals.



As for Lois, you are reading the character incorrectly. Her falling in love with Superman isn't about shallowness its about meeting that one person who makes you go against the grain. The one person who effects you in such away that you act uncharacteristically. Lois is tough as nails and never gave Clark the time of day because he wasn't up to her caliber, he wasn't in her same league and she knew it. Superman made her act in a way that was so confusing she actually allowed herself to be smitten. Its about the chemistry there. Clark isn't schizophrenic just that talented of an actor and I think in a way he sees what Lois wants and know to act to opposite to keep his closest ally but also the closest one to reveal him because he fears to further her career she would in an instant at bay.
What you have to understand is Kal-El wants to be Clark and is more comfortable in that zone....he wants Lois to love Clark because that who he WANTS to be......he is constantly dealing with the fact that its not who he is. That is the key to understanding the character....a God who wants to be mortal.

I can totally agree with that my friend.

rw23
03-12-2008, 10:05 PM
I rather enjoyed this nerdfest! And i'm with ya Nash, I love Superman! :D

Darth Caedus
03-12-2008, 10:06 PM
I think both of you agree that Kal-El wants to be Clark.

This is how I tend to view it.
Superman, a god that wants to be human.
Batman, a human that wants to be a god.
and Spiderman in between with one foot in each of those worlds.

Bruce Wayne is who he is by birth, Batman is really who he is. Superman/Kal-El is again who he is by birth, Clark is who he really is. I think though that Clark's identities are more integrated than Batman's, though the Lois triangle makes it a bit more complex for him. At the end of the day Batman doesn't really care about love and having a relationship.

I think the 'Kill Bill' Clark Kent is Superman's commentary on the human race concept is an interesting take on the character but I prefer the emphasizing of his "humanity" trumping his godliness rather than godliness trumping humanity, nurture vs nature as Dave pointed out.

The struggle between what you want to be and what you are is what makes these characters interesting and so similar, two sides of the same coin.

Actually for Batman, there is no bruce wayne. The moment his parent's were murdered, be became batman. he, in that instant, because the person who criminals would fear in gotham. If you think about it, he's a little crazy too.

Alright, no more nerdy stuff, I gotta study.

Entropy
03-12-2008, 10:20 PM
Actually for Batman, there is no bruce wayne. The moment his parent's were murdered, be became batman. he, in that instant, because the person who criminals would fear in gotham. If you think about it, he's a little crazy too.

I see the point but still think Bruce needed some experience and thought to become Batman, it was more a gradual process of abandoning Bruce, the frail human parts of himself rather than an instant thing. Losing oneself, or finding oneself, depending on how you look at it, from studying psychology, generally takes a little while.

And Itchi the Killer is my favorite super crazy tormented Batman, though I really like the FU Frank Miller Batman even though it lacks much of the heroic characterization and rubs many the wrong way.

Darklord Dave
03-12-2008, 11:22 PM
Actually for Batman, there is no bruce wayne. The moment his parent's were murdered, be became batman. he, in that instant, because the person who criminals would fear in gotham. If you think about it, he's a little crazy too.

Alright, no more nerdy stuff, I gotta study.

I think Bruce is more complex than that - Nolan manages to show the evolution. He doesn't have his ephiphany until Rachel tells him that there is no way to solve the problem of crime and corruption in Gotham. That's when he goes on a walkabout spirit quest to find the Bat within. He sacrifices Bruce Wayne for his mission - Bruce as he's been must die so the Bat can live.

Batman must become more than human to accomplish his mission, and Kal-El has a mission BECAUSE he's more than human.

Darth Caedus
03-13-2008, 01:03 AM
Batman must become more than human to accomplish his mission, and Kal-El has a mission BECAUSE he's more than human.

I like that.

The Mike
03-13-2008, 08:52 AM
Ahhh....Bring in Batman into this mix.

This is how I read Bats, he has a duality one that is a need but not a desire. Bruce doesn't want to be Bruce, he wants to be Batman at all times. He made that conscious decision early in his life and Batman was the natural means to the end he was looking for. Unfortunately he realizes to keep his resources there and keep his "family" safe he has to assume the role of Bruce Wayne and in order to make it believable he has to be "happy go-lucky" this is a role that many writers neglect. I think he actually loathes the Bruce Wayne identity because he knows its fake and act and in reality a waste of time.

Superman wants passionately to be Clark but cannot simply by birth.

Its not that Batman wants to be a God its that he want to transsend his lot in life due to tragedy. I don't think he wants the divine but he wants to eternally punish crime for what was done to him. Batman's life has been riddled with it I feel making his descent and comfort in the shadows that much easier.

Superman wants to "cure" crime because I think in his mind he feels that if the world is peaceful and safe then he can continue to "be" Clark because there is no need for Superman.

Both have very selfish reasons for doing what they do. Marvel has some really complex characters but DC has in some cases unintentionally made their characters that way as well. Superman and Batman have been mentioned but then you have Diana who deals with the fact she is a Goddess amongst Mortals, Flash deals with the pressures and the effects of Legacy, GL deals with the idea of righteousness....etc, etc...

Entropy
03-13-2008, 04:31 PM
Really good points, especially the punish vs cure crime bit.

I think though that Batman would trade places with Supes in a NY minute, and perhaps Kal-El would trade with Bruce to some extent to live a simple human life without the responsibility of his birthright. The choosing to become a crime fighter vs having the responsibility to be a crime fighter is a very interesting dynamic.

carbo-fation
03-13-2008, 04:36 PM
Batman must become more than human to accomplish his mission, and Kal-El has a mission BECAUSE he's more than human.

Well said, Dave! Quite deep...:google :D

lerath666
03-13-2008, 04:50 PM
I like Superman REturn for what it was, a Sequel to the Reeve Movies. But it also is a good one to END that legacy. Move on.

Hell, Routh was good, but I'd like to see Welling in the suit. Smallville FTW.
Yes, the show has it's flaws, but overdoing Lex luther as a tophat wearing, handlebar mustache twirling badguy who's life's dream is to tie up lois and leave her on traintracks has gotten old( which is how they've done him in ALL the movies IMHO). Can we have some supervillans this time pleasre?

Darklord Dave
03-13-2008, 05:54 PM
I like Superman REturn for what it was, a Sequel to the Reeve Movies. But it also is a good one to END that legacy. Move on.

Hell, Routh was good, but I'd like to see Welling in the suit. Smallville FTW.
Yes, the show has it's flaws, but overdoing Lex luther as a tophat wearing, handlebar mustache twirling badguy who's life's dream is to tie up lois and leave her on traintracks has gotten old( which is how they've done him in ALL the movies IMHO). Can we have some supervillans this time pleasre?

This would be ideal for me - a big budget "Clark moves to Metropolis and takes on the mantel" movie. They explain why Lex and others don't recognize him without the glasses (and I wouldn't have a problem with a Kryptonian induced world brain wash, makes more sense than a super amnesia kiss). Have Brainiac take on his true form to battle the suited Supes, have Zod take over Lex again but with some Kryptonian tech to help him - could be an awesome movie. Welling would need to buff up again - he's kind of let himself go since the early days.

OSCORP
03-13-2008, 07:05 PM
Routh IS now superman, if welling went in to the suit it would be a real downer for me.Routh was sent by the gods!

piccolodaimaoh
03-13-2008, 08:56 PM
This would be ideal for me - a big budget "Clark moves to Metropolis and takes on the mantel" movie. They explain why Lex and others don't recognize him without the glasses (and I wouldn't have a problem with a Kryptonian induced world brain wash, makes more sense than a super amnesia kiss). Have Brainiac take on his true form to battle the suited Supes, have Zod take over Lex again but with some Kryptonian tech to help him - could be an awesome movie. Welling would need to buff up again - he's kind of let himself go since the early days.

You know, I had a similar idea last year after Smallville introduced Green Arrow, one of the best characters of that series. I think the current cast for Smallville is quite good and Welling looks a little more the part than Routh.
Nothing against Routh but he is a little on the thin side in my opinion. I would love a Smallville film, but with that being said I am not ready to give up on the Routh series. If they can do a sequel like Spider-Man 2 or X2 than they would be able to clearly say "We have a franchise."

There were definite problems with Superman Returns but nothing that a little tweaking can't fix. On Smallville I just want to see the day when Smallville turns the corner and Clark becomes the hero he is supposed to be. With Rosenbaum and Kreuk leaving the series I would like them to go out in a bang.

lerath666
03-13-2008, 09:53 PM
Personaly, I'd like to see them just end the smallvie series, and make a metropolis series, with him in the suit :D

Darth Caedus
03-14-2008, 07:48 AM
Personaly, I'd like to see them just end the smallvie series, and make a metropolis series, with him in the suit :D

WOW, this thread really got derailed by smallville didn't it...damn that show....

ANYWAY, I would like to see brainiac or doomsday as the main villan for MoS. We already had Zod, would like to see someone else. Did anyone read JJ Abrams script for Superman? I though it was halfway decent with the villans (everything else would iffy), but the villans and actions were great. If anybody wants it, let me know.

OSCORP
03-14-2008, 10:38 AM
Routh interview about halfway through


http://cdn4.libsyn.com/fanboyradio/fbr_455.mp3

The Mike
06-21-2008, 08:53 PM
New Sequel Rumors:

New Love for Superman?

Source: ZeeNews.com

Rumor has it there will be a new love in Superman's life for the sequel to Superman Returns. According to sources, one Priyanka Chopra is likely to play an Indian scientist and love interest in the upcoming sequel. It seems the director sought her out and judged her work, as the filmakers had been in search of an Indian face for a scientist. Allegedly, she has been offered the role, though no official word has been released.

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/movies/images/priyanka-chopra-photo.jpg

tomandshell
06-21-2008, 09:10 PM
With Rosenbaum and Kreuk leaving the series I would like them to go out in a bang.

With the show creators/producers leaving along with two of the three lead actors, I think it's safe to say that this show will be going out with anything but a bang.

:sick

Darth Caedus
06-22-2008, 12:59 PM
New Sequel Rumors:

New Love for Superman?

Source: ZeeNews.com

Rumor has it there will be a new love in Superman's life for the sequel to Superman Returns. According to sources, one Priyanka Chopra is likely to play an Indian scientist and love interest in the upcoming sequel. It seems the director sought her out and judged her work, as the filmakers had been in search of an Indian face for a scientist. Allegedly, she has been offered the role, though no official word has been released.

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/movies/images/priyanka-chopra-photo.jpg


DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB

The only love interest for superman is lois, anything else is retarded

The Mike
06-22-2008, 01:03 PM
With Singer at the helm, nothing surprises me now. I've come to grips that this franchise will need a Batman and Robin styled failure until its buried for a bit and then revived five years from now really well done. Too bad though since Routh for me IS the new Superman.

carbo-fation
06-22-2008, 02:48 PM
While I like Priyanka, I think Singer should stay faithful to the comics and not ruin the Superman franchise anymore than it already is.

gdb
06-22-2008, 03:05 PM
You need a new love interest to get that love triangle thing going and for Lois to get jealous. My pick would be Wonder Woman but whatever.

EVILFACE
06-22-2008, 03:06 PM
With Singer at the helm, nothing surprises me now. I've come to grips that this franchise will need a Batman and Robin styled failure until its buried for a bit and then revived five years from now really well done. Too bad though since Routh for me IS the new Superman.

You never saw the POS that was The Quest For Peace????

TheObsoleteMan
06-22-2008, 03:15 PM
I miss the good old days when Superman would just save people and wink at the camera.

The Mike
06-22-2008, 03:34 PM
You never saw the POS that was The Quest For Peace????

Yeah. Superman III was a real turd as well. The thing is Superman Returns failed to meet expectations and The Man of Steel looks to be heading down that route as well. :(

The Mike
06-22-2008, 03:35 PM
Not to mention Batman and Robin actually lost the studio money...not even modest or horrid returns. I think it's gonna take one of those

Darklord Dave
06-22-2008, 05:30 PM
I have a hard time believing this rumor. Last anything was reported there wasn't even a script, so casting couldn't be an issue yet. I think some actors' publicists start these kind of things just to get some ink for their unknown clients.

OSCORP
06-22-2008, 06:05 PM
I agree people are jumping the gun here.

Entropy
06-22-2008, 06:19 PM
The studio better take their time with this one. If it's as poorly written as Superman Returns then they're in trouble.

djklambake
06-22-2008, 07:03 PM
There are so many things I wanna say about Supes Returns and the potential sequel, but it requires a lot of swearing.

How many other villains does the Man of Steel have who aren't Lex Luthor?!

And if you're gonna write a sequel, how on god's green earth are you gonna answer the "his weakness is kryptonite, but he lifted up an entire island made of the stuff and hurled it into space and then took a nap," conundrum?

Don't get me started on Superboy. That's a load of garbage.

The sequel will probably suck.

I'll stick to the upcoming Green Lantern movie. That looks like it's being handled well.

Shai
06-22-2008, 07:09 PM
The superman movie franchise is dead ATM....Last movie was craptacular.In fact only good supes movies that were good was 1-2 who were made 30 years ago....:google

Anyone sayin supes Return was good has no tastes in movies and shouldnt talk to me.

Agent23
06-22-2008, 07:14 PM
Anyone sayin supes Return was good has no tastes in movies and shouldnt talk to me.

:lol :lol :lol

Superman Returns was a good movie. So, I'll just put you on ignore now and get it over with.

Just kidding. I never even saw Superman Returns. So, we can still talk.

:D

vader70450
06-22-2008, 07:24 PM
Supes returns sucked balls!!!!! Come on man...Kumar was in it...need I say more??
:lecture:lecture:lecture:lecture

djklambake
06-22-2008, 07:29 PM
Supes returns sucked balls!!!!! Come on man...Kumar was in it...need I say more??
:lecture:lecture:lecture:lecture

Oh god, that's right... and he wasn't even BAKED!!!! Just another way we all got gypped by SR.

dragonsleeper
06-23-2008, 03:04 AM
Superman Returns took too many liberties with the superman mythos.. I want Doomsday on MOS though for the sheer purpose of seeing Supes beating down on some monstrous creature, because it has not yet been done on silver screen

carbo-fation
06-23-2008, 03:31 AM
Superman Returns was a great movie. Much better than most Marvel movies except SM2 and Iron Man.:lecture

Darth Caedus
06-23-2008, 08:37 AM
Superman Returns took too many liberties with the superman mythos.. I want Doomsday on MOS though for the sheer purpose of seeing Supes beating down on some monstrous creature, because it has not yet been done on silver screen

My only problems with SR is that it was a rehash of the original. Granted, I think they wanted to reintroduce some elements of the Supes mythos to this generation, I don't think it was necessary. I mean honestly, who doesn't know that superman is from krypton ???

Hopefully, now with that all out of the way, we can get a good Supes flick.

Darth Caedus
06-23-2008, 08:44 AM
There are so many things I wanna say about Supes Returns and the potential sequel, but it requires a lot of swearing.

How many other villains does the Man of Steel have who aren't Lex Luthor?!

And if you're gonna write a sequel, how on god's green earth are you gonna answer the "his weakness is kryptonite, but he lifted up an entire island made of the stuff and hurled it into space and then took a nap," conundrum?

Don't get me started on Superboy. That's a load of garbage.

The sequel will probably suck.

I'll stick to the upcoming Green Lantern movie. That looks like it's being handled well.

Supes has plenty of villans:

Darkseid, Brainac, Bizarro, Mr. Myxthpix (can never spell it), Toyman, Metallo, ZOD, Parasite, Mongul, Solomun Grundy

carbo-fation
06-23-2008, 08:49 AM
Singer has already stated in past interviews that he will bring a more powerful adversary for the next Superman movie. Let's just hope it's not Zod!

Darth Caedus
06-23-2008, 08:52 AM
Singer has already stated in past interviews that he will bring a more powerful adversary for the next Superman movie. Let's just hope it's not Zod!

It's going to be Brainac, only possibly consideration. They could even tie in his search for krypton from S:Returns into the next film. Plus, tie in his legacy with his "son" too. It would all fit together.

carbo-fation
06-23-2008, 08:54 AM
That would be nice! I hope they do some forshadowing for Darkseid as well.

The Josh
06-23-2008, 09:08 AM
Anyone sayin supes Return was good has no tastes in movies and shouldnt talk to me.

I thought it was a good movie. I enjoyed it anyways. Not that I give a darn if you think I have good tastes in movies or not. I could only be so lucky if we never talked to each other. :)

Darth Caedus
06-23-2008, 09:11 AM
That would be nice! I hope they do some forshadowing for Darkseid as well.

I think that's too hard for live action. Leave the REALLY alien stuff to animation. In all honesty, he would probably look like The Thing from the F4 movies, and I thought he looked terrible. It's just too hard to make it look real. LOVED what they did with Darkseid on Supes Animated and Justice league.

carbo-fation
06-23-2008, 09:19 AM
I thought it was a good movie. I enjoyed it anyways. Not that I give a darn if you think I have good tastes in movies or not. I could only be so lucky if we never talked to each other. :)

Man, somebody needs a time out!:monkey1


I think that's too hard for live action. Leave the REALLY alien stuff to animation. In all honesty, he would probably look like The Thing from the F4 movies, and I thought he looked terrible. It's just too hard to make it look real. LOVED what they did with Darkseid on Supes Animated and Justice league.

Well, if the animation is anything like in Superman Returns, then anything is possible. The FF4 animation left much to be desired. But Superman does need a major villain besides Brainiac. And as far as comics go, Darkseid was his major nemesis.

The Josh
06-23-2008, 09:23 AM
Man, somebody needs a time out!:monkey1

Nah I'm good thnx. :)

EVILFACE
06-23-2008, 10:03 AM
It was good, but too dark in spots. Supes getting his ass kicked like he did was too much for a Superman flick. The FX were great and there were several heroic parts. But the realestate wanting Lex was already done. Bring on Darkseid!!!!

Superman should be a family type movie while Batman should be the dark material.

hairlesswookiee
06-23-2008, 11:14 AM
The superman movie franchise is dead ATM....Last movie was craptacular.In fact only good supes movies that were good was 1-2 who were made 30 years ago....:google

Anyone sayin supes Return was good has no tastes in movies and shouldnt talk to me.

i agree with you Shai!!! i got bashed like a MOFO when i said this when the movie debuted.

Entropy
06-23-2008, 04:51 PM
Superman Returns is simply a poorly written story. It just is.

Now there are certainly those who don't expect much from popcorn fare, they just want to see a few cool action scenes strung together with the standard good guy defeats bad guy stuff tacked on and that's okay I suppose. Personally I need more and I don't think a logical story that makes sense is too much to expect.

Bat Eater
06-23-2008, 05:19 PM
The superman movie franchise is dead ATM....Last movie was craptacular.In fact only good supes movies that were good was 1-2 who were made 30 years ago....:google

Anyone sayin supes Return was good has no tastes in movies and shouldnt talk to me.

amen brotha

Darklord Dave
06-23-2008, 06:01 PM
I don't think it's necessarily poorly written. But it was a take on the character that was viable 30 years ago - not so much now.

I'd like a reboot (as should have been done before SR), but a continuation in that milieu will be okay too, as long as it isn't just a rehash.

I do think that Spidey 1 & 2, Iron Man, X-Men and X2 and even Incredible Hulk are all better films and Batman Begins is far superior to SR. That's the yardstick now and Superman is the most important superhero and must be treated with the proper respect.

The Mike
06-23-2008, 07:37 PM
Brandon Routh Faces 'Fear Itself'

By Emily Christianson, Hollywood.com Staff

HW: Is Justice League going to come out before the next Superman?
BR: Oh, I think it seems as though that's not happening, it's on the back burner right now so it's just Man of Steel now.

HW: When are you doing the next Superman? It's taking a long time.
BR: I know, they're busy writing a script and then I trust we'll be starting next year, early next year. That's my timeline anyway.

piccolodaimaoh
06-23-2008, 11:15 PM
I don't think it's necessarily poorly written. But it was a take on the character that was viable 30 years ago - not so much now.

I'd like a reboot (as should have been done before SR), but a continuation in that milieu will be okay too, as long as it isn't just a rehash.

I do think that Spidey 1 & 2, Iron Man, X-Men and X2 and even Incredible Hulk are all better films and Batman Begins is far superior to SR. That's the yardstick now and Superman is the most important superhero and must be treated with the proper respect.

:lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture

Dave I could not have said it better myself. It is ashame that Superman's first foray back into films was less than spectacular. I won't say that Superman Returns was bad, but with the job Bruce Timm and the guys at Warner Bros. animation has been able to do I expected more. Superman Doomsday was better than Superman Returns IMHO.
I would love to see Darkseid in a Superman film but to me Darkseid is Supes' greatest villain and as such deserves the greatest send off. How big of a let down would it be if Darkseid is in the next film and the followup is Metallo? Darkseid has to be the 3rd or 4th film down the line for me unless he would be in his own trilogy with Supes finally beating him once and for all kind of like the last episode of Superman:TAS.
If they really did it right I would be overwelmed with joy to see Brainiac as the main villain in the next film. Hell, they could even use Luthor as a secondary villain that Brainiac betrays opening it up for Lex to assist Supes in defeating Brainiac.
Superman is one of the greatest characters in American literature and demands a movie of equal greatness. If not, we always have Richard Donner's Superman I and II...

The Mike
06-23-2008, 11:23 PM
I have too much respect and love for the character to simply throw my hands up and say at least there is a 30 year old film to remember it by. Hopefully Warner Bros/DC Comics will look at the successes of The Batman Franchise and Iron Man and take a radical rewriting of the Superman films.

devlinboy
06-23-2008, 11:38 PM
supes vs lex and braniac, braniac turns on lex and supes saves the day. lex hates supes even more. i just wrote SR2

Bodie The Cursed
06-23-2008, 11:41 PM
Hioooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

devlinboy
06-23-2008, 11:54 PM
Hioooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

EXACTLY HIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:flag

piccolodaimaoh
06-24-2008, 12:19 AM
supes vs lex and braniac, braniac turns on lex and supes saves the day. lex hates supes even more. i just wrote SR2

Sounds a lot like an episode of Superman The Animated Series which means it would be awesome!!

The Mike
06-27-2008, 07:06 PM
Millar is out hunting for the project again:

June 26, 2008: Mark Millar's Plans for New Superman Movie

Writer Mark Millar approached Warner Bros. months ago about his idea for a new Superman movie, but the WB, while impressed with Millar's pitch, reportedly declined his offer because he was too closely associated with Marvel Comics.

Now, with his comic book "Wanted" set to be a huge Hollywood hit, Millar is once again setting his sights on the Man of Steel according to an interview with the Daily Record in the U.K.

While he is an executive producer on Wanted, he is a full producer on his next movie Kick-Ass. He claims there are some A-list names involved in the film about an ordinary boy who becomes a superhero.

But Mark's big dream is making a Superman movie.

He said: "Since I was a kid I've always wanted to reinvent Superman for the 21st century.

"I've been planning this my entire life. I've got my director and producer set up, and it'll be 2011. This is how far ahead you have to think.

"The Superman brand is toxic after that last movie lost $200million, but in 2011 we're hoping to restart it.

"Sadly I can't say who the director is, but we may make it official by Christmas.

"But fingers crossed it could work out, that would be my lifetime's dream."

You can read the complete interview at the Daily Record website.

Realizing that this interview would be picked up by Superman fans, Millar posted the following message on his personal forum today...

"PS: That Superman news is interesting, isn't it? In the interests of clarity (because I'm sure this will be picked up somewhere) a very well known American action director heard about my love of Superman, approached my and asked me to team up with he and his producer to make a pitch for this. We've been talking for several weeks now and, if this is going to happen, we'll know by Christmas. He has huge pull at WB so fingers crossed. But this is nothing more than a huge US name pulling me into his fold and making me part of a package."

Thanks to Eli Gutierrez for the lead on this story.

Millar is usually known for shooting off his mouth before having anything set in stone so take it with a grain of salt but its interesting that with Singer and company trying to get the Man of Steel on track that others are making pitches to get rid of Singer's vision all together.

Oh....and before you start in with "Singer is already signed...they said they trust in him..." blah blah blah...remember its a movie studio. They tow the Status Quo line until something changes, its good business.

djklambake
06-27-2008, 07:12 PM
Millar is out hunting for the project again:

June 26, 2008: Mark Millar's Plans for New Superman Movie

Writer Mark Millar approached Warner Bros. months ago about his idea for a new Superman movie, but the WB, while impressed with Millar's pitch, reportedly declined his offer because he was too closely associated with Marvel Comics.

Now, with his comic book "Wanted" set to be a huge Hollywood hit, Millar is once again setting his sights on the Man of Steel according to an interview with the Daily Record in the U.K.

While he is an executive producer on Wanted, he is a full producer on his next movie Kick-Ass. He claims there are some A-list names involved in the film about an ordinary boy who becomes a superhero.

But Mark's big dream is making a Superman movie.

He said: "Since I was a kid I've always wanted to reinvent Superman for the 21st century.

"I've been planning this my entire life. I've got my director and producer set up, and it'll be 2011. This is how far ahead you have to think.

"The Superman brand is toxic after that last movie lost $200million, but in 2011 we're hoping to restart it.

"Sadly I can't say who the director is, but we may make it official by Christmas.

"But fingers crossed it could work out, that would be my lifetime's dream."

You can read the complete interview at the Daily Record website.

Realizing that this interview would be picked up by Superman fans, Millar posted the following message on his personal forum today...

"PS: That Superman news is interesting, isn't it? In the interests of clarity (because I'm sure this will be picked up somewhere) a very well known American action director heard about my love of Superman, approached my and asked me to team up with he and his producer to make a pitch for this. We've been talking for several weeks now and, if this is going to happen, we'll know by Christmas. He has huge pull at WB so fingers crossed. But this is nothing more than a huge US name pulling me into his fold and making me part of a package."

Thanks to Eli Gutierrez for the lead on this story.

Millar is usually known for shooting off his mouth before having anything set in stone so take it with a grain of salt but its interesting that with Singer and company trying to get the Man of Steel on track that others are making pitches to get rid of Singer's vision all together.

Oh....and before you start in with "Singer is already signed...they said they trust in him..." blah blah blah...remember its a movie studio. They tow the Status Quo line until something changes, its good business.

God willing... they sure effed up the last one. Millar's the goods...

Entropy
06-27-2008, 07:20 PM
I trust Millar way more than Singer at this point.

REBOOT please.

The Mike
06-27-2008, 07:25 PM
Millar is an excellent Superman writer, he has shown that time and time again. He brings with him though a lot of baggage though...he is a blowhard in every sense of the word and many people say that had more to do with The WB passing on his treatment more than his connection with Marvel. He wants to show a lot of Krypton and the environment as well as he is firm on keeping Superman traditional which means the costume will look more like Reeve's Superman than Singer's.

Should be interesting if Wanted does as well as Millar has been say it would for months now, if DC and WB give him a real second look. Apparent he has someone big to direct along with him my fear is that they'll recast Routh.

El Roranous
06-27-2008, 07:29 PM
Superman really does need a reboot. I know I will be jumped for saying this but Superman the character is just boring and outdated. He needs more to survive in our day. All he ever does is.... nothing. No real emotion, no real drama going on with him. No real internal demons. He's way too powerful and can do almost anything. Where are the freakin flaws? And don't tell me his flaw is that he doesn't fit in with humans or some bull like that. That's an advantage.

Boring character= a boring ass movie and that is exactly what we got and exactly what we will get again. :lol

He seems like he could hang out with Captain Faramir... and you know how much fun that would be. :lol

IrishJedi
06-27-2008, 07:36 PM
Millar is an overrated ego-maniac.

pjam
06-27-2008, 08:04 PM
Millar is wrong for this project and WB knows it. So is Singer, as a Writer. As a Director he is fine, but I don't know if he'll be able to BS his way in to a Sequel either. WB will consider all options and most likely hire an A List Writer before they do anything.

And the reason "Wanted" is successful is because of Timur's vision of it, not Millar's.

Darklord Dave
06-27-2008, 09:09 PM
Warner's has no idea how to handle the property - they had Abrams script and were trying to cut the budget down when Singer came in with his pitch. It has the beauty of being done before and had a proven comics to screen director attached. No studio executive ever got fired for green lighting something that isn't original but has worked before.

I would have vastly preferred Abrams script to SR, even with Lex as an alien CIA agent (1st draft).

Millar talking about what he wants to do and claiming to have an important director attached is exactly the wrong thing to do and can only piss off Warners.

As for Superman being a boring character - I would completely and unequivocally disagree. A god who wants nothing more than to fit into human society and be able to love and be loved for himself is a fascinating character. Since the 80s comics reboot, he's developed more and more facets to explore.

Buttmunch
06-27-2008, 10:02 PM
I think the should do to Superman what they did with Batman, make him realistic. He crashlands here on Earth as a baby, grows up in Smallville, gets a job as a reporter, and retires as an old man. They call him Superman because he was able to leave Smallville. :D

Ven
06-27-2008, 10:10 PM
As for Superman being a boring character - I would completely and unequivocally disagree. A god who wants nothing more than to fit into human society and be able to love and be loved for himself is a fascinating character. Since the 80s comics reboot, he's developed more and more facets to explore.

exactly.. I agree with dave completely.. but wow wow wow!! wait a minute I felt so much emotion from singer's movie.. especially when he finds out he doesn't fit in society any more and they don't need him... and marlon brando's voice over was amazing.. the thing I did hate was the lack of a proper villian.

IrishJedi
06-27-2008, 10:12 PM
Millar talking about what he wants to do and claiming to have an important director attached is exactly the wrong thing to do and can only piss off Warners.But that's so Mark Millar.



As for Superman being a boring character - I would completely and unequivocally disagree. A god who wants nothing more than to fit into human society and be able to love and be loved for himself is a fascinating character. Since the 80s comics reboot, he's developed more and more facets to explore.
Agreed. :lecture

Ven
06-27-2008, 10:13 PM
Agreed. :lecture

and supe's anger issues too!

nash
06-27-2008, 10:24 PM
Superman really does need a reboot. I know I will be jumped for saying this but Superman the character is just boring and outdated. He needs more to survive in our day. All he ever does is.... nothing. No real emotion, no real drama going on with him. No real internal demons. He's way too powerful and can do almost anything. Where are the freakin flaws? And don't tell me his flaw is that he doesn't fit in with humans or some bull like that. That's an advantage.

Boring character= a boring ass movie and that is exactly what we got and exactly what we will get again. :lol

He seems like he could hang out with Captain Faramir... and you know how much fun that would be. :lol

:rotfl:rotfl:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleye s::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

El Roranous
06-28-2008, 07:23 AM
Seriously, his flaw is that he doesn't fit in? That's the best it gets? And all the while he is such a dork without a real personality as Clark. Then he just takes of the glasses and no one realizes it's the other guy. :rotfl

He's an antiquated super hero. He is outdated and I totally predict that in the future every generation will care less and less about this character unless they actually develop him and finally let him evolve into something more than a pure cut and dry church going super hero.

Superman is a clear example of why Marvel is owning DC in almost every aspect.

IrishJedi
06-28-2008, 08:23 AM
Oh boy.

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

El Roranous
06-28-2008, 08:26 AM
Oh boy.

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

Just my opinion man. Others I know share it. :D Supreman is a hero for old people or Captain Faramir. :lol

Bodie The Cursed
06-28-2008, 08:28 AM
Superman blows.

nash
06-28-2008, 08:28 AM
Seriously, his flaw is that he doesn't fit in? That's the best it gets? And all the while he is such a dork without a real personality as Clark. Then he just takes of the glasses and no one realizes it's the other guy. :rotfl

He's an antiquated super hero. He is outdated and I totally predict that in the future every generation will care less and less about this character unless they actually develop him and finally let him evolve into something more than a pure cut and dry church going super hero.

Superman is a clear example of why Marvel is owning DC in almost every aspect.


so who in your opinion is the best superhero/comic character? im curious.

Bodie The Cursed
06-28-2008, 08:29 AM
My two favorite comic chars are Conan and The Hulk. Spidey is cool too.

El Roranous
06-28-2008, 08:31 AM
Superman blows.

Plus his outfit is super gay. :lol

IrishJedi
06-28-2008, 08:31 AM
High School happens.

King Darkness
06-28-2008, 08:33 AM
Rory hates children and Superman.

:lecture

Bodie The Cursed
06-28-2008, 08:33 AM
Plus his outfit is super gay. :lol

Very gay..

Plus the glasses thing.. I mean c'mon..

Sums up why I've always disliked DC..

nash
06-28-2008, 08:35 AM
Rory hates children and Superman.

:lecture

and crowds :rotfl:lol

El Roranous
06-28-2008, 09:02 AM
:lol:lol:lol

See... all these things are connected. Superman is a very family oriented super hero. He never does anything bad or says anything exciting to me. Which is very connected to kids and innocence, which is a very unrealistic trait for an adult. He is simply too pure and annoying. The whole character seems unintelligent because he never grows or changes.

I gained so much respect for Captain America when he did what he thought was right during the Civil War and turned his back on Shield and our government. That took balls. Before that I always thought he was just a simple goody two shoes. Boring. :lecture

carbo-fation
06-28-2008, 09:14 AM
My two favorite comic chars are Conan and The Hulk.

And you call Superman boring?:google

pjam
06-28-2008, 11:13 AM
And you call Superman boring?:google

:rotfl

Superman is an All American good guy with "straight as an arrow" moral values, all true, but that doesn't mean he is boring. I have to agree with DarklordDave and others that being an outcast in a cynical world, in effect an Adopted son who can't seem to fit in all the while devoting himself to helping others as he was destined to by his Father is a great character background to work with. He is a good guy Alien defending the human race from itself and others, nothing boring about that...

But I get your point, the problem is the Storyline that was used for SR was indeed a bit boring and a total rehash of Supes the Movie. Same plotline and characters, nothing Original about it really, except the kid which was unnecessary and distracting. The Character itself can be placed in a multitude of situations where the storyline can be very exciting. It is the Writers/Studios job to tap into that and unfortunately what we got was "Your Mommie's Superman" instead of a kick ass Super Hero.

Believe me there is plenty to work with here.

carbo-fation
06-28-2008, 11:19 AM
Well put, Pjam! I agree wholeheartedly. Superman can be a great character with the right set of writers.

DarkArtist81
06-28-2008, 11:38 AM
Well put, Pjam! I agree wholeheartedly. Superman can be a great character with the right set of writers.

I totally agree as well. Superman is a great character in the hands of a talented team. It's not just his lonely nature or his immense responsibility. It's the fact that despite that he could OWN the entire planet and nothing could ever stop him... he chooses to be who he is and to give every breath in his body to defend the planet.

Superman just needs a good writer to make him interesting on film again... Which I think that this time they will concentrate harder to do just that.

The Mike
06-28-2008, 11:40 AM
I'll give any film Superman a chance as long as they don't try to give us this ^^^^ again.

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/images/2006/06/tim-burton-superman.jpg

Thank god that never happened.

Bodie The Cursed
06-28-2008, 11:41 AM
And you call Superman boring?:google

Call Conan boring again and he will feed your genitals to the Jackels..

http://www.joejusko.com/new%20paint/imagesapr05/BuscemaJuskoConanSM.jpg

carbo-fation
06-28-2008, 11:45 AM
Call Conan boring again and he will feed your genitals to the Jackels..

http://www.joejusko.com/new%20paint/imagesapr05/BuscemaJuskoConanSM.jpg

Yes, sir!:horror:monkey2

Sun Jian
06-28-2008, 12:04 PM
I like superman not my fav but he is cool....most people dont like kent and why should you? he acts odd because he sees humans as weak and unsure of them self but he is not realy kent he is kalel aka superman and thats when he can be himself...... a real bad guy would be a big help to the movies and lex just needs to die!!!.....

Darth Caedus
06-28-2008, 12:20 PM
I totally agree as well. Superman is a great character in the hands of a talented team. It's not just his lonely nature or his immense responsibility. It's the fact that despite that he could OWN the entire planet and nothing could ever stop him... he chooses to be who he is and to give every breath in his body to defend the planet.

Superman just needs a good writer to make him interesting on film again... Which I think that this time they will concentrate harder to do just that.

Yea, I pretty much agree with that. While supes doesn't have the darker edge that batman has, I think that given the right circumstances and writers, the moral and inner personal conflicts that supes has can be put on screen. While he's an "alien" to the world, that's just an allegory for immigrants and people who don't "fit" in (which is what the creators invisioned when they created him in the 30s).

I just think that it needs the write creative team to put it to good use. While I thought singer did an okay job, he was just rehashing the '77 film. someone needs to change, evolve, and mold the new supes movie to reflect the real world.

Darklord Dave
06-28-2008, 03:04 PM
I've had this argument in other threads but Rorie points out Clark as a wimp makes Superman uninteresting. And I'd agree with that. I vastly prefer the Clark of Smallville, Lois & Clark and the Byrne reboot to how Donner and Singer portrayed him the films.

But the arguments put forth about why Superman is boring show that those making those agruments aren't that familiar with the evolution of the character in the past 30 years.

TheObsoleteMan
06-28-2008, 03:12 PM
I've had this argument in other threads but Rorie points out Clark as a wimp makes Superman uninteresting. And I'd agree with that. I vastly prefer the Clark of Smallville, Lois & Clark and the Byrne reboot to how Donner and Singer portrayed him the films.


George Reeves has always been my favorite live-action portrayal of Clark. He did the best job of making Clark the real person and Superman the disguise.

Entropy
06-28-2008, 11:45 PM
Kingdom Come is my favorite depiction of Superman by far.

Living in exile in his Fortress, pretending it's his Kansas farm. A great blend of both identities. Brilliant characterization.

nash
06-29-2008, 03:16 AM
I've had this argument in other threads but Rorie points out Clark as a wimp makes Superman uninteresting. And I'd agree with that. I vastly prefer the Clark of Smallville, Lois & Clark and the Byrne reboot to how Donner and Singer portrayed him the films.

But the arguments put forth about why Superman is boring show that those making those agruments aren't that familiar with the evolution of the character in the past 30 years.

so youre telling me that Bruce Banner is not a wimp? Why would that persona make Superman uninteresting? It's the yin and yang of the character. One side is a God and the other side the total opposite.

nash
06-29-2008, 03:18 AM
Call Conan boring again and he will feed your genitals to the Jackels..

http://www.joejusko.com/new%20paint/imagesapr05/BuscemaJuskoConanSM.jpg

conan is as boring as Gasol is SOFT. :lol


in a word.... VERY

abstractharmony
06-29-2008, 04:54 AM
OK - required Superman reading :-

Man of Steel (or Birthright if you are a kewl kid)
Whatever happened to the man of Tommorrow
For the Man who has everything
The entire Byrne Superman/Action Comics Run
Red Son & Kingdom Come - for 'alternative' takes on Superman
Action Comics Archive No. 1 - Forget the art, read the stories and then telll me Superman is boring.
All Star Superman
Lex Luthor Man of Steel (for Lex's side of argument)

That's all stuff that is readily available at your local comic store. If you truly believe that Supes is boring an outdated read these.

I could also give you a HUGE list of some back issues from the last 70 years with some of my personal favourites.

Bottom line? If you believe Superman is irrelevant then you are wrong. Plain wrong. We need him as a character now more than ever.

Also now is great time to jump on boardc the Superman monthlies with Johns and Robinson literally starting a 'fresh' run now. The last Action comics issue was brilliant with stunning art by Gary Frank for all of Chris Reeve fans.

Shai
06-29-2008, 05:11 AM
OK - required Superman reading :-

Man of Steel (or Birthright if you are a kewl kid)
Whatever happened to the man of Tommorrow
For the Man who has everything
The entire Byrne Superman/Action Comics Run
Red Son & Kingdom Come - for 'alternative' takes on Superman
Action Comics Archive No. 1 - Forget the art, read the stories and then telll me Superman is boring.
All Star Superman
Lex Luthor Man of Steel (for Lex's side of argument)

That's all stuff that is readily available at your local comic store. If you truly believe that Supes is boring an outdated read these.

I could also give you a HUGE list of some back issues from the last 70 years with some of my personal favourites.

Bottom line? If you believe Superman is irrelevant then you are wrong. Plain wrong. We need him as a character now more than ever.

Also now is great time to jump on boardc the Superman monthlies with Johns and Robinson literally starting a 'fresh' run now. The last Action comics issue was brilliant with stunning art by Gary Frank for all of Chris Reeve fans.

Funny thing Abstracht is the Superman fans of this thread are those who love him from the movies and probably have never followed his changes in the comics.And I agree with the guy sayin Superman in Kingdom come was great.But no one here will make me like that POS that was Superman Returns.

abstractharmony
06-29-2008, 05:17 AM
Funny thing Abstracht is the Superman fans of this thread are those who love him from the movies and probably have never followed his changes in the comics.And I agree with the guy sayin Superman in Kingdom come was great.But no one here will make me like that POS that was Superman Returns.

Superman Returns is indefensible.

The only decent part of that movie, in my opinion, was the shuttle rescue.

Routh was great as Supes. I'd love to see him in the real costume and in a decent script.

nash
06-29-2008, 05:53 AM
I fail to see how superman returns was any worse of a movie than all of the batman movies pre-bale. IMO those were laughable and indefensible but people still like them for some reason. Same goes for the first hulk film, SM3, X3, what else?

abstractharmony
06-29-2008, 06:00 AM
I fail to see how superman returns was any worse of a movie than all of the batman movies pre-bale. IMO those were laughable and indefensible but people still like them for some reason. Same goes for the first hulk film, SM3, X3, what else?

No argument from me there Nash m'man.

Although Clooney made an excellent Bruce Wayne and the first 10 minutes of Batman forever were good stuff.

McHavyck
06-29-2008, 07:58 AM
I fail to see how superman returns was any worse of a movie than all of the batman movies pre-bale. IMO those were laughable and indefensible but people still like them for some reason. Same goes for the first hulk film, SM3, X3, what else?

don't forget Fantastic Four and Ghost Rider.

nash
06-29-2008, 08:03 AM
don't forget Fantastic Four and Ghost Rider.

oh yes, forgot about those. Except for Alba in a skin tight suit.

OSCORP
06-29-2008, 08:06 AM
Why would that persona make Superman uninteresting? It's the yin and yang of the character. One side is a God and the other side the total opposite.


Exactly! I love the clumsy nerdy clark by CR and now Routh.

McHavyck
06-29-2008, 08:08 AM
oh yes, forgot about those. Except for Alba in a skin tight suit.

yes, that part was rather nice.

IrishJedi
06-29-2008, 11:15 AM
I fail to see how superman returns was any worse of a movie than all of the batman movies pre-bale. IMO those were laughable and indefensible but people still like them for some reason. Same goes for the first hulk film, SM3, X3, what else?

:lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture :lecture

JGouse0498
06-29-2008, 11:28 AM
oh yes, forgot about those. Except for Alba in a skin tight suit.

Yeah, except Jessica Alba just needs to not talk in the process... :monkey3

Darth Caedus
06-29-2008, 02:14 PM
Funny thing Abstracht is the Superman fans of this thread are those who love him from the movies and probably have never followed his changes in the comics.And I agree with the guy sayin Superman in Kingdom come was great.But no one here will make me like that POS that was Superman Returns.

I can agree with that, if only because the movies reach more people than the comics. But the movies give the overall theme of who the character is in the comics. I mean, the crisis nurfed his powers and changed him, but his overall character has always usually been the same

gdb
06-29-2008, 02:34 PM
If anyone's interested, here's the old Kevin Smith reboot script from the 1990s that was almost made: http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/superman-lives-script.html Makes for interesting reading but realize that Nic Cage was hired as Superman and Tim Burton was hired to direct. It got very close to being filmed before this project was euthanized.

Darth Caedus
06-29-2008, 04:52 PM
If anyone's interested, here's the old Kevin Smith reboot script from the 1990s that was almost made: http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/superman-lives-script.html Makes for interesting reading but realize that Nic Cage was hired as Superman and Tim Burton was hired to direct. It got very close to being filmed before this project was euthanized.

Just finished reading it. While I thought it was decent, I wouldn't want that script to be made into a movie. I can't put my finger on it, but something about it just didn't fly with me.

Darklord Dave
06-29-2008, 06:04 PM
I was never a fan of the Smith script either - perhaps it was the Jon Peters influence, but it didn't impress me when I read it many years ago.

Darth Caedus
06-29-2008, 07:13 PM
I was never a fan of the Smith script either - perhaps it was the Jon Peters influence, but it didn't impress me when I read it many years ago.

Yea, I liked the Abrams script much more than Smiths. Odd, two great writers both wrote a superman script that was really sub-par...interesting

The Mike
07-21-2008, 08:53 PM
Mark Millar Talks More Superman
Source: Den of Geek
July 21, 2008


Den of Greek tells us they interviewed Mark Millar and asked more questions about his proposed "Superman" revamp that they will pitch to Warner Bros. Pictures if Bryan Singer wouldn't do a Superman Returns follow-up:

We've just done a new interview with Mark Millar and asked him all about Superman. the link is here:

Among the things he says:

* Everything he's done is building up to a Superman film
* His position regarding Bryan Singer
* How reverent he'd be to the Donner version

Hope it's of interest!

Here is the link:

http://www.denofgeek.com/comics/88459/the_den_of_geek_interview_mark_millar.html

He definitely backs off his original statements....

EVILFACE
07-21-2008, 08:58 PM
Just say no.

IrishJedi
07-21-2008, 09:22 PM
Someone needs to punch Mark Millar in the face.

Dr.Mirakle32
07-21-2008, 10:24 PM
As long as any future Superman films don't retell the origin story, have plenty of action, and keep the John Williams themes, then I'm good. If Singer could make a truly great one after the decent RETURNS (which I really did like,) then let him stay on board. If not, get somebody else, but make him keep that criteria.

After SR, I think action is what fans and audiences want. I don't want non-stop mindless action, but the story has to have room for some. And why ditch out the Donner continuity? They don't have to directly reference it every five minutes, or structure the story around it like SR did, just make a movie where Superman is already established and kicking ass in the middle of his career, and use the Williams music when necessary.

pjam
07-21-2008, 10:27 PM
Someone needs to punch Mark Millar in the face.

:rotfl :lecture

Darth Caedus
07-21-2008, 10:40 PM
yea, Returns was too much of a rehash of the first one. Have this new one break out, let it have it's own identity. Sure, we can have action, but I'm much more interested in the actual of character of superman, more so then mindless action. (which is why dark knight was so good, got deep down into the psyche of Bruce). Hope we get a dark knight quality movie out of the man of steel.

Darklord Dave
07-22-2008, 12:40 AM
Funny how he says they have to wait and see what Singer wants to do because you don't just nick a project from someone else. But isn't that exactly what happened to Abrams?

Moonloop
07-22-2008, 09:29 AM
Whatever they do for the next film, I hope Brandon Routh returns as Superman. The first one "flopping" was not his fault, I think he is a great Clark Kent and Superman for the new era.

OSCORP
07-22-2008, 09:30 AM
As long as any future Superman films don't retell the origin story, have plenty of action, and keep the John Williams themes, then I'm good. If Singer could make a truly great one after the decent RETURNS (which I really did like,) then let him stay on board. If not, get somebody else, but make him keep that criteria.

After SR, I think action is what fans and audiences want. I don't want non-stop mindless action, but the story has to have room for some. And why ditch out the Donner continuity? They don't have to directly reference it every five minutes, or structure the story around it like SR did, just make a movie where Superman is already established and kicking ass in the middle of his career, and use the Williams music when necessary.


EASY PEASEY

Blackhole
07-22-2008, 09:38 AM
As long as it's named THE MAN OF STEEL...

Like The Dark Night...

Oh, and they have to keep that music, and the nods to the old films too...

Then I'll be happy...

Darth Caedus
07-22-2008, 10:07 AM
As long as it's named THE MAN OF STEEL...

Like The Dark Night...

Oh, and they have to keep that music, and the nods to the old films too...

Then I'll be happy...

But there's a differences between NODS and copying the whole damn plot for the movie.........

pjam
07-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Whatever they do for the next film, I hope Brandon Routh returns as Superman. The first one "flopping" was not his fault, I think he is a great Clark Kent and Superman for the new era.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. WB was very happy with Brandon's performance.

CelticPredator
07-22-2008, 10:53 AM
It needs non stop action, and giant spiders.

Darth Caedus
07-22-2008, 11:54 AM
It needs non stop action, and giant spiders.

YES !!!! And Superman's guards; perhaps they can be polar bears of something.

Reinhardt
07-22-2008, 11:59 AM
YES !!!! And Superman's guards; perhaps they can be polar bears of something.

:lol :lol

most definitely!!! and i'd like you to read the script to me with me putting my hands up in the air to visualize the script playing out.

Dr.Mirakle32
07-22-2008, 01:03 PM
But there's a differences between NODS and copying the whole damn plot for the movie.........

I agree. Keep the Donner/Lesster/Singer continuity, ditch rewriting the Donner film.

Dr.Mirakle32
07-22-2008, 01:04 PM
:lol :lol

most definitely!!! and i'd like you to read the script to me with me putting my hands up in the air to visualize the script playing out.

Don't forget. We NEED a gay, black R2 D2!

gabberjawa
07-22-2008, 01:38 PM
Man of Steel

Bring it

The Mike
08-13-2008, 01:23 AM
The Next Superman Movie Could Be an All-Star
Posted at 3:02 PM Aug 12, 2008
http://www.toplessrobot.com/allstarsuperman020.jpg
I am not a Superman fan. I think he's a tool. I think he has to be a tool—it seems like in every Justice League cartoon I ever watched, Superman would moronically fly directly into a laser, fall to the ground, and let the rest of the League flail about ineffectually until he woke up at the end of the episode to save the day. Which is why I was so pleasantly surprised by Grant Morrison All-Star Superman—it was fun, massively entertaining, and gave Superman a problem he couldn't beat (his impending death).

Here's another pleasant surprise—the Newsarama blog says that Grant Morrison pitched the next Superman movie as a reboot to be modeled after his All-Star Superman series at the recent DC/Warner Bros. summit (the one they held to figure out why Marvel was mostly kicking their joint asses). This is a fabulous idea. I would gladly trade Luthor's inept henchmen, the super-toddler, and that preposterous kryptonite land-mass for Superman giving Lois her own superpowers for a day, Jimmy Olson accidentally turning into Doomsday, and that frankly incredible conversation between Clark Kent and an imprisoned Lex Luthor. It all sounds too good to be true, so it probably is.

Also, I have no idea what the hell is going on in the panels above. I must not have read that far.

DarkArtist81
08-13-2008, 08:29 AM
All Star Superman is a great story and incidentally one of the few Supes stories I even take the time to read anymore. Not since the Jim Lee take a while back has anyone done anything smart with Superman, but Morrison really did it with this story. It can get a bit weird and some of the story gets a bit muddled... but it's still great.

If the new film was anything like that, it would be amazing.

Darklord Dave
08-13-2008, 09:51 AM
I'm a huge Superman fan and always have been and I thought All-Star Superman was incredibly overrated. Perhaps the whimsy is appealing to non-Superman fans, but it felt like Morrison and the artist were just making fun of him. Thank god Morrison has nothing to do with a Superman movie.

gdb
08-13-2008, 05:39 PM
It seems that to be a fan of All Star Superman or All Star Batman & Robin, you have to not be a fan of the canon books. Conversely, fans of the other books don't take to the All Star lines.

The Mike
08-13-2008, 09:00 PM
What I find more interesting is that stories continue to leak out about a Superman reboot. Whether its from Mark Millar or Grant Morrison it appears that whether Singer is at the helm or not, that there is strong mounting evidence that the studio may want to undo Superman Returns.

TheObsoleteMan
08-13-2008, 09:04 PM
The next film should be a reboot, but not necessarily to undo Superman Returns. It was a nice love letter to the Donner films, but now it's time to leave that legacy in the past and start a new one for a new generation.

The Mike
08-13-2008, 09:24 PM
Future doubtful for Superman sequel as director takes on new TV project
By David Bentley

THE CHANCES of director Bryan Singer making his proposed Man of Steel sequel to 2006's Superman Returns appeared to suffer another blow today.

Singer is now in talks to direct a new US TV series called Studio, about the hedonistic New York culture that led to the formation of world-famous nightclub Studio 54 in the late 70s, says Hollywood Reporter.

He's also been named as a producer on two upcoming movies adapted from new comicbooks - Capeshooters and Freedom Formula.

Some superhero fans fans believe Singer's involvement with other projects, in the absence of any official announcement on the Man of Steel sequel, is a sign he has moved on from the Superman franchise after his first attempt underperformed financially and caused an extreme love/hate division among Superman fans. Others say Singer is known for multi-tasking and could still make another Superman film, but there has been no official word on a sequel in the two years since the first movie.

Singer is executive producer of the TV medical drama House and also executive-produced TV miniseries The Triangle about the mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle.

The Mike
08-13-2008, 09:43 PM
Director Zack Snyder reveals he said 'no' to Superman movie
By David Bentley on Jul 29, 08


ZACK SNYDER - the director of Spartans-on-steroids war epic '300' and upcoming comicbook adaption Watchmen - has revealed he turned down the chance to make a Superman film.

Snyder said he felt Superman was too difficult and too 'earnest' to successfully translate to the screen because the so-called ultimate boy-scout with his code of truth, justice and the American way doesn't fit today's darker times.

The director told USA Today: "They asked me to direct a Superman movie, and I said no. He's a tricky one nowadays, isn't he? He's the king daddy of all comicbook heroes, but I'm just not sure how you sell that kind of earnestness to a sophisticated audience anymore."
Attempts by Bryan Singer to add more angst and flawed behaviour to Superman in his 2006 endeavour Superman Returns did not go down well with many fans, who felt this was a mischaracterisation.

Only this weekend, the Sunday Times newspaper in the UK (which rated The Dark Knight at 2 out of 5) criticised the current trend for heroes with deep psychological flaws - such as Batman, Hulk, Hancock and Iron Man.

TheObsoleteMan
08-13-2008, 09:49 PM
The director told USA Today: "They asked me to direct a Superman movie, and I said no. He's a tricky one nowadays, isn't he? He's the king daddy of all comicbook heroes, but I'm just not sure how you sell that kind of earnestness to a sophisticated audience anymore."


I agree Superman is a tough sell nowadays, but it's not because the audience is more sophisticated. I think jaded is a more appropriate word.

The Mike
08-13-2008, 09:52 PM
I think Snyder being asked is proof positive that WB is looking for another director for the franchise.

TheObsoleteMan
08-13-2008, 09:54 PM
Yeah, I'd be shocked if we see another Superman film from Singer. If that were going to happen, the wheels would already be in motion.

Darklord Dave
08-13-2008, 11:45 PM
Could be Singer is just waiting for a script that he and the studio likes to be done. And Snyder could have been asked a long time ago - there's no date reference in his statement.

Iron Man isn't dark and is a successful superhero movie - sure Tony is more flawed than Clark, but Smallville has proved that Clark can be interesting.

In fact with the success of Sex in the City, Warners should see that transplanting a TV property to the big screen can work and make a Smallville to Metropolis film.

The Mike
08-13-2008, 11:57 PM
I would assume it was for the new film. Superman Returns was released in 2006 and Singer was working on it for a year right? The 300 was also released in 2006 and before that Synder had done Dawn of the Dead which doesn't scream to me and I'm sure didn't scream to Warners "This is our new Superman director." For him to be asked for Returns he'd had to be approached about the time Dawn of the Dead's release which was 2004. Plus Synder was a huge hit after the 300 and it'd make more sense for them to go to him if Singer wasn't going to work out for Man of Steel.

I would bet good money that his asking was for MOS and not prior.

As for the Metropolis film, with Rosenbaum leaving they'd need to get him back for the film because without the great dynamic already built between Lex and Clark set up to its natural end in Metropolis it wouldn't be worth seeing. Second, Welling has been opposed to playing Superman for some time now. Third, WB has no problem having Justice League: Mortal or at least had no problem, with them coexisting with the Batman and Superman Franchises in tandem so if they did do "Metropolis" it'd be released in concurrence most likely and not in place of.

The Mike
08-18-2008, 12:29 AM
How To Reboot The Superman Movie Franchise — Comic Writers Chime In
Published by Jennifer Vineyard on Monday, August 11, 2008 at 12:15 pm.

On the one hand, you’ve got “Batman Begins” and “The Dark Knight.” On the other, “Superman Returns.” So if you’re Warner Bros., what do you do to revitalize your other superhero? We asked a few comic book writers who know the Man of Steel best.

“‘Superman Returns’ didn’t work for a lot of reasons,” Grant Morrison said.

“I so wanted that movie to work,” said Mark Waid, “but every choice they made in that movie was wrong. If you’re making the movie in a vacuum, and there will be no other Superman movies ever again, go ahead and give him a son. But otherwise, that’s a staggeringly awful idea. What are you going to do next? Either the kid has to be a part of his life, or get superpowers, which no one wants to see. I want to go to them and say, ‘What were you thinking?’”

“The idea was to make an American Christ figure, but what they centered on was his weakness,” Morrison said. “They made him more a lamb of God, rather than give us a real powerful Superman. They had too many scenes where he’s being kicked to the floor, and that’s not Superman. Superman would get up and fight.”

So these comics book writers are getting up and fighting too. Both Morrison and Geoff Johns have pitched the film studio on how to reboot Superman — properly reboot him, as if “Superman Returns” didn’t even happen.

“I told them, it’s not that bad,” Morrison said. “Just treat ‘Superman Returns’ as the Ang Lee ‘Hulk.’”

“‘The Hulk’ has proven the audience will forgive you and let you redo the franchise,” Waid said. “You can reboot from scratch.”

Morrison’s idea was a more “tight and concise” take on his “All-Star Superman,” so you’d see Superman address his mortality. And Waid suggests they take a look at his hard reboot, “Superman: Birthright.” But Brad Meltzer also has an idea that could work as the basis for the character, based on research for his upcoming “Book of Lies.”

“Superman is a character more recognizable than Abraham Lincoln or Mickey Mouse,” Meltzer said. “But no one knows crap about Mickey Mouse. He’s a symbol. Understanding a soul is much harder. So don’t treat him like a walking American flag.”

To understand Superman, Meltzer says, you have to know why Superman was created in the first place — because a young Jerry Siegel’s father was shot and killed in 1932 (a fact first uncovered by Gerard Jones in “Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters and the Birth of the Comic Book”).

“Superman was created not because America is the greatest country on earth, not because Moses came to save us from Krypton, but because a little boy lost his father,” Meltzer said. “In his first appearances, he couldn’t fly. He didn’t have X-ray vision. He was only bulletproof. So Superman’s not a character built out of strength, but out of loss.”

“When you hear that, it puts on a whole new spin on Superman and his origins,” Waid said. “The understanding was that Batman was born out of traged and Superman out of hope and aspiration, and it turns out that it’s about not wanting to lose your loved ones. That’s critical, and it means that we can connect with him. He’s not an untouchable character. Bad things still happen to him. His father passes away, and his powers can’t save him.”

And even if Superman still seems like too much of a Boy Scout, we’re supposed to be identifying with Clark Kent anyway. “Everybody knows what it’s like to see the pretty girl and think, ‘If only she could see me for who I really was,’” Waid said. “Past the glasses and acne or whatever. But he has to hide, and half his co-workers don’t even know his name. That’s a critical part, too.”

“It is so much deeper than, ‘He’s an alien with superpowers,’” Meltzer said. “I never wanted to write a Superman movie before, but I do now. I understand what Superman is now.”

The Mike
08-20-2008, 12:35 AM
Where is Superman Headed?
Source: Variety August 19, 2008

Variety's Anne Thompson reports that Superman: Man of Steel is in a holding pattern at Warner Bros. Pictures as the studio figures out what to do next. Here's a clip:

They too believe that the last movie didn't break the mold and wound up in some kind of middle limbo. Today I was told that it is a priority at the studio to find the right direction and if Bryan Singer is willing to do that, fine, but if he gets in the way, he may not stay on the project. There are no writers working on a Superman script now. The studio wants to figure it out. "It might be better to start from scratch," one exec admitted.

This begs the question would Singer be willing to undo his last film at the Studio's say so? One would think that the studio saying that is just playing politics but if they decide reboot then he'd leave the franchise out of artistic integrity alone wouldn't he?

RJMacReady16
08-20-2008, 08:41 AM
Morrison’s idea was a more “tight and concise” take on his “All-Star Superman,” so you’d see Superman address his mortality. And Waid suggests they take a look at his hard reboot, “Superman: Birthright.” But Brad Meltzer also has an idea that could work as the basis for the character, based on research for his upcoming “Book of Lies.”

“Superman is a character more recognizable than Abraham Lincoln or Mickey Mouse,” Meltzer said. “But no one knows crap about Mickey Mouse. He’s a symbol. Understanding a soul is much harder. So don’t treat him like a walking American flag.”

To understand Superman, Meltzer says, you have to know why Superman was created in the first place — because a young Jerry Siegel’s father was shot and killed in 1932 (a fact first uncovered by Gerard Jones in “Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters and the Birth of the Comic Book”).

“Superman was created not because America is the greatest country on earth, not because Moses came to save us from Krypton, but because a little boy lost his father,” Meltzer said. “In his first appearances, he couldn’t fly. He didn’t have X-ray vision. He was only bulletproof. So Superman’s not a character built out of strength, but out of loss.”

“When you hear that, it puts on a whole new spin on Superman and his origins,” Waid said. “The understanding was that Batman was born out of traged and Superman out of hope and aspiration, and it turns out that it’s about not wanting to lose your loved ones. That’s critical, and it means that we can connect with him. He’s not an untouchable character. Bad things still happen to him. His father passes away, and his powers can’t save him.”

“It is so much deeper than, ‘He’s an alien with superpowers,’” Meltzer said. “I never wanted to write a Superman movie before, but I do now. I understand what Superman is now.”

I love Morrison's take on Superman Returns being Ang Lee's Hulk :lol

All Star Superman is the best Supes comic in years...but a movie would be horrid.

I think Meltzer gets it. Time for a reboot.

Reinhardt
08-20-2008, 08:49 AM
i would love to see Zach Snyder do Superman.

My Lord
08-20-2008, 09:43 AM
I didn't hate Superman Returns, but I wouldn't mind a reboot. If that's the case, I don't see Singer coming back. Hmm, I wonder what Christopher Nolan/David S. Goyer could do with Superman?

The Mike
08-20-2008, 09:45 AM
i would love to see Zach Snyder do Superman.

He was offered and pasted and refuses to do it.

NASEDO
08-20-2008, 01:05 PM
Singer has to go. He ruined the franchise. Only thing left is a re-boot. Atleast Smallville is still going.

Blackhole
08-21-2008, 03:33 AM
Am I the only person who enjoyed Superman Returns?

I mean it's no Superman I or II, but it beats III and IV right?

RJMacReady16
08-21-2008, 06:39 AM
Am I the only person who enjoyed Superman Returns?

I mean it's no Superman I or II, but it beats III and IV right?

I enjoyed Returns, mostly because I liked Routh and I was excited to see a Supes movie, but it was certainly not a great Superman film.

I hated the originals, even as a kid, so mimicking those was an inevitable failure in my book. Returns is the best attempt, but I don't think that any of them have gotten even close to doing the character justice.

Kabukiman
08-21-2008, 06:55 AM
Am I the only person who enjoyed Superman Returns?

Nope. I liked it too. The cast was great (but I didn't care for the new Lois) and the story was enjoyable. I understand why some people didn't like it, but I still like it.

Andy Bergholtz
08-21-2008, 06:56 AM
I have to admit I would love a complete reboot of Superman, I was not a fan of "Returns" at all. I'm inclined to applaud studios for having the balls to do this lately, like the situation with HULK. Used to be, if we got a disappointing film adaptation, we had to live with it... At least for a decade or two before it was remade. Nowadays it seems like studios are willing to buck up and not willing to settle for crap when they can do it "right" a 2nd time. I like that... I think.


I had complete faith in Singer after his great track record before "Returns", but I think he completely dropped the ball with Supes in every way.

At this point, I'm with Dave.... I would love to see a Smallville-to-Metropolis movie. I've gotten pretty sucked up in Smallville and really want to see Welling take the role. He's not a phenomenal actor but he's a WAY better Clark than Routh. The only thing that kinda pisses me off is the fact that they brought Lois to Smallville, I don't know how they are going to deal with that big fat issue (I'm only halfway into Season 4 right now, so don't spoil it for me if there's a resolution coming that I don't know about yet!).

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 07:16 AM
Am I the only person who enjoyed Superman Returns?

I mean it's no Superman I or II, but it beats III and IV right?

No.
I enjoyed it.

You're right it was no superman 1&2 but more of a set up/return and then setting up a big action one is the way i saw it.

And for the record i can't stand smallville and Routh IS Superman :)




I hated the originals, even as a kid, so mimicking those was an inevitable failure in my book. Returns is the best attempt, but I don't think that any of them have gotten even close to doing the character justice.

Superman the Movie is the best Superhero movie of all time IMO.

RJMacReady16
08-21-2008, 09:03 AM
Superman the Movie is the best Superhero movie of all time IMO.

And you're certainly not alone. I'm most likely in the minority on this, but I never liked those films---from the Lois Lane who looked like she smoked four packs of Pall Malls a day, to chubby McChubberton Brando wearing a silk nightie as Jor-El.

There's a million other reasons but I'll spare myself any more scrutiny.

Andy Bergholtz
08-21-2008, 09:28 AM
And you're certainly not alone. I'm most likely in the minority on this, but I never liked those films---from the Lois Lane who looked like she smoked four packs of Pall Malls a day, to chubby McChubberton Brando wearing a silk nightie as Jor-El.

There's a million other reasons but I'll spare myself any more scrutiny.


I tend to agree with you, to be honest.

Don't get me wrong... I love Superman: The Movie, quite a LOT actually... But most of that affection is simply due to nostalgia. I was a small child when I first saw it, so of course I was enamoured. But upon revisiting it as an adult I think it does not hold up well and is pretty highly overrated.

That said, I still think Chris Reeve was the pinnacle of all Superman casting. He IS Superman, there was never and will never be a more perfect fit for that role in my opinion.

PapitoMX
08-21-2008, 09:39 AM
I did enjoy Superman returns, but I can't put myself to watch it more than twice. Though they could have picked a better plot than re-use the same one from part 1.
But I think the Best Superman movie is part 2. But not the Theatrical Version, I mean the Richard Donner version. Now that version was way better than the one that came out in the theatres, it was more of a serious tone and they bring back Marlon Brando!!! Man, that scene when Clark is asking his father for his powers back was just amazing and gave me chills. But that might be just me.

Darklord Dave
08-21-2008, 10:16 AM
I thought Superman Returns was okay. I had always hated that Singer decided to build on the Donner legacy rather than reboot, but I liked Routh.

Part of the Donner legacy that I hate is how Clark is treated, and I do prefer the Clark of Smallville over the Donner/Singer Clark. I have a huge nostalgia for Superman: The Movie, but watching recently it doesn't really hold up. I do agree that Reeve is perfect and Routh carries that legacy fairly well - he even sounds and moves like Reeve.

But I think we need a reboot, not necessarily an origin story, but a reinterpretation of the character, especially the Clark version of the character and his relationship with Lois.

OSCORP
08-21-2008, 10:41 AM
Superman the movie not only still holds up for me, but i still get chills at certain parts of the movie. (not many movies can do that today for me, although John Williams might have something to do with that)

I for one hope we don't get a reboot i thought SR was OK. But i think an action packed part 2 would bring things to level.

Kabukiman
08-21-2008, 12:21 PM
Don't get me wrong... I love Superman: The Movie, quite a LOT actually... But most of that affection is simply due to nostalgia. I was a small child when I first saw it, so of course I was enamoured. But upon revisiting it as an adult I think it does not hold up well and is pretty highly overrated.

I loved and still love the Donner films. I especially love Superman II: The Richard Donner cut. However, there is one thing that really bugs me about the original and the Donner cut of 2: time travel. :banghead Not just time travel, but spin the Earth in reverse to go back in time? WTF?!? :duh

Dr.Mirakle32
08-21-2008, 12:35 PM
Superman the movie not only still holds up for me, but i still get chills at certain parts of the movie. (not many movies can do that today for me, although John Williams might have something to do with that)

I for one hope we don't get a reboot i thought SR was OK. But i think an action packed part 2 would bring things to level.

I completely agree.

RJMacReady16
08-21-2008, 12:37 PM
I loved and still love the Donner films. I especially love Superman II: The Richard Donner cut. However, there is one thing that really bugs me about the original and the Donner cut of 2: time travel. :banghead Not just time travel, but spin the Earth in reverse to go back in time? WTF?!? :duh

:lol That always cracked me up. Can you even begin to realize what kind of environmental catastrophe that would cause? And even in the 70's that had to have crossed someone's mind when they made that damn film.



I for one hope we don't get a reboot i thought SR was OK. But i think an action packed part 2 would bring things to level.

My biggest qualm with a sequel to SR is: What would you do with the kid? And do you really like the fact that Supes is a deadbeat dad?

Dr.Mirakle32
08-21-2008, 12:40 PM
I think it would be an interesting left-field twist, if it turns out the real Richard was killed years ago, and Brainiac took his place to get close to Lois, because of her relationship with Superman. The kid might have been an impregnated clone, that after a certain age, may eventually begin to age at a rapid rate, and will turn into a "Bizarro" creature, who heroically dies trying to save his "father" from Brainiac.

It would be a stretch, but if done right, it might work.

NASEDO
08-21-2008, 03:37 PM
Superman Returns was a joke. Lois was why too young. And Lex is back. Out of jail because Superman didn't show up as a witness at court. :lol Then Lex's plan to destroy the world and live on a rock, :rotfl. And the kid is Supermans son, sick all the time. So stupid. Like the article here said, where do you go now, The kid is now part of the Franchise. I just hope one day I run into Singer, would love to tell him in person he's a moron.

The Mike
08-22-2008, 09:51 AM
Warner Bros. Confirms Superman Reboot
Source: Steelsheen
August 22, 2008


Just a few days after this article was posted, Warner Bros. Pictures Group President Jeff Robinov has told The Wall Street Journal that the studio is going to be reintroducing Superman. We assume this will be similar to how Louis Leterrier's The Incredible Hulk was a reboot of Ang Lee's Hulk. Here is what the article says:

Warner Bros. also put on hold plans for another movie starring multiple superheroes -- known as "Batman vs. Superman" -- after the $215 million "Superman Returns," which had disappointing box-office returns, didn't please executives. "'Superman' didn't quite work as a film in the way that we wanted it to," says Mr. Robinov. "It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned." "Had 'Superman' worked in 2006, we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009," he adds. "But now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."

The article also talks about Warner Bros. adapting other DC properties over the new few years. "By 2011, Mr. Robinov plans for DC Comics to supply the material for up to two of the six to eight tent-pole films he hopes Warner Bros. will have in the pipeline by then," it says. Those projects will likely be about single characters at first, and will be darker much like The Dark Knight:

With "Batman vs. Superman" and "Justice League" stalled, Warner Bros. has quietly adopted Marvel's model of releasing a single film for each character, and then using those movies and their sequels to build up to a multicharacter film. "Along those lines, we have been developing every DC character that we own," Mr. Robinov says.

Like the recent Batman sequel -- which has become the highest-grossing film of the year thus far -- Mr. Robinov wants his next pack of superhero movies to be bathed in the same brooding tone as "The Dark Knight." Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the key to unlocking some of Warner Bros.' DC properties. "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it," he says. That goes for the company's Superman franchise as well.

The studio is set to announce its plans for future DC movies in the next month. For now, though, it is focused on releasing four comic-book films in the next three years, including a third Batman film, a new film reintroducing Superman, and two movies focusing on other DC Comics characters. Movies featuring Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow, and Wonder Woman are all in active development.

We'll let you know as soon as the studio has announced its plans for future DC movies.

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 09:57 AM
Damnit!!!!

They better keep Routh that's all i know.(and the JW theme)

And i think it's kinda stupid just cause he thinks TDK Joker was so "dark" Now all the DC villains gotta be this uber cool bad guy. Oh well, if it works i guess.

whateva (i still have superman 1&2 forever and they can't take it away :))

Darklord Dave
08-22-2008, 10:03 AM
Good news and bad news. Good news - they're rebooting. But taking Superman dark is just dumb. Iron Man wasn't dark and did pretty well at the box office.

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 10:06 AM
But taking Superman dark is just dumb.


Exactly.
TOO much TDK hype gone to people heads.

The Mike
08-22-2008, 10:06 AM
Well, they said that they'd take them as Dark as the Character allows. Superman's depth is not too bad in that range so it might just be focusing on the villain more than the hero. Just like in Green Lantern, Hal Jordan isn't dark but you can really make Sinestro far darker and more villainous than even Ledger's Joker.... Also, many of the WB reps were quoted as saying Batman was so much darker than before, they loved how dark Nolan made him only to have themselves corrected as being "real". Dark may not mean what they are indicating.

This is definitely on the priority list for DC/WB so look for some information to come out sooner than later. Will they use Lex as the villain again? Will they finally show Krypton as we've seen it in modern comics?

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 10:08 AM
I just want Routh back whatever the hell they do. He's perfect!!!

wofford29
08-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Seriously?


I wouldn't mind a dark take on Superman, but in a more introspective take. Not a blunt and in your face dark film.

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 10:19 AM
The comment pretty much sums up my thoughts on this reboot.(and the other DC films going dark)

Posted by: ambassadorz on August 22, 2008 at 11:14:50

Ok, Warner Bros still doesn't get it. TDK worked because Batman's character is DARK!! Superman doesn't need to be darker in tone in order for it to be successful, he justs needs to kick ass and fight villains!! This goes for the flash, wonder woman and whatever else they're looking to produce. These execs are idiots. Hire comic book writers who know the damn characters they helped create and just sit back and reap the benefits of the properties they hold. Is it just me or am i alone in thinking this?

QUIT COPYING OTHER SUCCESSFUL FILMS WB!!!!!

The Mike
08-22-2008, 10:21 AM
Well the good news is that unlike before with these films, many of the current and past Superman Comic Book writers are submitting pitches and screenplays to WB to try and snag this film. So there is a chance that we might get a comic book writer to pen the story

My Lord
08-22-2008, 10:23 AM
Good to hear they are thinking of rebooting the franchise. Bad new is the suits think that the "Dark" formula must be applied to all their superhero properties.:rolleyes:

I think someone on the boards predicted this very thing, with all the success of the Dark Knight.

I hope they keep Routh at least.

wofford29
08-22-2008, 10:24 AM
Superman man could easily work with a dark tone, but not a dark tone like a Batman film. Like I said, I'd love to see a Superman man with a dark introspective tone behind it. It would certainly make him more relatable. Five for Fighting's Superman song lyrics are a good example of what I'm talking about.


Title: Five For Fighting - Superman lyrics

I can’t stand to fly
I’m not that naive
I’m just out to find
The better part of me

I’m more than a bird...i’m more than a plane
More than some pretty face beside a train
It’s not easy to be me

Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home I’ll never see

It may sound absurd...but don’t be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but won’t you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
It’s not easy to be me

Up, up and away...away from me
It’s all right...you can all sleep sound tonight
I’m not crazy...or anything...

I can’t stand to fly
I’m not that naive
Men weren’t meant to ride
With clouds between their knees

I’m only a man in a silly red sheet
Digging for kryptonite on this one way street
Only a man in a funny red sheet
Looking for special things inside of me
Inside of me
Inside me
Yeah, inside me
Inside of me

I’m only a man
In a funny red sheet
I’m only a man
Looking for a dream

I’m only a man
In a funny red sheet
And it’s not easy, hmmm, hmmm, hmmm...

Its not easy to be me

RJMacReady16
08-22-2008, 10:25 AM
They need to lose the sh#$%y Superman Returns costume....

The Mike
08-22-2008, 10:31 AM
I guarantee you that the costume will be redone, the SR costume was Singer's baby. Now in term of the darker tone like Wofford posted with those lyrics, the darker side of Superman is his feeling of not being accepted or part of this world despite wanting to be part of it so desperately. This is probably where they'll go but the danger is depending on the actor it just might come off whiny.

Also, I don't think they'll keep anything tied to SR which means Routh is out most likely. I think they'll go the Batman route knowing that Lex Luthor is the Joker for Superman so probably if Lex is involved he probably won't be until film 2. Millar and many of the other writers have been pitching Brainiac because of the obvious Krypton ties and how they can use that character to help the origins.

OSCORP
08-22-2008, 10:33 AM
I don't think it matters what they do. It will never top this ^^^^!!


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NASEDO
08-22-2008, 10:34 AM
The new "Dark" concept does seem stupid. Glad to hear the studios agree Singer ruined the franchise. Have to wait and see what happens.

The Mike
08-22-2008, 10:37 AM
I don't think it matters what they do. It will never top this ^^^^!!

People said the same thing to Nolan and company about Burton's Batman. I am very optimistic about this but it will severely depend on who is helming to see what we'll be getting.