How SideShow could do it next [Archive]

B Electronic

06-09-2005, 01:48 AM

Last year's lottery was a stinker. This year's 'first-come-first-serve' was hectic. Cant complain myself how things went along this year, but lots of other people didnt like it one bit. So how about you tell us how SideShow should do it next year? Seems its easier to complain than it is to come up with ideas so put your money where your mouth is and tell us what we should expect next year.

My idea would be to do it the same way it went this year, just maybe move it to the weekend. And another idea that would help, is have the item come by 2 times on the same day. Maybe one in the morning and one in the evening. That way people from other time-zones or day/night time jobs will also have a fair chance of trying to get a piece.

MiskatonicNick

06-09-2005, 04:32 AM

How about an announcement along the lines of 'out of respect for our global fan base and in light of blatant profiteering by some on ebay, we won't be making anymore SDCC exclusive figures for the foreseeable future'?

I know, I know - I'm living in Cloud Cuckoo Land ;)

Nick

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 06:01 AM

This year's approach was the best I've ever seen. I doubt they'll be able to get much better at it.

The only way you'll make some people happy is to not have show exclusives. Of course, how many of these 7 would have ever gotten made if they weren't a show exclusive? In other words, if there weren't SDCC exclusives this year, there'd be 7 less figures/items for you to even consider buying.

Of course, I recommend people find a way to go to SDCC. You'll enjoy it immensely, even if you hate crowds - I sure do.

Michael
MWC

Moebius9

06-09-2005, 06:22 AM

I think it was handled pretty well and there were no server crashes as I suspected. My only change would be for some more pieces available for non-attendees, or just up the overall run. of course this may pan out after the show when there are some left over.....if?

As for not making them at all and them not seeing the light of day, I dont think so on several of them. The Thor and Patient Zero look like marketing research to me so I think those would have shown up anyways. And Oz, would have come along as well. There's just too much support for the Buffy line for it not to sell, even as a web exclusive to cut down the numbers. Luke and the Lawgiver I would agree with though. If those 2 were not Con exclusives then they wouldn't have seen the light of day. But, that goes back to what I "think" a Con exclusive should be. Those 2 are perfect examples of what should be a Con exclusive. But that's just IMHO :)

ironman1188

06-09-2005, 07:15 AM

How could they do it? I'm sure we could all come up with our own idea of what would suit our own tastes best.
The lottery seemed to leave some people cold while "extras" turned up in stores and on ebay. And you had to wait to see if you were one of the "lucky" few.
This year was definitely hectic. You had to be at the computer at a certain time to try for the items of your choice. Some successful, some not [right Creech? ;) ]
But, you did know right away if you were able to get one or if you were destined to suffer thru the waitlist [no guarantee there] or be overcharged on ebay. As there is no way for Sideshow to know whether the person buying the item is a scalper or not, I don't see a way they can avoid it happening. And bottom line, as much as they may want to take care of the customer/fan, they're still in it to make money and a sales a sale.
No SDCC exclusives? Would that mean we don't see certain figures? I don't think so. I think that the fury which hit the server yesterday to order these items show they were wanted anyway and may very well have sold as regular releases.
A better system.....? :idea
How about sending out notice that [insert item] will be released starting [insert date] at [insert price] for only [insert number] days.
Or, perhaps, sending out a notice in the newsletter. These items are our exclusives this year. They will be made available at SDCC on [insert date]. If you are unable to go, but are interested in any of them fill out the form [you'd have to make one up] on the Sideshow site. Then a production run could be made to accomodate the response, again, giving only until a certain date to answer. It would still be exclusive to SDCC and newsletter members, but not to the general public.
Might not be the best way but they may be worth considering.

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 07:59 AM

I think people are over estimating again, but it's not uncommon. Sideshow knows things we don't, and have access to information they use for setting the edition sizes - and whether something would get made or not - so it's often tough to say. Let's pretend for a minute that we're Sideshow though, and that our paychecks depend on our decisions.

I think we can all agree that the Lawgiver and Luke would probably never see the light of day without SDCC. Interestingly enough, the Lawgiver is the only one of the seven to sell out, and did so in just 40 minutes. I think that the fact it was coming got leaked so early, has kept POTA collectors from picking up the regular version, and they waited for this one.

What about Oz? He's fairly iconic I suppose, but both Vamp Buffy and Origins Angel are pretty cool variants, set at 750, available for anyone to buy, and they aren't selling. The exclusive version of Oz sold through, but how well is the regular version selling? Sideshow knows - we don't. But I would hazard a guess that how well (or not) he's selling directly effected the edition size of 750.

Patient Zero is a variant of a figure we haven't gotten yet, so in reality, he's just like Luke and Lawgiver. Will we see a Patient Zero? Yes, but we'll see another version of him anyway. This way we end up with two - the limited SDCC exclusive, and a larger run version later. Without SDCC, there would only be the larger run version later. I also suspect that there is some concern at Sideshow over how well an in house Zombie line can do, and this exclusive is a great chance to quell any fears. Without it, perhaps...just perhaps...they'd decide not to take the chance on the larger line. They can be pretty sure that they'll sell through these 300, but without testing the waters, they might be a lot less likely to jump on the band wagon with a larger run.

Hellboy is one I think we'd see anyway, and the run of 2000 pretty much proves that. I also think it will be one that nobody has a problem getting, and with 1000 of them earmarked for some sort of international distribution, it's clear they know the demand is there.

I can't really speak to the Rohirrim soldier, as I don't follow the busts.

And then there's Thor's helm and hammer. This one could go either way. I'm betting it's a fairly expensive item to make (much more so than the 1/4 scale Samaritan, since they already had the 1:1 version they could simply scale down), and I'm also betting that the margins on these aren't all that great. It is the only one though (other than Hellboy) that I can see them possibly doing without SDCC.

So out of 7, I think 4 are figures we wouldn't be getting otherwise, 1 I don't know, 1 we'd get for sure, and 1 is up in the air.

Michael
MWC

Buttmunch

06-09-2005, 08:34 AM

Sideshow should have higher limited edition sizes -around a 1000 like last year seemed about right- and then put it up for pre-order with the option of picking it up at the con or staying home. That way attendees and non-attendees have the same chance of getting one. Nobody is excluded -unless you are not near a computer like poor FrankenFan :(

MWC, where did you here Patient Zero (SDCC) is a variant? Do you know what is the difference?

ChrisfromSideshow

06-09-2005, 08:45 AM

Great feedback!

We appreciate reading well thought out opinions and reactions.

Thanks!

ironman1188

06-09-2005, 09:01 AM

All recovered now, Chris??? :p

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 09:06 AM

I'm making an educated guess on PZ, Buttmunch. Think of it this way - obviously Sideshow has plans for an in house line called The Dead. Patient Zero is their first release (patient zero, har har), but they do a very limited 300 first to test the market.

They sell well, the market seems up for it, so they now do the actual line. It makes pretty good sense to re-issue Patient Zero, this time in greater numbers, but in some way different than the one they released at SDCC. Either you can count the SDCC as the variant because there's fewer of them, or the regular release Zero as the variant because he came second - either way, fit they didn't do the SDCC version, you'd only get one. With the SDCC version, I think it's a pretty safe bet we'll get two versions of Patient Zero.

Maybe not, but like I said - just an educated guess.

Michael
MWC

Buttmunch

06-09-2005, 09:09 AM

Okay, thanks for the clearification MWC. You are very wise when it comes to toys, so I bet you are right.

Chris, any comment? :p

DetroitSportsFan

06-09-2005, 10:41 AM

If they are going to do it like this year, the only things I would change is moving it to the weekend (Sunday would be best) and making more available (like 50%) to non-attendees. Judging from the attendee preorders so far, I think this would be a great move for both Sideshow and their loyal customers.

Of course, the BEST thing for the customers (as stated above) would be to announce "item x" is going up for presale on "x day" for a certain number of days. Then how ever many preorders Sideshow has for "item x" in that number of days is how many Sideshow will produce, and maybe add a few to make an even number.

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 12:11 PM

While I like the idea of setting up a preorder in advance to help set the edition number, I had one question - wouldn't that require them to do the pre-order months before the show?

Then again, if they had a rough idea of how many they thought they'd need, and then using the pre-order as a confirming tool, I suspect they could up the order quantity at the last minute if necessary. Still, getting the figures manufactured and then shipped would require at least an additional month or two lead time over the current situation. Couldn't the fact that people still wouldn't have their heads around SDCC - and their plans finalized - seriously impact the quantity Sideshow would produce?

Hmmm - it's worth considering, but I can see where it could cause issues as well.

Michael
MWC

Oxbeard

06-09-2005, 01:41 PM

In all seriousness, I think this years method worked well and yes I did miss out on the Luke I really wanted, but I'm on the waitlist with very high expectations.

I would have like to see a larger amount of items devoted to the non-attendee sales, but like was mentioned before this may all average out through the waitlist. And on this detail too we should keep in mind that on most items SS did increase the allotment above the posted 10%.

The biggest thing I would like to have seen changed is preventing the links from being post on the various news/fan sites across the web. We at the SS board have respected SS's request not to post links from the newsletter, but you go to many numerous other popular sites most of whom appear to be SS affiliates and the links were published openly.

Even if SS was planning on the more widespread advertising for the pick-up in person allotments, Then maybe the non-attending sales should occur a week prior to attending sales going live and allow only the posting of attending links. Of course I know if this were even considered, there would be the whole policing and enforcing part of it, but you asked for ideas.

dstephan

06-09-2005, 01:52 PM

There's a great tool that SS could use to prevent the times being posted. I'd imagine that all the sites that did have the times up were affiliates. Just tell them they jeopardize their affiliate status if they post the times.

I'd also like to see the orders from anyone with an ebay auction pre-sale cancelled. But perhaps they'd have to put that in the newsletter prior to purchase.

They wouldn't have any trouble enforcing that, I'm sure we'd be happy to report any and all ebay pre-sales...

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 01:59 PM

Well, you're getting into iffy territory. SS wanted the links unpublished prior to Wednesday, but once Wednesday was here I don't think there's much you're going to do to avoid it. Do you really think affilliates want to miss out on the biggest day of sales?

Sideshow provided their affilliates with links on Wednesday morning. I put them on my page, without the times, and I only used the direct links to the attending items, not the non-attending. But I don't think there should be any sort of restrictions on what the affilliates can do with that information, since it's intended (by SS) as a big selling day for them (the affilliates). If they want to give their readers the heads up, that's really their call.

I was thinking about something else on the idea of the earlier pre-orders. And yes, it's another issue. Notice how the Lawgiver is the only one that is sold out? And yet the regular version of the Lawgiver is still readily available from the website?

Now, part of that is due to the smaller run size, but not all of it. The price tag is second only to Luke, the thing is going to be a PITA to get home, and it's a pretty basic variant. No, something else is going on here...and this is what I think it is.

This version of the Lawgiver leaked early. We've known this variant was coming for a couple months now. We weren't sure where it was going to be, but we knew it was coming. Now, I know if I had known about this variant's existence - even if I didn't know when I'd be able to get it - I would have held off on buying the regular one. And I think that's what a lot of people did, at least enough that the variant sold quickly while the regular version is still in stock.

So if the Werewolf Oz had been put up for pre-order back in early May or even late April, how do you think that might have effected regular Oz's sales? Some, a lot, not at all? And would that be a concern for Sideshow with the more traditional type SDCC exclusives, like Luke or the Lawgiver?

Michael
MWC

screamingmetal

06-09-2005, 02:02 PM

Great Idea B! I was planing on making the same topic today.

There is a major problem experienced by collectors over seas in this First come/serve event.
Even with very fast computers they had a very hard time trying to get the order pages to load. some had to wait up to 6 minutes for the page to finally load and for the page to tell them the item sold out.
I'll re-post what I posted in the LOTR side of the forum.

To solve the European pre-ordering problem, how about Sideshow setting aside half of the Non-attendees exclusives specially for Europe?
Where people in the US can't order from that page, that it's held a few days later or before the US Non-attendees ordering day, and at a better time for them to order? I think that would solve some of the problems for Europeans.

I like both the ideas for either not doing SDCC exclusives, or to do a pre-production preorder.
I don't think the pre production one is possible, these items have to be in production for quite some time in order to make the deadline. If it could be done, I'd say Sideshow should prevent people from canceling orders. They should bill customers a short time before the items ship to cover themselves from loss due to cancellations. I'm not sure if there is a limit of time from billing to delivery of product but it does seem fair.

Edit: I was typing this while someone was posting about the samething.
One Major problem for this years exclusives is is the fact that the preorder times and pages leaked out early.
By far the worst was Rebel Scum.com. They not only put up the links to the Luke Excl. but they also put up the links to ALL the exclusives! They also posted Sideshow's newsletter verbatim, with times and links for all.
Why would they inform their Star Wars viewers about a pre-order for a Zombie figure?

And I thought Sideshow doesn't like us posting the newsletter links here! >:
I don't know what these people where thinking, If someone was interested in buying the exclusives because they collect Sideshow products, then they already knew about the excl. pre-orders for non-attendees form the Sideshow newsletter. There where some who didn't get the newsletter at all that were supposed to receive it, but they didn't go to the news services for that information, they came here or they could have contacted Sideshow about it. Who where these news services informing of the Non-attendee order?
People who don't receive the confidential newsletter because they are not Sideshow's customers.
Ugh. >:

I thought the Sideshow newsletter was confidential? I thought we are not allowed to post information, or links from these newsletters?
That whole situation just makes me feel sick.

The solution would be for Sideshow to inform the news services that the newsletter was confidential to their customers and not for all to see. Which I thought was already their policy.

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 02:16 PM

"I thought the Sideshow newsletter was confidential? I thought we are not allowed to post information, or links from these newsletters?"

Say what? When did you ever get that idea?

And just so you understand, there's a separate affilliate newsletter that goes out weekly, with all the same info plus some. Affilliates were told to get out there and sell, sell, sell - this is a business, remember.

[EDIT - there are times that Sideshow includes information in BOTH newsletters that they wish to keep quiet for some period. They always point that out when they do. My point is that there isn't an assumption the information isn't to be shared unless told - the assumption is the information is free to be shared unless told not to.]

SS didn't want the times leaked before Wednesday, and they gave their newsletter folks a nice heads up so you could have a little more prep time. But I never saw anything - nor did I assume - that the times the exclusives would be on sale was a permanent secret.

Like I said, I didn't post times, and I only used the attending links, but affilliates were given this stuff Wednesday morning so they could make money (and so SS could make as much money as possible). I'm certainly not going to start blaming them for using the info they had to generate sales.

Michael
MWC

LOTR Fan

06-09-2005, 02:17 PM

Great system, I have no complaints, and I appreciate reading everyone's comments! I for one value the limited nature of exclusives, and I also managed to get those that I was after. But for those not fortunate enough, again this is the jagged edge of collecting. The ed sizes were noticeably smaller in most cases, and I suppose I prefer that; but with that being true the number of those shut out inevitably grows (go figure eh? :p ) So I suppose the only thing I may change (not really too sure I would want to) would be to up the ed sizes just a hair (for example from 1000 to 1500) to open the door for a few more collectors.

screamingmetal

06-09-2005, 02:30 PM

[EDIT - there are times that Sideshow includes information in BOTH newsletters that they wish to keep quiet for some period. They always point that out when they do. My point is that there isn't an assumption the information isn't to be shared unless told - the assumption is the information is free to be shared unless told not to.]

Just to inform you but Sideshow has stated to Dave that all the Links in the Newsletters we receive from Sideshow should NOT to be posted in the Sideshow Freaks forum.
So the opposite of what you stated is true at least for the links, that the links in the newsletter are confidential.

How should I know what information is put out by Sideshow to their affiliates?, I'm not an affiliate. And if Sideshow thought it was a good Idea to post the times and links to the Non-attendee order pages in affiliate websites, then they made a big mistake.

Chicky

06-09-2005, 02:52 PM

Thank you all for your constructive ideas. We do appreciate them and try to implement them whenever possible.

This year we did increase the non-attendee allotment, however these are still con excluisives so allowing increased percentage of an allotment seems to defeat the purposes of the Con exclusive.

We offered these items beginning early EST to help accommodate some of our international collectors' time zones. Due to the modest size of our web team, later or earlier postings are not possible. These products were also posted during the work week to utilize our customer service team who were available answer questions via e-mail and phone as well as book orders for our collector base who DO NOT have online access. Our server team was also available to make sure there were no technical issues with our site during this process.

Our ordering system was also revamped this year from the lottery system to a first come, first serve system. Non-attendees placed their orders directly without having to wait for the product to be distributed by lottery. As a courtesy we took wait list reservations for non-attendees, which will only be filled if non-attendees cancel their orders.

Outside of a few technical issues that some collectors had, which seemed to be caused more by their web connections and browsers, many collectors had a positive experience this year with our improved Ordering process.

We will continue to read your ideas for how we can improve our system even more for next year!

Best,
Chicky
Sideshow Collectibles

:dance :dance

Buttmunch

06-09-2005, 03:46 PM

Is the Patient Zero pic fuzzy for anyone else (attendee page)? Some of the words are faded out too. Is it supposed to like this - a very cool effect if it is- or is it just a technical error from either Sideshow's site or my computer?

ironman1188

06-09-2005, 03:50 PM

I don't know if its intentional or not , but, it was the same for me. :dunno

Bonehead15

06-09-2005, 04:31 PM

I for am very pleased with the new format. :dance

Moving it to the weekend would of been murder for me. I work every weekend so I would of missed out. I think everyone, I'd say 80% or more, are pretty pleased with the new format.

I can see where the overseas fans can be upset but really what was SS to do? To help out the overseas fans maybe SS could do what they did last year by setting aside some of the edition for direct purchase through overseas affiliates. Like they did for the Ultimate Hellboy this year.

I do though think that cetain websites posting the links was wrong. SS should of told them not to post the times and links until the day after. Newsletter subscribers should of got the exclusive first crack at the exclusives. Let's face we're SS's "bread and butter."

:skull

screamingmetal

06-09-2005, 04:34 PM

"Is the Patient Zero pic fuzzy for anyone else (attendee page)? Some of the words are faded out too. Is it supposed to like this - a very cool effect if it is- or is it just a technical error from either Sideshow's site or my computer?"

I went back to the Patient Zero page and it looks really screwed up, it wasn't like that for me yesterday. So it's not your computer doing that.

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 04:42 PM

Sorry, but I couldn't possibly disagree with you more on affiliates posting links.

First, understand this - the affilliates are SS's LIFEBLOOD. They have managed to get around retailers largely because of their excellent affilliate relationships, and their support of their affilliates. In turn, the success of the on-line store is directly due to the hard work by their affilliates.

Therefore, upsetting affilliates is NOT in SS's best interest. At all. If Sideshow is selling something on their site, then Sideshow's affilliate have the right to sell it. Anything else would simply be bad business.

Now, I can see them asking affilliates not to post links to the non-attending perhaps, or to not post times, if they want to try to keep it 'newsletter' only. But to reserve all sales on the site to their own links for the first day would have alienated a lot of affilliates, and that's not what SS is all about. Like I said, their savvy when it comes to this program has helped made them the success they are.

Michael
MWC

Bonehead15

06-09-2005, 04:53 PM

Michael,

No offense but I couldn't disagree with you more on affiliates posting links.>:

The CUSTOMERS are SS's LIFEBLOOD not the affiliates.

Oxbeard

06-09-2005, 04:53 PM

As a courtesy we took wait list reservations for non-attendees, which will only be filled if non-attendees cancel their orders.

Okay my heart just sank. So the waitlist will only be filled if non-attendee orders are cancelled? I had anticipated that it would also be filled with any orders not sold or picked up at SDCC as well. Did I just misunderstand, or is there another plan for any leftovers from the actual con?

dstephan

06-09-2005, 05:09 PM

I had anticipated that it would also be filled with any orders not sold or picked up at SDCC as well.
I think that's what she meant. Right now only the Lawgiver is sold out for attendees. As we get closer there are bound to be other sell-outs, but I wouldn't give up on those wait lists yet.

Michael Crawford MWC

06-09-2005, 05:12 PM

I realize that people believe that it's only the customer that counts...and lots of companies will tell you that's true. It's not though - sorry to say it.

Customers are critical, obviously. And yes, they pay the bills - me included. But there's a little more to it than that.

If a company is publicly held, the stockholders are as critical to them as the customers. They would never do anything for their customers that would alienate their stockholders. Bad business.

In SS's case, their handling of their affilliate relationship is the only reason they were able to make the switch from bricks and mortar retailers like TRU to their own online distribution. That was a HUGE change, no one had successfully done it before (with the action figure market), and yet they did. No one has successfully done it since, either. How they manage the affilliate relationship is the major contributor to that.

So while SS never wants to alienate customers, the certainly don't want to alienate the main way customers get to their product, get information about their product, and get hyped about their product.

Of course, customers are critical. But without the affilliates, Sideshow wouldn't have any customers, because their move to online only would have failed.

Sorry if you felt I was underestimating the value of a customer - I was simply trying to impress on everyone the importance of the affilliates for SS.

Michael
MWC

dstephan

06-09-2005, 05:20 PM

I agree that sites shouldn't post the times a day early so that non-newsletter subscribers could easily get the exclusives. But once they go on sale there is no reason that affiliates shouldn't post the links. After all, if you don't know the times the links don't do you any good anyway.

jlcmsu

06-09-2005, 06:15 PM

Not sure if I am understand part of this correctly. I know with my site I put up links to the items with their banners on my site early. That way people click could go to those items. I dont see anything wrong with that. Now, I didn't post any times on my site just the banners to the items. If its being said its wrong for affiliates to post banners of these items that doesnt make any sense to me at all.

screamingmetal

06-09-2005, 06:26 PM

"After all, if you don't know the times the links don't do you any good anyway."

In most the cases, the news sites put up both the times and the links.
If it was just the links I could live with that, people who didn't know the time would be sitting by their computer refreshing all day.

dstephan

06-09-2005, 11:31 PM

Thinking about all these comments, most people that can't go to the con would rather see exclusives like Luke and Lawgiver. Very basic variant of commonly available product. But looking around at the other companies that are doing exclusives, I see a lot of dissatisfaction with these types of exclusives and they aren't creating the buzz that Sideshow's are.

Why do a lackluster exclusive that is just there for the completeist, but most people could care less about?

B Electronic

06-10-2005, 02:07 AM

I can see where the overseas fans can be upset but really what was SS to do? To help out the overseas fans maybe SS could do what they did last year by setting aside some of the edition for direct purchase through overseas affiliates. Like they did for the Ultimate Hellboy this year.

Well I still think it would be a solution to let an item pass by twice on the same day. I had to wait till midnight before I could order Hellboy. Would have been even more painful if I'd waited till 2 am to get the LOTR bust.

Why do a lackluster exclusive that is just there for the completeist, but most people could care less about?

Cant agree more there. I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea of having a tiny variant as an SDCC exclusive. It would be like buying the new Hellboy dvd when it comes out, only to find out 2 months later that there's going to be a special 3 disc version. an exclusive should be just that, an exclsuive. Not a variant.

MiskatonicNick

06-10-2005, 04:31 AM

Why do a lackluster exclusive that is just there for the completeist, but most people could care less about?

That's my kinda exclusive :clap Let the completeists have their repaints and let the hordes of consumerdom have the cool new figures.

Nick

creecher

06-10-2005, 04:55 AM

Well I for one am most pleased to see Michael posting so abundantly. Your valued and respected views, as well as your insights into the affiliate connection, is well received.

I look at the Frankenstein Revnant, and recall it being rejected by affiliates as would not having much demand, when in my view, this figure would be in high demand. I thought this initial rejection was the reason why this figure had not yet seen the light of day.

I would say that the collector is the life blood of Sideshow, and that the affiliate is the life line, to that blood. I love the circular ring analogy, none without the other.

Has Sideshow started its push into the financial market, by providing a lay by type alternative? Answer; yes they have. To further progress along that line, could Sideshow provide a saver system, whereby funds from the collector could be amassed, pending purchase of one of their items? Such as a Con exclusive. Thereby, having fluidity and opening up for pre-paid pre-orders. Money in the bank. Profit being realised before the fact. Having that sort of financial back up might make for more confident production, and allow for more radical progress.

I would prefer not to see the exclusive available in any shape or form. Can you tell I'm not living in America? If I was I would buy nothing else. By having Sideshow regular figures, we have still seen a huge number of figures that would otherwise have never seen the drawing board. Exclusives do fulfill a purpose, however. One is that they have a direct feed to the profit available per unit. I had a second too, but I have lost track of my train of thought.
In another thread I said that new Sideshow product creates a 'buzz' no matter what they reveal. They shouldn't pander to market pressure. Someone said it was part of the deal if they were to attend the SDCC. If they made prototypes of unveiled figures available for Con attendees, would that not be a Con 'gift' to those that attend?

As Sideshow expands, I think it would be fair to have Con exclusives available to the European market through their European warehouse. Not fair to the rest of the world but a substantial step toward breaching the gap. In the future I would hope for an Australsian warehouse, and this idea could then be reapplied and further satisfy disgruntled collectors. The future holds much promise, and it's looking brighter all the time.

dstephan

06-10-2005, 09:47 AM

Creech, affiliates have nothing to do with why Revenant wash't released. If there was any outside influence on the decision not to produce it, it would be from dealers who didn't want to stock it. Affiliates are just websites like me and Michael who have direct links to Sideshow product (as above).

screamingmetal

06-10-2005, 12:22 PM

I'm sure Creecher was referring to large retailers like Sun Coast that weren't interested in carrying the Revenant figure. I wouldn't know if dealers where so much against it at the time, just the large retailers

dstephan

06-10-2005, 01:00 PM

Right, retailers - that's what I meant.

Ever have one of those brain farts where you can't remember a word? It's right there on the tip of your brain....but still inaccessible...

screamingmetal

06-10-2005, 01:06 PM

Ever have one of those brain farts where you can't remember a word? It's right there on the tip of your brain....but still inaccessible...

Unfortunately, more often then I would like. Some should've been easy for me to remember like.......um, ahhhhhhh..........oh, never mind :bang

warlock664

06-10-2005, 07:08 PM

QUOTE:
"the Lawgiver is the only one of the seven to sell out, and did so in just 40 minutes. I think that the fact it was coming got leaked so early, has kept POTA collectors from picking up the regular version, and they waited for this one."

MWC, while this SEEMS to make sense, I have to disagree that this is what happened. For one thing, yes, the identity of the "Vision Lawgiver" leaked early ( I was actually the one who started the first thread about it, after it was listed in the "arriving in the next 30 days" portion of a March Newsletter). But we didn't know FOR SURE until May 31 what the "Vision Lawgiver" would actually be ( although we had guessed correctly); nor did we know what the edition size would be, or if it was one of the SDCC Exclusives. Also, the original Lawgiver statue had already been available for pre-sell for several months; I can't imagine too many people held off ordering that one to wait on the exclusive, not knowing any of the exact details. At that point, anyone remotely interested in the Lawgiver had probably already ordered one.

Then too, even after seeing the "Vision" statue, I think most die-hard "Apes" fans, given a choice between the two, would select the original statue if they only had room for one or the other in their collection ( after all, the "Vision" statue was only a mirage created by the mutants and appears in one scene of "Beneath", whereas the original statue is depicted in several scenes across the movie series, and would lend itself to more authentic displays). And remember, even though the "Vision" statue is a low edition size piece (100), the original didn't exactly have a huge production run ( 700 or 750, if I'm recalling correctly).

No, I have to conclude that the VAST MAJORITY of these were purchased by dealers, speculators, or collectors with the intention of re-selling for a profit, either to pocket or to help defray the cost of another exclusive. I believe that when they saw the extremely low edition size of 100, they assumed there would be a secondary market for these that would support inflated prices. Already, I have seen 4 of these up for sell on ebay. 2 of them started off with a "Buy-It-Now" of $259.99; after a couple days with no "bites", the sellers have lowered the BIN to $199.99, and as of this time they still haven't sold. (And regarding those 2 auctions, while on the surface they seem to be offered by 2 different sellers, "hugeworm" and "bloodymurray", they have the EXACT SAME layout, wording, and pictures, are both from sellers located in Arlington, Tx, and are obviously being sold by the same person, so it seems the "1 per person" limit hasn't been too difficult to circumvent for scalpers).

I don't think the actual interest in this piece is that great, I just think the perception is that it will command a high price on the secondary market, but I think we'll see the interest in this piece will be lukewarm at best. Myself, I am an "Apes completest", and want one for my collection solely because I love the POTA Movie series. I have the original statue, and through the kindness of a member of this board ( thanks, Tom!), I'm lucky enough to have the "Vision" statue secured, even though I tried (and failed) to get one through Sideshow's "Collect-At-Home" offer. Although it might be unrealistic, I hope that, ultimately, these all find their way into the hands of POTA fans at around the original cost.

creecher

06-10-2005, 11:31 PM

Yeah quite right . My apologies to the affiliates.:bow It
was the damn retailers, lmao.

Now I have to apologise to the dealers, which I do, but not the damn dealers. You guys ruined it for us. :p

ironman1188

06-11-2005, 06:47 AM

(And regarding those 2 auctions, while on the surface they seem to be offered by 2 different sellers, "hugeworm" and "bloodymurray", they have the EXACT SAME layout, wording, and pictures, are both from sellers located in Arlington, Tx, and are obviously being sold by the same person, so it seems the "1 per person" limit hasn't been too difficult to circumvent for scalpers).

I noticed those "sellers" myself, but it was for Patient Zero AND WW Oz!!
And ebay seller "bluegaiga" has TWO Patient Zero's up and they're both under the same name!!! And he has TWO WW Oz!!! As a matter of fact, a quick ebay search for the SDCC exclusives shows many of the same "dealers" for each item. Kind of lucky they got thru for ALL of them when some of us couldn't [right Creech? ;) ]
Perhaps, the idea of a clause in Sideshow's wording for cancellation of the order should it show up on ebay is in order. But, who are they and how do you assure one's ebay ID is the same info they gave Sideshow?? That's why I like the "pre-order" thru the newsletter idea. It may take a little more work and/or time but could help to prevent this type of ebay action. Hopefully.

Michael Crawford MWC

06-11-2005, 07:14 AM

I don't know warlock - if the majority of the 100 were bought by dealers, why only 4 up for sale on ebay right now? And unlike stuff like Luke (with 14 up for sale) and Oz (with 11 up for sale), the BIN prices aren't double the SDCC price, even in the beginning.

I don't think a lot of dealers bought these - the original hasn't sold well, and for scalpers, and initial investment of $150 better well be a pretty sure thing. $50 for an Oz? Not such a big deal, but $150 for something likely to sit around? That's usually not their deal.

One way or another, the lawgiver is certainly an aberration.

Michael
MWC

DetroitSportsFan

06-11-2005, 10:05 AM

And regarding those 2 auctions, while on the surface they seem to be offered by 2 different sellers, "hugeworm" and "bloodymurray", they have the EXACT SAME layout, wording, and pictures, are both from sellers located in Arlington, Tx, and are obviously being sold by the same person, so it seems the "1 per person" limit hasn't been too difficult to circumvent for scalpers
They (if they are different sellers) have had every single SS exclusive for sale on eBay. >:

creecher

06-11-2005, 10:09 AM

I have to go along with Ironman, I was disappointed to miss out on PZero an WW oz, it all led up to a very tense an exciting day. Co-ordinated ever so kindly by Sideshows Master of the web, Chris. My feelings of loss were all turned around by getting the Ultimate HellBoy. The support of those in chat and Chris were the telling factors. I was fortunate, too, that so many people were able to help me directly, or direct me to a source, to acquire both the exclusives Zero and Oz. My exclusion from the wait list means those on it have a greater hope in obtaining their wants.

The spotlight now points to the attendees. Is it fair for attendees not to be able to obtain the exclusive of there choice? Not providing the "Con gift" would be rather lack lustre.

So how can Sideshow do it next? Well, it sounds like the question suggests there will be these 'con exclusives'. Which nullifies my tack of not having exclusives at all. Not having gone to the Con I have various ideas on what is expected by visitors to it, from it. To take the opposite tack I'd say Sideshow should do it as a complete, on-line, pre-order, no limit, except. Except have it pre announced way in advance and every newletter there after, that at a certain time, for a certain period, orders will be taken and fulfilled. Taking the attitude that the con is a global experience, able to be visited in person, or on-line as a non-attendee. The pre-orders taken, set the limit number of any particular item.

Viking28

06-11-2005, 12:19 PM

If they went ahead and did that for a con "exclusive" were you order it for so long or whatever. You might as well just make it a regular release and if you want you can pick your stuff up at the con.

ironman1188

06-11-2005, 01:22 PM

jlcmsu

06-11-2005, 04:15 PM

Yeah, I totally feel for people feeling shafted because they like creech live outside the US or they can't go to the show. If a character is used that they want at the show it does suck for them.

Exclusives though are fun and annoying at the same time. I think though thats why they are fun because they are annoying. It just adds something a little special to the line or going to an event. I totally disagree with just doing some BS item for a Con or doing away with it totally. These items have to be something special enough to make people interested in them and possibly grab someone who might start collecting them. Its all about marketing.

creecher

06-11-2005, 04:35 PM

Well Okay, that's the idea. :lol Make everyone happy. It's just a matter of perspective and attitude. The thing being, it wont be like a regular release, it will be a Con exclusive.

Not everyone will be able to order, some will be away, and it's too bad if you start collecting later. There wont be any more made, than are ordered, in the particular time frame. Sideshow gain newsletter members and its marketing opportunities. The idea can be altered. The ordering period could be announced the week before. The times in which an order can be made can be restricted to an hour a day, at a different time each day, to accomodate overseas time zones. It could all be done at the Comic Con, with a live feed of the Sideshow stand in one window, orders taken in another, while you chat in yet another. An attenting non- attendee. Its just an idea and an answer to the title of the thread.

Oops. looks like I used the wrong word too, two posts back, I meant damn retailers, not dealers. Sorry. :lol I wont have to apologise to a faceless retail chain will I? We hates them don't we? And who is the face behind the Comic Con. No-one, so don't pander to the bullies Sideshow. Do things the Sideshow way. Empower the little man, the collector that can't get laid, the disadavantaged Sidshow Freak, against the bully boys, meeting their criteria and laying down a new set of rules.

You rock our boat Sideshow :rock2 Now rock theirs :rock2

warlock664

06-11-2005, 07:01 PM

Actually, MWC, the initial "BIN" prices for the Vision Lawgiver on ebay WERE double the retail price ( actually a bit more, at $299; there was even one with a BIN of $499!) Only after a couple of days of no interest from bidders were the BINs dropped ( I've seen a few at $199, still no takers). Obviously, items like the Luke ( much larger fan base for Star Wars ) and Werewolf Oz ( smaller initial price), are going to attract more immediate sales and interest, and it would stand to reason more of these would be auctioned early on. And, too, remember that there are 5 times as many "Lukes" available ( 500 vs 100) and 7.5 times more Oz's (750 vs 100) than "Vision Lawgivers", so obviously there would be more auctions for those. Many speculators could just be lying in the weeds waiting to see what the market will bear for the Lawgiver piece, before either offering it for sale OR cancelling their orders ( and currently there are several more auctions on ebay going for the Lawgiver piece, and unless I'm mistaken one hasn't sold yet).

I also didn't mean to imply that the majority of these had sold to dealers, if that was the impression I gave, but to SPECULATORS, some of whom may very well BE dealers, or ebay scalpers, or collectors hoping to turn a profit to defray the cost of, say, Luke. I would like to think the majority of these are going directly into the hands of POTA collectors, but I really, really doubt it. I just think the "100 Piece Edition Size" tag was too irresistible a lure for buyers, already stoked up after purchasing Patient Zero, Thor's Hammer and Luke Skywalker Exclusives, to pass up. The fever had hit, and I'm sure there were many folks who found themselves logging in every 2 hours to buy items they normally wouldn't have. I myself bought a "Hooded Rohirrim" bust, and even though I'm a big LOTR fan, I don't own any other Sideshow/WETA pieces, outside of the DVD premiums. But having missed both Luke and Lawgiver, I thought I might at least be able to barter a trade for the Lawgiver using the LOTR piece.

As a POTA fan/collector myself, I still say, given the choice between the original Lawgiver or the Exclusive, most fans would prefer the "plain" version vs. the "bloody" version for their collection, if they could only have one, and wouldn't have waited to purchase the Exclusive that we weren't really sure about, anyway ( sicko that I am, though, I gotta have 'em both!).

ironman1188

06-12-2005, 04:48 AM

So...basicly...no one would go to SDCC if Sideshow didn't have an exclusive for them??
If they would go anyway, then, the type of "at show" exclusive is somewhat moot. Any exclusive would be something extra and "special" and would be above and beyond the thrill and fun of just being able to attend the show.

VTX

06-12-2005, 08:22 AM

To make it more FAIR these should be done on the weekend as I did not even have a chance. I am not whining but I feel that I have been let-down by SS being that I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on purchases from them and then not even having a chance at an exclusive did piss me off. I had to WORK to earn money to pay for POLYTSTONE...:lol
ALSO............:idea
There are many collectors that have spent major bucks on purchases from SS so how about a GOLD CLUB or something where you are a member when you reach a certain dollar amount of purchases from SS. Then these Gold Club members would have exclusive collectibles offered to them first or items only available to GC members..
:yay
Bill
:gandalf

Oxbeard

06-12-2005, 12:38 PM

A gold club does sound good on the surface, but would have its own inherent problems. It would only be feasible to track purchases directly through SS. This would 1)hurt our board dealers and other retailers and 2) create a very difficult descision for customers (would the GC benefits be worth paying the higher prices directly from SS and losing discounts given through various dealers, or would it be worth be left out in the cold again on certain exclusives or GC perks to continue to save money by buying through dealers for less.)

Just like everything else, there is no 100% right or wrong. No method is going to work for everyone.

BTVSnut

06-13-2005, 02:50 PM

I'm a little confused by this:

That's why I like the "pre-order" thru the newsletter idea. It may take a little more work and/or time but could help to prevent this type of ebay action. Hopefully.

... and by other comments I have seen about email subscribers getting first dibs. As far as I know, anyone who orders from Sideshow direct automatically gets put on the newsletter? Or am I wrong about that? So obviously these guys selling on Ebay are also newsletter subscribers, no? And if there was a Collector's Club, they'd be in that too. I just think there is no possible way to keep scalpers from getting their hands on these items - companies can make it harder by limiting to 1 per person, but that's not going to stop it. If you take the time to set up multiple accounts, then you can get around that rule, etc. Scalping, unfortunately, is a fact of life, due to the importance of money in our society. :( It is in no way the company's fault.

And no, there will never be any "perfect" method... for anything: politics, religion, relationships, selling collectibles - SOMEONE will always be pissed. The most any company can do is make the greatest number of people happy that they can. And I saw SSC as really trying as hard as they could to do that this year... and it took a lot of work on their part as such a small company, as Chicky pointed out earlier. Not to say that there's not any room for improvement, only that no one can get it right without making mistakes along the way and learning from them. So :clap for SSC for trying harder than most companies to make people happy!