NOT GOOD: New Line's Bob Shaye on PJ

[Lembas Eater]

Bob Shaye of New Line was interviewed on SciFi.com, saying the he will never work with a director that is suing him.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=39462

So heres back to hoping that THE HOBBIT is delayed until the rights return to Saul Zaentz, who at last word was still backing Peter Jackson.


I said it when all this first came to light: I hope the lesson of this mess is not "Don't sue your studio for money you deserve".

[pixletwin]

Meh. Nothings changed. PJ said he will not work with a studio he is suing as well.

[Lembas Eater]

True, but the escalation of nastiness is disturbing.

[Batty]

Shaye said that many of the Rings trilogy actors "suddenly, because, I'm guessing, of Peter's complaint," have declined to participate in celebrating New Line's 40th anniversary. "I'm incredibly offended," he said. "I don't care about Peter Jackson anymore.

He sounds like a eight-year-old who's upset because no one came to his birthday party.

[pixletwin]

He sounds like a eight-year-old who's upset because no one came to his birthday party.

exactly.. he is totally trying to save face there by making it look like a matter of principle when in reality his knees are knocking, nose is runny, and he just pissed his pants.

[The Josh]

Screw Shaye. Screw NL. Screw anybody working for that POS company.

I hope MGM, Saul, and PJ break it off in there ass.

[pixletwin]

Screw Shaye. Screw NL. Screw anybody working for that POS company.

I hope MGM, Saul, and PJ break it off in there ass.

:lol So how do you really feel about Josh? :lol

[Fritz]

I don't understand how only New Line is to blame since no one has actual details. How can we assume PJ isn't asking for more than he is owed? And before you all condemn New Line solely, remember PJ wanted Lord of the Rings in two movies, it was New Line that suggested three. My point is, I don't think PJ is absolved of any blame here. They both need to get the heads out of their asses and get this thing done and stop acting like two year olds.

[The Godfather]

Raise your hand if you think the Hobbit by PJ with weta would gross 800,000,000 + world wide. IF its a two part easily over a billion and if there is as reported another Middle Earth based movie we are talking billions.

I can not believe the accountants are not just saying to both parties shut your mouth there is money to be made. The stats from LOTR are below.


$867,683,093 FOTR World Wide Gross
$926,284,377 TTT World Wide Gross
$1,129,027,325 ROTK World Wide Gross
$2,922,994,795 Total Gross for the LOTR Trilogy

There are two sides to everything and someone needs to swallow some pride here for the sake of the art. I swear that is the corniest thing I have ever posted LOL.

[The Josh]

:lol So how do you really feel about Josh? :lol

:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

Fritz,

I agree PJ isn't blame free but New Line is the one with more cards than he so they're calling the shots. Which is why I say firetruck them.

[Bannister]

I don't understand how only New Line is to blame since no one has actual details. How can we assume PJ isn't asking for more than he is owed? And before you all condemn New Line solely, remember PJ wanted Lord of the Rings in two movies, it was New Line that suggested three. My point is, I don't think PJ is absolved of any blame here. They both need to get the heads out of their asses and get this thing done and stop acting like two year olds.
exactly.:clap

[pixletwin]

I don't understand how only New Line is to blame since no one has actual details. How can we assume PJ isn't asking for more than he is owed?

Fritz, PJ isn't asking New Line for money. He is asking that an independent audit of profits be conducted. Whatever the findings are from that audit, PJ will accept.

New Line doesn't want an audit. Why? Prolly because they screwed him outta some money. :cool:

[Bannister]

Raise your hand if you think the Hobbit by PJ with weta would gross 800,000,000 + world wide. IF its a two part easily over a billion and if there is as reported another Middle Earth based movie we are talking billions.

I can not believe the accountants are not just saying to both parties shut your mouth there is money to be made. The stats from LOTR are below.


$867,683,093 FOTR World Wide Gross
$926,284,377 TTT World Wide Gross
$1,129,027,325 ROTK World Wide Gross
$2,922,994,795 Total Gross for the LOTR Trilogy

There are two sides to everything and someone needs to swallow some pride here for the sake of the art. I swear that is the corniest thing I have ever posted LOL.
Yeah here are my thoughts on both sides summed up in a simple emoticon.:violin

[The Josh]

Yeah here are my thoughts on both sides summed up in a simple emoticon.:violin

That is very true.

[LOTRFan]

Screw Shaye. Screw NL. Screw anybody working for that POS company.

Wouldn't that remotely include Sideshow, they are still holding many of their licenses. :lol :rotfl :monkey3

[Bannister]

Wouldn't that remotely include Sideshow, they are still holding many of their licenses. :lol :rotfl :monkey3
:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl

[abstractharmony]

Fritz, PJ isn't asking New Line for money. He is asking that an independent audit of profits be conducted. Whatever the findings are from that audit, PJ will accept.

New Line doesn't want an audit. Why? Prolly because they screwed him outta some money. :cool:


I was just about to post this...

PJ is the bees knees and SSC should license ALL of his properties (except maybe King Kong - vanity project!)

[The Josh]

Wouldn't that remotely include Sideshow, they are still holding many of their licenses. :lol :rotfl :monkey3

Well, they don't work for NL they work with. See there ya go. :lol

[Fritz]

Fritz, PJ isn't asking New Line for money. He is asking that an independent audit of profits be conducted. Whatever the findings are from that audit, PJ will accept.
New Line doesn't want an audit. Why? Prolly because they screwed him outta some money. :cool:

So says PJ in a public letter. This is typical of something an agent would say to the press in the NFL when he wants something (ie. more money) for his client than he is worth. Why would PJ bring that up publically? I'm sure the studio has more to worry about than just PJ's cut of profits etc should an independant auditor get a hold of the books. PJ probably nows they won't do a independant audit which makes it easy for him to bring that out publically to generate sympathy for himself. Studio's are slimeballs so I'm sure they have much to hide from an independant audit. LOL. I don't want to sound like I'm against PJ and pro NewLine because I'm not. But I don't think it's that simple. I still don't think they are both without blame simply because I don't know who's lying and who's not and in all likelyhood, they both probably are so I won't take PJ's word over Newline just like I won't take Newline's over PJ.

[King Darkness]

They can all blow it out their collective asses!!!! Its just rich people trying to get richer!

[Fritz]

They can all blow it out their collective asses!!!! Its just rich people trying to get richer!

That's what I was trying to say but you put it into words better than I could. :rotfl

[Nitro]

They should replace PJ with George Lucas to direct the Hobbit....


...kidding....kidding :lol :rotfl :lol

[King Darkness]

That's what I was trying to say but you put it into words better than I could. :rotfl


I have moments of pure genius. Sadly they are very few and very far between:cool:

[carbo-fation]

They should replace PJ with George Lucas to direct the Hobbit....


...kidding....kidding :lol :rotfl :lol
:lol I much rather have no Hobbit at all than GL directing it!

[tomandshell]

Luckily for all of us, Brett Ratner has a long-standing working relationship with New Line.

He is the perfect man to bring in for this project following the fall out with Singer.

I mean, PJ.

[Bannister]

Luckily for all of us, Brett Ratner has a long-standing working relationship with New Line.

He is the perfect man to bring in for this project following the fall out with Singer.

I mean, PJ.
So what part will Chris Tucker play. Bilbo you crazy, CRAAAAAAAAZY!!!!!!!

[tomandshell]

Philip Baker Hall will make an awesome Gandalf in Ratner's Hobbit:

http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/premiere_photo/20050831/11/3220122537.jpg

Saul Rubinek can be Bilbo:

http://ecomm.mercanti.it/dvdstore/Foto/DPT1850_1040503201329.jpg

Harris Yulin can be Elrond:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/c/c8/Q_Travers.jpg

Ken Leung can be the Elven King:

http://images.zap2it.com/20050203/02_kenleung_suckerfreecity.jpg

And the magic of CGI can bring Chris Penn back for one final triumphant performance as the Goblin King:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Chris_Penn.jpg

I guess that leaves Charlie Sheen to provide the voice of both Gollum and Smaug.

[darthviper107]

Now you're just being nasty.


New Line needs to just get over it. No one really cares about them, I wouldn't care if PJ sued them for all they're money and they went bankrupt, I just want a good Hobbit movie that's made well and isn't influenced by NL's crappy studio.

[Fritz]

I have a thought...

They can all go to hell. :devil I think I'll read the book again! :read :rock

Tolkien :bow > PJ + New Line :(

[SideshowDusty]

I have a thought...

They can all go to hell. :devil I think I'll read the book again! :read :rock

Tolkien :bow > PJ + New Line :(

GREAT point Fritz. I'll go ahead and say it... Tolkien is spinning in his grave right now :lol

[Darth Caedus]

Tolkien :bow > PJ + New Line :(

While I love PJ's LoTR, truer words have NEVER been said.

[lcummins]

GREAT point Fritz. I'll go ahead and say it... Tolkien is spinning in his grave right now :lol


Actually, he probably started spinning back in the 70's with the Bakshi version and his rotation has been gaining momentum ever since! Soon, his rotation will cause the Earth to wobble and it's orbit to change bringing total destruction to us all!!! :D

[Darth Caedus]

Actually, he probably started spinning back in the 70's with the Bakshi version and his rotation has been gaining momentum ever since! Soon, his rotation will cause the Earth to wobble and it's orbit to change bringing total destruction to us all!!! :D

To be fair, PJ's LoTR is the best depiction of Tolkien's story in cinema. It was true to most of the story and made excellent movies. Compare that to the horrible animated version I saw, I wanted to gnaw my own leg off so I could stop watching it.

[Bannister]

GREAT point Fritz. I'll go ahead and say it... Tolkien is spinning in his grave right now :lol
That or laughing his ass off at all of us getting so bent out of shape about it.

[Wetanut]

Bottom line: IF NewLine/Shaye feels they've been wrongfully accused by Jackson, then why are they so resistant to the audit? Jackson never said the audit would prove that he'd been screwed out of more money (but I'm reading that in between the lines). Why is NewLine needing to get sued by Zaentz first, then a threat of suit by the LOTR actors next, then yet another suit by Jackson over the same things....bookkeeping and fair distribution of $$. NOW NewLine gets on the Principle wagon? BS.

[gtb]

I have a thought...

They can all go to hell. :devil I think I'll read the book again! :read :rock

Tolkien :bow > PJ + New Line :(

Only the Original works will stand the test of time, which when when written has totally nothing to do with money...

Things always happens when money is involved....

[tomandshell]

I have a feeling that PJ probably said that they could give him $100 million or else submit to an independent audit, the results of which he would accept.

If that's the case, then New Line can honestly say that he wants 100 million from them, and PJ can honestly say that he has asked for an independent audit. Both can make public statements from their perspective and sound "right." Issues like this are always a lot more complex than the public statements let on.

[Bannister]

I have a feeling that PJ probably said that they could give him $100 million or else submit to an independent audit, the results of which he would accept.

If that's the case, then New Line can honestly say that he wants 100 million from them, and PJ can honestly say that he has asked for an independent audit. Both can make public statements from their perspective and sound "right." Issues like this are always a lot more complex than the public statements let on.
You mean there are actually parts of the story the public doesn't know. I can't believe it.:rotfl

[DouglasMcc]

I have a thought...

They can all go to hell. :devil I think I'll read the book again! :read :rock

Tolkien :bow > PJ + New Line :(


While I don't necessarily disagree with that statement (hell, 99.9% of the time, the book is always better than the movie ...), you are missing the main importance of Peter Jackson and those movies. PJ brought Lord of the Rings back from the brink of obscurity. His movies energized the material and connected it to popular culture in a way that virtually guarantees the works will remain strong and upfront for generations to come.

Now, Lord of the Rings was famous before the movies. But, it wasn't part of our CULTURE. It was those "weird books the geeks talk about at their Dungeons and Dragon's conventions." It had a strong presence in the fantasy fandom, but was dying a slow death in the public eye. Gone were the glory days of the 70's ... gone were the FRODO LIVES! graffiti days, gone were the pop/rock songs about Mordor. In truth, circa 2001, if you asked 10 random people on the street about Lord of the Rings, you would get 1 of 2 answers, "oh, that crappy little cartoon I saw as a kid" or, even sadder, "what?" PJ and his films changed that.

We now have Lord of the Rings video games, action figures, 70 dollar "collector's figures", 300 dollar statues, etc. Heck, we have Frodo bed sheets and halloween costumes. We have an entirely new generation of children who are connecting with the material ... its been called "this generation's Star Wars". But more importantly for Tolkien and his fans, its introduced a new generation of our culture to the WRITTEN WORKS. As a teacher, I have seen a huge number of children in middle and high school reading these books over the last few years. I bet, no, I guarantee that 90% of them would still not know what Lord of the Rings was if not for Peter Jackson.

So, believe what you want about Jackson and/or New Line. Call them greedy ... call them childish. But NEVER underestimate PJ and the movies influence on the LOTR material we love. The written works were strong enough to stand the test of time as geek fodder. The movies turned it into pop culture gold that will last forever.

[Wetanut]

I was one of those book "geeks" from the '60s & '70s. During and since the movies, my son and countless others I know who couldn't abide to open a book read them for the first time and became transported by Tolkien's magic. The magic of the films led them all to explore more.

GREAT post DoubMcc!!!!

[Lembas Eater]

From Ain't-it-cool-news, Peter Jackson and Wingnut have made an official response to Shaye's statements:

"Our issue with New Line Cinema has only ever been about their refusal to account for financial anomalies that surfaced from a partial audit of The Fellowship of the Ring. Contrary to recent comments made by Bob Shaye, we attempted to discuss the issues raised by the Fellowship audit with New Line for over a year but the studio was and continues to be completely uncooperative. This has compelled us to file a lawsuit to pursue our contractual rights under the law. Nobody likes taking legal action, but the studio left us with no alternative.

For over two years, New Line has denied us the ability to audit The Two Towers and The Return of the King, despite repeated requests. Film auditing is a common and straightforward practice within the industry and we don't understand why New Line Cinema has taken this position.

In light of these circumstances, I didn't think it was appropriate for me to be involved in New Line Cinema's 40th Anniversary video. I have never discussed this video with any of the cast of The Lord of the Rings. The issues that Bob Shaye has with the cast pre-date this law suit by many years.

Fundamentally, our legal action is about holding New Line to it's contractual obligations and promises. It is regrettable that Bob has chosen to make it personal. I have always had the highest respect and affection for Bob and other senior management at New Line and continue to do so."

[Wetanut]

ding-ding-ding-ding! Round 4 in this boxing match.

[The Josh]

NL is losing the PR Battle IMO and they are doing whatever they can. I don't think NL will get it off the ground in time before Zanetz gets it back.

I agree with Douglass in his post. As a Teacher I know PJ's impact on LOTR in today's culture and he hit it on the head.

[Fritz]

...PJ brought Lord of the Rings back from the brink of obscurity...

PJ + Weta + New Line + Viggo Mortensen + Ian McKellan + Sala Baker + etc... brought Lord of the Rings back to the forefront, that I agree with 100%! :rock

[Bannister]

PJ + Weta + New Line + Viggo Mortensen + Ian McKellan + Sala Baker + etc... brought Lord of the Rings back to the forefront, that I agree with 100%! :rock
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/student_toe5/rockstar.gifhttp://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/student_toe5/rockstar.gifhttp://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/student_toe5/rockstar.gif

[DouglasMcc]

PJ + Weta + New Line + Viggo Mortensen + Ian McKellan + Sala Baker + etc... brought Lord of the Rings back to the forefront, that I agree with 100%! :rock

I didn't mean to imply that PJ was the sole reason for the LOTR re-emergence as a cultural powerhouse. But he started it all. He pushed and pushed for years before any studio was willing to give his vision a chance. He was the main force behind picking talents such as McKellan and Mortensen, who went on to BECOME our childhood heroes. Not sure if everyone remembers, but people bashed him viciously when it was revealed that Viggo had been chosen for Strider. "Ah man, they picked the G.I. Jane dude?!? This movie will sux." ... the flames flicked higher and higher for months. But PJ stuck behind the casting and now, I truly cannot image a single named actor other than Viggo who could have become Strider.

PJ may not have been the sole person, but he certainly was the heart and soul. I truly doubt the trilogy would have ever been made without his dedication.

[Fritz]

...PJ may not have been the sole person, but he certainly was the heart and soul....

I agree, I don't think there is any doubt.

...I truly doubt the trilogy would have ever been made without his dedication.

Remember it was New Line that wanted a Trilogy. PJ's inital script was for two movies. Who knows how PJ's initial script would have turned out.

[DouglasMcc]

I agree, I don't think there is any doubt.



Remember it was New Line that wanted a Trilogy. PJ's inital script was for two movies. Who knows how PJ's initial script would have turned out.

I cannot remember where, but I do remember reading back in between the releases of TTT and ROTK an interview where they actual brought this point up. Peter Jackson's response was that he did not think he could get a commitment for 3 films. That's why he went into the pitches with the 2 film concept. I will give NL credit for seeing the wisdom of 3 films. Cutting 3 hours from the masterpieces we already have? I just don't see where it could have been done.

[Lembas Eater]

Remember it was New Line that wanted a Trilogy. PJ's inital script was for two movies.

Thats why it hurts that the company that took possibly the biggest risk in movie history, indeed the very man that did say "why not three movies?", is quibbling and throwing mud at the man who made these movies.

[Fritz]

Bob Shaye's comments were pretty stupid, especially stating them publicly and something that would get many people fired. Could it be that the pressure to make the Hobbit is getting to him?

[The Josh]

Bob Shaye's comments were pretty stupid, especially stating them publicly and something that would get many people fired. Could it be that the pressure to make the Hobbit is getting to him?

I'm sure it is. THey know they're SOL honestly. They can make the movie but MGM I don't think will go out and distribute it. They want PJ because they know he's big bucks guarantee.

[King Darkness]

I said it once and I'll say it again, to hell with all these rich douche bags who ALL need to shut the hell up. They sound like school girls arguing about who kissed who's boyfriend.

[LOTRFan]

For this boxing match a Kurgan would make the best referee.

[TolkienCollector]

Bob Shaye is a tit!!! :thwak:thwak:slap:slap

TC :confused:

[Customikey]

I have LOTR. I want Hobbit, but I don't need it.

[darthviper107]

That sounds funny.

"I WANT HOBBIT! I WANT HOBBIT NOW!!":cuss

[Synergy]

Shaye is an idiot .................... enough said

[cougartrace]

Synergy couldn't have said it better..

[Khev]

I have LOTR. I want Hobbit, but I don't need it.
My sentiments exactly. I would even extend that to:

I have LOTR and the animated "The Hobbit." I want a PJ directed live-action Hobbit, but don't need it.

[tomandshell]

PJ's official response:

Our issue with New Line Cinema has only ever been about their refusal to account for financial anomalies that surfaced from a partial audit of The Fellowship of the Ring. Contrary to recent comments made by Bob Shaye, we attempted to discuss the issues raised by the Fellowship audit with New Line for over a year but the studio was and continues to be completely uncooperative. This has compelled us to file a lawsuit to pursue our contractual rights under the law. Nobody likes taking legal action, but the studio left us with no alternative.

For over two years, New Line has denied us the ability to audit The Two Towers and The Return of the King, despite repeated requests. Film auditing is a common and straightforward practice within the industry and we don't understand why New Line Cinema has taken this position.

In light of these circumstances, I didn't think it was appropriate for me to be involved in New Line Cinema's 40th Anniversary video. I have never discussed this video with any of the cast of The Lord of the Rings. The issues that Bob Shaye has with the cast pre-date this law suit by many years.

Fundamentally, our legal action is about holding New Line to it's contractual obligations and promises. It is regrettable that Bob has chosen to make it personal. I have always had the highest respect and affection for Bob and other senior management at New Line and continue to do so.

[The Josh]

Cat Fight!!

[abstractharmony]

Bob Shaye is a tit!!! :


Post of the thread!

I just KNEW you were English before I looked across.

:lol

[ZombieReign]

Part of NL's fear of an audit has got to be the fact that Jackson isn't the only one that stands to gain if something is found in his favor. Others would be entitled to money as well (if it was part of their contract).

Shaye and NL have got to be shaking in their boots over this, because I think they know it isn't going to end well for them.

Could you imagine the firestorm caused if an audit reveals that Jackson (and others) are due money? Other productions would likely requests audits as well.

Shaye has to know that a Jackson-less Hobbit won't sit well with the fans, and could severly hurt the revenue of any future film(s). NL has got to get this patched up in order to save face and protect future profits.

Think about all of the die-hard LOTR fans around the world. Don't you think that they would boycott The Hobbit if Jackson wasn't involved? I don't think I'd see it (at least not in a theater) because I know it just wouldn't have the same feeling to it. As well as the fact that a number of the cast have openly said they would not do it without him at the helm.

[Customikey]

Shaye has to know that a Jackson-less Hobbit won't sit well with the fans, and could severly hurt the revenue of any future film(s). NL has got to get this patched up in order to save face and protect future profits.

Think about all of the die-hard LOTR fans around the world. Don't you think that they would boycott The Hobbit if Jackson wasn't involved? I don't think I'd see it (at least not in a theater) because I know it just wouldn't have the same feeling to it. As well as the fact that a number of the cast have openly said they would not do it without him at the helm.


In a perfect world, this would be true. But the fact is, most of the movie-going public, the popcorn munchers who readily lump LOTR in with D&D or Eragon, wouldn't know the difference or even care about who's name is heading the production. If they remember liking LOTR, then they'll line up for The Hobbit, even if they see Uwe Boll above the title. Most people just don't know. And short of that dreaded name being signed on, if the previews look good and the production looks respectful and respectable, I'd probably plunk down the money to see it. The fact is, as much as I adore Ian McKellan, he's not the only man in the world who could play Gandalf. Who's to say Peter O'Toole wouldn't have done an amazing job as well? The same can be said for the whole cast. Am I saying they're readilly interchangeable? No. But if they line up good people, I'll go. I'll miss the old friends before and behind the camera, though.

Oh...and Bob Shaye is indeed a tit.

[Wetanut]

In a perfect world, this would be true. But the fact is, most of the movie-going public, the popcorn munchers who readily lump LOTR in with D&D or Eragon, wouldn't know the difference or even care about who's name is heading the production. If they remember liking LOTR, then they'll line up for The Hobbit, even if they see Uwe Boll above the title. Most people just don't know. And short of that dreaded name being signed on, if the previews look good and the production looks respectful and respectable, I'd probably plunk down the money to see it. The fact is, as much as I adore Ian McKellan, he's not the only man in the world who could play Gandalf. Who's to say Peter O'Toole wouldn't have done an amazing job as well? The same can be said for the whole cast. Am I saying they're readilly interchangeable? No. But if they line up good people, I'll go. I'll miss the old friends before and behind the camera, though.

Oh...and Bob Shaye is indeed a tit.

I also think that many will go regardless of who's in the directing chair or the stars. But....and this is the critical "BUT"....if it doesn't fall in with feel and look that Jackson and company gave us for LOTR, those very same moviegoers will not return for subsequent showings. And if they were really put out by the changes, then word of mouth will ensure that it will not be a blockbuster. I suspect that much of the success of SW and LOTR movies came from word of mouth and repeaters. Repeaters were probably also a large part of the phenomenal success of Titanic.

As for the cast, I've always wondered what O'Toole would have done with Gandalf (since he was my first choice in the fantasy casting) or any other solid actor. But, let's face it....McKellan IS Gandalf now and forever in almost everyone's eyes. Whatever actor takes on the role would be committing professional suicide. I can only presume that either ego/hubris would drive a respected and established actor to take it on; if an "unknown", then it's a play for recognition, no matter how ill-advised. Same goes for the directors IMO.

"Tit" Shaye has definitely painted himself in a corner with his reply.

[The Josh]

I agree that people will go to see it. I doubt I would go see it in the theater. I sure as heck wouldn't be a repeater and that is where a lot of movies that make BIG bucks make them.

I agree now that PJ & Crew (actors included) have done these parts nobody else is fit IMO to do them. They have established what I felt from the books the characters should have been. I think outside of a very special few it would hurt them in their careers (possibly) if they did not pull off the perfect job.

Shaye hasn't helped himself out with this, because now I'm sure anyone reading is going to ask themselves do I really want to step into this. Not to mention at what point this year do the rights revert back to SZ? MGM, SZ, PJ, I think now more than ever would be rubbing their hands waiting for this because Shaye and NL can't really go out and make a $150-$200 million dollar film that they can't distribute.

[Fritz]

...Oh...and Bob Shaye is indeed a tit.

I don't agree. I don't really like Bob Shaye. :monkey3

[tomandshell]

I would certainly go see a major film production of The Hobbit, without a doubt.

Would I enjoy it as much if PJ didn't make it, or if it didn't have McKellen or music by Shore? Would it take its place alongside the original trilogy as one of my all-time favorites? No, it probably wouldn't. But I would at least go see it out of curiosity. I am a Tolkien fan first (a little under twenty years and counting) and a PJ fan second (a little over five years and counting). In a perfect world we would see the film done by PJ & Co., but that looks like it just won't be happening. Now if Sam Raimi or Guillermo Del Toro or James Cameron or Steven Spielberg or Bryan Singer or Ridley Scott were hired to make it, it would be a different movie every time. But in each case, it would at least be worth seeing, in my opinion. It wouldn't be a PJ Hobbit, but I am too much a fan of Middle Earth to say that I would boycott it altogether.

And if New Line makes it with Brett Ratner, they could still start the first trailer with, "From the studio that brought you the Lord of the Rings trilogy" and include introductory footage and music from the trilogy, then the vast majority of the audience would accept that as equal to "From the director of the Lord of the Rings trilogy." In fact, I think that seeing those words in front of The Lovely Bones will positively impact the box office for that film to a lesser degree than a different director will negatively impact a non-PJ Hobbit. If they can say that it's from the original studio and even tack on "from the producer of LOTR" then a heck of a lot of average joes just aren't going to know any better.

But most of all, it just stinks for the real fans who do know better, and who are going to miss out on a Peter Jackson directed Hobbit...

All because of "a little bit of money."

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/e/e3/250px-Frances_McDormand_2.jpg

[Radagaster]

Realistically, I don't know of to many people who don't associate PJ with LOTR. And I think people know that LOTR is a big hit. I don't think they'll associate it with the likes of D&D or Eragon either. Given that, NL will only hurt themselves by holding out. I see them losing out more than PJ.

[jaffakitkat]

Just asking here in case anyone knows the ins and outs of entertainment law, which I really don't. How does it work with the rights if New Line does start making a version of The Hobbit? Do the rights still fall back to Zaentz at the same time, but New Line would be allowed to finish production of their version? Or does it delay the rights changing hands if production is still underway (this would seem unlikely, but who knows)? Or would New Line have to squeeze production in before their rights expire?

This stuff confuses me. But I completely agree that Bob Shaye is a tit.

[The Josh]

That's a good question. I don't see why NL would even make it unless MGM wants to distribute. As far as SZ well I wanna know when in 07 does it go back?

[Corwin]

That's a good question. I don't see why NL would even make it unless MGM wants to distribute. As far as SZ well I wanna know when in 07 does it go back?

I don't think it is 07. There is no way NL could produce the film if they now have less than a year.

Some articles talked about the rights reverting in a year or so but the only date I remember seeing (in one article) was 2009.

[The Josh]

Well, everything I've read has said a year and all those came out in 2006 so a year from that would be 2007.

[King Darkness]

They can all blow it out their collective asses!!!! Its just rich people trying to get richer!

I said it once and I'll say it again, to hell with all these rich douche bags who ALL need to shut the hell up. They sound like school girls arguing about who kissed who's boyfriend.

I totally agree with this guy:cool:


I wish I had their addresses, I would send them all some diapers!

[Bannister]

I totally agree with this guy:cool:


I wish I had their addresses, I would send them all some diapers!
:lol :lol :lol
That guy is a genius King.

[Memnoch21]

About the rights, I think as long as SOMETHING is filmed they can keep the rights for so long. I think that is why they rushed the Corman version of Fantastic Four but never released it. Same with Queen of the Damned, the rights for The Vampire Lestat and Queen were about to go back to Anne Rice and WB put it on the fast track to beat the expiration.

[King Darkness]

:lol :lol :lol
That guy is a genius King.


Yes he is!

[Bannister]

Yes he is!
I know. :chew :chew :chew

[abstractharmony]

Same with Queen of the Damned, the rights for The Vampire Lestat and Queen were about to go back to Anne Rice and WB put it on the fast track to beat the expiration.


Man, do I wish THAT had never happened...

[Memnoch21]

Yea, you and me both. They claimed that Vampire Lestat was unfilmable (buncha BS cuz I could think of a very good outline) and just.. ugh. Whole can of worms for my hatred for WB for pushing that movie. But at the same time I KINDA fault Anne herself because she made a big deal about getting the rights back and then doing both films as a miniseries on Showtime like they did with Feast of All Saints. When WB heard this the movie got the fast track and we got that wonderful piece of CRAP with no plot thanks to all the various holes, no characterization and a bastardization of characters and major plot points. Sooo in a round about way we may just see a similar thing wit the Hobbit :monkey3

[FrodoEyes]

If New Line make a bad Hobbit movie with no PJ, Weta etc....

"I wish this film had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

"So do all who live to see such films but that is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the film that is given to us. There are other films in this world besides ones made with evil studios. Peter Jackson was MEANT to make this film, which means we also were MEANT to see it. And that is an encouraging thought."

[goliath]

:rotfl :rotfl :lol :lol

[carbo-fation]

:lol That's hilarious!! Well done FrodoEyes!:D

[FlyAndFight]

If New Line make a bad Hobbit movie with no PJ, Weta etc....

"I wish this film had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

"So do all who live to see such films but that is not for us to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the film that is given to us. There are other films in this world besides ones made with evil studios. Peter Jackson was MEANT to make this film, which means we also were MEANT to see it. And that is an encouraging thought."


That was classic! :lol :lol

[Bodie The Cursed]

Just make the movie.. Its based on an epic tale by Tolkien.. If they stick to that it will be just fine.. PJ is overrated..

[Wor-Gar]

I have to say I wouldn't mind seeing one of these films with faster pacing and less dramatic 'milking'.

[pjam]

Well, PJ may have lost some of his edge, I mean he blew Kong (certainly in the Studios eyes) and anyone who can blow Kong loses points with me, it was a huge disappointment for me.

[The Josh]

I don't think PJ is overrated. That's kind of funny to read actually. I'd list him as one of the better directors out there bar none.

I also thought Kong was pretty good. Not great but pretty good. It was a different twist which is fine with me since I didn't want a direct retelling of the 1933 version.

[pixletwin]

I just hope PJ doens't get locked into the mentality that all of his projects deserve to be 3+ hours.

[abake]

I also believe Jackson is overrated.
He's a great director, no denying that, one of the best indeed, but not that good.
He tends to be overly melodramatic.

[Protozaius]

PJ has been overrated in the past... only by over-zealous LOTR fans that think that their "leader" can do no wrong. That line of thinking lead many a Lucas boot licker to slaughter when The Phantom Menace came out. :maul

But in the end, you have two talented directors that have had their great films and not so great films. That is all. The success (or lack there of) of King Kong just grounded PJ... humanized him if you will. His love for the Kong project blinded him from seeing the movie more clearly.

It is said that a director should NEVER be given the opportunity to direct their pet project. I tend to agree. :D

[WrathofSauron]

I agree with Proto here but I do think that the feel and style of direction that PJ brought to LOTR will be hard to beat and at this point we almost expect the Hobbit to be filmed with that same style and feel, otherwise instead of it being an extension or continuation of LOTR it will come across as a completely separate entity. I hope I'm wrong and that it actually betters LOTR but I really don't see it happening that way! Anyway its PF not PJ time this weekend at Toyfair woo hoo!!!!:rotfl

[tomandshell]

PJ is a talented and visionary director--but with LOTR, so much of what made the films so powerful was right there on the page courtesy of Tolkien. If you combine his cinematic sensibilities with such fantastic source material, you get a classic like the Lord of the Rings trilogy. But combine that same sweeping cinematic scale and epic pacing with a lesser story and you run the risk of creating an overwrought and pretentious misfire. In my opinion, King Kong was not a failure--but it was not a classic on the same level of LOTR. PJ needs to reign himself in and get past the idea that every story he tells needs to be a three hour long "epic movie feast" extravaganza.

If every meal was an epic feast, you would end up a bloated corpse. Sometimes it's nice to just have a great meal that leaves you hungry for dessert. We were all dying to see the extended versions of the LOTR films. Not too many people cared about an extended King Kong--we felt it was long enough to begin with.

Let's see what he does with Lovely Bones...

[RoboDad]

I agree with Proto here but I do think that the feel and style of direction that PJ brought to LOTR will be hard to beat and at this point we almost expect the Hobbit to be filmed with that same style and feel, otherwise instead of it being an extension or continuation of LOTR it will come across as a completely separate entity. I hope I'm wrong and that it actually betters LOTR but I really don't see it happening that way! Anyway its PF not PJ time this weekend at Toyfair woo hoo!!!!:rotfl

Yes and no. One of the things that is commonly overlooked is just how much of a collaborative effort film making is. Certainly Jackson has a distinctive style to his direction, but other factors, such as cinematography, costuming, effects, and such could all be very similar, assuming that those same people (e.g., Weta) could be involved.

[Darklord Dave]

Remember that Tolkien has been translated into film in a spectacularly bad way and again a ho-hum kiddie TV way. It took PJ and Weta to really make it sing on screen.

[PosterBoyKelly]

PJ has been overrated in the past... only by over-zealous LOTR fans that think that their "leader" can do no wrong. That line of thinking lead many a Lucas boot licker to slaughter when The Phantom Menace came out. :maul

But in the end, you have two talented directors that have had their great films and not so great films. That is all. The success (or lack there of) of King Kong just grounded PJ... humanized him if you will. His love for the Kong project blinded him from seeing the movie more clearly.

It is said that a director should NEVER be given the opportunity to direct their pet project. I tend to agree. :D


I agree with most of that, except I think PJ went UNDERRATED for WAAAAYYYY too long. I was a huge Feebles and Bad Taste fan for years before the very different Heavenly Creatures and LOTR.

I think King Kong was ok, but got sour after all the action. I just don't get emotion from a giant computer effect, just me.

I also think directors should be able to do their pet projects, it MIGHT be ok, but who cares if it sucks, it's not like I spent my time and money on making it.

But overall, he needed to be grounded, hopefully he gets back in gear and gives us some more goods soon.

[Darth Waller]

If every meal was an epic feast, you would end up a bloated corpse.

Or you'd end up like this guy: http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7045/discojabbaqk2.gif

[Protozaius]

PJ is a talented and visionary director--but with LOTR, so much of what made the films so powerful was right there on the page courtesy of Tolkien. If you combine his cinematic sensibilities with such fantastic source material, you get a classic like the Lord of the Rings trilogy. But combine that same sweeping cinematic scale and epic pacing with a lesser story and you run the risk of creating an overwrought and pretentious misfire. In my opinion, King Kong was not a failure--but it was not a classic on the same level of LOTR. PJ needs to reign himself in and get past the idea that every story he tells needs to be a three hour long "epic movie feast" extravaganza.

If every meal was an epic feast, you would end up a bloated corpse. Sometimes it's nice to just have a great meal that leaves you hungry for dessert. We were all dying to see the extended versions of the LOTR films. Not too many people cared about an extended King Kong--we felt it was long enough to begin with.

Let's see what he does with Lovely Bones...

Elequently stated... gee... I wish I said that. :monkey3 :monkey3 :monkey3

[gideon]

For the last fifty years I have been an observer of film. I enjoy all type of films and have made an effort to learn about film history, film economics and the nature of the business. It only enlarges your appreciation of what happens on the screen if you also have some appreciation of what goes on before it gets there.

I wonder if people really know what a long shot it is to have a hit film. A hit film meaning a film that makes a great profit for its studio..... or perhaps we should define it as a hit film that is nearly universally praised by professional critics .... or perhaps we should define a hit as a film that gets the adulation of its peers through the annual awards given out for such things. Usually one cancels out the other. While most films do indeed lose money lots of films have made money for their owners. Some films get great reviews. A few lucky films are blessed with major awards like Best FIlm of the Year from the Motion Picture Academy. How many of the same films get all three in a trifecta?

Consider what Peter Jackson accomplished with the three LOTR films. All three cracked the Top Ten grossing films as measured by international dollars according to the stats on boxofficemojo.com. One of them, ROTK is only the second film to pass the billion dollar level and is still #2 on the list. TTT is in the Top Five and FOTR only recently was pushed out of the top TEN. That is success like no other three films by any director in the history of film.

The three films recieved nearly totally positive reviews by the people who are paid to do that for a living. We are just not talking about rabid fanboys who think that watching a bloody slasher film is even better than sex - these are the opinions of professionals. Funny that their "elite" opinion was shared by the ticket buying public.

And then the films get dozens of Academy Award nominations, and win some 17 including Best Film. ROTK swept all eleven categories it was nominated for. No other film has done that in history. Other awards like the BAFTA's and Golden Globes and others are also on the shelf of Jackson and company.

Such a trifecta - the same three films having such great success by three different measurements - by one director has never been accomplished in the 100 year history of film.

So before we write off Mr. Jackson in favor of the current flavor of the month or dismiss his contribution to the success of the LOTR films, perhaps a little sobering reflection on the actual record is in order.

[goliath]

Very well said, Gideon! :clap

And :welcome to the board!

[pixletwin]

For only a second post Gideon, you speak 17,000 posts worth of wisdom. :clap

[The Josh]

That is perfectly said.

[gideon]

Todays NY Times has an interview with New LIne honcho Robert Shaye. He talks about lots of different things but here is the important stuff about THE HOBBIT and Peter Jackson.

One thing that has not been blunted by illness is Mr. Shaye’s temper, which flared last year when he was asked about a lawsuit filed by Mr. Jackson over profits from “The Lord of the Rings.”

Mr. Shaye, criticizing what he called Mr. Jackson’s “arrogance” and calling the director “myopic,” told Sci-Fi Wire: “I don’t care about Peter Jackson anymore.” He added, “He wants to have another $100 million or $50 million, whatever he’s suing us for. He doesn’t want to sit down and talk about it. He thinks that we owe him something after we’ve paid him over a quarter of a billion dollars.”

Asked about the remarks last week, Mr. Shaye said that he made the statement “in a moment of emotion” but did not regret it. “I regret losing a friend,” he said, as he showed a visitor a Gandalf sword that Mr. Jackson had sent him as a gift, before the lawsuit.

A representative for Mr. Jackson declined to comment.

But the ill will has held up plans to make “The Hobbit.” Without specifically saying he would not make the film with Mr. Jackson, Mr. Shaye made it plain that he had no interest in working with difficult filmmakers. “Some directors are impossible,” he said. “Are there a few people I wouldn’t work with? Yes, but I won’t name names.”

And he would not comment on reports in the news media that the “Spider-Man” director Sam Raimi had been asked to direct “The Hobbit.” He said, however, that although there was no workable script yet for the film, he intended to release it in 2009.

The interview also points out that Shaye was near death recently, spent a month in the hospital and is now a changed man. I guess near-death makes you angry and vengeful. Funny, I always thought it had the opposite effect.

[darthviper107]

Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll have a relapse. I'm not completely opposed to Raimi, but I'd still like to have Peter.

And he seems kind of oblivious to that everyone else isn't finished with PJ yet and are still trying to fix the situation.

[The Josh]

I find it intereting to read that he plans to release it in 2009 when supposedly the rights revert back to SZ this year.

[woodsy]

I find it intereting to read that he plans to release it in 2009 when supposedly the rights revert back to SZ this year.

The are so many stories and rumours out there about the movie, the director, the rights etc...who knows what the real truth is?? Seems like the boatload of lawyer's involved on all sides of this issue are the only one's who really know what's going on, and they aren't talking. :mad:

[The Josh]

The are so many stories and rumours out there about the movie, the director, the rights etc...who knows what the real truth is?? Seems like the boatload of lawyer's involved on all sides of this issue are the only one's who really know what's going on, and they aren't talking. :mad:

It does appear that way. I'm to the point of I don't want it made.

[darthviper107]

Oh come on, we can't go through life with the only adaptation of The Hobbit being the horrible 1977 cartoon version.

[The Josh]

Oh come on, we can't go through life with the only adaptation of The Hobbit being the horrible 1977 cartoon version.

Yes, we can. I'd rather nobody to it at this point because I think the movie is going the way of something that will be utter crap.

[woodsy]

I think the movie is going the way of something that will be utter crap.

It certainly has the potential to meet your expectations. Even if it turns out to be a great movie, which certainly seems unlikely at this point, I still won't pay to see it if PJ is not involved. I refuse to support New Line Cinema, and put money in their pockets.

[Oxfordian]

I would rather the film is made; that it is made in the style of the LOTR; that it is directed well with a good adaptation from the novel, beefing up to a more adult audience; that members of the cast of LOTR reprise their respective roles; that Weta are involved; that it is filmed in NZ and that the Hobbit sequel - the so called 'link' film to LOTR - is completed also. That is my hope and I have not read anything that could jeapordise that at present. Whether PJ directs is a difficult one - one that cannot be answered by us barrack room debaters but could be influenced nevertheless.

To give up hope due to the rumour mill is certainly not the way to go. I for one, am determined to continue thinking positive, otherwise I simply wouldn't be able to sleep at night :bounce

[The Josh]

Not giving up but hope is fading of something good coming.

[woodsy]

I for one, am determined to continue thinking positive, otherwise I simply wouldn't be able to sleep at night :bounce

Yeah, I was positive too...until the lawyer's got involved. Luckily for me I can sleep well one way or the other.

[jaffakitkat]

I remember reading a comment from Saul Zaentz about how his company would end up making The Hobbit with MGM and PJ when the rights reverted back, and how PJ would get a better deal from him, etc. Can't remember where I saw it, but does anyone else remember if he said anything about when the rights go back to him?

[goliath]

I remember reading a comment from Saul Zaentz about how his company would end up making The Hobbit with MGM and PJ when the rights reverted back, and how PJ would get a better deal from him, etc. Can't remember where I saw it, but does anyone else remember if he said anything about when the rights go back to him?

This seems to have been a misinterpretation of Mr. Zaentz comments and he himself said he was "misquoted".

The actual date the rights would fall back to the Zaentz Company seems to be a secret in the contract between New Line and Zaentz - and it might be that contracting a director will be enough for New Line to extend the rights until the film actually gets made.


This is gathered from various sources from the net, and isn't necessarily all true, but it would make sense to me.

If the specific date the rights will fall back from New Line to Zaentz would not be a secrecy clause in their contract, then this date would certainly be known the interested public by now.

(Meanwhile, The Hobbit is listed on IMDB as "announced" for 2009: Link (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/))

[jaffakitkat]

The actual date the rights would fall back to the Zaentz Company seems to be a secret in the contract between New Line and Zaentz - and it might be that contracting a director will be enough for New Line to extend the rights until the film actually gets made.


Interesting, I was wondering about that. Is that how it works with entertainment law? Like, do the rights just get extended so long as the film can be shown to be a 'work in progress', or do they still revert at a set date? Or is it a case by case basis?

[Mudshark]

I don't know if anyone else read the letter from PJ & FW to theonering.net back in November last year, but I gathered they were suing for the right to examine the books from Fellowship only, and that New Line offered a waiver of that audit as part of the deal to have Wingnut make The Hobbit. PJ's response was that he would only come on board if the matter was resolved amicably, and couldn't accept it as part of a 'business as usual' sort of deal because it would still leave a bad taste in his mouth, and he wouldn't even consider trying to make another labor of love under those circumstances. I heard that Ian McKellan refused to play Gandalf without PJ directing. (Forgive me, but I feel a brief rant coming on...)

Who's made the most money off the three movies and all the licenses for the past several years? Not Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh! Gimme a break, New Line! You stand to reap untold fortunes if you bring PJ and his entire tour de force on board! Why not give the poor guy what he wants and do whatever it takes to make him happy again? What the hell are you thinking?! (Okay, I'm better now...)

If anyone's interested in that letter, let me know and I'll try to post a link to it.

[Fritz]

...Why not give the poor guy what he wants and do whatever it takes to make him happy again? What the hell are you thinking?! (Okay, I'm better now...)...

:rotfl PJ made a lot of money from New Line so he's by no means poor. I think they both have to be smarter about it and come to some sort of understanding.

[FrodoEyes]

Reading a more recent interview with Ian McKellen, I think he hinted that he would play Gandalf whoever was director. It's just something he really wants to do so i can't see how a change of director would affect that.
As long as it's shot in New Zealand, designed by Weta and has the original cast, I can't see myself complaining too much.

[Fritz]

Reading a more recent interview with Ian McKellen, I think he hinted that he would play Gandalf whoever was director. It's just something he really wants to do so i can't see how a change of director would affect that.
As long as it's shot in New Zealand, designed by Weta and has the original cast, I can't see myself complaining too much.

That's more important to me as well. I would love PJ to do it but if it's not meant to be, I'm more concerned with continuity.

[FlyAndFight]

I don't know the details about the issue(s) between PJ and New Line, but if it's a breach of contract by New Line, then regardless of how many millions PJ has made, he is due his contractually agreed amounts.

All I've heard coming from New Line is, "PJ has made millions and should be happy with that." I wonder what Shaye and Co. would say if it was the other way around...

In any case, in regards to "The Hobbit" film, I'm in the same camp as those that said that as long as Weta and the required original cast members are involved, that will go a long way in making it work. But most importantly, I hope the screenwriters and director are as passionate about Tolkien's work as the fans are...

[D. Martin]

The vast majority of movie goers haven't read the books, so it's a moot point. No matter what happens, the movie will make a crap load.

[seregon13]

This seems to have been a misinterpretation of Mr. Zaentz comments and he himself said he was "misquoted".

The actual date the rights would fall back to the Zaentz Company seems to be a secret in the contract between New Line and Zaentz - and it might be that contracting a director will be enough for New Line to extend the rights until the film actually gets made.


This is gathered from various sources from the net, and isn't necessarily all true, but it would make sense to me.

If the specific date the rights will fall back from New Line to Zaentz would not be a secrecy clause in their contract, then this date would certainly be known the interested public by now.

(Meanwhile, The Hobbit is listed on IMDB as "announced" for 2009: Link (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/))

That's right Goliath 2009 ;)
Nothing has begun yet and time is running ,what kind of Hobbit we will see.

Last week Shaye talked about PJ & the hobbit.....

One thing that has not been blunted by illness is Mr. Shaye’s temper, which flared last year when he was asked about a lawsuit filed by Mr. Jackson over profits from “The Lord of the Rings.”

Mr. Shaye, criticizing what he called Mr. Jackson’s “arrogance” and calling the director “myopic,” told Sci-Fi Wire: “I don’t care about Peter Jackson anymore.” He added, “He wants to have another $100 million or $50 million, whatever he’s suing us for. He doesn’t want to sit down and talk about it. He thinks that we owe him something after we’ve paid him over a quarter of a billion dollars.”

Asked about the remarks last week, Mr. Shaye said that he made the statement “in a moment of emotion” but did not regret it. “I regret losing a friend,” he said, as he showed a visitor a Gandalf sword that Mr. Jackson had sent him as a gift, before the lawsuit.

A representative for Mr. Jackson declined to comment.

But the ill will has held up plans to make “The Hobbit.” Without specifically saying he would not make the film with Mr. Jackson, Mr. Shaye made it plain that he had no interest in working with difficult filmmakers. “Some directors are impossible,” he said. “Are there a few people I wouldn’t work with? Yes, but I won’t name names.”

And he would not comment on reports in the news media that the “Spider-Man” director Sam Raimi had been asked to direct “The Hobbit.” He said, however, that although there was no workable script yet for the film, he intended to release it in 2009.

Full review:
LINK:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/media/19new.html?pagewanted=2&_r=4&ref=business

[pixletwin]

The vast majority of movie goers haven't read the books, so it's a moot point. No matter what happens, the movie will make a crap load.

Maybe. Maybe not. Buzz can make or break it too. If there is alot of negative buzz about it before it comes out I can easliy see it flopping face first.

[The Josh]

Maybe. Maybe not. Buzz can make or break it too. If there is alot of negative buzz about it before it comes out I can easliy see it flopping face first.

I agree. I wouldn't say this is a gurantee that it will make a lot of money. I've seen it talked about on everything from Access Hollywood to CNN about PJ not doing The Hobbit. The buzz right now for this film is not the best needless to say.

[Fritz]

I don't know the details about the issue(s) between PJ and New Line, but if it's a breach of contract by New Line, then regardless of how many millions PJ has made, he is due his contractually agreed amounts...

I won't disagree but is there any place for loyalty for the company that took the risk and put the director on the map and made him those millions of dollars.

King Darkness said it the best. It's two millionaires fighting over more millions of dollars.

[FlyAndFight]

I won't disagree but is there any place for loyalty for the company that took the risk and put the director on the map and made him those millions of dollars.

King Darkness said it the best. It's two millionaires fighting over more millions of dollars.

The "millions" are irrelevent. I can certainly understand the loyalty issue but that is also a two-way street. It was PJ's project that made that same company countless of millions as well. Why doesn't New Line simply pay up what they promised in the first place and move on? I don't know about you, but if I am hired for a job and promised X amount and do not receive X amount and have the other side tell me "you've made enough already, so quiet down...", then I would be bit "chuffed", as our friends across the pond say.

If I am understanding the issue the correct way, regardless of the dollars amounts, it was a breach of contract, pure and simple. He was promised X amount and New Line tried to rip him off. That is the bottom line.

[pixletwin]

All excellent points F&F. I agree. Besides, I really think what PJ is trying to to do is shed some light on shady business practices within Hollywood. I am totally on PJ's side on this.

[Darklord Dave]

New Line believes they have paid everything contractually owed to PJ and co.

It's the creative Hollywood accounting that makes PJ and co. believe they are owed more. Frequently the debts of failed pictures are written off against more successful ones under categories such as "overhead" and such. It's an arcane subject that has been debated for many, many years. Peter and co. want NL to be more transparent in their accounting. These suits happen all the time and it is a bit surprising that Shaye is taking this stance.

Chris Carter and David Duchovny sued Fox over X-Files profits and at the same time had deals at the studio and were working for them.

[woodsy]

New Line believes they have paid everything contractually owed to PJ and co.



If so, New Line would have nothing to lose in agreeing to an independant audit. Their actions however, seem to indicate they want absolutely nothing to do with an audit of the "Fellowship".

[Darklord Dave]

As I pointed out previously in this or another thread - any studio will fight tooth and nail to prevent an audit (even though it's almost always in the contract that the filmmaker is entitled to one). If an audit shows that PJ is owed money for LotR, then it opens up NL to audits for every movie they've ever made. That is something that they desperately need to prevent.

A great book on the subject is Fatal Subtraction: The Inside Story of Buchwald v. Paramount by Pierce O'Donnell. Paramount fought hard, but ultimately settled so they wouldn't have to open the books.

[Fritz]

...I don't know about you, but if I am hired for a job and promised X amount and do not receive X amount and have the other side tell me "you've made enough already, so quiet down...

I've had jobs in the past where I've made a hell of a lot more money than was expected. I'm sure the company probably owed me more based on what we agreed upon but I never pushed the issue because I know they could have taken another guy and I never would have gotten the opportunity in the first place. In turn, I've received follow up jobs from the company rather then them going out looking for other contractors.

[Mudshark]

:rotfl PJ made a lot of money from New Line so he's by no means poor. I think they both have to be smarter about it and come to some sort of understanding.


Hi Fritz,

Of course I meant 'poor guy' as in 'artist who just wants to do his thing and not have to muck around in all the legal stuff', but of course HE was the one who filed the suit, and he's by NO means poor in terms of money! I was referring to what I read in the letter that was posted on theonering.net last year. I agree, by the way. They really ought to sort things out and focus all that energy on something more positive, like making a convincing adaptation of the Hobbit to the big screen. That in itself will be no easy task, no matter who undertakes it, especially now that it will have to come after, rather than before LOTR.

[woodsy]

As I pointed out previously in this or another thread - any studio will fight tooth and nail to prevent an audit (even though it's almost always in the contract that the filmmaker is entitled to one). If an audit shows that PJ is owed money for LotR, then it opens up NL to audits for every movie they've ever made. That is something that they desperately need to prevent.



Yes, they want to avoid an audit at all costs. Would they feel that way if they ran their studio with honesty and integrity?

[Mudshark]

Yeah. I had a good chuckle over that one too! Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[FlyAndFight]

I've had jobs in the past where I've made a hell of a lot more money than was expected. I'm sure the company probably owed me more based on what we agreed upon but I never pushed the issue because I know they could have taken another guy and I never would have gotten the opportunity in the first place. In turn, I've received follow up jobs from the company rather then them going out looking for other contractors.

The contracting business is a dog-eat-dog world, no doubt. You apparently are just another fish in the pond. But in this case, PJ doesn't need follow up jobs from New Line now. In my opinion, it's the principal of the thing, as well as the contractual obligation. New Line could have negotiated a settlement since they were in the wrong to begin with and this would have never escalated to it's present point.

We don't know what happened behind closed doors, so our comments are based on speculative information, and yet, based on Mr. Shayes comments alone, it appears that his argument is not that New Line is in the right, but that PJ should conform himself with what he has received and shut the heck up. Plus, he appears vendictive towards PJ with the whole utilizing another director on The Hobbit bit.

[Fritz]

The contracting business is a dog-eat-dog world, no doubt. You apparently are just another fish in the pond. But in this case, PJ doesn't need follow up jobs from New Line now. In my opinion, it's the principal of the thing, as well as the contractual obligation. New Line could have negotiated a settlement since they were in the wrong to begin with and this would have never escalated to it's present point.

We don't know what happened behind closed doors, so our comments are based on speculative information, and yet, based on Mr. Shayes comments alone, it appears that his argument is not that New Line is in the right, but that PJ should conform himself with what he has received and shut the heck up. Plus, he appears vendictive towards PJ with the whole utilizing another director on The Hobbit bit.

I don't disagree but the reason PJ doesn't need any more follow up jobs is because of New Line/Lord of the Rings. I remember reading that if it tanked, it may have bankrupted New Line. PJ really didn't risk anything. He was a B-list director before LotR and if it failed he'd still be a B-list director. He definitely wouldn't have gotten the King Kong job.

I'm not trying to sound pro New Line and/or anti-PJ. I would just like them all to realise how good it would be for everyone to get together and do a proper Hobbit and just work something out. There's more than just money and who owes who what at stake. I'm just opposed to cannonising PJ like some people are. I don't think it's a stretch to say PJ has become what he is today because of New Line. I'd just like to see that acknowledged somehow not just that New Line is evil because they owe PJ money (which I don't doubt) and are trying to rip him off.

[FlyAndFight]

I don't disagree but the reason PJ doesn't need any more follow up jobs is because of New Line/Lord of the Rings. I remember reading that if it tanked, it may have bankrupted New Line. PJ really didn't risk anything. He was a B-list director before LotR and if it failed he'd still be a B-list director. He definitely wouldn't have gotten the King Kong job.

I'm not trying to sound pro New Line and/or anti-PJ. I would just like them all to realise how good it would be for everyone to get together and do a proper Hobbit and just work something out. There's more than just money and who owes who what at stake. I'm just opposed to cannonising PJ like some people are. I don't think it's a stretch to say PJ has become what he is today because of New Line. I'd just like to see that acknowledged somehow not just that New Line is evil because they owe PJ money (which I don't doubt) and are trying to rip him off.


I'm in total agreement with you, Fritz. LOTR was definitely PJ's ticket to the big-top, if you will. New Line did in fact have most to lose if the project had failed. I certainly do not fall in the cannonising PJ crowd, though. I just felt that based on what we do know and what Shayes has been quoted as saying, PJ is basically asking for what he was promised and New Line is appearing a little "underhanded", if you will.

[Fritz]

...New Line is appearing a little "underhanded", if you will.

Of course they're sleazy and underhanded, they're a movie studio. That's just a step above Music Studios on the sleazy meter. :D

[DouglasMcc]

I don't disagree but the reason PJ doesn't need any more follow up jobs is because of New Line/Lord of the Rings. I remember reading that if it tanked, it may have bankrupted New Line. PJ really didn't risk anything. He was a B-list director before LotR and if it failed he'd still be a B-list director. He definitely wouldn't have gotten the King Kong job.

I'm not trying to sound pro New Line and/or anti-PJ. I would just like them all to realise how good it would be for everyone to get together and do a proper Hobbit and just work something out. There's more than just money and who owes who what at stake. I'm just opposed to cannonising PJ like some people are. I don't think it's a stretch to say PJ has become what he is today because of New Line. I'd just like to see that acknowledged somehow not just that New Line is evil because they owe PJ money (which I don't doubt) and are trying to rip him off.

I find it strange that Peter Jackson's wealth is leading so many to say, "well, he's rich, he should just shut up and make us a Hobbit film." Most of us here really don't give a damn about Peter Jackson. We just want more LoTR films directed by him. And I think that's a bad attitude to have. Would we be so ho-hum about this money if PJ was bankrupt and needed that money to survive? Sure, that's being facetious, but it proves my point. PJ's wealth should not be a factor. Either you support the cause or you don't.

I cannot speak for PJ, so the following is just speculation. However, I have followed him since Frighteners ... one of my all time favorite films ... and I do not think he is pushing this matter with New Line over money. I truly feel he is doing it over the principle of the matter. The only part of this matter that everyone seems to be in agreement over is that New Line probably owes PJ more money. I think PJ is trying to send a message to all the movies studios. By demanding an audit, he is drawing attention to this side of the business. I highly doubt he will get the audit ... but New Line is going to have to pony up more cash. This attention and the resulting money loss to New Line will make other studios a little more honest for the next few years. Sure, they will still be screwing people over left and right. However, it will be to a much smaller degree. And, if that helps another director out ... one who doesn't have LoTR millions to live off of, well, I think that will make PJ happy. Maybe it's naive to think PJ is being altruistic. However, in the hundreds of hours of interviews and DVD extras I have seen, he has never come off as a greedy SOB that's in it for the money.

[Fritz]

If it's not about principle and not about the money why not offer to give the proceeds to all the starving actors and directors out there? I personally don't believe he's as noble as you believe. IMHO.

[gideon]

Obviously both men feel THAT IT IS very much about both principle and money. Nobody gets lots of money not caring about money. The two go hand in hand. Jackson wants all he feels that he contractually is entitled to while Shaye does not want to give up any that does not have to give up. Both feel they are correct in their positions. It is very much about both principle and money.

And despite many posts saying otherwise, I still cannot fathom any reason why New Line and Shaye can be able to refuse a audit of the books if such audit is mandated by Jacksons contract. In any normal profit sharing agreement, such a clause is usually normal. Jackson has lawyers who went over his LOTR contract and I am 99% positive that protective language is in his contract.

I ask yet again: If Jackson cannot get an audit of the New Line accounts, how in the world can he ever determine if he has been paid properly in the profit sharing agreement? That is what this comes down to.

Lets face it - both men have history and track records outside of LOTR and that has nothing to do with anything. Yes, Bob Shaye came up with the idea of three LOTR films and did finance them and gave Jackson the freedom to make them. He deserves lots of credit. But he also gave the green light to far more money losers that lost money for the company. Does he also take blame for that? Yes, Jackson made record setting films with LOTR but he has also made some bad to mediocre films that did not do so well at the box office. None of that means anything here.

This is about the legal contract that both men signed for the LOTR films. How can anyone raise an ethical objection to having that contract enforced? An audit is part of that enforcement mechanism. Who has how much money.... who is rich and powerful ... who is responsible for LOTR success ... who has a right to be angry .... who got their panties in a twist over hurt feelings .... those are all side issues which deviate from the proper central issue of each parties contractual rights and responsibilities.

[waterfold]

I'm sure some of you have seen this but I'm starting to get hope again!!!
:D

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4160162a1860.html

[The Josh]

That's VERY good news. God get this made already!! I'm dying to see it. :D

[Sir Tristram]

Wow! Thanks for posting that! That is potentially GREAT news!!!!! :chew

[devilof76]

So glad it won't be Raimi. :bunnydanc

[mlarsen]

I agree, let's see it made!

[The Josh]

So glad it won't be Raimi. :bunnydanc

That's no joke. The guys a good director but I don't think anyone outside of Spielberg could even come close to PJ.

[Sir Tristram]

Some people think it doesn't make all that much of a difference, but it really and truly does.... (Just look at the Harry Potter films....None are bad, but most of them are different and you can tell that there were three directors....or is is four now?)

Not that the end result would be bad from some other director, but PJ's look and feel are so specific and he made such a mark with the public and with the actors...I am sure if he could decide, McKellen would only want to work with PJ on this!

[FlyAndFight]

Excellent news.

[Lembas Eater]

Yes indeed. I really hope this all comes together as we hope. I know Bob Shaye has seemed to be the bad guy from his own statements etc. I hope he can be a big enough man to basically admit he was wrong, and I believe he can be that guy.

Now on to what we want to see: THE HOBBIT from New Line, Directed by Peter Jackson!


Also might be a good time to change the name of this thread, if possible or close it to begin another, because this is indeed Good news now.

[Darklord Dave]

Uh, did you guys read a different article? That didn't really say anything new, seems Shaye was just being politic.

[devilof76]

It offered a microscopic shred of hope. It's not a lot more than nothing, but it is more than nothing, which is all there was before.

[gideon]

Hope springs eternal. 2010 would be a very nice year for THE HOBBIT. And the toys and poly ..... can't wait.

[The Josh]

Uh, did you guys read a different article? That didn't really say anything new, seems Shaye was just being politic.

Sounds like 2 me he's starting to figure out PJ and crew have to do The Hobbit. His stance has changed it looks like even he's just playing a bit of games. Which is more than what we've seen in months.

[WetaWork]

Bottom line, as with any other business, I'm hoping it will all come down to dollars & "sense". New Line is fully aware that the marketing and box office draw would be more successful with "LOTR Academy Award winning" PJ at the helm.

Fans want it and deserve it. They need to make it happen.

[The Josh]

Right! If they just think about the money it might actually help something really good get made for once. That's a crazy thought I know. :rotfl

[Ultimate Weapon]

I hope that article is right on and 'The Hobbit' will be made by New Line with Jackson at the helm.

I know that eventually the rights for Hobbit will revert back to MGM and theire head siad that PJ would definitely be in charge, but I would hate for two different studios to have made these films. That means there would be no complete box set of all the films, different packaging, etc. It's in everyoe's best interest to get this film on track with the original parties involved.

Even if another director immitated PJ's style and used all the same designs, actors, etc. the film would definitely have a different feel. I love Raimi, but not for the Hobbit. Jackson established Middle Earth for the screen and he needs to continue it. Maybe a few years after that they could even kick out the Silmarillion or Children of Hurin.

Almost every boxed set of LOTR comes with a copy of The Hobbit. We need our DVD's to be the same way.

[RoboDad]

Right! If they just think about the money it might actually help something really good get made for once. That's a crazy thought I know. :rotfl

It kind of makes you wonder what goes through these peoples' minds sometimes. They have whole legions of fans literally waving fistfuls of money at them, and they are basically ignoring them.

[The Josh]

It kind of makes you wonder what goes through these peoples' minds sometimes. They have whole legions of fans literally waving fistfuls of money at them, and they are basically ignoring them.

Yup, does make you wonder what the hell bounces around the inside of their heads.

Though Hasbro did that to lots of people at SDCC. Since they made you go get a ticket (which you had to wait in line for like 45 mins) then come back down to wait another hour. Just to give them money.

[Sir Tristram]

Uh, did you guys read a different article? That didn't really say anything new, seems Shaye was just being politic.

There was a new vibe.
The last statement was a bit colder and some of the informal statements from New Line's upper echelon indicated that PJ would definitely NOT be directing because they would not work with someone who is suing them. They even mentioned when Bob Shaye had referred to Peter as 'arrogant'

Now....He must be coming to the conclusion that they mith lose if they spend $200 million on a a final epic piece of the saga and have less people flock to see it...And one person who holds great power and sway over this project....is Ian McKellen....He probably does not realize it...but if McKellen said he would not work on this w/o PJ and Fran, then New Line would have to consider the impact of having a film w/o everyone's favorite Gandalf in it. Sure the could do it....but would they want to....simply out of spite? No way...Just like Micahel Corleone said....this is business.....not personal.
Having PJ, fran and Sir Ian back is just good business sense.

[Lembas Eater]

And Shaye had been personally vocal and vehement that Peter would not be involved with New Line.
The mere reporting of this may get things rolling as quickly as the earlier reports villified Shaye in the eyes of fans.

Hope is kindled.

[The Ringer]

:chew:chew:chew:chew:chew:chew

[devilof76]

There's so much to be said about stylistic consistency, and after seeing PJ & Serkis's Kong, I have a hard time imagining anyone else's Smaug.

I'll jump on the smallest indication that this will happen.

[The Josh]

There's so much to be said about stylistic consistency, and after seeing PJ & Serkis's Kong, I have a hard time imagining anyone else's Smaug.

I'll jump on the smallest indication that this will happen.

Thats a good deal of it. It will make it hard to enjoy as much knowing it's not PJ and Weta involved.

[devilof76]

It's not just the knowing. The way that Serkis plays CG characters, I think it'll be glaringly obvious that it wasn't the same people.

[The Josh]

It's not just the knowing. The way that Serkis plays CG characters, I think it'll be glaringly obvious that it wasn't the same people.

Of course. You'll be able to tell all over the place which will make for a less enjoyable movie experience.

[Sir Tristram]

Of course. You'll be able to tell all over the place which will make for a less enjoyable movie experience.

I think New Line is extremely aware of this....and that may be why they are willing to mend fences in the hopes of making a very serious amount of money. This film, if made properly and with enough hype....could make one billion dollars worldwide and that may not even have to include the merchandising!


:chew

[The Josh]

That's what I'm saying. This is one time I'd like them to think about the money so we get the best movie possible.

[Bonehead15]

I think New Line is extremely aware of this....and they may be why they are willing to mend fences in the hopes of making a very serious amount of money. This film, if made properly and with enough hype....could make one billion dollars worldwide and that may not even have to include the merchandising!


:chew

Agreed.

Remember money talks!! :D

[devilof76]

Remember money talks!! :D

And if they wanted to be true to their principles, they'd hire Jackson to make The Hobbit instead of trying to rip him off.

[spaceman]

I agree that there is definitely a new vibe here. I think PJ & Fran were probably pulling a bit of a stunt with their public letter, but it got the job accomplished - which was to show whose side the fans were on.

I think it would be hard to overestimate how difficult a task it was to get the feel of these films right. Anyone who spends time in this community knows how notoriously difficult to please passionate genre fans such as ourselves are. The simple fact that the vast majority are in love with these films says PJ got it mostly right. Everyone has quibbles, but he got it mostly right, and that is no mean feat.

I was watching TV with my wife the other night, and we saw a couple commercials in a row which made her comment that it seems fantasy films are coming out all over. But ... even in the short clips, even with (or because of?) a cast with known stars, they just seem cheesy. I don't understand the reasons for it, but so many of the teams that make these types of films seem to really go for the melodrama, or kind of "wink" or overplay it, giving away that they don't really take it all seriously. PJ played it straight, like a drama set in our world, but in a history where there was magic everywhere. It is almost like Tolkien's very description of Elvish magic (IIRC) - that they don't have a word for it, as if it were a thing that could be seperated and removed - it is just another part of reality for them, as ever present as the other natural laws.

All that to say - the epic vision, the overarching tone, the logistical talent to coordinate and empower so much additional creative talent, and the sheer nuts to think it was all possible - all of this is pure PJ. And without him, we don't have the three films we love. Without him, we don't have The Hobbit that could have been. There would always be a "what if ..."

I think PJ and Fran made their point, and I am glad to see the "turning of the tide" - The first dawning signs that the studio which had enough foresight to make the first three films also knows what is the next essential move.

Bring on the new Weta Collectibles! :D

[Entropy Chicken]

I was watching TV with my wife the other night, and we saw a couple commercials in a row which made her comment that it seems fantasy films are coming out all over. But ... even in the short clips, even with (or because of?) a cast with known stars, they just seem cheesy. I don't understand the reasons for it, but so many of the teams that make these types of films seem to really go for the melodrama, or kind of "wink" or overplay it, giving away that they don't really take it all seriously.

Interesting points but I hope you weren't referring to Stardust. Stardust :rocks and is based on the wonderful novel by master storyteller Neil Gaiman, for my money the best contemporary fantasy writer around. Obviously they are going for a bit more Princess Bride type tone than Tolkien but JRR's influence is keenly felt. Then trailers have not been that great but it's a kinda odd story to get across to mainstream audiences in 30 seconds. Give the movie a try, or even better the book, and I'll sure you'll be happy you did. Stardust... now playing at a theater near you. :D

[Sir Tristram]

Interesting points but I hope you weren't referring to Stardust. Stardust :rocks and is based on the wonderful novel by master storyteller Neil Gaiman, for my money the best contemporary fantasy writer around. Obviously they are going for a bit more Princess Bride type tone than Tolkien but JRR's influence is keenly felt. Then trailers have not been that great but it's a kinda odd story to get across to mainstream audiences in 30 seconds. Give the movie a try, or even better the book, and I'll sure you'll be happy you did. Stardust... now playing at a theater near you. :D

I am biased, but go see Stardust! My friend and teacher, Fight Master Richard Ryan, not only did the fight arrangements/choreography, but he also was DeNiro's stunt double and did some of the fighting for him!
Richard is arriving this evening in NY and I am assisting him with an intensive stage combat class at a local College here in New York! We are taking the students to see Stardust and his other film that is opening next week, the Last Legion, with Ben Kingsley and Colin Firth!
Stardust is a lot of fun! Go see it!

[spaceman]

:lol Yes, I was referring (as one example) to StarDust. I was at lunch today with some friends whose opinion I really respect, and unprompted they said "Hey, we saw a fun movie the other day", referring of course to the same. So, I think I'll have to withdraw any prejudgements on this particular film until I know better what I'm talking about! :o But, I think you guys may still agree with the basic premise of my comments, which is that PJ (mostly) successfully navigated around the cliche's and melodrama which could have damaged these films, to deliver a product grounded in gritty realism. Here's hoping again, that it really does represent some reconcilliation (or at least willingness to work together) on the parts of those whose participation in a successful Hobbit is essential. :peace

[Lembas Eater]

The newest of the news is that Sam Raimi may indeed be directing THE HOBBIT, with PJ producing it. SO... the question is "Is that enough?" Is it enough that Peter and Weta have their hands in it? If the look and style of Peter's films is all over this, Will it be enough to ensure that we're seeing the same level of craftmanship and magic that the three films have?

Raimi IS indeed a talented director and of course, has a very similar history as Peter, starting off as an independent, no-budget director of horror films that mixed up as much humor as fake blood. And of course, despite the problems with Spiderman 3, he's learned how to wrestle with big budget fantasy films that are loaded with special effects.

So. Again, the question remains, "Is it enough? Will this make everyone happy?"


BTW: I am a huge Gaiman fan and can't wait for STARDUST!!!! (A busy weekend and a boatload of Work have kept me from my usual Friday Movie Premiere experience on this one)

[tomandshell]

If Peter Jackson's name is on it, even as a producer, then it will go a long way with fans, and presumably with the talent both on and off screen. We don't just need PJ, we need the actors and crew who are loyal to him.

[The Josh]

Depends on how much PJ gets to put his hands on it.

[Lembas Eater]

Man, you guys are fast!

[The Josh]

Man, you guys are fast!

Thank You :)

[galactiboy]

I think having PJ as a producer would be a good move as long as he's really involved and not just there for show. But I couldn't imagine him placing his name on a film as a Producer if he weren't intimately involved in it.

I think it could be a good fit, and I'd be much more confident about seeing it knowing that there is good carry-over from the LOTR.

[jaffakitkat]

I'm still really hoping Sam Raimi doesn't do it. I like him a lot as a director, but if he directed The Hobbit instead of PJ, I just have the feeling I'd start resenting him for it (yep, I know it's irrational), and I'd much rather keep liking him. PJ producing would be something at least, but I don't think it would be enough for me personally.

I'm also looking forward to Stardust, though. :)

[Sir Tristram]

I don't understand why New Line would be on baord for him to produce and perhaps get paid even more money than if he just served directorial duties...That doesn't make any sense.
Producers usually get a huge end of the profits...Is this just to have good PR and WETA giving it their all?
This is strange.

[FrodoEyes]

The website that reported the Raimi as director, PJ as producer didn't have a source, it's just one reporter speculating. I don't think much to that report at all.

Basically I think what is happening is: New Line have had a series of dreadful films recently, and not releasing as many as they would like, Hairspray being the only recent success. There are alot of changes going on at the company and they're increasingly getting into the situation they were in before they took on lotr. New Line has a history of taking a risk and they knew how well it worked out with lotr, so I'll bet that they're thinking they'll have a guaranteed hit if the Hobbit is done with PJ.....and I think the fans can have a big say in whether he's producer or director......PJ's letter to theonering.net was to show whose side the fans are on. New Line need money, they need a hit. The Hobbit with PJ would be just that. As they say, money talks, and in New Line's case, can sort out any personal quabble :)

[devilof76]

The website that reported the Raimi as director, PJ as producer didn't have a source, it's just one reporter speculating. I don't think much to that report at all.

Basically I think what is happening is: New Line have had a series of dreadful films recently, and not releasing as many as they would like, Hairspray being the only recent success. There are alot of changes going on at the company and they're increasingly getting into the situation they were in before they took on lotr. New Line has a history of taking a risk and they knew how well it worked out with lotr, so I'll bet that they're thinking they'll have a guaranteed hit if the Hobbit is done with PJ.....and I think the fans can have a big say in whether he's producer or director......PJ's letter to theonering.net was to show whose side the fans are on. New Line need money, they need a hit. The Hobbit with PJ would be just that. As they say, money talks, and in New Line's case, can sort out any personal quabble :)


No quarter!!!:rock :rock :rock

[pixletwin]

I hope if/when they do make it, that the 2 part movie idea wins out. I would love to see the wizards fighting the witcking of angmar. :rock

[Bannister]

I hope if/when they do make it, that the 2 part movie idea wins out. I would love to see the wizards fighting the witcking of angmar. :rock

:rock:rock:rock

[devlinboy]

i heard that PJ will only do this movie if rory posts the home video of frodo defiling him with his mouth. thats just rumor but i think it is spot on.

[Bannister]

i heard that PJ will only do this movie if rory posts the home video of frodo defiling him with his mouth. thats just rumor but i think it is spot on.

I heard PJ will only make it if he gets to rape dekdave's childhood first.:lol

[devlinboy]

I heard PJ will only make it if he gets to rape dekdave's childhood first.:lol

i heard that also. that PJ is all about deflowering the innocent ...or the not so innocent in rory's case

[creature4000]

after the mess Rami did with Spidey 3... I have no hope of hime making a good Hobbit!!! :monkey2

[Anzik Hayes]

New Line has to look at the big picture. The fans and all their money, wants PJ, so NL should do whats sensible. If they have him make the film it will fit in with the rest, they will make huge profits on the box office and licensing. Another whole opportunity to rip off the people involved in the film.

[gideon]

Look like MGM is having trouble raising funds. This from the Financial Times.


Credit crunch hits $1bn MGM finance plan
By Matthew Garrahan in Los Angeles and James Politi in New York

Published: August 15 2007 22:02 | Last updated: August 15 2007 22:02

The credit crunch shaking world markets has hit Hollywood after Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank, which were trying to raise up to $1bn to finance films for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, withdrew their commitment to underwrite the deal. Bringing in private equity, hedge fund and institutional investors to fund “slates” of several films has become a popular way for Hollywood studios to spread the risk attached to production.

But with credit markets tightening, the attempt by the banks to raise $700m-$1bn for MGM productions and co-productions has been blown off-course, according to people close to the situation.

The financing would have provided funds for films including The Hobbit, an MGM co-production with New Line Entertainment, and the fourth instalment in the Terminator franchise. It is also likely that funds would have gone towards the next James Bond film, an MGM co-production with Sony.

Goldman declined to comment and Deutsche did not return calls. The financing has not been abandoned, however, with the banks believed to have moved from an underwriting commitment to a “best efforts” commitment to complete the financing.

But the underwriting withdra