PDA

View Full Version : The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings



The Josh
01-03-2013, 12:23 PM
I figured I'd create a thread for anyone who might want to talk about the books, movies, and/or how they all relate to each other.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/Sideshow_SuperFan/More%20Photos/jrr_tolkien_hobbit_alan_lee001_zpsc7c42396.jpg http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/Sideshow_SuperFan/More%20Photos/lotr_zpsde517284.png

ZaCHw117
01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Here's a question for you Josh,

In LOTR why is Sauron so evil? Does he have a motive to take over middle earth or?

Also, the race of Orcs, why they always be so bad? Why didn't they split after Sauron was defeated?

:lol Stupid questions, I know. Have always wondered though.

thecapn
01-03-2013, 02:22 PM
If I recall correctly, the orcs were once elves that were taken by Sauron and beaten and battered until they forgot who they were and became a race all their own. But a more knowledgeable Tolkein fan would probably know more :)

The Josh
01-03-2013, 02:37 PM
Here's a question for you Josh,

In LOTR why is Sauron so evil? Does he have a motive to take over middle earth or?

Also, the race of Orcs, why they always be so bad? Why didn't they split after Sauron was defeated?

:lol Stupid questions, I know. Have always wondered though.

Well, he wasn't evil to start with. He's actually a Maiar and started off a good guy, but he was drawn to Melkor who was a bad guy. Sauron also wanted order and things to go as he wanted them to go. So long story short he gets corrupted and becomes what we see and read about.

As the person above me said Orcs were created by evil and from there populated Middle-earth. After Sauron's defeat they went about their business but it was done in the sneaky way we see Orcs do things. As Sauron started to come back they showed themselves more.

ZaCHw117
01-03-2013, 03:15 PM
Ah, so why didn't Sauron create more "one rings" for his followers? And what exact power would it give him? Besides being able to turn invisible?

Kibagami
01-03-2013, 03:15 PM
Anyone try to read The Silmarillion? :lol

Tried in eigth grade. Big failure on my part. Wasn't able to get past the first chapter.

Radagaster
01-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Orcs were once elves corrupted by Melkor.

On a side note, if there's a great movie review that ties both books with chronological info, it's this one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/dislike-peter-jacksons-em_b_2342591.html

Radagaster
01-03-2013, 03:18 PM
Anyone try to read The Silmarillion? :lol

Tried in eigth grade. Big failure on my part. Wasn't able to get past the first chapter.

Tried it as well. Had to go the audio book route, which helped digest the book, plus puts the correct emphasis in what's written where needed. Otherwise I would be stumbling into long sentences without getting the gist had I stuck to reading.

Radagaster
01-03-2013, 03:19 PM
One thing that's thrown me off to date: Why did Sauron covet the other rings if he already had the One Ring? What would owning the other rings do for him, since he could control the owners of the others through the One Ring??

Kibagami
01-03-2013, 03:20 PM
Tried it as well. Had to go the audio book route, which helped digest the book, plus puts the correct emphasis in what's written where needed. Otherwise I would be stumbling into long sentences without getting the gist had I stuck to reading.

:lol

Right? Oh man, one sentence was as long as a paragraph. After that I would be like ... "What the **** did I read?"

Anyhow, I'm tempted to pick it up and have at it. Again.

The Josh
01-03-2013, 03:40 PM
Ah, so why didn't Sauron create more "one rings" for his followers? And what exact power would it give him? Besides being able to turn invisible?

Well, he put everything into that one ring. So after he did that he didn't need to and probably couldn't to be honest. It gave him the ability to control and corrupt those wearing the rings. They would be turned into slaves of Sauron much like the Ringwraiths did. The Elves could feel Sauron and so after they realized it was Sauron they took them off. The sickness you see from Thror at the start of The Hobbit was because of the Dwarf ring he received.


Anyone try to read The Silmarillion? :lol

Tried in eigth grade. Big failure on my part. Wasn't able to get past the first chapter.

Read it cover to cover last year. :yess:


Orcs were once elves corrupted by Melkor.

On a side note, if there's a great movie review that ties both books with chronological info, it's this one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/dislike-peter-jacksons-em_b_2342591.html

Correct.

I linked that article in the movie thread. I agree with the article as a whole.


One thing that's thrown me off to date: Why did Sauron covet the other rings if he already had the One Ring? What would owning the other rings do for him, since he could control the owners of the others through the One Ring??

After he was defeated he needed to draw all the power he could to himself. It would probably along with the one ring would allow him to create enough energy to retake physical form.

marker2037
01-03-2013, 04:21 PM
One thing that's thrown me off to date: Why did Sauron covet the other rings if he already had the One Ring? What would owning the other rings do for him, since he could control the owners of the others through the One Ring??

He never was able to control the Dwarves through the rings so that's why he took them back. Yes the rings did influence the dwarves but mainly it made them want gold and riches even more and make them more secluded by mining further and further in the mountains. He never had the full control over their will as he did with the 9 rings of men. He probably realized that he couldn't control them from afar so by taking all the rings back he could have his complete power back in his bodily form.

edit: I'd love to actually see how PJ would show Sauron as Annatar deceiving the Elves to forge the rings. His "fair" form.

roguebaron
01-03-2013, 04:26 PM
Anyone try to read The Silmarillion? :lol

Read it a few years back, you need to force yourself through about the first 100 pages or so, until everything starts to make sense, then it's actually a decent read. Quite enjoyed it once I got it finished with.

Kibagami
01-03-2013, 04:28 PM
It's a must; I suppose if you're a big fan of it all. It describes everything from beginning to end.

TD-0488
01-03-2013, 11:04 PM
At the time of the war of the rings...Sauron did have a physical form...

From the Encyclopedia of Arda...

Sauron was a Maia, and in his early career this meant that he had the ability to change shape at will: in the First Age, he seems to have had a generally human form (he's variously described as smiling, laughing, standing and so on), though in his battle with Huan he was able to shift freely between the forms of a wolf, a serpent and a flying vampire. In the Second Age, during the time when the Rings of Power were made, he took on the semblance of a noble teacher. However, his shape-changing abilities were not limitless, and after the Downfall of Númenor they were severely curtailed:

'...he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men...' (1)
After his defeat in the War of the Last Alliance, things became even worse for him, and he lost his physical form altogether:

'...he forsook his body, and his spirit fled far away and hid in waste places; and he took no visible shape again for many long years.' (2)
This was in the last year of the Second Age. The story of The Lord of the Rings is set more than three thousand years later, in the closing years of the Third Age, but that book includes only the slightest hints of a description of Sauron. No doubt Tolkien kept Sauron in the shadows for good dramatic reasons, leaving it to the reader's imagination to create something darker and more fearsome than a mere description could convey. This literary device has left behind something of a puzzle: what actually did Sauron look like? For that matter, did he have any kind of physical body at all?

The question is made more complicated by the recurrence of the image of the Red Eye, which often appears to signify Sauron. In some places, this is clearly used as a symbol, but in others it actually seems to be - at least partially - a physical description. This is the Eye that Frodo saw in the Mirror of Galadriel:

'The Eye was rimmed with fire, but was itself glazed, yellow as a cat's, watchful and intent, and the black slit of its pupil opened on a pit, a window into nothing.' (3)
This has led more than a few readers to interpret the Eye absolutely literally, to the point where Sauron is imagined simply as a burning eyeball. The most notable of these readers, of course, is Peter Jackson, who used the motif of the glowing eye throughout his trilogy of movies. Indeed, at one point in the movie The Fellowship of the Ring, Saruman explicitly states of Sauron that 'he cannot yet take physical form' (though nothing comparable to this appears in the book).

This isn't an unreasonable position to take. There are numerous references to the Red Eye as a symbol for Sauron, and in places it's difficult to tell where the symbol ends and the physical description begins. For example:

'The Red Eye will be looking towards Isengard.' (4)
On the other hand, there are several references to 'the red eye' that clearly have nothing to do with Sauron at all. There's an example of this in the following quote, where the 'red eye' is in the Tower of Cirith Ungol:

'Now the orc-tower was right above him, frowning black, and in it the red eye glowed.' (6)
Here, the idea of the red eye embodies the unsleeping watchfulness of Mordor, and has no direct relation to Sauron. In fact, there are reasons to think that the capitalised 'Red Eye' is simply an extension of this metaphor. For example, speaking of Sauron's fingers, Gollum - who has apparently seen the Dark Lord with his own eyes - says:

'He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough.' (5)
It follows that if Sauron has a Black Hand, he cannot merely be a Red Eye. There seems to be at least one metaphor in use here. Actually, there is quite a weight of evidence within The Lord of the Rings that Sauron had some kind of physical form:

'...if the Nameless One himself should come, not even he could enter here while we yet live.' (7)
'And the prisoner is to be kept safe and intact ... until He [Sauron] sends or comes Himself.' (6)
'He [Sauron] will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won.' (7)
The characters who say these lines (including his own Orcs) all seem to believe that Sauron could easily travel from one place to another. In particular, Aragorn seems to believe that Sauron not only has a physical form, but that it would be possible to do harm to that form:

'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him.' (8)
Curiously, this line was used word-for-word in the movie version of The Return of the King, despite the fact that Sauron was depicted there as an apparently immobile glowing eye.

If we move to Tolkien's letters, it becomes hard to avoid the conclusion that Sauron did, indeed, have a physical shape. For instance, there's a reference there to:

'...the year 1000 of the Third Age, when the shadow of Sauron began first to grow again to new shape.' (9)
The War of the Ring started in the year 3018 of the Third Age - it's hard to imagine that after more than two thousand years, Sauron still hadn't formed a new shape for himself. There's another reference among Tolkien's letters that goes even further, to the extent that it effectively settles the discussion:

'Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.' (10)
This is from a letter specifically discussing the events at the end of The Lord of the Rings, so there's really no question that it describes Sauron as Tolkien saw him then. In fact, it seems that the huge armoured Sauron that appears at the beginning of the movie The Fellowship of the Ring probably fits Tolkien's vision rather better than the image of a glowing eye.

Sources
1 The Silmarillion: Akallabęth
2 The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
3 The Fellowship of the Ring II 7, The Mirror of Galadriel
4 The Two Towers III 9, Flotsam & Jetsam
5 The Two Towers IV 3, The Black Gate is Closed
6 The Two Towers IV 10, The Choices of Master Samwise
7 The Return of the King V 4, The Siege of Gondor
8 The Return of the King V 10, The Black Gate Opens
9 The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 144, dated 1954
10 The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 246, dated 1963

TD-0488
01-03-2013, 11:09 PM
Not all the dwarf rings were recovered by Sauron. Some were destroyed by dragons.

Sauron created the seven for dwarves and nine for men. He played no part in creating the three elvish. They were made by Celebrimor, son of Feanor.

The Josh
01-03-2013, 11:37 PM
Yeah, I've always imagined Sauron had some kind of physical form. Something as simple as say what we saw of the Necromancer in The Hobbit.

Right not all of them were recovered. He didn't create the Elvish rings but he did show them how to create them. That is how he was able to even through his ring control them. He deceived the Elves and and taught them the skills needed.

TD-0488
01-04-2013, 12:02 AM
Yes, he did teach them. Another interesting read is a book called Morogoth's Ring. Basically tells how magic is in middle earth. It is where Melkor (he who arises in might) put his power in ME to control his building of great structures. This is the magic used to make the rings of power.

Which is one on the reasons Sauron is so powerful...Melkor gave he some of his power. The same with Gothmog, Glaurung ( the great worm), and Charoroth (sp) the great wolf.

Celebrimbor was great in creating, just as his father.

Explains why Gandolf is afraid of Sauron and did not want to come as a wizard. Manwe makes him leave Valinor and go to ME.

The Josh
01-04-2013, 12:47 AM
Sounds like an interesting book and I'll have to check it out sometime in the future. :rock

I agree it totally explains why Gandalf is fearful of Sauron and what would become of Middle-earth if he was left to take over.

Snadinator
01-04-2013, 01:03 AM
Strangely enough if Gandalf wore the one ring he would be more powerful than Sauron as he would be adding its power to his own. It would corrupt him eventually though.

Gandalf wields one of the elven rings of power. Narya. It is believed it gives him the power to inspire courage and hope in others.

Snadinator
01-04-2013, 01:07 AM
The sickness you see from Thror at the start of The Hobbit was because of the Dwarf ring he receive.

Pretty sure that is debated whether or not that "sickness" is inherent or if it is due to the dwarven rings of power.

The Josh
01-04-2013, 01:51 AM
Strangely enough if Gandalf wore the one ring he would be more powerful than Sauron as he would be adding its power to his own. It would corrupt him eventually though.

Gandalf wields one of the elven rings of power. Narya. It is believed it gives him the power to inspire courage and hope in others.

Right and that's why he turns it down. He could do a lot of good but it would be outweighed by the evil it would eventually do.

It's the Fire Ring. It's given to Gandalf to help with his struggles in Middle-earth as he begins to battle Sauron. Basically starting the fire of hope in Middle-earth to combat the fire of evil Sauron has started. I've also seen where its been said that it helped him in instances against The Balrog. It's also a reason why Saruman did not care for Gandalf as he thought himself more worthy if the ring.


Pretty sure that is debated whether or not that "sickness" is inherent or if it is due to the dwarven rings of power.

I'm sure it's been debated. However, I think the evidence out there shows it helped make the Dwarves more eager to keep digging for treasures. Though this wasn't Sauron's intent as he wanted to take them over just like Men but the Dwarves resisted that part. In the end it just made them greedy and why Sauron just took back the rings he could.

RyanGabriel
01-06-2013, 12:47 AM
Hi Josh, just quick question.

You suggested a good LotR book a couple of months ago and cant seem to find it, can you post the link again please? And if you have a suggestion on the hobbit please post the link as well. I'm planning to replace my Lotr book box set which i bought some 10 years ago

Thanks,
Rich


I figured I'd create a thread for anyone who might want to talk about the books, movies, and/or how they all relate to each other.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/Sideshow_SuperFan/More%20Photos/jrr_tolkien_hobbit_alan_lee001_zpsc7c42396.jpg http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/Sideshow_SuperFan/More%20Photos/lotr_zpsde517284.png

marker2037
01-06-2013, 12:58 AM
I have this one here. It's pretty beautiful.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cDpLUpsLL._SS500_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618517650/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618640150&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0XKGKSRY4NY7YXBS6154

The Josh
01-06-2013, 01:13 AM
Hi Josh, just quick question.

You suggested a good LotR book a couple of months ago and cant seem to find it, can you post the link again please? And if you have a suggestion on the hobbit please post the link as well. I'm planning to replace my Lotr book box set which i bought some 10 years ago

Thanks,
Rich

Hey :)

Well, that copy above is one I have and it's worth price. That's probably the best version out there IMO. If you want something else let me know and I'll find ya something as far as The Hobbit I'd go for the collectors edition or the Alan Lee version (cover shown in first post). Both are only being sold through secondary sellers on Amazon.

If you just want paperback there is a 4 book set you can get from amazon pretty cheap.

Adolfo
01-06-2013, 06:42 AM
Not all the dwarf rings were recovered by Sauron. Some were destroyed by dragons.

Sauron created the seven for dwarves and nine for men. He played no part in creating the three elvish. They were made by Celebrimor, son of Feanor.

But he desired the Elvish rings most of all after his own

RyanGabriel
01-06-2013, 06:12 PM
Thanks for the link.


I have this one here. It's pretty beautiful.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cDpLUpsLL._SS500_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618517650/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618640150&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0XKGKSRY4NY7YXBS6154

RyanGabriel
01-06-2013, 06:13 PM
Thanks Josh, really appreciate it.


Hey :)

Well, that copy above is one I have and it's worth price. That's probably the best version out there IMO. If you want something else let me know and I'll find ya something as far as The Hobbit I'd go for the collectors edition or the Alan Lee version (cover shown in first post). Both are only being sold through secondary sellers on Amazon.

If you just want paperback there is a 4 book set you can get from amazon pretty cheap.

The Josh
01-06-2013, 06:15 PM
No problem. :duff

RyanGabriel
01-06-2013, 11:28 PM
Josh or any of our fellow LotR fan, another question regarding the book, As I never read the Appendeges of any of the book.

Did they mention in the book why did the dwarfs in Erebor did not participate in the events of the LOTR. To think that there is a few dwarfs that join the council on what to do with the One Ring.

Thanks,
Rich

marker2037
01-06-2013, 11:35 PM
I thought I remembered that there are other events taking place in Middle Earth in Mirkwood and that area east of the Misty Mountains that are keeping the others out of the main battles. The dwarves and woodland elves, etc.

RyanGabriel
01-06-2013, 11:42 PM
Thanks for the info bud. I'm glad we have this thread and can ask fellow fan of the series.


I thought I remembered that there are other events taking place in Middle Earth in Mirkwood and that area east of the Misty Mountains that are keeping the others out of the main battles. The dwarves and woodland elves, etc.

TD-0488
01-06-2013, 11:49 PM
I thought I remembered that there are other events taking place in Middle Earth in Mirkwood and that area east of the Misty Mountains that are keeping the others out of the main battles. The dwarves and woodland elves, etc.


This is correct. War is all over ME. Mirkwood almost falls...Galadriel has victory in her battle. Minas Tirith is just the main battle. Men, particularly the men of Numenor, must fall. Plus, they are closest to his boarder.

marker2037
01-07-2013, 07:10 AM
Thanks for the info bud. I'm glad we have this thread and can ask fellow fan of the series.

You're welcome.

I agree this is a great thread!

Adolfo
01-07-2013, 07:35 AM
Josh or any of our fellow LotR fan, another question regarding the book, As I never read the Appendeges of any of the book.

Did they mention in the book why did the dwarfs in Erebor did not participate in the events of the LOTR. To think that there is a few dwarfs that join the council on what to do with the One Ring.

Thanks,
Rich

Sauron's forces Attacked Erebor and killed Dain and the king of Dale, Plus one of the reasons they sent some Dwarves to the Council of Elrond is to warn Bilbo that Sauron was looking for him(Sauron sent an emmisary maybe Mouth of Sauron or Ringwraith to Erebor to ask Dain where Bilbo was because he had a ring(trinket) that belonged to Sauron...He promised the Dwarven rings of power back to Dain and even Moria if he gave Bilbo up...They didnt)...another reason they went to Rivendell was to find out what happened to Balin and company in Moria because communications suddenly stopped...

Adolfo
01-07-2013, 07:37 AM
I thought I remembered that there are other events taking place in Middle Earth in Mirkwood and that area east of the Misty Mountains that are keeping the others out of the main battles. The dwarves and woodland elves, etc.

Galadrials kin were fighting the forces of Dol Guldur with the help of Thranduil and the Beornings I believe too

RyanGabriel
01-07-2013, 10:04 AM
Awesome guys, thanks got the info.

NAZGUL-KING
01-07-2013, 10:26 AM
I have this one here. It's pretty beautiful.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cDpLUpsLL._SS500_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618517650/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618640150&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0XKGKSRY4NY7YXBS6154

:exactly:Yup, that's my favorite out of the (4) versions of LOTR that I have.

Fritz
01-08-2013, 09:43 AM
When I read about hog riders, I figured I'd look into any mention of pigs in Middle Earth and found this little tidbit that probably doesn't interest anyone but me... :lol

SOURCE - Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/boars.html)

Boars
Aggressive tusked beasts common to woodland regions. The most famous of all the boars of Middle-earth was the great Boar of Everholt, that lived beneath the trees of the Firien Wood. This boar was hunted by King Folca of Rohan, and though he eventually killed his quarry, the King was mortally wounded in the encounter.

Snadinator
01-08-2013, 12:12 PM
Josh or any of our fellow LotR fan, another question regarding the book, As I never read the Appendeges of any of the book.

Did they mention in the book why did the dwarfs in Erebor did not participate in the events of the LOTR. To think that there is a few dwarfs that join the council on what to do with the One Ring.

Thanks,
Rich

Yes... they were actually at war with Orcs themselves at Erebor. So were the Elves of Mirkwood.

LOTR and The Hobbit are written from the perspective of the hobbits.

Edit: Silly forum made the post I quoted appear as the last post here... I see others have already answered.

RyanGabriel
01-09-2013, 11:57 AM
Thanks for all the info fellow Ring Fan. It gives a lot of info to a fan like me.

And I'm happy to say my love for LotR is rubbing on to my almost 9 years old son. Funny thing is he always see me watching the LotR Trilogy atleast 3 time a year and he never really give any attention all those years. But that changes when he saw The Hobbit, he was blown away and now very interested on asking question about how the LotR connects to The Hobbit. And he started reading the book:)

NAZGUL-KING
01-09-2013, 12:17 PM
Thanks for all the info fellow Ring Fan. It gives a lot of info to a fan like me.

And I'm happy to say my love for LotR is rubbing on to my almost 9 years old son. Funny thing is he always see me watching the LotR Trilogy atleast 3 time a year and he never really give any attention all those years. But that changes when he saw The Hobbit, he was blown away and now very interested on asking question about how the LotR connects to The Hobbit. And he started reading the book:)

That's very cool. My son just turned seven so he wasn't even around to see LOTR in the theaters. He started getting into LOTR when he was about four and would see us watching it. It was awesome to be able to take him to see The Hobbit a couple times.

Speaking of little kids and The Hobbit just reminded me of something when we saw it the 2nd time. A family about 5 rows below us decided to bring their 2 year-old:slap and she totally freaked out during The Battle Of Azanulbizar. That was the end of movie day for them.:lol

DPrime
01-09-2013, 12:36 PM
I'm re-reading the Hobbit after seeing the film a few weeks ago. Good stuff.

My copy is actually "The Annotated Hobbit", which is full of notes, including connections to the LotR, but also information on Tolkien's influences, differences between the first edition and Tolkien's later revision (to connect better to the later LotR), and a few definitions of some rather uncommon words. (Did you know what "attercop" meant when you first read it? Didn't think so!)

It's also got lots of illustrations that were made for various editions in other languages. Pretty interesting, overall. I think I paid about $10-15 for mine at a Coles bookstore, and it looks like you can still get it rather cheap on Amazon.

The Josh
01-09-2013, 12:44 PM
Thanks for all the info fellow Ring Fan. It gives a lot of info to a fan like me.

And I'm happy to say my love for LotR is rubbing on to my almost 9 years old son. Funny thing is he always see me watching the LotR Trilogy atleast 3 time a year and he never really give any attention all those years. But that changes when he saw The Hobbit, he was blown away and now very interested on asking question about how the LotR connects to The Hobbit. And he started reading the book:)

Nice! I think that's great and its what will help Middle-earth last even longer. I mean its been around since 1937 and I hope it lasts well after I'm gone so people can keep on enjoying it.


I'm re-reading the Hobbit after seeing the film a few weeks ago. Good stuff.

My copy is actually "The Annotated Hobbit", which is full of notes, including connections to the LotR, but also information on Tolkien's influences, differences between the first edition and Tolkien's later revision (to connect better to the later LotR), and a few definitions of some rather uncommon words. (Did you know what "attercop" meant when you first read it? Didn't think so!)

It's also got lots of illustrations that were made for various editions in other languages. Pretty interesting, overall. I think I paid about $10-15 for mine at a Coles bookstore, and it looks like you can still get it rather cheap on Amazon.

I have that version. I've just never looked at it. I also have a great 2 book edition that is similar with even more detail its called "The History of The Hobbit." I think either version but maybe especially The Annotated Hobbit will help people understand the importance of adding what Jackson has added to give more to The Hobbit as a story.

NAZGUL-KING
01-09-2013, 01:36 PM
These are the versions that I currently own:

My very first copy from 1984. I gave it to my son and at seven he's a very good reader, but it's gonna be a couple years before he tackles the whole thing.:lol It was music to my ears to hear him read "In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit..." all by himself.:yess:
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy293/NAZGUL1072/Hobbit-1984_zpsbfe9c88f.jpg

I got this version back in 1987 when I was a freshman in High School.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy293/NAZGUL1072/Hobbit-50th_zpse0f68103.jpg

My Wife got me this pocket sized, leather bound edition for Christmas and is my favorite.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy293/NAZGUL1072/CIMG1098-1_zpsaf7844e1.jpg

DPrime
01-09-2013, 07:09 PM
^ Nice copies. :)

If I ever become really, really wealthy, I'm going to track down a first edition, so help me god... :)


I have that version. I've just never looked at it. I also have a great 2 book edition that is similar with even more detail its called "The History of The Hobbit." I think either version but maybe especially The Annotated Hobbit will help people understand the importance of adding what Jackson has added to give more to The Hobbit as a story.

Totally agree. :)

That was a good article you posted, btw. Does it strike anyone else that today's audiences just don't have any patience these days? Why can't a movie have a nice, easy pace - so what if it's long? This is a long journey, after all.

I'm sure today's critics would call several of the excellent '60s epics "boring". :)

The Josh
01-09-2013, 08:31 PM
Thanks! I'm with ya. It's the do now instant culture. Thing is this is the shortest film based on Middle-earth. You cannot watch these films and not know there is a process of a journey to tell these amazing stories.

Snadinator
01-09-2013, 09:15 PM
Wish Christopher Tolkien would take a chill pill and let the Silnarillion be made into a film. Denying his father's work to be adapted seems selfish to me.

The Josh
01-09-2013, 09:32 PM
I don't agree with his stance but I understand why he's protective. Check out TORn for a great article on the subject.

Sachiel
01-09-2013, 09:34 PM
Yeah... he would have to take a pretty big chill pill. :lol

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/01/07/68174-concerning-christopher-an-essay-on-tolkiens-sons-decision-to-not-allow-further-cinematic-licensing-of-his-work/

DPrime
01-10-2013, 05:40 AM
Wish Christopher Tolkien would take a chill pill and let the Silnarillion be made into a film. Denying his father's work to be adapted seems selfish to me.

I see his point, though.

I, for one, feel very, very lucky that I was introduced to Tolkien as a teenager in the '90s, well before the films were made. As well done as the movies were, I am glad that I read the books first.

That said, the Silmarillion is almost unreadable, for most people anyway. More than either the Hobbit or LotR, its story would benefit from a retelling on the big screen... or perhaps an HBO miniseries?

To be quite honest, if Jackson wasn't going to be involved, I'd feel more secure if it were in the hands of HBO than pretty much any filmmaker out there.

Adolfo
01-10-2013, 06:16 AM
One day it will happen...but CT will have to pass away for that to happen...I would love to see a film on The Kingdom of Angmar/confict of Arnor and the conflict of Earnur and The Witch-King and how the Stewards of Gondor came to be....basically showing the kingdom lose it's territories, Towers and Palintirs...the decline of the Dunedain.....alot could be done there

morgulpaul
01-10-2013, 06:33 AM
Im not sure it will happen, and to be honest while I am a huge fan of the movies I am a fan of the books first, it was Tolkiens lifeblood (the Silmarillion) and it would not get the right treatment. I think as previously mentioned a miniseries would be good, like Game of thrones.

Snadinator
01-10-2013, 09:24 AM
If anything, the films have encouraged more people to read the books than ever.

Isn't "The Lord of the Rings" the second most read book in the world next to the Bible? I know it was at one time anyhow. What is the concern?

Snadinator
01-10-2013, 09:29 AM
I see his point, though.

I, for one, feel very, very lucky that I was introduced to Tolkien as a teenager in the '90s, well before the films were made. As well done as the movies were, I am glad that I read the books first.

That said, the Silmarillion is almost unreadable, for most people anyway. More than either the Hobbit or LotR, its story would benefit from a retelling on the big screen... or perhaps an HBO miniseries?

To be quite honest, if Jackson wasn't going to be involved, I'd feel more secure if it were in the hands of HBO than pretty much any filmmaker out there.

I read the books long before the films too. I think Jackson has done a terrific job. Literature is art. Art is interpreted differently in the eye of the beholder. A painter paints a canvas and two people see different things. You read a book and your visualization is very different than anothers. This was Jackson's interpretation of Middle-Earth and I think he has done a wonderful job. I know I did not visualize The Great Goblin and Radagast as he did, but I am ok with it. I know the release of the films prompted me to re-read all the books.

I know the silmarillion is almost unreadable. Making a film and putting it into context would likely dramatically assist others to make sense of the events in the book after watching the film.

It appears Christopher is a dinosaur caught in the past. Hopefully his children will be more open minded.

Snadinator
01-10-2013, 09:30 AM
Im not sure it will happen, and to be honest while I am a huge fan of the movies I am a fan of the books first, it was Tolkiens lifeblood (the Silmarillion) and it would not get the right treatment. I think as previously mentioned a miniseries would be good, like Game of thrones.

A high budget miniseries (like GoT or Band of Brothers) is a great idea. No reason why Jackson couldn't direct that as well.

DPrime
01-10-2013, 09:43 AM
A high budget miniseries (like GoT or Band of Brothers) is a great idea. No reason why Jackson couldn't direct that as well.

Except he'll probably want to move on from Tolkien's world at that point - and who could blame him? :)

Snadinator
01-10-2013, 10:04 AM
Except he'll probably want to move on from Tolkien's world at that point - and who could blame him? :)

Then we can get Guillermo Del Toro as Director and Jackson as creative consultant or executive producer.

Kibagami
01-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Im not sure it will happen, and to be honest while I am a huge fan of the movies I am a fan of the books first, it was Tolkiens lifeblood (the Silmarillion) and it would not get the right treatment. I think as previously mentioned a miniseries would be good, like Game of thrones.

Really? I thought the lord of the rings would be more his magnum opus, his lifeblood.

But your statement intrigues me; I really want to make another attempt at that book; 19 years later.

:panic:

Adolfo
01-10-2013, 12:05 PM
Really? I thought the lord of the rings would be more his magnum opus, his lifeblood.

But your statement intrigues me; I really want to make another attempt at that book; 19 years later.

:panic:

Get the Middle Earth Atlas to help out reading the book...The maps are great seeing where what took place...it helps

DPrime
01-10-2013, 05:41 PM
Then we can get Guillermo Del Toro as Director and Jackson as creative consultant or executive producer.

But would either want to do a mini-series?

Doesn't matter though - I don't think I've ever seen an HBO series that wasn't done extremely well. They'd find the talent.

Mind you, I never watched Sex and the City... but then again, I'm sure it's a great show - I'm just not the target audience! :)

The Ween
01-12-2013, 06:19 PM
My Wife got me this pocket sized, leather bound edition for Christmas and is my favorite.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy293/NAZGUL1072/CIMG1098-1_zpsaf7844e1.jpg

I got that as a Secret Santa gift at school! :D

Kuzeh
01-15-2013, 10:09 AM
Currently reading The Hobbit, I wanted to finish it before the film, but didn't :lol
Also, my wife gave me the LOTR trilogy book for Christmas, should start reading it soon after I'm done with The Hobbit!

The Josh
01-15-2013, 11:14 AM
Currently reading The Hobbit, I wanted to finish it before the film, but didn't :lol
Also, my wife gave me the LOTR trilogy book for Christmas, should start reading it soon after I'm done with The Hobbit!

Very nice :hi5:

Kibagami
01-15-2013, 11:24 AM
This is more movie related; but I thought this was an awesome read or more so, look than read since it's mostly design artwork for the movie:

http://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Unexpected-Journey-Chronicles-Design/dp/0062200909/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358274249&sr=1-1&keywords=the+hobbit+chronicles



I'll be buying this ...

The Josh
01-15-2013, 11:29 AM
That's the Weta Art Book. I have it and its awesome. If you liked the movie at all one should get it. They have a part 2 to that book coming out in the spring.

Kibagami
01-15-2013, 11:30 AM
That's the Weta Art Book. I have it and its awesome. If you liked the movie at all one should get it. They have a part 2 to that book coming out in the spring.

Hot dog! A part 2? I'm there for both.

The Josh
01-15-2013, 12:25 PM
Yeah, it should be pretty sweet. :rock Its up for PO right now on Amazon.

T.E.D
01-15-2013, 03:27 PM
This may be old news to some people but I just discovered that the fold out map in the Art and Design chronicles book has glow in the dark dwarven moon runes printed onto it, I thought that was a really nice little touch.

Kibagami
01-15-2013, 03:31 PM
This may be old news to some people but I just discovered that the fold out map in the Art and Design chronicles book has glow in the dark dwarven moon runes printed onto it, I thought that was a really nice little touch.

News to me. :lol

lcummins
01-15-2013, 03:43 PM
...That said, the Silmarillion is almost unreadable, for most people anyway...

I was a freshman in college when it was released; I got two copies on release day and dived right into it and never really had a problem reading it. I did get a bit lost with all the names and places, and would sometimes have to backtrack to remember who was who.

The Josh
01-16-2013, 01:27 PM
I was a freshman in college when it was released; I got two copies on release day and dived right into it and never really had a problem reading it. I did get a bit lost with all the names and places, and would sometimes have to backtrack to remember who was who.

It wasn't so much a problem reading for me. When I had tried before it just felt a bit dry in places that I don't really get from The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. As a whole its a great resource when wanting to know more about Middle-earth.

Fritz
01-16-2013, 01:41 PM
I can understand why people would find it difficult to read. The first part is almost history text bookish or reference before it's gets to more novel like later on.

But don't take my word for it, :read

DPrime
01-20-2013, 07:30 AM
I was a freshman in college when it was released; I got two copies on release day and dived right into it and never really had a problem reading it. I did get a bit lost with all the names and places, and would sometimes have to backtrack to remember who was who.


It wasn't so much a problem reading for me. When I had tried before it just felt a bit dry in places that I don't really get from The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. As a whole its a great resource when wanting to know more about Middle-earth.

I thought it was like reading the Bible a lot of the time... I got through it, but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as LotR or the Hobbit, that's for sure.

Mind you, that was way back when I was in high school. I'd like to give it another try now, if I can find my copy...

The Josh
01-20-2013, 07:50 AM
I plan on reading if again. Might make this one an every other year reading.

DPrime
01-20-2013, 02:03 PM
Once I finish the Hobbit maybe I'll give it another go. Or LotR again. :)

The Josh
01-20-2013, 02:24 PM
I'd go LOTR then The Sil.

Darth Cruel
01-26-2013, 12:20 AM
I only by the paperback sets of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I read them too often so I wear them out. And I don't want to buy any kind of an expensive set just to tear up.

I would make an exception if someone would buy these for me as a gift...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J-R-R-TOLKIEN-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-Trilogy-FIRST-EDITION-SET-OF-3-/121027144640?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item1c2dc7abc0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J-R-R-TOLKIEN-The-Hobbit-FIRST-EDITION-WITH-DUST-JACKET-/190760523916?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item2c6a36988c

However, I would, of course, never read them.

Fritz
01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
I only by the paperback sets of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. I read them too often so I wear them out. And I don't want to buy any kind of an expensive set just to tear up.

I would make an exception if someone would buy these for me as a gift...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J-R-R-TOLKIEN-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-Trilogy-FIRST-EDITION-SET-OF-3-/121027144640?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item1c2dc7abc0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J-R-R-TOLKIEN-The-Hobbit-FIRST-EDITION-WITH-DUST-JACKET-/190760523916?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item2c6a36988c

However, I would, of course, never read them.

What a ripoff, you can get three books for $50,000 in the first auction while only one for $45,000 in the second auction. :horror :lol

Adolfo
01-26-2013, 01:52 PM
I had a few chances to get those first editions pretty cheap but never did....another regret...

Batty
03-19-2014, 06:26 PM
I thought I'd post this here since it's Tolkien related. I'm really looking forward to it.

http://www.tolkienbeowulf.com/

NAZGUL-KING
03-21-2014, 11:41 AM
I thought I'd post this here since it's Tolkien related. I'm really looking forward to it.

http://www.tolkienbeowulf.com/

Looks interesting - I'm definitely up reading this. Thanks for the info!

Batty
03-22-2014, 10:41 AM
Looks interesting - I'm definitely up reading this. Thanks for the info!

No problem! I love Beowulf...I can't wait to see Tolkien's take on it.

Pork Chop Express
03-22-2014, 12:05 PM
That looks really interesting, I'll check it out.
Love both Tolkien and Beowulf so it should be worth reading, thanks.

Commander Cody
05-25-2014, 01:34 AM
This year I read the Hobbit and LOTR for the first time.
I read this whole thread and you guys have a wealth of information about middle earth!
Seems I need to find this Silmarillion and read it. I had no idea Middle earth was far bigger than these 4 books. I wondered why it was only man fighting in LoTR and it gets answered here just like that!

Sent from my SPH-M840 using Tapatalk

The Josh
05-25-2014, 09:36 AM
Congrats! That first time is something special. The Sil is a hard book to read so just take your time. I finally was able to get through it after several attempts.

BagginsOfBagEnd
05-25-2014, 11:00 AM
Congrats! That first time is something special. The Sil is a hard book to read so just take your time. I finally was able to get through it after several attempts.

:exactly: I found The Silmarillion very tough going, its a book I really need to try reading again and this time actually finish!!

The Josh
05-25-2014, 12:46 PM
:exactly: I found The Silmarillion very tough going, its a book I really need to try reading again and this time actually finish!!

Slow and steady.

ChibiSchmoo
05-26-2014, 01:21 AM
But not too slow - there's a lot of detail to absorb and its easy to lose all that if you set it aside for too long. It's a very different reading experience than the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. The style is a lot like the narrative portions of the Old Testament Bible (well, the content is like that too, I guess). I'd actually recommend using one of those name guides (like Foster's Guide to Middle Earth) as you go through it - even when you get some spoilers. It helps to see the big picture and figure out which details you should to focus on.

If you find it rough going in the beginning, just know it really picks up after they get out of Valinor. I do love these stories - totally on the same level as the Lord of the Rings to me. Would be a dream to see them attempt to put this on screen. (but we all know the situation with that...)

The Josh
05-26-2014, 08:20 PM
Yeah, i agree with that first part. You cant go too slow and a guide is a goof idea. Some of the Sil is really good and other parts i could do without.

BagginsOfBagEnd
05-27-2014, 08:23 AM
^^ Thanks for the tips both!! I think I'll definitely be giving it another go - hopefully this time I might even get to the end of the book!! :lol :pray:

Pork Chop Express
05-27-2014, 05:42 PM
The more you read Sil the easier it gets. :lol

But you gotta want to go through it to begin with, still my favorite Tolkien.

Adolfo
05-28-2014, 12:03 PM
Treat each chapter of Sil as its own story/book...Sil Is basically the whole Middle Earth story especially regarding first and second age...there are other books that even deeper to explain stories of Sil

K07
12-24-2014, 01:25 PM
I attempted reading LotR about twelve years ago after seeing FotR for the first time. I thought it was boring. I'd like to revisit it. But before I try again, would you suggest I read the Hobbit first or does it not matter?

marker2037
01-10-2015, 10:32 AM
It doesn't matter. The Hobbit has a different tone to it and is a pretty easy read since it's more meant for children. You can easily tell the different audience that LOTR is meant for.

ApeManRyan
01-10-2015, 02:48 PM
I read The Hobbit for the first time and only took me a week to finish. I loved it! I knew once I saw the final Hobbit film I must read the book. I will now read LOTR next.

The Ween
01-14-2015, 04:27 PM
I need to read Sil sometime. I've always been rather nervous to start it because so many say it's a hard read.

Pork Chop Express
01-15-2015, 09:23 PM
I need to read Sil sometime. I've always been rather nervous to start it because so many say it's a hard read.

It's a narrative so it can seem dry at times but there is more than enough dialogue and characters to carry the whole way through. Elves have multiple names for everything; people, events, artifacts, you name it... so it can get confusing. If you can get through it your ME lore will greatly improve.

egel
01-16-2015, 07:30 AM
That's how I read it at the time, purely a way to expand your Middle Earth knowledge. Plus, those name lists help a lot.

starscream0
01-17-2015, 10:21 AM
I need to read Sil sometime. I've always been rather nervous to start it because so many say it's a hard read.

I'm assuming Sil is the Silmarillion :lol

I would encourage anyone to read it. I think the reason people say that it is hard reading (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that a lot of the beginning stories were pieced together by JRR's son Christopher. JRR must have had many stories lying around and Chris had to organize it all. A lot of the beginning chapters are redundant and some material is repeated but the later stories are much easier to read and I found them incredibly enjoyable.

It starts at the very beginning of Middle Earth and that is why I enjoyed it so much. Tolkien was a great story teller

marker2037
01-17-2015, 10:56 AM
It's next on my list of books after I finish A Song of Ice and Fire. And I doubt it can be much harder to follow than that list of characters :lol

starscream0
01-17-2015, 11:19 AM
It's next on my list of books after I finish A Song of Ice and Fire. And I doubt it can be much harder to follow than that list of characters :lol

Oh you'll be fine then :lol