Buffyverse PF Economics

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Games&Theory

Freakalicious
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OK, so I’ll lay my bias out at the very beginning: I want...nay...need...no... absolutely must have the Buffy PF line continue. The thought of seeing the core Buffyverse characters in PF is just too compelling to allow me to sleep peaceably. I know…I’m mad…but I’m packing gumption and a shaky understanding of micro economics. Beware all ye who continue on from here…

The point of this novella is my attmempt at dredging up info from the more knowledgeable sorts on the board. I'm trying to better understand the odds (long though they could be) of seeing all my beloved Scoobies in PF. So, any and all feedback is greatly appreicated!

1) Buffy: the (Profit) Margin Slayer
Ok, I know that the Buffy PF has a higher overall cost due to an investment in a new design/sculpt for her body. Higher costs likely means thinner margins especially when compared to Spike who costs the exact same $250. At least, I PRESUME Spike has a higher profit margin…seeing as how I am guessing he was based off of an existing male body (and possibly even an existing head sculpt).

All that presumptin' leads me to my first question: since there is already an investment in a Buffy body, is it reasonable to expect that this body could also be used to produce PFs of Willow (dear lord, please please please) and Faith (maybe even Anya)?
I’d say those actresses are of similar enough stature to Sarah Michelle Gellar to allow SS to get by with modest tweaks to the basic Buffy PF body. If so, then I would guess they should all have higher profit margins than Buffy and thus make even a low edition sizes a compelling enough reason to keep the line going to SS? Am I even close to right on this, in terms of getting more mileage out the the body?


2) Buffy -vs- the Demand Curve
While I’m cautiously hopeful the Buffy PF will do well enough to cover the investment in a body all by itself (as well as the incremental costs specific to producing Buffy herself), I FIRMLY believe that if SS can also produce at least a Willow in PF (in addition to the Angel we are all guessing/ hope is already in the queue) we'll see more and more Buffy-verse fans step up to the plate and buy becuase they will see the potential (and life) in the PF line. I dare say, customer demand for each subsequent PF should increase as each new one is released as more of the beloved characters are released...with the very important caveat being these subsequent PFs absolutely need to be core members of the Scoobies!!!!!!

I think the trick with this property is that Buffy may be the titular character but fans love the universe equally as much (if not moreso) for the supporting cast. I think if you can get Buffy, Spike, and Willow PFs available…the buy-side demand for the Angels, Xanders, Giles, etc PFs will only increase. I’m not saying the PF customer base will go on to support even half the number of characters available in 12” but I do believe the demand curve is bell shaped and getting 2-3 beloved characters out there will only increase demand for subsequent characters in PF…so much so that I'd bet good money that a more definitive version of Buffy will eventually be demanded (highly demanded)....thus allowing SS to further recoup that intial investment on the original Buffy body.

Anyway, given all this, my second question is: if more Scoobies are made available in PF, would you kind folks expect to see demand increase as the customer/fan base begins to see that they really could think about displaying the core Scoobies?
I'm not complaining by any means to have him, but while Spike is an awesome character (and hands-down a fantastic statue) he does not strike that chord with fans that would have them happily running to sell-out more Buffyverse PFs. I think it's becuase he's the consummate outsider...the rebel...the straight shooter that people love him so much but what the line needs (and what fans want, I think) is to have access to the characters that became a family and went on to truly give the show it's heart. Give use the Scoobies in PF and I believe, I HAVE to believe, this line would soar.

tia for your thoughts!
G&T

PS - for those who made it all the way through, thanks for reading!!!! :D
 
All PFs are new sculpts. There is no cost savings from reusing body molds as with the 1/6 figures.

We have to assume that a good number for a PF is about 1500 (regular +exclusive). This is what Doom is at and he was very popular. Buffy is about half that. I expect Spike could be slightly more and certainly more will be direct sales from Sideshow due to how much better the exclusive is.

If Spike doesn't sell, I'd think the line is dead as there isn't a more popular character in the Buffiverse. And I don't think bringing out a bunch of scoopies will make a difference. I'm the biggest Buffy fan there is, but I don't know that I'd buy a $250 PF of Xander. There has to be an added "ommpf" for a PF - a cool costume, a bad attitude, etc. So fuzzy sweater Willow - no, but Dark Willow - hell yeah!
 
I'm only hoping for a couple things...

1) Buffy turns out well.
2) Sideshow makes a PF Angel figure.

If those two things happen, I will be happy. Buffy, Angel, and Spike will look great together. If Sideshow drops this line and doesn't make an Angel PF figure, I'm going to be extremely disappointed. It will leave a gaping hole in the line. The line will be totally unbalanced.

As far as the core Scoobies go...I love Giles, Willow, and Xander, but I probably wouldn't buy PF figures of them because, let's face it, they're not all that interesting to look at. The vast majority of the time, these three characters appear on the show as everyday people. Fans love their personalities, but there isn't anything remarkable about their looks. Willow is the only "core Scooby" that has the potential to make a good PF figure. She has appeared in some unique outfits/make-up when using her magic. I realize that Willow, Xander, and Giles have appeared in demon form (Fyarl Giles and vampire Willow and Xander), but I'm not inclined to spend a lot of money on "evil" versions of "good guys."

There are two other issues that come into play when discussing PF figures...cost and space. Most people have a limited amount of both. 'Nuff said.


Darklord Dave said:
We have to assume that a good number for a PF is about 1500 (regular +exclusive). This is what Doom is at and he was very popular. Buffy is about half that.

All this means is that in all likelihood the Doom PF figure is more profitable than the Buffy one. Only Sideshow knows what it considers an acceptable or worthwhile amount of profits. Sideshow may be very satisfied with the amount of profits Buffy and Spike are going to bring in.

If Spike doesn't sell, I'd think the line is dead as there isn't a more popular character in the Buffiverse.

I disagree. I am quite confident that Willow is more popular than Spike. If Sideshow hadn't messed up the face sculpt, the 12" Willow would have sold really well.

And I don't think bringing out a bunch of scoopies will make a difference. I'm the biggest Buffy fan there is, but I don't know that I'd buy a $250 PF of Xander. There has to be an added "ommpf" for a PF - a cool costume, a bad attitude, etc.

I agree with that. Xander is a cool character, but he wouldn't make an interesting PF figure. I am quite certain that he would not sell well.
 
Darklord Dave said:
We have to assume that a good number for a PF is about 1500 (regular +exclusive). This is what Doom is at and he was very popular. Buffy is about half that.


I don't think that's true at all. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think Buffy warrants, or would get sales in the 1500+ range, or think that that number is a "base" level to determine success. Doom is a Marvel character, Marvel is bigger than Buffy. 1500 is a number for Marvel but not for lesser properties. There are many PFs that again ARE NOT Marvel, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, that get produced with lower numbers. Heck, even Frodo only had 1000 made, yet I don't think the Lord of the Rings line will end anytime soon.

Look at how many figures have numbers in the 1000-1200 range. Also note that MANY of these are still available. Saying that Buffy must achieve sales in the 1500 range to continue just doesn't jibe with the numbers that are actually produced of many different lines. Yeah, 800 Buffys isn't 1000 but it's not so far off. I think Sideshow hurt some potential Spike sales by having a lame Buffy PF for their first release in the line, but if Spike ( a MUCH better figure IMHO) gets 800-1000 made then the line should continue just fine.

Frodo 1000
John Wayne 1000
Mummy and Sarcophagus 350
Captain Kirk 1000
Spock 1000
Seven of Nine 400 + 200 excl
Moore as Bond 400
Brosnan as Bond 1250
Connery as Bond 2000
Phanton of the Opera 750 (+250 silver screen)
London After Midnight 1,000 (+250 silver screen)
Punisher 1000 250 excl, 250 Tim Bradstreet
Wolfman Silver Screen 250
Logan Wolverine 1500
Elektra 1000 +300 excl
Lurtz 1250 reg 750 excl
Doom 1000 reg 500 excl
Green Goblin 1200
Spiderman 500 excl (regular?)
Jason - Freddy vs Jason 1250
Freddy Krueger 2000
Leatherface exclusive 200 (regular?)
Scarface Tony Montana 1500
Freddy Demon 400
Jason Freddy vs Jason 275
Dracula 1100 silver screen Dracula 300
Hellboy 2000
KISS 200 of each exclusive regular not known
Van Helsing 1500





Obi wan 2250 + 1250 excl
Leia 1250 + 1000 excl
Yoda/Luke 1150 + 1150 excl
Luke Skywalker 2500 + 500 comic 2005 pieces
Darth Vader 2500 + 2000 excl
Han Solo 2500 + 250
Grievous 1500
 
I agree that the Spike PF figure looks like it will be an overall better figure than the Buffy one, but I think your assessment of Buffy is overly harsh. When Buffy was first revealed, many people (even people who aren't fans of Buffy) were pretty impressed. There were complaints about the hair and facial expression, but most liked the rest, especially the likeness.

I like Buffy's pose, and here's why. Having Buffy hold a stake is really a no-brainer. She's known as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, not Buffy the Demon Slayer. Vampires play a central role in the series. They are by far the most significant demon on the show. And Buffy tends to stake vamps rather than cut off their heads. The pose with the ax/hunga munga is definitely a good one, but it really makes more sense for Buffy to be wielding a stake. The big question is...how should she hold it? I think it would have been a mistake to attempt an action pose. I'm very pleased with the pose that was chosen. It's both strong and sexy.
 
BillyBudd said:
I like Buffy's pose, and here's why. Having Buffy hold a stake is really a no-brainer. She's known as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, not Buffy the Demon Slayer. Vampires play a central role in the series. They are by far the most significant demon on the show. And Buffy tends to stake vamps rather than cut off their heads. The pose with the ax/hunga munga is definitely a good one, but it really makes more sense for Buffy to be wielding a stake. The big question is...how should she hold it? I think it would have been a mistake to attempt an action pose. I'm very pleased with the pose that was chosen. It's both strong and sexy.

Right on, I agree.
 
Darklord Dave said:
So fuzzy sweater Willow - no...
Are you kidding? I'd buy a fuzzy-sweatered PF Willow with Change-O-Head™ vamp-face oomph in a New York nano-second!
Darklord Dave said:
...but Dark Willow - hell yeah!
Now you're talkin', Dave! Dark Willow has lots of possibilities, since she sported three different noggins while wearing the Dark Witch suit: Black hair and eyes, smooth complexion; Black hair and eyes, darker lips, veiny complexion; and a standard-issue Willow Rosenberg head. A veiny Dark Witch with an alternate Willow Rosenberg head is a recipe for a deliciously wicked PF.

As far as candidates for additional PFs, I think an Angel figure is very likely but, I wouldn't leave a light on in the window for Xander, Giles, or any of the other scoobs. I'd like to see the Master, though, and characters that are problematic in 1:6, like the Judge.

Regarding edition sizes, they seem about right to me and, I doubt Sideshow had projections of 1,000 pieces or more, considering Tom Gilliland's remarks about reservations over how well-received a PF Buffy might be. I was surprised to see Cordelia set as high as 1500 pieces.

dww.jpg
 
One can only hope that a PF of Angel is already in some stage of production and they will release him with "cut our losses" edition of 500.
 
Protozaius said:
One can only hope that a PF of Angel is already in some stage of production and they will release him with "cut our losses" edition of 500.

If they give me Angel I'll be gratefull for eternity. If they stopped there, I'd be satisfied, but I need just Angel to complete the line and tie it up, if thats what they were to do. And give it a ripper exclusive too please.:lol
 
I refuse to buy into all the "Doom & Gloom" that's going on here. In the past few months Sideshow has announced several 12" figures and a PF yet it seems most people here are singing a funeral dirge for the Buffy and Angel line. You just cannot compare Buffy/Angel to the large runs Star Wars, Marvel and Lord of the Rings have. I'm tempted to think some of the doom and gloomers are simply acting so negative in order to get someone from Sideshow to come on and say "it's not over folks".
 
Every now and then someone like ffl1940 comes and says what I need to read. I'm glad someone takes me out of the gloom that is bathing this board lately (since I registered btw), I know I may be a little too naive but I believe there are still some good things around the corner for us...:rolleyes:
 
I thing Sideshow should just make an Angel in his classic leather jacket.Then finish the line,at least you have the two leads of the shows plus another fan favourite.

If they were to make another I would say make another Buffy:D
 
ffl1940 said:
You just cannot compare Buffy/Angel to the large runs Star Wars, Marvel and Lord of the Rings have.
I agree, but, I suspect a 1000-1500 ES is what any PF from any license needs to reach in order for it to justify the resources required to produce it.

Likewise, Cordelia. I think 1500 pieces is a good number for that character at this point in time but, it's not really very substantial for an average 12" figure.

Again, you're right that Buffy can't pull-in the numbers like Star Mars and Marvel, but that's precisely the problem the line is facing. I may be wrong in my assessment, but it doesn't seem prudent to continue to allocate dollars and talent to produce a product that is only going to be marginally profitable, when those same resources can be channeled toward more lucrative licenses.

wvb.jpg
 
FrankenFan said:
I agree, but, I suspect a 1000-1500 ES is what any PF from any license needs to reach in order for it to justify the resources required to produce it.

Likewise, Cordelia. I think 1500 pieces is a good number for that character at this point in time but, it's not really very substantial for an average 12" figure.

Again, you're right that Buffy can't pull-in the numbers like Star Mars and Marvel, but that's precisely the problem the line is facing. I may be wrong in my assessment, but it doesn't seem prudent to continue to allocate dollars and talent to produce a product that is only going to be marginally profitable, when those same resources can be channeled toward more lucrative licenses.
I agree with your assessment. Putting time and money into a line that may or may not sell at most 500-1500 figures seems rather foolish when they can channel those same resources into Star Wars, LOTR or Marvel and stand a much better chance of turning a bigger profit. Look at POTA, look at X-Files, lines that don't move sufficient product don't last long. I hate to be a negative nelly, but I think SSC has moved on to greener pastures.
 
You know, I've said that I will not be collecting the Buffy/Angel PF line for space/economic reasons, but I may just have to eat those words if they make a Dark Willow PF. If it looked good, that is one PF that I would HAVE to have!!! :chew
 
BTW, the Buffy PF, it was announced in the newest newsletter, has sold out. That's 800 that have found a buyer. There are many PFs that have larger runs but that haven't sold out.

Certainly Sideshow would rather make sell out of 2000 Buffy PFs, but I also think they'd rather get a presale number, decide on 800, make and sell 800 and move on rather than make 1000 Napoleons and years later still have them sitting in the warehouse. (There are costs to keeping things in storage), or, for that matter, 1500 Van Helsings and other examples of more highly produced PFs that still have unsold product (i.e. Sideshow's money) sitting in the warehouse.
 
Feels great to know Im one of those 800:chew

Wish they'd give us an update on her though. Even new pictures...anything!:D
 
ffl1940 said:
I refuse to buy into all the "Doom & Gloom" that's going on here. In the past few months Sideshow has announced several 12" figures and a PF yet it seems most people here are singing a funeral dirge for the Buffy and Angel line. You just cannot compare Buffy/Angel to the large runs Star Wars, Marvel and Lord of the Rings have. I'm tempted to think some of the doom and gloomers are simply acting so negative in order to get someone from Sideshow to come on and say "it's not over folks".

Yep. The only people who know the true status of the two Buffy lines are Sideshow employees.
 
An Angel PFseems like a sure thing. with "game face" exclusive. Then we have the main three.
If there is a 4th I would like it to be Illyria, since the costume could be troublesome in 12". I woldn't buy a Gentleman. I have enough of those.
 
JoeSweden said:
An Angel PFseems like a sure thing. with "game face" exclusive. Then we have the main three.
If there is a 4th I would like it to be Illyria, since the costume could be troublesome in 12". I woldn't buy a Gentleman. I have enough of those.

I would think Sideshow could use the exact same procedure that Medicom used on their Evangelion female figures (that Sideshow sells) to make a bodysuit that would work for an Illyria in 1/6th scale. Yeah, those Medicom figures are expensive, but all Medicom stuff is way overpriced like that, even stuff that uses more standard 12" bodies. I'm sure Sideshow could make them for less.
 
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