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View Full Version : Why Hot Toys taking so long to sell out?



pins79
03-13-2012, 08:27 PM
Hi,

I'm pretty new to this forum and to Hot Toys collecting, but I've been told that in the past, Hot Toys would sell out rather fast. In fact, it wouldn't be unheard of for Hot Toys figures to sell out during preorder stage. Now, even highly regarded figures appear to be staying in stock longer. Is this because of higher prices these days? Perhaps a down economy? Or is it related to Hot Toys manufacturing more figures such that supply exceeds demand?

TheObsoleteMan
03-13-2012, 08:32 PM
Hi,

I'm pretty new to this forum and to Hot Toys collecting, but I've been told that in the past, Hot Toys would sell out rather fast. In fact, it wouldn't be unheard of for Hot Toys figures to sell out during preorder stage. Now, even highly regarded figures appear to be staying in stock longer. Is this because of higher prices these days? Perhaps a down economy? Or is it related to Hot Toys manufacturing more figures such that supply exceeds demand?

Yes, and yes.

Lejuan
03-13-2012, 08:33 PM
All of those. The better figures will sell out eventually. I think they made a million Supermans, but Spiderman is becoming hard to come by - last time I checked my favourite sellers the figure was well sold out, and the release date wasn't that long ago.

hunnipot85
03-13-2012, 08:33 PM
For me the price has kept me away mostly. Plus it's not hard to find Hot Toys figures once they release for lower than retail.

You used to be able to sell some for a pretty good profit if need be, but I think they upped their quantity and the demand may not be there. I guess we'll see what the second hand market looks like in a couple of mos..

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-13-2012, 08:41 PM
Hi,

I'm pretty new to this forum and to Hot Toys collecting, but I've been told that in the past, Hot Toys would sell out rather fast. In fact, it wouldn't be unheard of for Hot Toys figures to sell out during preorder stage. Now, even highly regarded figures appear to be staying in stock longer. Is this because of higher prices these days? Perhaps a down economy? Or is it related to Hot Toys manufacturing more figures such that supply exceeds demand?

Used to be they'd all sell out months before they released, some even a few days after going up for order.

In my opinion they are doing some or all of the following:


Releasing more figures per year than before which divides their customers into choosing between figures rather than ordering both
Increasing the quantities of their figures production
Overproducing from particular licenses (and underproducing from others)
Undermining their collectability with reissues and remakes
Losing customers through poor Quality Control, delays or lack of variety
increasing prices for even 'basic' level figures

karamazov80
03-13-2012, 09:10 PM
My guess is this is mostly due to the fact that they are producing these out the wazoo nowadays. I don't think demand has gone down.

Wor-Gar
03-13-2012, 09:16 PM
If you're asking in particular in reference to Indy, Superman, Sparrow, Batman or Joker.... there will be plenty around for years. Very large production runs. Probably less so for Indy, his is more a demand issue. But they made tons and tons and tons of Supes. Expect the same from 1989 Batman.

SwedishHeat
03-13-2012, 09:20 PM
Is this because of higher prices these days? Perhaps a down economy? Or is it related to Hot Toys manufacturing more figures such that supply exceeds demand?

Supply that far outstrips demand is what's hurting them now.

Though 'hurting' them is a relative term. I don't think they're hurting right now. I think Sideshow and the HT distributors are hurting, they're sitting on a bunch of stock. I don't know how the HT supply chain works, I doubt HT has a warehouse filled with Indiana Jones, Superman and Jack Sparrow right now. I'd imagine the bulk of the inventory is with SS right now. Considering how they've revamped FLEXpay and the free shipping and all those other perks, I think SS is freaking out. I think HT is just cranking out product as fast as they can, meanwhile the retailers and such are trying to soak it up, but the consumers just aren't buying.

They'd sell out of Superman at $400 if they only made 2000. But at 8,000 or 10,000 or whatever ridiculous amount they made, he's sitting. This new $200 Snake Eyes will be a good test to see how many figures will actually sell at $200. We haven't had any $200 figures yet with published edition sizes, so we shall see how well Sideshow thinks it will sell, and then we can base HT's edition sizes off that. I'm really interested to see what the edition size on Boba Fett ends up being. At 2,000 EX, the Reg is probably 6,000 and compare that to IG-88 at 750 EX and 2500 Reg, that's a huge difference.

pins79
03-13-2012, 09:29 PM
I've seen very few Hot Toys figures have production numbers. In fact, about the only one I can think of would be the DX Bruce Lee Exclusive, which supposedly had a run of 750 as per the sideshow website. Well, there were also the Demon Bats/Scarecrow and Beat it MJ which supposedly were limited in production size.

At first I started buying all the Hot Toys I could get my hands on, but with all these remakes and lack of production size, it has steered the collector part of me away a little. Now I'm only focusing on select Hot Toys figures, and redirecting my attention to Sideshow statues.

karamazov80
03-13-2012, 09:34 PM
Well, there were also the Demon Bats/Scarecrow and Beat it MJ which supposedly were limited in production size.
I believe those were released at 4,000 a piece. And that's HT's idea of a limited exclusive nowadays. There were some other exclusives with supposed edition sizes, though I have no idea how accurate they are. Seems like they changed their mind on the Sarah Connor/T-1000 exclusive after it was late for being released in time for the cons, and jacked up the size.

Kuzeh
03-13-2012, 09:41 PM
The first Batman Begins and Superman Returns figures were limited @ 1000 and numbered...
I'm oretty sure the HT Thriller MJ was closer to 10k or so...
Probably the same with Supes methinks...

EVILFACE
03-13-2012, 09:42 PM
Why does it matter how long they take to sell out?

Firebird
03-13-2012, 09:45 PM
Hi,

I'm pretty new to this forum and to Hot Toys collecting, but I've been told that in the past, Hot Toys would sell out rather fast. In fact, it wouldn't be unheard of for Hot Toys figures to sell out during preorder stage. Now, even highly regarded figures appear to be staying in stock longer. Is this because of higher prices these days? Perhaps a down economy? Or is it related to Hot Toys manufacturing more figures such that supply exceeds demand?

It's most likely a number of things. I think it is due to the higher prices, the way the economy is right now and there is more supply of each figure available. Maybe to keep the ebay prices down, so alot more new collectors can still purchase these figures at a reasonable cost. HT is releasing alot of figures as well and that may have something to do with it too.

The good thing about it is that you have some time to think about it; if you want the figure bad enough, before ordering. I would just collect the figures you really want and just have fun with this hobby.

Blade3327
03-13-2012, 09:48 PM
My guess is this is mostly due to the fact that they are producing these out the wazoo nowadays. I don't think demand has gone down.

My thoughts, too. Demand's not an issue when they're manufacturing the figures of our dreams these days.

gagaliya
03-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Why Hot Toys taking so long to sell out?

because they release massive amount, and many people stopped collecting them in the last year or so due to their lack of brand integrity.

kl241
03-13-2012, 10:00 PM
A better question to ask would be: Why is it taking Hot Toys so damn long to ship their products out?

steven.giunta
03-13-2012, 10:11 PM
Also take iron man as an example.the mark iii sold out faster cause at that point no one had an iron man in there collection,by the time the mark vi was released people may have had 1 or 2 iron man figures so they pass on a third.not to mention if you make a 1000 mark iii s and they sel out fast,your gonna make 2000 mark iv s and if they sell out 3000 mark v s and so on .

The Skull
03-13-2012, 10:14 PM
Its something I've noticed as well, I just ordered the shadow predator comic con exclusive from sideshow today. I would have thought this would have been long sold out but here it is how many months later still in-stock. Sideshow exclusives used to be only available at sideshow but now you can find this guy at bbts, cotsworld collectable, and so on. So they must have a bunch of them for sideshow to send them out to other retailers.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-13-2012, 10:14 PM
because they release massive amount, and many people stopped collecting them in the last year or so due to their lack of brand integrity.

Thats kinda true. They're not exactly working to keep customers happy...


Buy a non-superhero figure and there's a 70/30 chance it'll be delayed.
Buy a figure from a new franchise and you're pretty much guaranteed not to get anymore than two of the main line-up.
Buy a rubber figure and it's pretty much guaranteed to have quality problems.
Buy a Batman or similiar figure and you're pretty much guaranteed that it will be an obsolete version as they'll remake it.
Buy a Figure with defects and you're guaranteed hot toys won't care, (Captain America Wonky 'A' & star)
Want official updates on projects or any communication other than directions to their store and you're guaranteed not to get them



A better question to ask would be: Why is it taking Hot Toys so damn long to ship their products out?

:goodpost:

My entire order list was due last year and are mostly all due in May they'll probably be delayed again :(

Thing is there are Sideshow and 3A and Enterbay pieces i want but i choose to order from Hot Toys. Anymore delays and i'm calling it quits and going to those companies.



Also take iron man as an example.the mark iii sold out faster cause at that point no one had an iron man in there collection,by the time the mark vi was released people may have had 1 or 2 iron man figures so they pass on a third.not to mention if you make a 1000 mark iii s and they sel out fast,your gonna make 2000 mark iv s and if they sell out 3000 mark v s and so on .

There'll be collectors like me who have their Iron Man and don't want anymore and there'll be those who sell of their figures to buy newer version which is pretty sad IMO as those great figures will all eventually end up languishing in boxes in a garage unable to be sold, those people aren't really "collectors" IMO

senbi575
03-13-2012, 10:15 PM
Supply that far outstrips demand is what's hurting them now.

Though 'hurting' them is a relative term. I don't think they're hurting right now. I think Sideshow and the HT distributors are hurting, they're sitting on a bunch of stock. I don't know how the HT supply chain works, I doubt HT has a warehouse filled with Indiana Jones, Superman and Jack Sparrow right now. I'd imagine the bulk of the inventory is with SS right now. Considering how they've revamped FLEXpay and the free shipping and all those other perks, I think SS is freaking out. I think HT is just cranking out product as fast as they can, meanwhile the retailers and such are trying to soak it up, but the consumers just aren't buying.

They'd sell out of Superman at $400 if they only made 2000. But at 8,000 or 10,000 or whatever ridiculous amount they made, he's sitting. This new $200 Snake Eyes will be a good test to see how many figures will actually sell at $200. We haven't had any $200 figures yet with published edition sizes, so we shall see how well Sideshow thinks it will sell, and then we can base HT's edition sizes off that. I'm really interested to see what the edition size on Boba Fett ends up being. At 2,000 EX, the Reg is probably 6,000 and compare that to IG-88 at 750 EX and 2500 Reg, that's a huge difference.

It will be interesting how this shakes out. I have to think the excess inventory is putting delays on Hot Toys production schedule. I am sure SS is adjusting their ordering and maybe even not carrying Hot Toys inventory with the way they are currently rotting on the shelves. Wait until retailers start liquidating their stock or doing mass returns to Hot Toys, this could really hurt 1/6 collecting.

hunnipot85
03-13-2012, 10:36 PM
I'm waiting for you to stop collecting HT (Nova) :lol

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-13-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm waiting for you to stop collecting HT (Nova) :rolleyes:

Almost there, there's a ton of figures i've been waiting for which they won't bother to make, and only three left on order which if delayed again will become one cos i've already paid for it :lol

gagaliya
03-13-2012, 11:45 PM
there'll be those who sell of their figures to buy newer version which is pretty sad IMO as those great figures will all eventually end up languishing in boxes in a garage unable to be sold, those people aren't really "collectors" IMO

I have said this many times in the past, you cannot COLLECT those plastic figures. They do not retain their "collectibility" as they are heavily dependent on technology and quickly becomes obsolete when new versions come out. Unlike a good hand painted polystone statues, which will always retain its value over time.

Whatever plastic figure that looks so awesome right now, will look like crap 5 years from now. Just check those 12" figures from a few years ago, they look dated compared to the new ones and continue to lose their value. Some collectors are finally realizing this..

We are still riding the tailwind of HT's past popularity ( aka bubble), many still falsely believe those figures will worth something or even increase in value over time.

Add all of this to HT's continued self-destruction of their own brand by remaking the same characters and go as far as re-release the exact same figures. There is no brand integrity or trust left. There will always be some people who buy those "toys" because they look cool and it's their favorite character. But in general, the brand lost its credibility as a highend collectible item.

Just look at the for sale section nowdays, for every thread selling sideshow statue there are 10 trying to dump HT crap. And all the new figures remain unsold & rarely go up in value, only down.

Mesa
03-13-2012, 11:51 PM
Used to be they'd all sell out months before they released, some even a few days after going up for order.

In my opinion they are doing some or all of the following:


Releasing more figures per year than before which divides their customers into choosing between figures rather than ordering both
Increasing the quantities of their figures production
Overproducing from particular licenses (and underproducing from others)
Undermining their collectability with reissues and remakes
Losing customers through poor Quality Control, delays or lack of variety
increasing prices for even 'basic' level figures


Brilliant post.

vareika
03-14-2012, 12:54 AM
Just to add to the list of reasons:

The fact that everyone and his grandmother are collecting HT figures, has caused that rare, exclusive feeling to diminish. No one here can deny that the "rare and exclusiveness" of Hot Toys (at least back in the day when $130 for a "figure" was an outrage and we were not used to the same level of "quality" in a 1/6 figure) had some impact on your feeling towards this particular high-end collectible hobby. Even if that impact is only 1% of the reason you collect.

choopie
03-14-2012, 06:16 AM
The older figures, like the Alien pieces (Hicks, for ex.) can probably still demand a premium. That was when HT was just coming on to the scene and few folks knew who HT was much less coughed up the $150 for a figure at the time.

As soon as a company becomes mainstream and everyone wants what they are producing, then they start raising prices, acquiring more licenses then they can handle and pumping out more product. The result is oversaturation and growing lack of interest from collectors.

Every company has its day in the sun and every company falls off that pedestal.

dvdwyn
03-14-2012, 06:39 AM
I have said this many times in the past, you cannot COLLECT those plastic figures. They do not retain their "collectibility" as they are heavily dependent on technology and quickly becomes obsolete when new versions come out. Unlike a good hand painted polystone statues, which will always retain its value over time.

Whatever plastic figure that looks so awesome right now, will look like crap 5 years from now. Just check those 12" figures from a few years ago, they look dated compared to the new ones and continue to lose their value. Some collectors are finally realizing this..

We are still riding the tailwind of HT's past popularity ( aka bubble), many still falsely believe those figures will worth something or even increase in value over time.

Add all of this to HT's continued self-destruction of their own brand by remaking the same characters and go as far as re-release the exact same figures. There is no brand integrity or trust left. There will always be some people who buy those "toys" because they look cool and it's their favorite character. But in general, the brand lost its credibility as a highend collectible item.

Just look at the for sale section nowdays, for every thread selling sideshow statue there are 10 trying to dump HT crap. And all the new figures remain unsold & rarely go up in value, only down.

:goodpost::exactly::yess::hi5:

dino76m
03-14-2012, 07:50 AM
:goodpost::exactly::yess::hi5:

well, more for me it actually a good thing, just picked up a second superman reevs at a bargain with free shipping, we shouldnt realy complain, only those who collect as investment will cry, i like to keep one as mint and one to play with,,eventually they will sell out as for one collector leaving there will be 2 joining, problem is everyones cpncerned about investment value , if it was so predictable then again these hobby would be full of scalpers just like we see at least a 100 of 500 sideshow exclusives turning up on ebay for 3 times the price..the unpredictability keeps out the scalpers which is generally good for the hobby and collectors like me who like to see the product in hand before purchasing

nexus
03-14-2012, 09:04 AM
I think Hot Toys is a victim of its own rapid success and needs a little time to find its footing.
No doubt they are doing higher production runs of some figures which is taking longer to sell out. They are also exhausting some of their licenses and characters with minor resculpts and/or repaints, when instead they would likely be more successful going further into the catalog-- i.e. other P.O.T.C., Batman, and Iron Man movies and/or characters. Barbossa, Elizabeth Swann in gown or pirate wear from CotBP, Skeleton Jack, Angelica, Blackbeard, Clooney Batman, O'Donnel Robin, Mr. Freeze, Hammer Drones, TX Terminatrix, Endo, Dillon, Mac, Blaine, Isabelle, heck even Harrigan.
Licenses and characters that never got off the ground or vanish into the ether -- Green Lantern, X-Men, Matrix
Some characters could do with a LIMITED reissue or improved versions, such as Rocky, Apollo, Clubber and Drago with better headsculpts and fight damaged change-o heads. And I would like to get a Davey Jones but not for a grand. While reissues might tick off a few folks who think they're sitting on a gold mine, it does make sense to enfranchise collectors who might have been a year or two late to the game.
Nevertheless, the frustration of collectors shows just how popular the line is becoming, so I'm hoping they continue to be successful because that will lead to more great HT pieces.

a-dev
03-14-2012, 06:15 PM
Just look at the for sale section nowdays, for every thread selling sideshow statue there are 10 trying to dump HT crap. And all the new figures remain unsold & rarely go up in value, only down.

To be fair a lot of those people are probably selling HT to buy more HT...like me for a while there. HT figures are pretty easy and convenient to sell compared to other stuff so thats probably another reason.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-14-2012, 06:25 PM
To be fair a lot of those people are probably selling HT to buy more HT...like me for a while there. HT figures are pretty easy and convenient to sell compared to other stuff so thats probably another reason.

Such a waste that lot of their old Batmans Iron Mans and Predators that were once their owners proud collectible are considered old, poor and outdated and have ended up hanging about on eBay, packed up in boxes in the backs of cupboards rather than being displayed proudly as all collectibles should.

SAB
03-14-2012, 06:31 PM
Such a waste that lot of their old Batmans Iron Mans and Predators that were once their owners proud collectible are considered old, poor and outdated and have ended up hanging about on eBay, packed up in boxes in the backs of cupboards rather than being displayed proudly as all collectibles should.

:woo:woo:woo

BlitzOUT
03-14-2012, 09:52 PM
It's funny that I have reached a point where my thinking is that I'll wait until 89 Joker reaches the gift card eligible list before I pick him up.

Collector47
03-15-2012, 07:14 AM
I have said this many times in the past, you cannot COLLECT those plastic figures. They do not retain their "collectibility" as they are heavily dependent on technology and quickly becomes obsolete when new versions come out. Unlike a good hand painted polystone statues, which will always retain its value over time.

Whatever plastic figure that looks so awesome right now, will look like crap 5 years from now. Just check those 12" figures from a few years ago, they look dated compared to the new ones and continue to lose their value. Some collectors are finally realizing this..

We are still riding the tailwind of HT's past popularity ( aka bubble), many still falsely believe those figures will worth something or even increase in value over time.

Add all of this to HT's continued self-destruction of their own brand by remaking the same characters and go as far as re-release the exact same figures. There is no brand integrity or trust left. There will always be some people who buy those "toys" because they look cool and it's their favorite character. But in general, the brand lost its credibility as a highend collectible item.

Just look at the for sale section nowdays, for every thread selling sideshow statue there are 10 trying to dump HT crap. And all the new figures remain unsold & rarely go up in value, only down.

I rarely see older Hot Toys figures sold under retail. A quick search on Ebay shows high prices on figures like Rocky and Rambo. And those have more of the old school sculpts. What is a good example of a figure that is sold under retail value? And where are you seeing that? I've been collecting now for about five years, so I'm still very new to the market. What baffles me is how all these people on Ebay immediately start parting out these figures while their still brand new. Who has the money to do that? And do you really get a return on your investment for that? Just seems like a pain to make a few extra bucks. I enjoy collecting them. Not trying to make a business out of it.

CollectorNC
03-15-2012, 07:24 AM
I wonder if HT's can even be considered a true collectible these days with such mass production.

galactiboy
03-15-2012, 07:33 AM
My guess is HT is trying to find the "sweet spot" when it comes to edition size. And clearly the secondary market would suggest they were underproducing the earlier figures... so now they are likely overcorrecting and will eventually settle on a more realistic number.

Sideshow seemed to do a similar thing with the Star Wars license and a few years later the ES seem to be selling out and holding a healthy secondary market value.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-15-2012, 07:36 AM
What baffles me is how all these people on Ebay immediately start parting out these figures while their still brand new. Who has the money to do that?

it looks like over the last few years that quite a few eBayers have popped to almost exclusively deal in parting out or reselling hot toys. :dunno

CollectorNC
03-15-2012, 08:01 AM
I guess for 1/6, SSC's is better from a collectible standpoint. Boba Fett sold out, but Batman 1989 HT likely never will until everyone has one, which is great, but it's no different than buying a monthly comic book that everyone can buy and is not special in collectible terms.

Avenger
03-15-2012, 08:28 AM
It makes it easier for me to buy HT figures that I normally wouldn't, such as Superman (not a big superman fan sadly, but I am a fan of what they did), when the value of the figure holds up. I liked the sculpt, and enjoy having the figure. However, when the production is outrunning demand to the point where I will see my figure value go down, I'm not nearly as likely to buy figures I'm on the bubble on.

I have limited display space, and should something come out that I really want, some of these figures may have to get sold. If I'm losing money each time this happens, it starts to be better to not buy the figures to begin with, unless I absolutely love them. With the cost of these, I can't help but NOT see HT stuff as disposable product, where you pay for the use of it. It needs to hold some level of value to justify the cost IMO.

CollectorNC
03-15-2012, 09:37 AM
My wife already thought I was nuts paying 300+ for 2 foot tall statues and now that I'm paying 300 for a foot tall "doll" she knows I am insane. I just hope the 2 foot doll isn't only worth 150 in coming years....

SnakeDoctor
03-15-2012, 11:49 AM
Its a supply/demand thing. HT is producing more figures for each release ... and they're also producing more releases. There was a time when there were a few major releases a year, and everybody was waiting on the same thing.

These days, you have to choose between Batman Begins Wayne, Batman 89, Joker 89, Iron Man, Superman, Jack Sparrow, Captain America, Indiana Jones, etc., etc., etc. all within a few months. They're cannibalizing their own market a bit -- competing against themselves ... forcing collectors to choose between one HT figure and another HT figure rather than chooing between a HT figure and a SS figure.

SnakeDoc

CollectorNC
03-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Its a supply/demand thing. HT is producing more figures for each release ... and they're also producing more releases. There was a time when there were a few major releases a year, and everybody was waiting on the same thing.

These days, you have to choose between Batman Begins Wayne, Batman 89, Joker 89, Iron Man, Superman, Jack Sparrow, Captain America, Indiana Jones, etc., etc., etc. all within a few months. They're cannibalizing their own market a bit -- competing against themselves ... forcing collectors to choose between one HT figure and another HT figure rather than chooing between a HT figure and a SS figure.

SnakeDoc

:goodpost:

Collector47
03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
^^^ I agree. Well said.

gagaliya
03-15-2012, 12:24 PM
I rarely see older Hot Toys figures sold under retail. A quick search on Ebay shows high prices on figures like Rocky and Rambo. And those have more of the old school sculpts. What is a good example of a figure that is sold under retail value? And where are you seeing that?

They are everywhere. Only some of the old figures retained their value because they were limited/rare & never re-made, so it holds some desirability to the ht collectors. Look at classic predator, once the new one came out, the old one couldnt even be unloaded at retail. And some of the newer releases like iron man v, tracker pred, falconer pred, etc.. all selling at a discount. Even the batman is now losing their value as hot toys has turned their attention to this figure with new iterations over and over just like they did to ironman/predator until this character loses all collectibility factor.

It's a classic case of looking under your feet and not the forest. They will gain higher profit short term but continue to destroy their brand in the long run as a highend collectible maker and eventually lose more. What they should have done is limit each release to 1000-2000 like sideshow, and let it sellout to keep the fans hooked, dont re-release the same figure ever - it destroys trust (release newer version with sigificant improvement is ok), and most of all STOP making the **** predator 100 times.

I have started to collect squadt figures, even though they are plastic figures like ht, those guys got the model correct, and I love it when i manage to get them.

spindrift
03-15-2012, 03:00 PM
Hi,

I'm pretty new to this forum and to Hot Toys collecting, but I've been told that in the past, Hot Toys would sell out rather fast. In fact, it wouldn't be unheard of for Hot Toys figures to sell out during preorder stage. Now, even highly regarded figures appear to be staying in stock longer. Is this because of higher prices these days? Perhaps a down economy? Or is it related to Hot Toys manufacturing more figures such that supply exceeds demand?

You hit it on the head in all three statements!!!!!!!!!!!:yess:

BuddyGus
03-15-2012, 03:03 PM
You said it.

Price.

Economy.

Edition size.

The first two are directly connected.

a-dev
03-15-2012, 03:28 PM
What they should have done is limit each release to 1000-2000 like sideshow, and let it sellout to keep the fans hooked, dont re-release the same figure ever - it destroys trust (release newer version with sigificant improvement is ok)

Well theres exceptions to that. Such as the Tumbler - owners of the original like me breathed a sigh of relief when it turned out to be a straight rerelease. Releasing it with improvements when the old one really isn't that old would have felt like a punch in the stomach to those who supported HT by buying it in the first place.

NCC-1701 no bloody ABCorD
03-15-2012, 03:35 PM
I know it's not a HT, but I was looking at SSC's CA - James 'Bucky' Barnes Premium Format Figure still in stock. I think it's 1/4 scale? It looks like a very nice statue/figure. I'm surprised it hasn't sold out yet considering pre-orders commenced on Sept. of 2010! The edition size isn't that big at 1,000. Does anyone know something about this PF figure that I should know about? Is there a problem with it, maybe? Why would it not be sold out? :dunno

Sweet Rabbit
03-15-2012, 03:47 PM
I know it's not a HT, but I was looking at SSC's CA - James 'Bucky' Barnes Premium Format Figure still in stock. I think it's 1/4 scale? It looks like a very nice statue/figure. I'm surprised it hasn't sold out yet considering pre-orders commenced on Sept. of 2010! The edition size isn't that big at 1,000. Does anyone know something about this PF figure that I should know about? Is there a problem with it, maybe? Why would it not be sold out? :dunno

it's a great statue, and I own one, but it's not steve rogers

gagaliya
03-15-2012, 03:50 PM
I know it's not a HT, but I was looking at SSC's CA - James 'Bucky' Barnes Premium Format Figure still in stock. I think it's 1/4 scale? It looks like a very nice statue/figure. I'm surprised it hasn't sold out yet considering pre-orders commenced on Sept. of 2010! The edition size isn't that big at 1,000. Does anyone know something about this PF figure that I should know about? Is there a problem with it, maybe? Why would it not be sold out? :dunno

who on earth will purchase this ghey looking capt, when there is the much better movie version coming out & the original grail.

gagaliya
03-15-2012, 03:54 PM
Well theres exceptions to that. Such as the Tumbler - owners of the original like me breathed a sigh of relief when it turned out to be a straight rerelease. Releasing it with improvements when the old one really isn't that old would have felt like a punch in the stomach to those who supported HT by buying it in the first place.

That's the problem with plastic figures in general. For sideshow statues, they can release different versions of the same character with very little effect of overlapping & value destruction of the old one.

But with plastic figures, as soon as you release a new better one, most people dont want the old one anymore and it becomes quite worthless as time goes by. With knowledge of this fact, most collectors like you just said, are hoping HT dont release a newer version (even if it's a much better version) of the same character, as to not invalidate their own collection. And are glad ht are instead re-releasing a soldout limited edition figure..think about how sad that is.

As i said before, this is no way to collect, and not sustainable long term as a highend collectible hobby. Buying them as toys to play with are fine...

NCC-1701 no bloody ABCorD
03-15-2012, 04:10 PM
who on earth will purchase this ghey looking capt, when there is the much better movie version coming out & the original grail.

Which ones are you referring to? Can you please provide link(s).

Grosby
03-15-2012, 04:50 PM
But with plastic figures, as soon as you release a new one, most people dont want the old one anymore and it becomes quite worthless as time goes by. Without knowledge of this fact, most collectibles like you just said are hoping HT dont release a newer version (even if it's a much better version) of the same character, as to not invalidate their own collection.

Yeah. It seems to me that it comes down to the fact that people aren't buying a 'Hot Toys figure,' they're buying a representation of a character they like (Predator, say). When a better version comes along, it doesn't have to actually be HT for it to de-value the HT version (which is something that doesn't seem to occur to a lot of people here), it just has to be a superior version of the character, that's absolutely all it comes down to. Enterbay could make a new Predator, Blitzway, anyone. It doesn't matter who makes it, all that matters is that it's superior, the effect is the same.

If people were out there buying a figure in large part because it was 'Hot Toys,' because they collect 'Hot Toys' in the same way people collect MEGO, then a new version of Predator or whatever wouldn't have the same drastic de-valuing effect. There would be an interest in originals, the first version, the simple sculpt, its part in history, etc, etc.

The great problem, it seems to me, is some people try to act like they are collecting 'Hot Toys' because it's 'Hot Toys.' They talk about them as 'collectibles,' and like they appreciate them on some level more than just 'this is the best looking 1/6 Predator out there,' but that's absolutely a lie for the vast majority out there. 99% of people have no legitimate interest in HT as an actual 'collectible,' they just like to say they do. If they had honest interest in 'HT' as a collectible, then given the opportunity today they might honestly consider buying one of the first RoboCop figures over the new RoboCop figure HT is making. But no, 99.9% of HT buyers have no interest in that. They're only interested in it as a 'collectible' when they already own the old version and want to complain about a new version "de-valuing" it as a 'collectible.' What they're really talking about then though, is that they want the better-looking version, their irritation is that something better is out there and that it inconveniences them to have to update. That this persons wants to update though, that is actually the main problem to Hot Toys being a lasting 'collectible'. The fault isn't with Hot Toys, the fault is with people buying who somehow think they can buy something that is not only a 'collectible 1/6 figure' but is also the best looking version of the character available until the end of time.

With extremely few exceptions, the person with a shelf full of Hot Toys figure is purely motivated by what is the best looking version available, that's what they'll go for every time, that's all that motivates them. And that alone, or in large part, is what causes trouble for HT figures as lasting 'collectibles,' I'd say.

That's a long and rambling post, probably nonsensical in good part, I didn't mean to write so much, but that's basically my view on things, that's my thinking.

Solidus
03-15-2012, 06:15 PM
I wonder if HT's can even be considered a true collectible these days with such mass production.

Yeah, it's really strange that Hot Toys figures that were released last year are still on sale at Sideshow :monkey1.

As a collector, I think I'm done with Hot Toys. I do have the two Batman 89 figures on pre-order, but those might be the very last Hot Toys figures that I'll ever purchase. The last time I collected mass-produced figures was in high school, when I used to buy Transformers from Wal-Mart and Target. I have zero interest in doing something like that again, let alone, with more expensive figures.

Deckard
03-15-2012, 06:29 PM
The market is flooded with licenses, and differant manufactures, Enterbay VS Hot Toys, they can't even keep up with themselves and the licenses they aquire, and yet there is no competitive pricing anywhere.

The prices for them just continue to skyrocket one release after another with little indication of quality increase. Just the 7 man Avenger team from one single movie will now cost you at least $2100. Probably much more with Hulk's size factored in. Even HT and EB now realise this has gone as far as you can with these prices and are moving on to 1/4 scale.

My guess is we'll see some $5-600 PF figures, which will raise to around $800 by next year as they learn more about that scale and by that time most people will have been priced out of the hobby and smaller scale, possibly even 7 inch figures will make a comeback. They've already started with Neca upping their game.

COSMOSTARX
03-15-2012, 06:36 PM
Because apparently Hot Toys isn't the only one making things nowadays.

Darkseed
03-15-2012, 06:47 PM
SS, Medicom are charging elite level prices nowadays, IMO they are still far away in terms of overall presentation. The only "competition" is EB and they are too small to really "make waves."

Why should HT worry about delays, sales etc they have no one pressuring them to do better. That said, I am more curious about the delays in releases and announcements then not selling out. Not selling out is rather self explanatory.

NCC-1701 no bloody ABCorD
03-16-2012, 12:34 AM
who on earth will purchase this ghey looking capt, when there is the much better movie version coming out & the original grail.

If by "orig. grail" you mean the one below that costs over $1.3K, that there would be the reason—I would never buy any statue/PF figure that's over about $400. The new movie PF might be a consideration for me. But I still don't understand why the grey Bucky hadn't sold out a year ago... before the movie. I think it looks awesome; great pose, too.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-16-2012, 12:48 AM
Look at classic predator, once the new one came out, the old one couldnt even be unloaded at retail. And some of the newer releases like iron man v, tracker pred, falconer pred, etc.. all selling at a discount. Even the batman is now losing their value as hot toys has turned their attention to this figure with new iterations over and over just like they did to ironman/predator until this character loses all collectibility factor.

:exactly: :exactly:


They will gain higher profit short term but continue to destroy their brand in the long run as a highend collectible maker and eventually lose more, dont re-release the same figure ever - it destroys trust (release newer version with sigificant improvement is you musy), and most of all STOP making the **** characters 100 times.

:goodpost:

They are undermining their own collectibility and purpose of their brand to gain a fast profit at the expense of long term customer loyalty and patronage.


I have started to collect squadt figures, even though they are plastic figures like ht, those guys got the model correct, and I love it when i manage to get them.

I've started on ThreeA


That's the problem with plastic figures in general. For sideshow statues, they can release different versions of the same character with very little effect of overlapping & value destruction of the old one...

True, too many upgrade their figures with new versions and remakes, upgrading is something you do with technology not collectibles IMHO it's ruining the hobby & brand.


As a collector, I think I'm done with Hot Toys. I do have the two Batman 89 figures on pre-order, but those might be the very last Hot Toys figures that I'll ever purchase.

My order list continues to drop or stay the same, Hot Toys just aren't offering enough variety for me, i've got most of the characters they are doing from previous versions of the figures and want new characters from new projects, which they continue to delay producing. :dunno

BrooklynWolf X
03-16-2012, 02:27 AM
I don't understand why people look at these figures as an investment. The most someone will make off of these toys is $400. In the end can that pay for your mortgage? Can it feed your family for an entire year? No, that's what jobs are for. These are high end collectibles, for YOUR hot toys COLLECTION....not high end sell it off years later to make a few extra bucks.

If you own a figure where ht made or is making a 2.0 of, why should it devalue the original? If you were a true fan of the character and ht, you'd proudly keep it in your collection. I've seen many pics where collectors have kept every iteration of a certain character and have not complained once. Why didn't they complain? Because they have a passion for the hobby and it's their fav character.

I honestly dont think HT are hurt or are hurting the collectible industry at all. In fact, Whoever is claiming that, where are your facts? Can you show us charts? Just because you can still obtain a toy, that suggests that the industry and the company are hurt?

The way I see it, They're allowing their brand to reach further out and want those that had hard times getting that figure can now get one without resorting to scalpers. Who hasn't been there before? Wanting to buy a figure, only to be late to the party, resorting to spending hundreds more through eBay, all the while cursing that seller and those that got it for market value. Don't tell me you didn't think, if only ht made more of that figure...

Like someone said earlier, some if not most want that perfect representation on their shelf. But when the movie studios make a sequel featuring that character in the same outfit (like jack sparrow) what then? Should HT NOT make that version of the character just to please you?? What about the hundreds that actually want it??

Example: I have 2 dx01 and 2 dx02. Rumblings of 2.0, and TDKR 1/6 and 1/4 right around the corner. I can't wait to get my hands on them. Am I going to sell the previous versions? No. Why? Because they're still amazing figures and are amazing representations of those characters.

I really hope those that are complaining that HT is TOO available are only a select few. Selling amazing product to more people is always a good thing. There are dangers to growing too big, but as long as it doesn't get out of hand, I'll continue to buy from them. However if something irritates me, I'll stop. Simple as that.

You worry about clutter? Get a bigger room. You worry about spending too much money? Get out of the hobby. Selling these figs isn't going to help you get that dream car or MTV crib. A job will do that. Love owning fine craftsmanship? Same here fella.

CollectorNC
03-16-2012, 06:06 AM
I know it's not a HT, but I was looking at SSC's CA - James 'Bucky' Barnes Premium Format Figure still in stock. I think it's 1/4 scale? It looks like a very nice statue/figure. I'm surprised it hasn't sold out yet considering pre-orders commenced on Sept. of 2010! The edition size isn't that big at 1,000. Does anyone know something about this PF figure that I should know about? Is there a problem with it, maybe? Why would it not be sold out? :dunno

It's like The Rocketeer PF EX of only 375. It's a great statue but has not sold out. I think the regular sold out as some didn't like the EX head. But even still, it is surprising some of these really nice PF's are still out, including the Bucky Cap.

CollectorNC
03-16-2012, 06:08 AM
Yeah, it's really strange that Hot Toys figures that were released last year are still on sale at Sideshow :monkey1.

As a collector, I think I'm done with Hot Toys. I do have the two Batman 89 figures on pre-order, but those might be the very last Hot Toys figures that I'll ever purchase. The last time I collected mass-produced figures was in high school, when I used to buy Transformers from Wal-Mart and Target. I have zero interest in doing something like that again, let alone, with more expensive figures.

Yeah, exactly. I'd rather buy blister packs of 7-8" figures at 15-20 USD over a 12" at 300+ that has no edition size.

kajobaldisimo
03-16-2012, 06:31 AM
hot toys not selling out at retail is a good thing.

no need to deal with scalper prices for figures you are just now ready to get.

Raymond F.
03-16-2012, 06:49 AM
If you own a figure where ht made or is making a 2.0 of, why should it devalue the original? If you were a true fan of the character and ht, you'd proudly keep it in your collection. I've seen many pics where collectors have kept every iteration of a certain character and have not complained once. Why didn't they complain? Because they have a passion for the hobby and it's their fav character.



No way no how. If I want the best version of a character and they go and do a better one why the hell would i need the inferior one? Its just going to take up space and that's money I could use to buy a brand new character I don't have.

It's the exact same reason why I don't buy every single stupid 3 3/4 inch Darth Vader or every stupid Darth Vader maquette statue bust or helmet. I don't need all that crap. I need one good Darth Vader and since I do buy the little guys one or two good little ones.

If it truly is about "love for the character" I have no love for seeing him hideously represented beside something that is a lot better overall.

a-dev
03-16-2012, 07:08 AM
True, too many upgrade their figures with new versions and remakes, upgrading is something you do with technology not collectibles IMHO it's ruining the hobby & brand.

I can't agree with that. I know I'm the guy who mentioned the Tumbler and not wanting to have my version rendered obsolete by a new version with upgrades but thats just a funny, exceptional case. Its a huge, expensive item that I can't afford the money or space to buy a new one and I wouldn't be able to sell my old one for any sort of profit because of the new one coming out and because of massive shipping costs out of Ireland.

However generally I support upgrades. Should I, as a Terminator fan, have been content with the MMS02 T-800 with the hamburger face considering what they can put out now? Absolutely no way. Iconic characters should be made to the best of that days standards and if standards then improve further - to a very noticeable degree - then the character ought to be made again. Note my emphasis there. If the improvements are only minor it becomes a bit iffy.

Singuy
03-16-2012, 07:17 AM
I don't understand why people look at these figures as an investment. The most someone will make off of these toys is $400. In the end can that pay for your mortgage? Can it feed your family for an entire year? No, that's what jobs are for. These are high end collectibles, for YOUR hot toys COLLECTION....not high end sell it off years later to make a few extra bucks.


For a lot of people, they are not thinking of it as an investment, but a justification to own a bunch of toys when they are 40 and married with children. There's a big difference between collecting sea shells or 7 inch figures at 10 dollars/piece than Hot Toys. It's okay for a grown man to waste 50 dollars a month on a hobby he enjoys, but it gets a little crazy when you have a PO of 3000 dollars worth of plastic coming your way (I have 3000 dollars worth of PO coming my way btw because I love what they have to offer...but If Hot Toys keep making my purchases worth less and less, then forget it..I can put this money towards my mortgage and just buy used Hot Toys figures later at a discount..or wait for 5.0s, the longer you wait the better figures you get..I'll get the Mark7 with a fully functioning jetpack).

At the end of the day, Hot Toys or any collectibles of this price are a big waste of money UNLESS you justify them to yourself that they are actually worth more than what you paid. If hot toys take this aspect of collecting away from their customers, then they are driving their clients away in the long run.



If Hot Toys keep making 2.0 and 3.0s, then might as well go collect computers and TVs. If Hot Toys are considered to be "art", then treat it as such. There's no such things as Mona Lisa 2.0s.

Lee in MI
03-16-2012, 07:18 AM
A-dev, I don't get your argument about the Tumbler. You could sell it at cost, not a profit, and buy the new one. Regardless how inconvenient selling it would be.

Seems like if you accept remakes, you accept remakes. If you don't, you don't.

I think Hot Toys has just seen the light. They see how much money they've left on the table and they want to capture that revenue...it's a business decision. They aren't make investment anything! Not stocks, bonds or art. They are making a commodity called toys, hence Hot TOYS...

If they make more but end up with back stock, they probably still turn a major profit. So they discount a few hundred here or there but they might sell 2, maybe 300 more than they would at whatever their previous benchmark was. That's just a part of sales.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-16-2012, 07:53 AM
I can't agree with that. I know I'm the guy who mentioned the Tumbler and not wanting to have my version rendered obsolete by a new version with upgrades but thats just a funny, exceptional case. Its a huge, expensive item that I can't afford the money or space to buy a new one and I wouldn't be able to sell my old one for any sort of profit because of the new one coming out and because of massive shipping costs out of Ireland.

However generally I support upgrades. Should I, as a Terminator fan, have been content with the MMS02 T-800 with the hamburger face considering what they can put out now? Absolutely no way. Iconic characters should be made to the best of that days standards and if standards then improve further - to a very noticeable degree - then the character ought to be made again. Note my emphasis there. If the improvements are only minor it becomes a bit iffy.

I'm not 100% against it, if there was a new T1000 in about 5-6 years that blew my one away i'd be very likely be swayed, but that's 5-6 years away, though remakes are a done a few years apart which is generally okay, currently there are new versions of characters only months after one hits, there will be those who sell off their Captain America to get the Avengers version, which defeats the purpose of buying that version in the first place when upgrading too quickly. Not to mention that over the last 1-2 years the same characters are being done multiple times in relatively close succession which leaves new characters not even getting their first figure let only third or fourth or fifth version.


If Hot Toys are considered to be "art", then treat it as such. There's no such things as Mona Lisa 2.0s.

I like this sentiment :clap

a-dev
03-16-2012, 07:54 AM
A-dev, I don't get your argument about the Tumbler. You could sell it at cost, not a profit, and buy the new one. Regardless how inconvenient selling it would be.


I'd probably end up making a loss on what I paid, despite the fact I got it at retail, because of what it cost to ship to me and what it would cost for me to ship out of Ireland. Thats my reluctance to sell. In any case, theres no need to worry about that now.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-16-2012, 08:09 AM
I'd probably end up making a loss on what I paid, despite the fact I got it at retail, because of what it cost to ship to me and what it would cost for me to ship out of Ireland. Thats my reluctance to sell. In any case, theres no need to worry about that now.

I thought the "new" tumbler was a straight re-issue, not any better than your current one? :dunno

a-dev
03-16-2012, 08:32 AM
I thought the "new" tumbler was a straight re-issue, not any better than your current one? :dunno

True, thats why I said ''theres no need to worry now'' in my last post. Also I missed your post above mine - I get you now. I thought you were speaking out against the same character ever being made more than once but that was stupid of me. I certainly agree, remakes so close to the originals and where the improvement isn't all that massive frustrate me when they come at the expense of a new character being made. I always had the same feelings RE: the Hasbro Star Wars lines. I also agree about people selling version A to buy version B. If version A (lets take the First Avenger: Captain America and version B is the Joss Whedon's Avengers version) is so unimportant to you why did you buy it in the first place. This renting of figures as you've said in the past - is not 'collecting'.

BrooklynWolf X
03-16-2012, 08:42 AM
For a lot of people, they are not thinking of it as an investment, but a justification to own a bunch of toys when they are 40 and married with children. There's a big difference between collecting sea shells or 7 inch figures at 10 dollars/piece than Hot Toys. It's okay for a grown man to waste 50 dollars a month on a hobby he enjoys, but it gets a little crazy when you have a PO of 3000 dollars worth of plastic coming your way (I have 3000 dollars worth of PO coming my way btw because I love what they have to offer...but If Hot Toys keep making my purchases worth less and less, then forget it..I can put this money towards my mortgage and just buy used Hot Toys figures later at a discount..or wait for 5.0s, the longer you wait the better figures you get..I'll get the Mark7 with a fully functioning jetpack).

At the end of the day, Hot Toys or any collectibles of this price are a big waste of money UNLESS you justify them to yourself that they are actually worth more than what you paid. If hot toys take this aspect of collecting away from their customers, then they are driving their clients away in the long run.



If Hot Toys keep making 2.0 and 3.0s, then might as well go collect computers and TVs. If Hot Toys are considered to be "art", then treat it as such. There's no such things as Mona Lisa 2.0s.


Dude, no offense, but that's really asinine. That's like saying why are porsche sold for a ridiculous amount of money. I want one but I can't afford it, but when I can afford one, they come out with a new model making the one I just bought obsolete.

These are expensive toys, no doubts about it, and these toys in the end are a luxury to have. The way HT is operating nowadays is no different than say apple. You wanna skip iPad 3 and wait for iPad 4, great, do so. I've skipped iron man mks 1-3. Why? I knew they were gonna improve when they make the eventual 4-6. Did I buy the secret projects and milk variants? No, cause I don't want to spend hundreds on repaints that never friggin appeared in the movies! See where I'm going with this?

You felt that HT is making your collection worth less...how? You buy the figs brand new, for the amount during that time. What's so hard to grasp about that? If you're a family man with debts or mortgages to pay, without any disposable income, I'd say having a hobby buying expensive TOYS should be the least of your priorities. Like you said, you'd rather hold off and buy the better product...well, then you're better off not buying anything in that case. But like you said, you like what they have to offer, as do I, but with each new release, that shouldn't make your collection worth less. It's worth is ultimately up to the owner.

And you can't compare toys to the Mona Lisa's...these are TOYS. Finely crafted toys. Manufactured of the highest degree for the adult male to buy, pose, take pics of and argue over Internet forums. You consider it art, that's great. Biggest compliment HT as a toy company can get.

BrooklynWolf X
03-16-2012, 08:52 AM
No way no how. If I want the best version of a character and they go and do a better one why the hell would i need the inferior one? Its just going to take up space and that's money I could use to buy a brand new character I don't have.

It's the exact same reason why I don't buy every single stupid 3 3/4 inch Darth Vader or every stupid Darth Vader maquette statue bust or helmet. I don't need all that crap. I need one good Darth Vader and since I do buy the little guys one or two good little ones.

If it truly is about "love for the character" I have no love for seeing him hideously represented beside something that is a lot better overall.


Well now you're accustomed to how ht make and release their products. Wait till they make the better version. You wanna know which licenses are gonna get updates or get milked? Look at the box office.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-16-2012, 09:06 AM
You wanna know which licenses are gonna get updates or get milked? Look at the box office.

Yep just look at all the versions and variants and characters from Avatar :monkey1

BrooklynWolf X
03-16-2012, 09:17 AM
Yep just look at all the versions and variants and characters from Avatar :monkey1



Look at green lantern, Watchmen, the spirit.

As much as a huge success avatar is, I can't imagine those figs flying off the shelves like an iron man or batman.

Uncanny Web-Slinger
03-16-2012, 09:22 AM
you wanna know which licenses are gonna get updates or get milked? Look at the box office.


As much as a huge success avatar is, I can't imagine those figs flying off the shelves like an iron man or batman.

Mmmmmkay... You just said the amount of figures or 'milking' is based on box office, and Avatar has the biggest box office, so by your logic not mine should have the most figures :dunno

meanstreak
03-16-2012, 09:26 AM
They aren't selling out because they are overpriced and they are making too many of them.

toystales
03-16-2012, 10:11 AM
I would say the price is the main reason why they are not selling out..

dino76m
03-16-2012, 10:40 AM
not really u can get below retail on ebay, i just scored one extra superman reeves for 50$ less than i got when i pre ordered my first one,.they have increased their production, because they know thei market is big and interest will be there for years after one item is released, its just a myth that the hot toys bubble has burst, it will only burst if another company released something better from the same lines, but i suspect enterbay and 3a gaining film rights, that might have already started . lets see where this will go

Singuy
03-16-2012, 10:59 AM
Dude, no offense, but that's really asinine. That's like saying why are porsche sold for a ridiculous amount of money. I want one but I can't afford it, but when I can afford one, they come out with a new model making the one I just bought obsolete.


What? Porsches are expensive because they are of quality (not for display, but for it's performance and pedigree)...and they are not really expensive if you compare to what you actually get.

Hot toys should be like Enzos (mostly for display, and knowing that you have one), which are limited and if there's a new model..it's completely different..making them collector items. Their value only goes up (as long as you don't drive them across country). Porsches, are like Lexus and Infinities..who the heck collects them, you are suppose to use them?

When it comes to plastics, you can't get more expensive than Hot Toys. Like what people said, it SHOULD be limited with edition sizes.

Most people have "disposable income" while they have a credit debt, mortgage, and student loans. Just because you are making your monthly payments, doesn't really mean you have disposible income UNTIL all your debts are paid off (because any disposable income should go towards your debt).

If you want to spend thousands on hot toys if you are debt free and have no kids, be my guest..but that's not the case for most people...and this is why it is necessary for Hot Toy figures to retain their value(at least their retail price) for it to be justified as a worthy "investment" (investment as in, you don't want to look at cash, so you turn the cash into something you want to look at like Hot Toys without a financial lost).

NCC-1701 no bloody ABCorD
03-16-2012, 11:02 AM
not really u can get below retail on ebay, i just scored one extra superman reeves for 50$ less than i got when i pre ordered my first one,.they have increased their production, because they know thei market is big and interest will be there for years after one item is released, its just a myth that the hot toys bubble has burst, it will only burst if another company released something better from the same lines, but i suspect enterbay and 3a gaining film rights, that might have already started . lets see where this will go

Well, Ebay is a separate entity and does not affect retail pricing. If these things retailed for an average of $100-150 as opposed to nearly $300 they would sell like hot cakes.

Lejuan
03-16-2012, 11:06 AM
Dude, no offense, but that's really asinine. That's like saying why are porsche sold for a ridiculous amount of money. I want one but I can't afford it, but when I can afford one, they come out with a new model making the one I just bought obsolete.


Yep, and by your own example the value of that Porsche halves as soon as you drive it out of the showroom. Pretty much where HT is headed with their figures, which is what Singuy was suggesting.

BrooklynWolf X
03-17-2012, 12:51 AM
What? Porsches are expensive because they are of quality (not for display, but for it's performance and pedigree)...and they are not really expensive if you compare to what you actually get.

Hot toys should be like Enzos (mostly for display, and knowing that you have one), which are limited and if there's a new model..it's completely different..making them collector items. Their value only goes up (as long as you don't drive them across country). Porsches, are like Lexus and Infinities..who the heck collects them, you are suppose to use them?

When it comes to plastics, you can't get more expensive than Hot Toys. Like what people said, it SHOULD be limited with edition sizes.

Most people have "disposable income" while they have a credit debt, mortgage, and student loans. Just because you are making your monthly payments, doesn't really mean you have disposible income UNTIL all your debts are paid off (because any disposable income should go towards your debt).

If you want to spend thousands on hot toys if you are debt free and have no kids, be my guest..but that's not the case for most people...and this is why it is necessary for Hot Toy figures to retain their value(at least their retail price) for it to be justified as a worthy "investment" (investment as in, you don't want to look at cash, so you turn the cash into something you want to look at like Hot Toys without a financial lost).

you're still linking these toys to items that SHOULD raise in value when clearly HT themselves don't. hence releasing more of their figures and RE-releasing others (tumbler).

yeah we're all aware that once cars hit the pavement, they depreciate in value. but value is always in the eye of the beholder. i don't like hondas, but someone's honda is their baby, see what i mean?

cars are meant to be used, toys are meant to be played with. thats why they have articulation. you want something that just sits there, buy statues.

these toys should be viewed as collectors items for your own personal collection, no more no less. your justification for those that don't have disposable income...look, bottom line is, if your cash is better spent elsewhere like food and bills, you REALLY can't afford to buy $200 worth of plastic. just like how HTs recent business practice is not an option for those that are tight with money....that makes absolute zero sense. did i miss something here? speaking for myself personally, if i have to pay rent, bills, and buy food to like...live, i have to be out of my mind if i chose to buy iron man MK 8-11. but, that's just me.

when superman was released, i was bummed that i couldn't buy him right then and there due to financial difficulties. i thought to myself, i am never gonna be able to get him because by the time i have money to buy him, his price is gonna double.

much to my surprise, months later, and finally having disposable income, i bought 2 a week and a half ago. a little cheaper than what he was going for. HT's new business structure...THANK YOU. not having to pay out of my arse for something i want...priceless.

Sweet Rabbit
03-17-2012, 12:57 AM
Yep, and by your own example the value of that Porsche halves as soon as you drive it out of the showroom. Pretty much where HT is headed with their figures, which is what Singuy was suggesting.

every car does that. no matter who makes it

Lejuan
03-17-2012, 01:04 AM
every car does that. no matter who makes it

um,.... yes.

hennypenny
12-28-2013, 03:07 AM
Used to be they'd all sell out months before they released, some even a few days after going up for order.

In my opinion they are doing some or all of the following:


Releasing more figures per year than before which divides their customers into choosing between figures rather than ordering both
Increasing the quantities of their figures production
Overproducing from particular licenses (and underproducing from others)
Undermining their collectability with reissues and remakes
Losing customers through poor Quality Control, delays or lack of variety
increasing prices for even 'basic' level figures

These are all the reasons why I am on the verge of giving up my collecting. I just hope I don't lose too much money when I sell them. The only people to benefit from me selling my collection would be ebay with their scandalous 10% fee and the post office. :mad:

Jericho
12-28-2013, 09:59 AM
I think you see this with a lot of things. Product starts out. it's good quality and popular, but limited. More people become aware of said product and interest grows. People realize you can make a buck off said product and interest really grows. Limits and production runs increase. Eventually the speculators realize they're too late and can't make the money the early figures made and then leave the market. Market shrinks. That means less demand for the same items. Beanie babies might be a reasonable comparison.

lerath666
12-28-2013, 02:28 PM
I think you see this with a lot of things. Product starts out. it's good quality and popular, but limited. More people become aware of said product and interest grows. People realize you can make a buck off said product and interest really grows. Limits and production runs increase. Eventually the speculators realize they're too late and can't make the money the early figures made and then leave the market. Market shrinks. That means less demand for the same items. Beanie babies might be a reasonable comparison.

Baseball cards
Comic books in the 90s
American housing and loan market.

Sevreed
12-28-2013, 03:30 PM
The thing is I don't give a rats booty how collectible a figure is. I just want the figures I think are well made and based off of things I love.
I'm happy that everyone who can afford these will have a chance to get them. Let's get rid of all of the "collectors" and scalpers who are only buying these to rip people off and soak up real fans money. These same people almost destroyed comics back in the nineties and the industry is still trying to recover.

Y4NK33 PL4N3T
12-28-2013, 03:31 PM
The thing is I don't give a rats booty how collectible a figure is. I just want the figures I think are well made and based off of things I love.
I'm happy that everyone who can afford these will have a chance to get them. Let's get rid of all of the "collectors" and scalpers who are only buying these to rip people off and soak up real fans money. These same people almost destroyed comics back in the nineties and the industry is still trying to recover.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/seinfeld.gif

subzro
12-28-2013, 03:35 PM
These are all the reasons why I am on the verge of giving up my collecting. I just hope I don't lose too much money when I sell them. The only people to benefit from me selling my collection would be ebay with their scandalous 10% fee and the post office. :mad:

Why would you sell them? If I give up collecting these I plan on keeping what i have.

Y4NK33 PL4N3T
12-28-2013, 03:40 PM
Why would you sell them? If I give up collecting these I plan on keeping what i have.

Read his other thread, obvious flipper is obvious.

Hollywood
12-28-2013, 03:51 PM
I get what I like for the sole reason that I like it. If the price being asked I am comfortable paying, then I do. I could careless if a particular figure or other "increases or decreases" in value.

If anyone thinks that a $300 figure is expensive, try collecting fine art, screen used movie props/costumes, vintage cars, or game used sports memorabilia. I can assure you that the $300 figure will look like a steal after that.

Hennypenny if you are unhappy.....it's simple.....don't buy. Hot Toys puts out a remarkable product, their prices while "high" reflect the cost of licenses and quality work. I have no complaints.

Invictus Sol
12-28-2013, 05:52 PM
These are all the reasons why I am on the verge of giving up my collecting. I just hope I don't lose too much money when I sell them. The only people to benefit from me selling my collection would be ebay with their scandalous 10% fee and the post office. :mad:
Totally don't get that attitude. Understand if say you've collected all you really want and then drop the hobby and move on to something else, but sort of throwing a fit, dropping it and then selling everything off seems odd to me. What was the appeal in the beginning if you don't want to keep what you have now? I read your "investment" thread, too, so I guess the answer's obvious, but this hobby's a strange choice if you initially thought you'd be sitting on an HT goldmine 20 years from now.



The thing is I don't give a rats booty how collectible a figure is. I just want the figures I think are well made and based off of things I love.
I'm happy that everyone who can afford these will have a chance to get them. Let's get rid of all of the "collectors" and scalpers who are only buying these to rip people off and soak up real fans money. These same people almost destroyed comics back in the nineties and the industry is still trying to recover.


http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/seinfeld.gif
Yep.

devilof76
12-28-2013, 09:41 PM
American housing and loan market.

That was actually much worse than the average scalper pondscum. Not because of the scale, but because of the political influence. It's one thing when companies take risks that crash a market. It's a whole other story when they are forced by law to crash it, and then made to take the blame.

a-dev
12-28-2013, 10:04 PM
These are all the reasons why I am on the verge of giving up my collecting. I just hope I don't lose too much money when I sell them. The only people to benefit from me selling my collection would be ebay with their scandalous 10% fee and the post office. :mad:

(Not that I am opposed to Uncanny Web Slinger, I often agree with his points but) As others have intimated one has to question what you were doing in this hobby in the first place if that's all you're worried about. Do you like movies or not? Do you want to own action figure representations of these things or not? Don't ****ing buy this stuff if you have no real care for it beyond what it may or may not earn you back in a few years time.

I've bought stuff and sold stuff that I previously thought i was interested in enough to keep. If I've sold stuff and made a loss on what I originally paid, well tough $h!t. No one's fault but my own, I'll move on. At least I'm getting some money back. **** it.

fosing
12-28-2013, 10:11 PM
flippers gonna flip.

most of this are just rambling of a flipper.lolz